Cable burn-in: truth or myth

[nms]

Hi guys.

To make this brief: Vintage Monitor 10Bs pushed by Carver HR-752. Right channel using 20 year old speaker wire of no particular note. Left channel using Monster 16 Ga speaker brand spanking new. Both lengths about the same, both gauges about the same. Right channel has clearer highs - what gives?

Things I've ruled out by experimentation:
- The receiver. When wires are swapped @ receiver the left speaker highs still sound stuffy.
- The speaker. Moved the speakers so right became left and left became right. The left speaker highs still sounded stuffy. This seems to rule out the tweeters being at fault.

That leaves me with the speaker wire. So my question is, is speaker wire "burn-in" real, and the monster cable will sound better after some hours are put on it?

Thanks,
nms

[Face]

The test is flawed since they're two different cables.

[nms]

The test is flawed since they're two different cables.

Face, that's the point. :-) Besides, I'm not purposefully running a test, I just noticed one speaker sounded better and went from there.

One cable is brand new, and is supposedly a high end speaker cable. The other one is an old, used off-brand cable (better than lamp cord wire, but not specifically an audio cable, either).

The old one, despite its lower quality, sounds better in the highs than the monster cable. I have a hard time believing that this old cable is better than the monster. The only thing I can think of is that the old cable has been used to drive speakers for a while, while the monster cable is brand new, so it needs to be "burnt it".

The question is 1) Is burn-in real? 2) If so, how long does it take to burn in a cable? 3) If not, why the hell does the monster sound worse?

Thanks

[beardog03]

Face has a point...

one cable is new , one old...


but yes, I do believe in cable burn in
It takes a while for any cable to "settle" in


Others would disagree



























they`re wrong

:p

[Face]

One cable is brand new, and is supposedly a high end speaker cable. The other one is an old, used off-brand cable (better than lamp cord wire, but not specifically an audio cable, either).
<SNIP>
3) If not, why the hell does the monster sound worse?That's the other flaw, Monster is not high end. ;) :D

All Monster cares about is a Monster profit.

[nms]

That's the other flaw, Monster is not high end. ;) :D

All Monster cares about is a Monster profit.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I bought Monster because I wanted 16 Ga, and BB only had monster in that size.

Another question: does a non-burned in cable normally affect the highs, like I am hearing, or some other part of the frequency spectrum?

[treitz3]

Why don't you get two speaker wires of the same type and length, install them and get what you want to achieve? That being equal sound out of both speakers.

To answer your other question, yes for some and myth for others. Does it really matter if you don't or do hear it? If a bear shits in the woods, does it make a noise? Who cares? That's my point.

Get new [same] speaker wire and tell us after about 50 hours whether or not you hear any sonic change and then YOU will know.

[nms]

Get new [same] speaker wire and tell us after about 50 hours whether or not you hear any sonic change and then YOU will know.

I'm a cheap sunuva bitch, that's why ;-). 20' feet of monster was all that I was willing to pay for, and initially I thought it would be enough to wire both speakers. HOWEVER, when I got back and actually measured it out, I would need closer to 30'. I had an old piece of serviceable wire from the speakers' previous installation, and decided to use that instead of going to the trouble to return the 20' spool and buy a 30' one. I'm glad I did, as I never would have heard the difference between "new" and "burnt-in" wire otherwise. It's been educational.

I posted this because I wanted to make sure the sonic difference in the top end I was hearing was in fact the new wire, and not something wrong with the speakers or receiver. Then, when a few members responded that wire burn-in was a real phenomenon, I wanted to know how long it takes to properly burn-in a wire. You seem to have answered this with your "50 hours" comment. For that, I thank you.

Now, since my questions seem to be annoying to you and Face for some reason, I'll stop posting and enjoy my new stereo, which is all I wanted in the first place. I unsarcastically thank you all for your help, even if it did feel like I was pulling teeth :-)

[shack]

Rather than rehash all over again....here is a thread regarding this exact topic from a couple of years ago. All the ususal suspects chimed in. I said enough then so I won't repeat anything other than...based my experience cable burn in exists.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27534

[beardog03]

you may also be experiencing this because the older cable may have corrosion on the ends or somewhere in between..

Stick around and enjoy the forum....your not annoying anybody...and f em if ya are..!

but as shack said, do a search and you will find many threads / opinions on this subject

[Ricardo]

Are you saying that you can hear a difference in sound, and that you are absolutely positive that the culprit is the speaker wires?????

Do you want a million dollars???:eek::D:D

[SolidSqual]

Cables are a crock . . . I just give the Signal Cable Guy my money for fun because I have tons of it. Not to mention, the weight and gauge of these Magic Power Cords would make great nunchucks in case those ninjas come back and try to take my speakers again. :)

[nms]

Are you saying that you can hear a difference in sound, and that you are absolutely positive that the culprit is the speaker wires?????

I'm saying that I am hearing a noticeable difference in tweeter behavior/sonic output between the L and R speakers, with the L one sounding "stuffier" and worse.

All of the experiments I have done (listed in my first post) seem to point to the cable being the culprit. I do not think this is mental, because I expected to find the exact opposite results. Since I believe that the Monster cable is of higher quality, that leaves me with burn-in as the likely culprit for the poorer sound quality.

So no, I am not absolutely positive that what I am hearing is cable burn-in, but I believe that it is the most likely reason for a PALPABLE sonic difference.

I am no audiophile, but I have good ears and I trust them (can still hear 19 KHz TV buzz at ~20 yrs old).

The best test now is to wait several weeks of intensive playback and then perform my left channel / right channel test again with a selection I am very familiar with. If the difference has disappeared, I will conclude it is cable burn-in and that it does exist. If the difference is still noticeable, I will perform the tests listed in my first post again, and then try to fix whatever is broken.

And yes, I would love a million dollars. Who's giving it out? :D

BEARDOG:

I am having trouble picturing how corrosion would make the older cable sound better. Thoughts?

[tcrossma]

Maybe i'm missing something here, but you listed in your tests that you:

1) swapped cables at the receiver and,
2) swapped speakers

If you swapped cables at the receiver and the problem remained in the left channel doesn't that rule out both the speaker and the cable, and point directly to the receiver?

I mean, if the LEFT channel on the receiver was using the new Monster cable and the RIGHT channel was using the old cable and you switched at the receiver then the LEFT channel would then be using the old cable and the RIGHT would be using the Monster cable, with each hooked up to their original speaker. If the cable or the speaker were the culprit, wouldn't the problem have jumped from the left channel to the right channel when you made the swap?

[Ricardo]

Just a lame attempt to stir the pot on cables discussions; I don't doubt you hear differences.

On the million dollars:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58314&highlight=million

[wallstreet]

I don't understand what the problem is. You said your cheap and the cheap cable sounds better than the Monster cable. So do you want us to talk you out of taking the Monster cable back? I'd add the old cable to the other speaker and move on.

[nms]

tcrossma:

It's confusing to explain, I'm trying to think of a good way of explaining what I did. When I swapped cables at the receiver, the L channel output went to the speaker on the right, and vice versa. The cables stayed hooked to the same speakers, and the problem stayed on the L speaker (not the L channel) with the Monster cable. In the second test, the receiver outputs were returned to normal and the speakers were physically swapped, but the cables stayed in the same place. In this test, the new L speaker had the same problem as the old L speaker. The speakers were put back as before and the problem persisted on the left. Ergo, the Monster cable, which always drove the speaker on the left, is the problem. I hope this explains it better.

Ricardo:

Forgive me for not taking your comments as a pot-stirring attempt. Tone is difficult to read through text.

wallstreet:

I'd add the old cable to the other speaker and move on.

The problem with this suggestion is simple: I'm out of old cable :o:rolleyes:

[PolkThug]

In your case, your right ear hears better than your left.

[beardog03]

BEARDOG:

I am having trouble picturing how corrosion would make the older cable sound better. Thoughts?

I meant that the OLDER cables would have possible corrosion, hence the unclean (muddy)sound


I could be wrong...

It happened once before....;)

[Keiko]

nms...May I suggest you return the monster cable? Get yourself some good quality speaker cable here:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

.57 for the Belden 5000. That works out to only 17.10 for the quantity you need + shipping. Install it, let it burn in for at least 50 hours. Come back and thank us after. ;)

Welcome to CP.

[treitz3]

I'm a cheap sunuva bitch, that's why.
OK, I can deal with that.
Now, since my questions seem to be annoying to you and Face for some reason, I'll stop posting and enjoy my new stereo, which is all I wanted in the first place. I unsarcastically thank you all for your help, even if it did feel like I was pulling teeth :-)
This, I can not. I answered your question and offered a solution, Face just gave you the truth.

:confused: :(

[george daniel]

How long,and at what temperature should I leave my cables in the oven :D

[Keiko]

How long,and at what temperature should I leave my cables in the oven :D
50 hours @ at least 200 watts. :p

[dave shepard]

Hi guys.

Right channel has clearer highs - what gives?

Things I've ruled out by experimentation:
- The receiver. When wires are swapped @ receiver the left speaker highs still sound stuffy.
- The speaker. Moved the speakers so right became left and left became right. The left speaker highs still sounded stuffy. This seems to rule out the tweeters being at fault.

That leaves me with the speaker wire. So my question is, is speaker wire "burn-in" real, and the monster cable will sound better after some hours are put on it?

Thanks,
nms

I would lean towards the room giving you some problems, more reflective on one side and more absorbing on the other. As I read it it is always the left no matter what you do, correct?

[nms]

nms...May I suggest you return the monster cable? Get yourself some good quality speaker cable here:


Will BB take back cable that's been cut to length?? I assumed not initially.

I would lean towards the room giving you some problems, more reflective on one side and more absorbing on the other. As I read it it is always the left no matter what you do, correct?
Possible. I will do another experiment later today when I won't wake the neighbors. However, The high end difference is noticeable from a listening position, as well as right up against the speaker where environmental variables do not have much influence.

Thanks

[Keiko]

Will BB take back cable that's been cut to length?? I assumed not initially.

Well, as you said, this is/has been a learning experience for you. I'd eat the cost of the monster cable personally then, based on my experience of course. We're talking maybe a 25.00 max investment here for some very good 12AWG speaker cable vs some 20 year old 16AWG mixxed w/some new, low end 16AWG MC. It's up to you but for me that's a relatively small investment that will likely improve the sound quality. Good luck.

[nms]

Well I owe you guys an apology for the wild goose chase: it's the tweeter in the left speaker. I feel pretty stupid now.

[Ricardo]

If it's a Peerless tweeter, I can send you one.....not new, but it works. Has some "magic dust" on it, but it doesn't seem to affect the sound.PM me your addy and I will ship it sometime next week.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t123/garcimol/IMG_3542.jpg

[Keiko]

Things I've ruled out by experimentation:
- The receiver. When wires are swapped @ receiver the left speaker highs still sound stuffy.
- The speaker. Moved the speakers so right became left and left became right. The left speaker highs still sounded stuffy. This seems to rule out the tweeters being at fault.
:confused:

[nms]

:confused:

Yeah I know. I can't explain it either. :o Sorry again.

[Lasareath]

Truth

[Neskahi]

Hocus Pocus

[george daniel]

If you get the tweeter from Ricardo,make sure that it has been properly "licked",before installation.:)

[hypertone]

Would you mind scraping off that white buildup and sending it to me? ;)

[madmax]

Depending on your room you can get a situation where moving your head a few inches either way can cause one speaker to seem louder than the other randomly. Just something to pay attention to.

[nms]

Depending on your room you can get a situation where moving your head a few inches either way can cause one speaker to seem louder than the other randomly. Just something to pay attention to.

Thanks, I'm pretty careful about listener orientation - otherwise Carver's "Sonic Holography" doesn't work! ;) (Not that it works incredibly well in my small room anyway...)

After being driven hard the tweeter seems noticeably more "stuffy" and "crackly", so I'm pretty sure it's the tweeter at this point.

But yeah, my speaker setup is far from ideal: they're too close together, and on the outside of each speaker is a cubby hole that further attenuates the already fantastic bass - yikes! In front and to the outside of each is a short wall, so I get some weird reflections from there. I've toed the speakers in to try to get rid of some of that... Oh, and they're too close to the wall behind them. Even so, they sound fantastic - I definitely have more than enough power to ruin my eardrums and shake the building, if I ever feel so inclined, and they'll continue to sound good as the walls crumble around them!

[reeltrouble1]

nms,

well we all have to deal with what we have for rooms. Glad to see you are joining the fray. Welcome.

RT1

[Ricardo]

Would you mind scraping off that white buildup and sending it to me? ;)

No, I would not scrap it, but if you NEED it I can send it to you.

[vonnie123]

Here's an interesting concept.


http://www.hagtech.com/frybaby.html

[shack]

Here's an interesting concept.


http://www.hagtech.com/frybaby.html

Nothing new...they've been around for awhile. Here is the "Cable Cooker":

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0404/audioharma.htm

[wingnut4772]

I have a very difficult time believing cable burn in. Electronics.....um..maybe. Speakers for sure but cables??? I can't buy into it.

[shack]

We just made it all up...

[Face]

We just made it all up...
You're mean. :D

I'm still on the fence. I'm not denying it, but I haven't noticed it yet either.

[Ferres]

The possibility of a placebo effect is a bit high on this one in my opinion.:confused:

[beardog03]

I have a very difficult time believing cable burn in. Electronics.....um..maybe. Speakers for sure but cables??? I can't buy into it.



Wha...wha..wwhat ...??!!


Et Tu Wing ?



spaeker, and electronics, but not cables ?



oh, yes....cables too......


YMMV of course

[reeltrouble1]

All of the MIT cables I have purchased have sounded better after they were used for a while. Just little things with the bass and treble on certain tracks. Anyway I have heard enough to believe the burn-in for cables is not a myth by any means.

RT1

[wout]

What happens in the cables is that the molecules align themselves with the flow of the electrons that pass through. So over time the more those molecules align with the flow the better the flow. If you were to reverse your cables after playing them for a while the flow would be hampered by these molecules that are aligned the wrong way. So keep your cables aligned properly and yes of course you have to burn in your cables, just like your speakers and your equipment as well. Also, never ever let your system sit idle for long periods of time because you will have to burn it in all over again. Just like you can't let a car sit in the garage over the whole winter and expect it to just start up. If you just bought that there is a bridge for sale, then again you are entitled to believe whatever you want. This is free country (was).

[ben62670]

To the extent of having to burn in cables depends a lot on cable design, and components used. If you have a real high res system you will notice burn in more prevalent. Of the cables that I have built the stranded cables take longer to burn in than the solid ones. I use solid silver, or silver plated cooper with Teflon for all cables. My braided solid conductor IC's don't take long to see an improvement. The stranded Star Quad types take a long time to burn in.

[WilliamM2]

Carry on.

[jwhitakr]

... If you just bought that there is a bridge for sale, then again you are entitled to believe whatever you want. This is free country (was).

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. You do realise that the audio signal is AC right? The signal flows BOTH directions. They constantly change direction on their own.

While wout's sentence structure wasn't the best, at the end of his paragraph he did point out that he had a bridge for sale. I believe he was using that to point out his sarcasm.

:rolleyes:

[WilliamM2]

While wout's sentence structure wasn't the best, at the end of his paragraph he did point out that he had a bridge for sale. I believe he was using that to point out his sarcasm.

:rolleyes:

You're right, I had to read that sentence a couple of times to make sense of it. Sorry.

[reeltrouble1]

who care's?????

Ed Zachery.

RT1

[F1nut]

My cables can beat up your cables and that's a fact, Jack. :D

[danger boy]

http://dl7.glitter-graphics.net/pub/7/7457rnc92gy18o.gif (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)

[ben62670]

http://dl7.glitter-graphics.net/pub/7/7457rnc92gy18o.gif (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)

What are you trying to say:D
Love it!

[hearingimpared]

Cable burn-in, just like anything that eletrons flow through to reproduce sound need to burn-in. Everything from the dielectric to solder needs to get with the flow.

If you don't believe it, bully for you, but if you have any kind of high resolution gear, you will hear a big change once the cables have burned in.

[janmike]

It really does depend on the cables and gear. I have heard subtle differences on cables from Signal and quite noticeable differences on MIT.

[Sevenpointone]

Myth- in 50 hours of 200 watt amp usage, your amp changes more than any quality speaker wire.