My Krell KAV 250a amp has arrived!!!

[pearsall001]

Thanks to Venomclan (Jeremy) for giving me a heads up on his sale of this beast. I was looking for a while for a 2 channel amp & pretty much had it narrowed down. Then Jeremy throws me a curve ball with his Krell for sale. Now I know there are a lot of guys with a love/hate kind of thing when it comes to Krell amps. Non the less, my interest was aroused.

So, I do a google search on the Krell KAV 250a & find nothing but great reviews on its sound quality, performance (glorious power as Robert Harley puts it) & exceptional build quality. The two reviews that really peeked my interest in the amp were the one review by Robert Harley in a A/V Guide article & the one in Home Theater Magazine. They both couldn't say enough great things about the KAV 250a. Now I have to find out for myself what all the hoopla is about.

I know you can only put so much stock into reviews & the only true way to know how well a piece of gear performs is to give it a whirl in your own system. So I took the plunge & told Jeremy we have a deal. Truth be told, I always wanted to give a listen to a Krell. Now I'm getting ready to hook it up & take it for a test drive. A review on my findings will follow shortly.

I can't wait to hear my AAD 2001 monitors with this baby driving them.

As a side note, Jeremy is a great guy to deal with. He responded quickly to all PM's & his shipping was as promised. Great packaging, amp looks fantastic!! He also thru in a pair of Audioquest Type 4 speakers for me to do a head to head with my Mapleshade Golden Helix cables. A very nice gesture on his part!! Put him on your good guy Polkie list.

[halo]

Thanks to Venomclan (Jeremy) for giving me a heads up on his sale of this beast. I was looking for a while for a 2 channel amp & pretty much had it narrowed down. Then Jeremy throws me a curve ball with his Krell for sale. Now I know there are a lot of guys with a love/hate kind of thing when it comes to Krell amps. Non the less, my interest was aroused.

So, I do a google search on the Krell KAV 250a & find nothing but great reviews on its sound quality, performance (glorious power as Robert Harley puts it) & exceptional build quality. The two reviews that really peeked my interest in the amp were the one review by Robert Harley in a A/V Guide article & the one in Home Theater Magazine. They both couldn't say enough great things about the KAV 250a. Now I have to find out for myself what all the hoopla is about.

I know you can only put so much stock into reviews & the only true way to know how well a piece of gear performs is to give it a whirl in your own system. So I took the plunge & told Jeremy we have a deal. Truth be told, I always wanted to give a listen to a Krell. Now I'm getting ready to hook it up & take it for a test drive. A review on my findings will follow shortly.

I can't wait to hear my AAD 2001 monitors with this baby driving them.

As a side note, Jeremy is a great guy to deal with. He responded quickly to all PM's & his shipping was as promised. Great packaging, amp looks fantastic!! He also thru in a pair of Audioquest Type 4 speakers for me to do a head to head with my Mapleshade Golden Helix cables. A very nice gesture on his part!! Put him on your good guy Polkie list.
:cool: let shack know about the transaction :)

[Ricardo]

:cool: let shack know about the transaction :)

Where have you been Victor???? Do you see that "13" under your name in every post? :)

[halo]

Where have you been Victor???? Do you see that "13" under your name in every post? :)ya, and?

[Ricardo]

And, Shack is taking a break. Feedback is done directly by buyers/sellers

[hearingimpared]

Great Phil. I can't wait to hear it too. I bet that it will really round out your rig. That bad boy should drive those AADs with ease and plenty of headroom. I'll also bet that they don't bottom out like all the others have.

Ding, ding, Ric and Vic round 1 over!!!:D

[madmax]

I hope it sounds good. Let us know.
madmax

[venomclan]

Glad to hear the amp arrived in one piece, thank you for the nice words Phil. We are dying for a review. :)
Venom

P.S. I guess I should remove it from my gear list, I am going to miss it.

[rskarvan]

Krell KAV250A + Thiel 3.6 = Best Sound I've Heard

[F1nut]

Just so everyone else here knows, Ron doesn't have much, if any, high frequency hearing left. ;)

[wingnut4772]

Just so everyone else here knows, Ron doesn't have much, if any, high frequency hearing left. ;)

HA!!!:D:D That explains it!

[rskarvan]

Ouch!!!

[madmax]

Just so everyone else here knows, Ron doesn't have much, if any, high frequency hearing left. ;)

So you are saying the Krell and his ears may have a synergistic relationship. :D
madmax

[rskarvan]

The Thiels provide the natural clarity of a first-order cross-over network... especially in the high frequency range.

The Krell provides the bass-slam that the Thiels need for a good solid bottom end.

The synergy that madmax suggests is really between Krell and Thiel. Anyone with half a brain can appreciate it.

[Ricardo]

I've heard the rumours that Krell and Thiel are bright. Still a rumour for Krell because I have not heard that specific amp, but I can say that Thiels are not bright, at least not if paired with decent electronics.

By the way, when I was at Thiel I auditioned the new 3.7's powered by two monster Krell evolution monoblocks. They did not sound bright to me (And, I would assume that if it was a bad combination, they would not use them for demos).

[F1nut]

I've heard the rumours that Krell and Thiel are bright.

That has been my personal experience and I don't like B&W's either. To each their own.

[TroyD]

I've had Thiels and I've had Krell....although not together, but it wouldn't be my dream combo.

I like Krell mated to a warmer speaker.

Big B&W's rock, you old fart.

BDT

[F1nut]

Yeah, that me.....just an old fart. :D

[TroyD]

Wow, people can actually disagree and laugh about it?

Novel concept.

BDT

[rskarvan]

Krell is a very detailed amp. Very fast transient response motorola op-amps.
Thiel is an incredibly detailed speaker.

Ya gotta have the intricate signal details in the: source, the preamp, the amp, and the speakers if the listener is going to hear it. Of course, this assumes a listener without any natural, age-related, high frequecny roll-offs in their perception.

[F1nut]

Novel indeed. Of course, it helps when you have a normal, well adjusted attitude.

[cfrizz]

No they DON'T! They give me headaches!:p;):D

Big B&W's rock...

BDT

[TroyD]

No they DON'T! They give me headaches!:p;):D


Yeah, well you've got a small pec.......what a minute, that joke REALLY doesn't apply. :D



I have ALWAYS dug the B&W 800 series. It would really be a tossup, for me, between those and the Quads...but the Quads are more suited to my current setup.

BDT

[TroyD]

No they DON'T! They give me headaches!:p;):D


Yeah, well you've got a small pec.......what a minute, that joke REALLY doesn't apply in this case. :D


I have ALWAYS dug the B&W 800 series. It would really be a tossup, for me, between those and the Quads...but the Quads are more suited to my current setup.

BDT

[cfrizz]

:eek: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA:D:D :D

Oh God my stomach hurts from laughing!!!! PRICELESS!:D

Oh yeah... you run like a girl! So there!:p


Yeah, well you've got a small pec.......what a minute, that joke REALLY doesn't apply in this case. :D


I have ALWAYS dug the B&W 800 series. It would really be a tossup, for me, between those and the Quads...but the Quads are more suited to my current setup.

BDT

[Yashu]

B/W.... Warm? Forget the joke made at someone else's expense for a second, kids, the B/W comment was gold.

[F1nut]

Hey Phil, sorry for the derail. Congrats on the new amp and I look forward to your impressions.





Other than that, no one said B&W was a warm speaker. This is what they said, "I like Krell mated to a warmer speaker." Big difference.


I also understand the small pecker issue is limited to those with fast cars and fast music as a lifestyle.

[madmax]

I also understand the small pecker issue is limited to those with fast cars and fast music as a lifestyle.

And big amps and big speakers... :D
madmax

[treitz3]

Damn, max. If that's the case a lot of us have "issues". :eek:

**clears throat**.....Not here of course....

[engtaz]

Where are the pics???????????????????????????????
Congrats
engtaz

[MillerLiteScott]

That has been my personal experience and I don't like B&W's either. To each their own.

B&W don't even make decent speaker stands for other speakers.:rolleyes::D

[pearsall001]

Glad to hear the amp arrived in one piece, thank you for the nice words Phil. We are dying for a review. :)
Venom

P.S. I guess I should remove it from my gear list, I am going to miss it.


This friggin thing is more than I expected. The ease in which it conveys the music is down right spooky. And talk about bass, holy shit Batman!!! After more listening I'll add more but for now I am very, very impressed to say the least.

When I first hooked it up, I had a terible ground loop hum!!! WTF!!! After trial & error & a few phone calls I found the culprit. Thanks to Jos (a pure genius) we nailed the problem...my TADAC was the problem. I threw a cheater plug on it & now everything is dead silence. blacker than black background. What a difference in everything.

How'd we get on the subject of B&W speakers??? Just start a new thred.

[rskarvan]

Pearsall001, are you running in balanced mode? If not, have you put in the little copper "clips"... they are absolutely needed to run in single-ended configuration (properly).

Balanced mode (XLR) drops the black background an additional -6db.

[hearingimpared]

Balanced mode (XLR) drops the black background an additional -6db.

Ron is that in short runs also?

[pearsall001]

Pearsall001, are you running in balanced mode? If not, have you put in the little copper "clips"... they are absolutely needed to run in single-ended configuration (properly).

Balanced mode (XLR) drops the black background an additional -6db.

I'm running single ended not balanced. The amp didn't come with the pins for the XLR inputs, I'll give Krell a call & see if I can get a pair. Krell does recommend to use the pins when running single ended mode.

Edit to my previous post. That was Joe not Jos who is the genius.

Joe, I'm suprised you didn't nail me on that one LOL!!!! :D

[ben62670]

OK Phil. Have you done a speaker wire comparo yet?

[pearsall001]

OK Phil. Have you done a speaker wire comparo yet?

I've done a few but I keep going back to the Mapleshade Golden Helix speaker cables. Now with the new Krell in line I'll try 'em all again. The ones I presently have are, Signal Cable (ultra), River Cable (Starflex) very goog by the way. Canara 4-11S, My own clone of Anti-cables, & a hodge podge of a few others. I just wind up with the Mapleshades back in my system.

Venomclan sent me a pair of Audioquest Type 4 cables to do a comparison. I'll try to get that done shortly. The only problem I see with them is the size of their spades, they might just be a bit small for my binding posts. The AAD 2001 monitors have HUGE binding posts. I'll find out shortly.

[rskarvan]

Ron is that in short runs also?

I believe so.

[ben62670]

I've done a few but I keep going back to the Mapleshade Golden Helix speaker cables. Now with the new Krell in line I'll try 'em all again. The ones I presently have are, Signal Cable (ultra), River Cable (Starflex) very goog by the way. Canara 4-11S, My own clone of Anti-cables, & a hodge podge of a few others. I just wind up with the Mapleshades back in my system.

Venomclan sent me a pair of Audioquest Type 4 cables to do a comparison. I'll try to get that done shortly. The only problem I see with them is the size of their spades, they might just be a bit small for my binding posts. The AAD 2001 monitors have HUGE binding posts. I'll find out shortly.

Cool.
I am really interested in what you think of the AQ's compared to the mapleshades, and the Canare 411's
Thanks
Ben

[engtaz]

You cable geeks are funny. LOL Just having fun with you guys.

engtaz

[ben62670]

You cable geeks are funny. LOL Just having fun with you guys.

engtaz

Funny HaHa, or just Funny:confused::p:D

[rskarvan]

When I first got my KAV 250A, I ran it in single-ended mode and was reasonably impressed. Then, I got the KAV250P and went balanced and was blown away by how much improvement (and volume boost) was attained.

Now, I wouldn'te even consider running single-ended if I didn't have abolutely have to.

- Ron

[venomclan]

This friggin thing is more than I expected. The ease in which it conveys the music is down right spooky. And talk about bass, holy shit Batman!!! After more listening I'll add more but for now I am very, very impressed to say the least.

When I first hooked it up, I had a terible ground loop hum!!! WTF!!! After trial & error & a few phone calls I found the culprit. Thanks to Jos (a pure genius) we nailed the problem...my TADAC was the problem. I threw a cheater plug on it & now everything is dead silence. blacker than black background. What a difference in everything.

How'd we get on the subject of B&W speakers??? Just start a new thred.

That pretty much sums up that amp. Blacker than black background. Spooky silence, speed and bass that you can feel in your chest. Like I said, I dare you to try to clip that thing :eek: Glad you are enjoying it. Venom

[pearsall001]

When I first got my KAV 250A, I ran it in single-ended mode and was reasonably impressed. Then, I got the KAV250P and went balanced and was blown away by how much improvement (and volume boost) was attained.

Now, I wouldn'te even consider running single-ended if I didn't have abolutely have to.

- Ron

Hey Ron,

What pre did you have before the 250p? Was the improvement as great as your saying. I'm getting half tempted to give one a try & do a head to head with my CJ PV14LS2 pre. As it stands now, I'm very pleased with the CJ. But stranger things have happened!!

Phil

[rskarvan]

I was running single-ended from my Denon 3801 receiver. The Denon provided a clean, clear signal - no problem there. But, the electronics of the 250p and the 250a are simply meant to be tied together via XLR (both systems are entirely balanced circuits).

The best way to describe the experience is that it "felt like my KAV-250A amp doubled in power and control".

[halo]

I dare you to try to clip that thingBring it to my house ;):D

[hearingimpared]

Edit to my previous post. That was Joe not Jos who is the genius.

Joe, I'm suprised you didn't nail me on that one LOL!!!! :D

Why should I ruin such a great compliment, however, I am no genius when it comes to this stuff. I just applied a little common sense and troubleshooting skills learned in tech school.

[venomclan]

Bring it to my house ;):D

Would love to see what torture we could throw at it. But now it is Phil's, and I am Krell-less :(

I borrowed a pair of Carver Silver 9T's at 575watts and stable to 0 ohms. I felt the Krell had more speed and power.

The Krell is rated at 2000 watts at 8ohm bridged mono. But I cannot ever see using that mode since a standard 15 amp circuit only has 1800 watts. I would hate to hear the speakers that need that much juice. Let's throw it on a Bose and see if they combust, may even sound good :)
Venom

[SCompRacer]

Would love to see what torture we could throw at it.

Victor is one of them strange people that own and likes ESL speakers. :D Electrostatic panels present a capacitive load to an amp, and he likes to see them go unstable, or have the protection circuitry kick in.:eek: I have read that folks use the Krell 250A with Quad's and they performed well.

Sorry you had to give up your Krell.

[TroyD]

I wouldn't recommend that with a pair of Quad ESL-57's unless you have a fire extinguisher handy.

BDT

[engtaz]

Funny HaHa, or just Funny:confused::p:D

Funny HaHa

engtaz

[mantis]

Where are the pics???????????????????????????????
Congrats
engtaz

Ditto,
nice going man. Krell has always been my personal favorite.

[venomclan]

Victor is one of them strange people that own and likes ESL speakers. :D Electrostatic panels present a capacitive load to an amp, and he likes to see them go unstable, or have the protection circuitry kick in.:eek: I have read that folks use the Krell 250A with Quad's and they performed well.

Sorry you had to give up your Krell.

Man, there are just some sicko's out there...lol j/k. I heard a different Krell amp with some Sonus Faber Cremonas and it was Incredible. I later heard a more powerful Krell with some Martin Logans and it was Shrill city. I loved the Krell but it did not get along with the Gallos. So I went on a search for a better match and ended with this: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/butler/2250.html

They use this amp on some Gallos in the review. It is more musical with the Gallos than the Krell. But gives up a bit in bottom end and blackness.

Oh well, that is how the audio cookie crumbles...but at least the amp is getting new life at Phil's place. :)
Venon

[pearsall001]

Well I did it!!! I couldn't control myself this time. I had to get the matching Krell KAV 250p preamp from venomclan to go with the Krell KAV 250a amp I just picked up from him. I'm helping venom with his audio house cleaning!! LOL!!

Now I'll be able to do a head to head with my CJ preamp to see which one I like the best. When the shoot out's over, one of them will have to go. Which one will it be???? Or maybe I'll keep both to play with. Stay tuned.

Thanks venom, that Krell is rocking my world!!! :D

Phil

[hearingimpared]

Man I can't wait to hear this!

[rskarvan]

The Krell KAV250p is a sequence of resistors loading the signal at low volumes. When you exceed unity gain, the 250p has matching circuitry for the gain.

Its a no brainer - I think. Sell the CJ.

[cfrizz]

Wow, congrats Phil! I'm glad you're having fun.

[pearsall001]

The Krell KAV250p is a sequence of resistors loading the signal at low volumes. When you exceed unity gain, the 250p has matching circuitry for the gain.

Its a no brainer - I think. Sell the CJ.

Let's not jump the gun here. The CJ is no slouch!!! It's gonna be a fun comparison.

Maybe we need to start a pool!!!

[hearingimpared]

Let's not jump the gun here. The CJ is no slouch!!! It's gonna be a fun comparison.

Maybe we need to start a pool!!!

I wouldn't go there Bro! The CJ is a very, very fine preamp but remember the Krells were made for each other.

[venomclan]

Fight! Fight! Fight!:D

[hearingimpared]

LOL!!! Not between me and Phil. The only thing we go at it about like Miller Lite commercial is: Digital vs. Analog!

[SCompRacer]

Let's not jump the gun here. The CJ is no slouch!!! It's gonna be a fun comparison.



You mean you are actually going to make a decision based on your listening experience? Good for you. High marks.

[SCompRacer]

LOL!!! Not between me and Phil. The only thing we go at it about like Miller Lite commercial is: Digital vs. Analog!

LOL Those were funny threads to read.

[pearsall001]

You mean you are actually going to make a decision based on your listening experience? Good for you. High marks.

In my book, that's the only way to do it. What my ears hear provides all the proof I need. Reviews & here say are great but it always comes down to how well you like the sound.

Both the CJ & Krell have their strong points. Now it's up to listening to both for a while to hear which one tickles my fancy. Time will tell.

[SCompRacer]

In my book, that's the only way to do it. What my ears hear provides all the proof I need. Reviews & here say are great but it always comes down to how well you like the sound.



I couldn't agree more. I'll be looking forward to what you decide stays in the rack.

[rskarvan]

Let's not jump the gun here. The CJ is no slouch!!! It's gonna be a fun comparison.

Maybe we need to start a pool!!!

I'm betting on the Krell. Even though the KAV250P is the bottom-end of the krell pre-amps.... it is dead silent. Its only down-fall is that the electronic volume control is a little notchy as the circuitry switches across the resistor ladder. I have never heard ANY sonic influence other than volume coming from the Krell 250P.

[hearingimpared]

I can't wait to hear these things man. Oh I said that already.

[pearsall001]

I think I'm gonna have to make a large pot of coffee for this CJ / Krell shoot out!! Gonna be fun Joe!! :D

[hearingimpared]

Give me a date and I'll be there!

[pearsall001]

Give me a date and I'll be there!

The Krell pre should be here on Thurs. I'll test it out for a bit, then we'll set up a date. Maybe we can it make Stephen's place (for your clamp) the same day so Jesse can make it.

[hearingimpared]

Roger that!!!

[treitz3]

Letting your ears decide...that's THE way to go. ;)

Krell makes some really nice gear, but the one thing that earks me with the amps I have heard / auditioned so far is that the sound is almost too clean and un-life like. Clinical if you will. What I would like to know is....are your observations on this particular amp the same? I'm hoping that it is not. I haven't ever heard a Krell in a home situation besides a pre that was sweet sounding, but I'm interested to know about your observations in a real life scenario at home and not in a showroom.

[hearingimpared]

The original thought was to put the Krell amp in to round out an overly warm rig.

[rskarvan]

Letting your ears decide...that's THE way to go. ;)

Krell makes some really nice gear, but the one thing that earks me with the amps I have heard / auditioned so far is that the sound is almost too clean and un-life like. Clinical if you will. What I would like to know is....are your observations on this particular amp the same? I'm hoping that it is not. I haven't ever heard a Krell in a home situation besides a pre that was sweet sounding, but I'm interested to know about your observations in a real life scenario at home and not in a showroom.

Clean and clinical is a very accurate analysis/observation of Krell equipment.

[treitz3]

The original thought was to put the Krell amp in to round out an overly warm rig.
Now that makes perfect sense. Rock on! ;)

[pearsall001]

Letting your ears decide...that's THE way to go. ;)

Krell makes some really nice gear, but the one thing that earks me with the amps I have heard / auditioned so far is that the sound is almost too clean and un-life like. Clinical if you will. What I would like to know is....are your observations on this particular amp the same? I'm hoping that it is not. I haven't ever heard a Krell in a home situation besides a pre that was sweet sounding, but I'm interested to know about your observations in a real life scenario at home and not in a showroom.

So far my listening hasn't been that extensive, but I really like what I'm hearing so far. It kind of reminds me of a lion in wait for an antelope to cross it's path. It pounces with tons of power, doesn't play around & gets the job done in a hurry. Pretty much like music passages, just waiting to be pounced on, where you & need a beast to bring them to submission. With a loud roar it's over & then they're as loveable as can be.

That's the Krell, crazy power, finess & delicate to my ears. Music is reproduced with authority & respect. I'm liking it !!!

[pearsall001]

If you've been following this thread, you know that I just picked up the Krell KAV 250a amp from venomclan. Then my curiousity got the best of me & I had to go for venom's matching KAV 250p preamp.

Now I'm presently running a CJ tube pre whick sounds incredible with the Krell. From what I've been told the Krell amp & preamp, since they both are balanced units will sound better than the CJ.

That might be true (the Krell pre is due on Thurs, 12/13) but I won't know until I get them both up & running for a head to head comparison.

All I can say for now is that the music from my system has me smiling from ear to ear. This Krell is just so much more than I expected. Now if the Krell pre performs better than the CJ...well then I'd even be more suprised. Time will tell.

[tonyb]

Nice man,can't wait to hear your impressions of the two together.I don't know why Jeremy parted with them,but if it works for you,thats great.

[venomclan]

I don't know why Jeremy parted with them,but if it works for you,thats great.

I needed the fundage for a BOSE Lifestyle system.

[sucks2beme]

I'm waiting for your review in a couple of days.
I've heard the CJ stuff, but sadly haven't heard
the Krell. My guess is the CJ will be smoother and forgiving,
while the Krell delivers it as is and with authority.
What if you love both of them???????

[rskarvan]

I would describe the Krell pre-amp as "getting out of the way of the music".
It doesn't alter the sound character at all. Very close to a "straight wire" sound.

What the Krell pre-amp does well is fully engage the Krell AMP and (using a car analogy) gets it to fire on all 8-cylinders.

Please, when you do your review, make certain that you are using the XLR inputs/outputs between the KAV250P and the KAV250A. If you don't use balanced cables, you will not see the benefit.

[cfrizz]

:eek: Yeah that'll do it!:D

I needed the fundage for a BOSE Lifestyle system.

[pearsall001]

I would describe the Krell pre-amp as "getting out of the way of the music".
It doesn't alter the sound character at all. Very close to a "straight wire" sound.

What the Krell pre-amp does well is fully engage the Krell AMP and (using a car analogy) gets it to fire on all 8-cylinders.

Please, when you do your review, make certain that you are using the XLR inputs/outputs between the KAV250P and the KAV250A. If you don't use balanced cables, you will not see the benefit.

Balanced cables on the Krell will be used to see how it compares to the CJ using single ended cables.

[hearingimpared]

Balanced cables on the Krell will be used to see how it compares to the CJ using single ended cables.

Uh oh say goodbye to the CJ!!!

[tonyb]

Uh oh say goodbye to the CJ!!!

Not so fast there big guy,though the Krell combo is awesome in it's own right,it still is not for everyone.The CJ may bring the warmth that is needed.We shall see.For me personally,the Krell combo sounds good but lacks the warmth and bloom in the mids.But who knows,the man may like it.Just like we never thought you'd dable in digital.:)

[rskarvan]

I'll never understand why people prefer a sound with color/warmth over accuracy.

I guess the visual equivalent would be wearing a pair of sun-glasses because you don't like the glare at mid-day. The problem is that (with audio equipment), you are now committed to wearing sunglasses even at night.

I'll squint during the day knowing that I'll see better at night. I want all the information possible delivered to my ears/brain by the sound system. If, at that point, the sound needs altered, I'll skip the separate system and just run it through a plain-old-receiver and adjust the bass/treble tone controls <yuck>.

[halo]

Balanced cables on the Krell will be used to see how it compares to the CJ using single ended cables.Cables don't matter :p;):)

[sucks2beme]

I'll never understand why people prefer a sound with color/warmth over accuracy.

I guess the visual equivalent would be wearing a pair of sun-glasses because you don't like the glare at mid-day. The problem is that (with audio equipment), you are now committed to wearing sunglasses even at night.

I'll squint during the day knowing that I'll see better at night. I want all the information possible delivered to my ears/brain by the sound system. If, at that point, the sound needs altered, I'll skip the separate system and just run it through a plain-old-receiver and adjust the bass/treble tone controls <yuck>.

As always, that synergy thing is in effect. After countless debates on what
music should sound like, let's not go there!
The man will let his ears decide.

[cfrizz]

That is what you should ask every person in here that is head over heels about tubes!

Because that is precisely what tubes do in a system. But so long as they like it who are we to say it is wrong?

Listening to music isn't about color/warmth or accuracy, it is about having the music played to each individuals liking.


I'll never understand why people prefer a sound with color/warmth over accuracy.

I guess the visual equivalent would be wearing a pair of sun-glasses because you don't like the glare at mid-day. The problem is that (with audio equipment), you are now committed to wearing sunglasses even at night.

I'll squint during the day knowing that I'll see better at night. I want all the information possible delivered to my ears/brain by the sound system. If, at that point, the sound needs altered, I'll skip the separate system and just run it through a plain-old-receiver and adjust the bass/treble tone controls <yuck>.

[pearsall001]

That is what you should ask every person in here that is head over heels about tubes!

Because that is precisely what tubes do in a system. But so long as they like it who are we to say it is wrong?

Listening to music is about color/warmth or accuracy, it is about having the music played to each individuals liking.

Right on the money Cathy. There is no right or wrong way, as to which set up you prefer. The only thing that matters is what's pleasing to your ears. Whether that be, tubes, SS, or a tube/SS hybrid system.

[Ricardo]

That's exactly the way it is. To each its own.





























Though in reality, people that still use tubes do so only because they have not heard good SS gear....just saying...

[sucks2beme]

That's exactly the way it is. To each its own.





























Though in reality, people that still use tubes do so only because they have not heard good SS gear....just saying...


Good solid state and good tube gear is still different. Nature of the beast.
Why do all your posts have that big open blank in the middle????
I keep looking to see if the screen is painting right.

[Ricardo]

Just messing with tube fans.

The big open nothing? Just a pause.

[sucks2beme]

Just messing with tube fans.

The big open nothing? Just a pause.

Quote from a musician:
Guitar feedback on a SS amp, everybody yells at you.
Guitar feedback on a tube amp, everyone loves you.
Like I said, different sounds for different people.

[rskarvan]

Quote from a musician:
Guitar feedback on a SS amp, everybody yells at you.
Guitar feedback on a tube amp, everyone loves you.
Like I said, different sounds for different people.

Ahhh... but the MUSICIAN defines the sound that he wants the listener to hear. That is the difference.

[hearingimpared]

Ahhh... but the MUSICIAN defines the sound that he wants the listener to hear. That is the difference.

Ha ha ha that would be great but unfortunately the engineer and mixer bring it to you in their shape and size!

[SCompRacer]

I'll never understand why people prefer a sound with color/warmth over accuracy.



Since this post was in response to tony saying the CJ would add warmth, I presume you are saying anything with warmth cannot be accurate in its presentation? We either all do hear differently, or you need more experience listening to various tubed gear.

[rskarvan]

Since this post was in response to tony saying the CJ would add warmth, I presume you are saying anything with warmth cannot be accurate in its presentation? We either all do hear differently, or you need more experience listening to various tubed gear.

Agreed. I have little to no experience with tube gear.

[hearingimpared]

The Tri Vista w/tube pre and sand amp is, in my book, not warm. If anything I would say it is on the cool side of neutral and very detailed.

[madmax]

What IS warmth? I always assumed it was either muted highs or a bit more loudness in the bass/midrange.
madmax

[hearingimpared]

I wouldn't say muted highs. I think warmth in my book is, laid back, less detailed with no leading edges but detailed none-the-less.

[treitz3]

As always, that synergy thing is in effect.
...;)

[SKsolutions]

Ha ha ha that would be great but unfortunately the engineer and mixer bring it to you in their shape and size!

Not really. The mic is almost always on the speaker of the cab which plays the combination of guitar, pedal, effects, etc, which are generally under the tight control of the guitarist. The producer may want to play with the sound they've got, once they've got it, but it's signature is has already been defined and recorded.

[tonyb]

well I would gather to say if a guitarst has all the control and turns it over to a producer who is going to play with the sound.....then that point is mute.

Funny to see what you guys consider "warmth"

Tubes add a weight to the musical notes that make them sound more real,lifelike if you will,and take that cold edge off you sometimes get with SS gear.Though there are some well put together SS stuff where you couldn't tell that it wasn't tubed.All aside,synergy is what the man is going to finally decide on,what we think means squat.

[hearingimpared]

well I would gather to say if a guitarst has all the control and turns it over to a producer who is going to play with the sound.....then that point is mute.

Funny to see what you guys consider "warmth"

Tubes add a weight to the musical notes that make them sound more real,lifelike if you will,and take that cold edge off you sometimes get with SS gear.Though there are some well put together SS stuff where you couldn't tell that it wasn't tubed.All aside,synergy is what the man is going to finally decide on,what we think means squat.


My statement here;

I wouldn't say muted highs. I think warmth in my book is, laid back, less detailed with no leading edges but detailed none-the-less.

"but detailed none - the - less," was a bad usage of words. You got it right Tony with the word weight!

Synergy is why I at first thought that the two Krells combined would shove the CJ right out of the running but listening to Phil's rig again, if the CJ synergizes well with the Krell amp, which I don't see why it wouldn't, with what is ahead of the amp, the amp will round out that rig. We won't know till it's in place.

[SKsolutions]

I'm always making mute points.

Warmth is a hard nuance to quantify, and you did as decent a job as I've seen here so far. I look forward to the review.

[hearingimpared]

Moot point!:D