Integra DTC-9.8 PreAmp/Processor Review

[malikarshad]

I got my 9.8 last Tuesday and have been playing around with it since the past week. I have calibrated the sound via Audyssey and have verified the levels using AVIA and RadioShack sound meter and the calibration levels are dead on.

Setup
The setup was fairly intutive. It's a big relief to have HDMI connection for both audio and video. But I did connect S-Video so that i can use my TV instead of burning projector hours.

Video Impression
The Reon does an excellent job of upscaling the DVD's. I have Oppo 981HD but it does not do 480i and DSD over HDMI so I bought Oppo 980H as it can output 480i over HDMI and DSD over HDMI. I compared Oppo 981HD Faroudja vs Reon and I like Reon better. The picture is more smoother. Its not huge but there is a subtle difference in vide quality. 980H is a keeper and i'll sell my 981HD. There is little nuisance with the 9.8 setup for output resolution. The resolution is fixed and is not specific to a particular input so if i play Highdef disc I have to change it to pass through.

Sound
Movie
The immediate thing i noticed is the clarity of the sound has improved and the sound stage is wide. The bass is tight. Even if i turn the volume high up there is no distortion in the sound.
So far I have only used Uncompressed and MultiChannel output of PS3 and HD-A2. I don't have a player that outputs bitstream of High Def auto format.
As I mention above DTS and DD sound very clear and refined and the sound is very eneveloping.

Music
SACD/DVD-Audio
For SACD is used 980H to o/p DSD over HDMI and the sound is clear with wide sound stage and the mid bass is tight. The higher frequency is little bright. The DVD-Audio did not sound as good as SACD. I don't have many DVD-A disc but the sound stage did not sound as wide as SACD. Maybe i'll have to try a well recorded disc and I don't know if Oppo 980H passed the raw bitstream for DVD-A
2-ch music
So far I'm not very impressed with the sound quality in 2-ch music listening. The sound is very bright and especially in a female vocal the S sound is like hissing. I have tried various modes Direct, Stereo, Neural THX 5.1(Does not work for HDMI input). The sound is very fatiguing after few minutes of listening. The bass seems to be ok but the higher frequency is bright. I don't like to adjust Tone control as I did not have to do it with my previous Denon AVR-3803. I liked the warm sound of Denon and its pure direct mode. I thought 9.8 will outperform the Denon in sound quality as it uses better DAC.

The other positive about this unit are
1. Bi-Amp the unit
2. Balance output
3. Component Video output for Zone2/3.
4. 2 HDMI output with a caveat.
5. Upscaling of Composite, S-Video, Component Video to HDMI.

The few -ve's are
1. You can output via only one HDMI output.
2. No Pure Direct mode to shut off video circuit.
3. No processing of Reon for 720p, 1080p except edge enhacement.
4. Only 1 subwoofer out.
5. No dislay of Reon setting on the setup menu screen.


This unit is great for people who don't care about 2-ch music. Due to space limitaion I have both my 2-ch and HT integrated so its a deal breaker for me if I cannot figure out to toned down brightness in 2-ch music.
I plan to return the unit to the dealer or sell it off as I cannot justify spending MSRP on this and be unhappy with it.
I'm really confused:confused:

[Face]

As much as I don't like using them, I'm sure there are tone controls for 2 ch. stereo mode.

[avguytx]

This would be the exact reason I don't mix 2-channel with HT. But, there's a give and take when you do combine them typically and even though the Integra and Onkyo Pro prepro's are great units, they had to sacrifice somewhere. It sounds like for the majority of what you are doing, it's doing it right. What percentage of listening is in 2-channel versus surround? If it's more 2-channel than HT and space is a limitation, well, I'm not sure what to tell you.

[WilliamM2]

I have the Onkyo PR-SC885P (same unit, different faceplate), and have not found it to be bright at all, actually seems rather laid back for 2 channel. I use Pure Direct for two channel mode, for some reason they left this feature off the Integra model.

Are you comparing this brightness to your tube gear? If so, that may explain it, but otherwise I am confused as well.

[malikarshad]

I have the Onkyo PR-SC885P (same unit, different faceplate), and have not found it to be bright at all, actually seems rather laid back for 2 channel. I use Pure Direct for two channel mode, for some reason they left this feature off the Integra model.

Are you comparing this brightness to your tube gear? If so, that may explain it, but otherwise I am confused as well.

No I'm not comparing this to my Tube gear. Although I hooked up my tube gear to 9.8 and compared the sound when I had Denon connected. And I can hear highs are tad brighter but not to the same degree without the tubes.

In my many years of owning LSi15 I have rarely heard a sizzle but with 9.8 its very apparent.
I mostly used Pure Direct mode in Denon and that's what I'm used to.
So I think I have couple of options
1. Get a Onkyo Pro if I can get my hands on it. I'll have to sell my 9.8 but I don't know how much loss I'll have to take on it.
2. As much I hate using Tone Control I'll have to adjust it. But I'm not sure whether 9.8 keeps this setting per input of it applies it for all inputs except the THX.

William does the pure direct mode on 885 turns off the subwoofer output?

My listening preferences varies depending upon my work load but it;s roughly around 50-70% HT and 30-50% music. If i'm too tired from work i'd like to relax listening to music otherwise I watch movies.

[Silverti]

This unit is great for people who don't care about 2-ch music. Due to space limitaion I have both my 2-ch and HT integrated so its a deal breaker for me if I cannot figure out to toned down brightness in 2-ch music.
I plan to return the unit to the dealer or sell it off as I cannot justify spending MSRP on this and be unhappy with it.
I'm really confused:confused:

I’m still jealous. I waited 2 months for one and gave up and bought the Onkyo 805. I would loved to have those balanced outs (since I pre-out all 7.1 any ways). But it’s an AWESOME HT unit. I've also considered a new unit for 2 channel but I would also need to supplement my rti12's with maybe LSI15's or such.

HOWEVER! I do think they sounds great if you 7.1 channel "All stereo" music. IT really does sound pretty good and is my preferred way to listen to music on these units now.

[WilliamM2]

William does the pure direct mode on 885 turns off the subwoofer output?


Yes, it turns off the sub, and all video output except HDMI. Direct also turns off the sub, but leaves all video outputs active.

Tone control is global, not per input.

[dkg999]

I agree with the comments on "something has to be compromised". It seems as the manufacturers pack more video and other features into these AVR's, and try to keep the price points market friendly, that they have to choose where to compromise to keep costs/margins in check. I'm still not convinced that HDMI is stable yet, or why it's a must have feature on an AVR. Oppo's $100 HDMI switcher looks like a great answer to the problem.

Me, I'll keep the sound quality of my B&K AVR 507 s2 over any of these new AVR's. Eventually the HD DVD format wars will wind down and I'll buy a DVD player that outputs the HD sound via 7.1 outputs. I've listened to many of these new AVR's and I just don't like the sound quality they produce. When I'm half (or fully) asleep watching a movie, it's sound quality that matters. The video could be on a 13" b&w tv for all I care at that point ;)

[malikarshad]

Yes, it turns off the sub, and all video output except HDMI. Direct also turns off the sub, but leaves all video outputs active.
Tone control is global, not per input.
That's a bummer. William have you done A/B btwn Pure Direct/Direct mode and which one do you prefer.
I really miss the pure direct mode and i think i'm leaning towards getting 885.

I agree with the comments on "something has to be compromised". It seems as the manufacturers pack more video and other features into these AVR's, and try to keep the price points market friendly, that they have to choose where to compromise to keep costs/margins in check. I'm still not convinced that HDMI is stable yet, or why it's a must have feature on an AVR. Oppo's $100 HDMI switcher looks like a great answer to the problem.

Me, I'll keep the sound quality of my B&K AVR 507 s2 over any of these new AVR's. Eventually the HD DVD format wars will wind down and I'll buy a DVD player that outputs the HD sound via 7.1 outputs. I've listened to many of these new AVR's and I just don't like the sound quality they produce. When I'm half (or fully) asleep watching a movie, it's sound quality that matters. The video could be on a 13" b&w tv for all I care at that point ;)
Same feeling here. I'm more of an audio perfectionist rather than video. If it does not sound good i won't even watch the movie.

I’m still jealous. I waited 2 months for one and gave up and bought the Onkyo 805. I would loved to have those balanced outs (since I pre-out all 7.1 any ways). But it’s an AWESOME HT unit. I've also considered a new unit for 2 channel but I would also need to supplement my rti12's with maybe LSI15's or such.

HOWEVER! I do think they sounds great if you 7.1 channel "All stereo" music. IT really does sound pretty good and is my preferred way to listen to music on these units now.
Silverti it does sound good in HT mode and has taken the movie experience to the next level. I have 5.1 setup and have the LSiFx surround in dipole mode so I don't how it will sound but I'll give it a shoot.

[WilliamM2]

That's a bummer. William have you done A/B btwn Pure Direct/Direct mode and which one do you prefer.
I really miss the pure direct mode and i think i'm leaning towards getting 885.


I prefer Pure Direct, but also use Stereo if I want to keep the sub in the mix.

The only time I use Direct, is for listening in the garage (Zone 2), as I run composite video out there to a small TV so I can control the 885 and my CDR-HD1500 (stores all my CD's) from the garage. Of course I don't do critical listening in the garage.

[cheddar]

I was waiting 'till all the Christmas hoopla was over to try and get either the pro or integra version. Now you've got me rethinking this as I'm making a similar move to yours -- 3803 and lsi15s to the pre/pro. I already have external amps that make things crisp...and am not sure how things will pair up if things will sound brighter.

William, what kind of amplification are you using?

[WilliamM2]

A Denon POA-2400 for the front channels (300x2 @ 6 ohms) and a Marantz MM-9000 for the center, surrounds, and Zone 2 to the garage (150 x 5 @ 8 ohms).

[avguytx]

You just gotta love power...

[malikarshad]

I was waiting 'till all the Christmas hoopla was over to try and get either the pro or integra version. Now you've got me rethinking this as I'm making a similar move to yours -- 3803 and lsi15s to the pre/pro. I already have external amps that make things crisp...and am not sure how things will pair up if things will sound brighter.
William, what kind of amplification are you using?
Cheddar don't get me wrong. Its a great pre/pro overall but 2-ch music sucks on it. With that said its not bang for the buck as i paid MSRP on it & i was expecting it to perform atleast on par with my older gear if not better.
Again I'll have to try to tweak it a little bit to see if I can like it.
Either ways i'll post my impressions as to what happens in the end.

[cheddar]

Yes, please play around with it some and post your impressions. I'm just expecting a jump in sound quality from a 3803 especially for 2-channel as AVRs do fine for HT to begin with. If 2-channel is bright, seems like there would be receiver options that would give you bang for the buck HT. Did yours come with the latest firmware? Over at AVS they're saying that you get more reon control with the latest update.

[malikarshad]

Yes mine came with the latest firmware 1.04 and I can change Reon options on the Preamp but not on the screen.

[Sherardp]

Congrats, you were able to get one. The 9.8 is a beast from the looks of it. Im sure its going to be Killer for the HT apps. Nice review as well.

[avguytx]

FYI...I was just looking on the Integra support site and notices that there is a Firmware update for the DTC-9.8 PrePro (v1.05) plus one for the DTR-8.8 receiver (v1.06 Here is what the release description is for the unit.

Release 1.05- adds Audyssey MultEQ Pro compatibility. Please download and print full instructions (PDF) included in the attached ZIP file. Update will take 15-20 minutes to complete. You will need a PC with an RS-232/serial connection to complete the FW update.

I can download and save the file but I'm not sure if I can email it out. If anyone has this unit and wants to try the email thing, let me know. I can't give you the link for it as it's for dealers/reps only. It's a little under a 5mb zipped file, too.

[WilliamM2]

I'd be interested. Use the email in my profile.
Thanks

[rjreda]

Not sure if this has been posted, but here's another review:

http://www.soundstageav.com/onhometheater/20071201.htm

[rjreda]

Well, I got the Integra set up last night. I finished setting up around 1AM, but was up until 4AM putting it through it's initial paces. Some first impressions:

The simplicity and ease of set up - I have to say, at first I was a little bit overwhelmed by all of things this piece can do, but once I got everything hooked up, the set up was a breeze. Everything is so logically laid out, it was refreshing. It seemed like they actually gave a lot of thought into how the menus were grouped and how they flowed, etc. Very well done. I'll also mention that I really liked the supplied remote. It too was laid out very well and easily trumps some of the other "universal" offerings I've used in the past from Rotel (AWFUL remote), Denon (better than Rotel, but still very cluttered) and Yamaha.


Flexibility and options - As well done as the set up was, I was equally impressed with how many options are available to tailor the parameters towards your liking. From the listening modes to the various inputs, there seems like there's no preference the Integra can't accommodate. One unforgivable omission: as I've previously mentioned in this thread, I find it pretty much ridiculous that there is only one sub out on this piece. My 6 year old Rotel even had 2 sub outs. I'm just not sure how a piece like this, with it's myriad of inputs of every conceivable sort, could not have one. I mean, come on Integra...not only is there plenty of room for just one more input jack, but you could have omitted a lesser user input or feature and provided this. You would think that in this day and age, they would realize that someone buying a piece of gear like this would be running 2 subs. Oh well, I'll buy the Y-splitter, but I just think that after spending $1600, I should be set and wouldn't have to make any other purchases (I already had plenty of cabling) to set my system up to my liking.

Video - I went the pass-through route, so nothing really to report here other than that there seems to be no degradation to the video signal at all, although it is a nice option to have the capability to tailor the video realm for your various sources.

2-channel analog audio - Being an audio guy, this is where I had the most trepidation going in. Just how well would the Integra stand up to my long time Rotel mainstay? Disclaimer: I was so eager to get the unit set up, that I simply plugged in the (very) rudimentary distance settings (only in feet vs. the Integra's 1/5 of a foot) from my Rotel into the Integra just to get the party started. I did however pull out the Radio Shack SPL meter to make sure all channels were on an even kiel. Later on today, I'll take actual measurements or just let the Audyssey process run and see what happens. The first thing I tried was the analog CD input accepting a signal from a CD transport digitally feeding an outboard DAC which runs analog to the Integra. I chose "Harder to Breathe" from Maroon 5's first album as I not only know exactly how this track is supposed to sound, but I also wanted to hear how wide of a soundstage the Integra threw as well as measure it's bass prowess. Using the "stereo" listening mode, after hitting play I was initially a bit disappointed. The details in the intro to the song weren't presented in the manner that the Rotel did. The Rotel seemed to pull them from the background and (not unrealistically) shine a light on them, allowing them to easily be heard. The bass was also a bit of a letdown. It seemed a lot more shy than my previous pre/pro. At that point, I walked over to the sub to see what it was doing and noticed that it was putting out some sound. I guess "stereo" is the 2 channel mode that does actually go through some processing and after setting it to "direct," I got no bass from my sub. After setting it to direct, I felt like I enjoyed the sound a little bit more. Not as much as I did with the Rotel, but a little bit more than before. Please keep in mind that at that point the unit had only been on a short time (say 45 minutes) and the innards hadn't really gotten to know each other just yet (AKA burn-in), so I'm reserving my judgment on the analog input's sound until (a) things burn-in a bit longer and (b) I set up the Integra correctly using the true distances. I'm also going to try running the upsampled signal from my DAC digital coax out (vs. analog) to the Integra to see if I can notice a difference.

***Addendum - I feel compelled to add this right now. In hopes that all the circuitry would gel overnight, I left the unit on (not standby) as I had always done with the Rotel. I began typing this when I woke up, so I hadn't had a chance to re-listen to some 2-channel stuff since last night. In the middle of typing this, I figured I'd head down to the HT to turn on the DirecTV box, set it to Dolby Digital EX and let the signal flow through it some more. While down there, I decided to slap some Dave Matthews Band "Crash" in the CD player. Although I wanted to, I hadn't listened to this last night due to how late it was. This is another CD (more so than the aforementioned Maroon 5 album) with which I am totally familiar with. Being a HUGE DMB fan, I've listened to this CD innumerable times and therefore know every nuance in this album...every note, piece of percussion, guitar fret noise, everything is burned into my psyche and even my soul. I was not prepared for what I heard. Last night, things just didn't sound "right." Not certain if it was just hearing something other than my trusty Rotel in my system (I almost felt like I was cheating on it with another pre/pro...I know, pretty strange but that's how it felt after 6 years with the Rotel), I can only describe the sound as slightly veiled in comparison to the very open sound I was accustomed to. I perhaps would even say a tad compressed in terms of the soundstage as compared to the width that the Rotel threw. That was all about to change. I was floored. I don't know if it was leaving the unit on all night, the fact that I really didn't push it all that hard in terms of volume last night for fear of waking my wife or at the very least , the change in CDs, but things were indeed different. Gone was the narrowness (?) of the soundstage. It widened significantly. The sound was still ever so slightly recessed, but I felt confident that it would open up some in the coming days. The speakers sprung to life with the jazz groove of "#41." The textures hidden in the background that I am so intimately familiar with were immediately audible. In fact, to use a common review cliché, I had heard things in the song that even I hadn't heard before. I was truly listening "into" the song. WOW. My intent was to listen to a few measures before getting back to work (on a snowy Saturday...in Georgia???). So much for that. I sat through that track and the next track, "Say Goodbye." The fluid, circular drumming in the intro of "Say Goodbye" has always proved to be great demo material for friends, but it also is a measurement tool to hear how well a source can convey the sound of an expansive drum set and a ridiculous about of toms of every shape and size being played so fast, so well. At the height of the intro, just prior to the point when Carter Beauford slams into the song proper, he executes an amazing drum roll that can sound compressed at high volumes on lesser systems not up to the challenge. Not so here. The Integra conveyed every drum hit perfectly. I was now sitting in front of the drum set. I got chills, goose bumps, my hair stood up on end and (without sounding completely melodramatic and over the top) a tad choked up in the sense that the Integra brought me THAT close to the music. It really touched my music-loving soul***

Multichannel digital audio - As expected, this is where the Integra really shined. It really is the digital powerhouse that everyone as said. I won't go into it's prowess in this realm too much because we all know that's what the Integra was made for. It easily handled the sound from my DirecTV H20 box (optical digital), my Denon 2910 universal player (digital coax out & multichannel analog L/R out for SACD/DVD-A) and my PS3 (HDMI). In fact, where I was most impressed in this regard was the processing of the uncompressed Blu-Ray PCM signal from the PS3. It handled everything with aplomb. The disc that really shone was the Blu-Ray of Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds "Live at Radio City." When listening to the Dolby TrueHD track, I felt like they were playing right in front of me. I heard all of Tim's slide and delay effects, as well as the fret noise/buzz and all of Dave's percussive nuances in his playing. Superb. If you like good music and are even remotely a fan of DMB or Dave himself, run out and get this disc. It's a must-have for any music lover and is spectacular on Blu-Ray, audio and video-wise.

There's lots more to say, but I'm about spent for right now. I'll be posting some more comments/observations later after I get a chance to really dial things in a bit more. I'm sure the Integra will only get that much better in the coming days. I'm gonna wear this thing out. So as you can tell, I'm enthralled with this piece. For $1600, it is THE steal of the year in HT right now, even in the infancy of 2008. It's just that good. Minor quibbles aside [some latency in accessing the menus via HDMI when viewing another source (only 1-2 seconds, no biggie at all), some minor lip sync issues when leaving an HD broadcast to go to a SD commercial] and my annoyance of the lack of a 2nd sub output, one can easily look past these things and simply enjoy the Integra for what it is, a rare overachiever and one hell of a pre/pro for even $1,000 more. Very well done, Integra!!! :D

Edit: You are able to watch another source while listening to a different source. Just select a video source, then select an audio source and voila!

[cfrizz]

Welcome to Club Polk RJ! Thanks for the review.

[WilliamM2]

rjreda,

When feeding any of the analog inputs on the 9.8 or 885 (except multi-channel), the signal goes through an A/D converter, is processed, and goes to the D/A converter. This adds two more conversions to the signal.

I get better 2 channel results by connecting the player with optical, or coax connection. This keeps everthing digital until the final D/A conversion in the pre-pro. In other words it eliminates two conversions.

[mantis]

I Knew it... I really knew it.

Integra is known for it's lack of sound quality. I have installed them years ago and always left feeling empty. Bright and lack of controled or even good bass. I'm not a fan of them at all.

Now on the other hand knowing all that, I saw this preamp and got really juiced up. In the back of my mind, I knew it. Now another theory of mine which is strongly becoming
reality is Mixing 2 ch with HT is just not the way to go. Seperating them is key. having a system geared towards both never really gives you geat results.

I have been looking for a preamp since HD and Blue came out. I already know after reading these reviews, the Integra sound quality and history characteristics is still very real. I wanted this unit to be more refined and clean like it's higher end brother in Integra research. But wishful thinking is getting me know where.

I'm still very pissed off at Rotel for releasing there bullshit preamp 1069. It processes nothing. It sucks. I'm sure it sound incredible like mine (1068) at doing everything it does but it doesn't DO what I'M looking for. Why O why is it so hard to have it???? Every single Japanese receiver has everything you could want except sound quality for us idiot 2ch and theater guy mixes....

I'm just mad.

[WilliamM2]

Lack of sound quality? Although I have the 885, not a 9.8, I can tell you sound quality is very good for 2 channel. The 885 does have "pure audio" though, which for some reason the Integra lacks, and that is the mode I prefer for 2 channel.

[rjreda]

rjreda,

When feeding any of the analog inputs on the 9.8 or 885 (except multi-channel), the signal goes through an A/D converter, is processed, and goes to the D/A converter. This adds two more conversions to the signal.

I get better 2 channel results by connecting the player with optical, or coax connection. This keeps everthing digital until the final D/A conversion in the pre-pro. In other words it eliminates two conversions.

Yes, but I have an external DAC that receives a digital signal from my CD player then runs analog out L/R to the Integra, so I have no choice.

[rjreda]

I Knew it... I really knew it.

Integra is known for it's lack of sound quality. I have installed them years ago and always left feeling empty. Bright and lack of controled or even good bass. I'm not a fan of them at all.

Now on the other hand knowing all that, I saw this preamp and got really juiced up. In the back of my mind, I knew it. Now another theory of mine which is strongly becoming
reality is Mixing 2 ch with HT is just not the way to go. Seperating them is key. having a system geared towards both never really gives you geat results.

I have been looking for a preamp since HD and Blue came out. I already know after reading these reviews, the Integra sound quality and history characteristics is still very real. I wanted this unit to be more refined and clean like it's higher end brother in Integra research. But wishful thinking is getting me know where.

I'm still very pissed off at Rotel for releasing there bullshit preamp 1069. It processes nothing. It sucks. I'm sure it sound incredible like mine (1068) at doing everything it does but it doesn't DO what I'M looking for. Why O why is it so hard to have it???? Every single Japanese receiver has everything you could want except sound quality for us idiot 2ch and theater guy mixes....

I'm just mad.

Mantis,

I hear ya...I LOVED my Rotel (1066) but at the end of it's 5-6 year run, it just couldn't do what I wanted it to do now, in '08. Rotel just needs to get their butts in gear. I know they always take just a little bit longer to do stuff based on economies of scale, but they've lost so much money because of this.

Now I disagree with you that you can't mix 2 channel with HT...you can and I had it down a few short months ago. BUT, I wanted to step up to the new formats and sacrificed a bit of that 2 channel sound by going with the Integra. Am I missing something in 2 channel? Yes. BUT, what I gained actually makes up for a little bit of it. I feel that once I run the Audyssey program and snap everything into place sound-wise (I've only SPL'd all channels), I'll be in much better shape.

[WilliamM2]

Yes, but I have an external DAC that receives a digital signal from my CD player then runs analog out L/R to the Integra, so I have no choice.

You have a choice. Feed the digital signalfrom the CD player directly into the 9.8, You might be suprised at the improvement.

[ESAVINON]

I'm anxiously waiting for my onkyo pro pr-sc885p which i pre ordered online for a great price. It will be paired with an emotiva mps-2 amplifier in my bedroom.
I'm using a polkaudio rt5000p system with 4 ls-fx and a paradigm ls-1200 sub to round things out.