The Eminem Show [Archive]

Zero

11-11-2002, 02:37 AM

Phuz,

Yes, this cd contains that track. I cannot vouch for owning many hip hop cd's so I have little to compare as far as that genre is concerned.

F1, I am afraid the quality of a recording has little to do with the artist. Hell, I have yet to find a good "stairway to heaven" recording...

As for talent. Well ones taste is ones taste, not going to debate that. However, dont confuse the style with talent. Quite honestly, he has a lot of it.... just a very "unique" way of using it.

And yeah, Im positive he is laughin all the way to the bank.... :)

Z

F1nut

11-11-2002, 02:48 AM

Oh, I wasn't confusing style for talent. ;)

Zero

11-11-2002, 03:13 AM

haha F1, then whatcha waitin for, jump on the band wagon , go rap and make millions! hehe

F1nut

11-11-2002, 03:28 AM

Nah, my principles and morals wouldn't let me. :D

Zero

11-11-2002, 10:46 AM

Principles and morals. Listen to your excuses, just come clean with us. Your wife wouldnt let you..

Z

scottvamp

11-11-2002, 01:09 PM

In eminem we trust. This guy is such a freaking joke. All the burns outs that miss Vanilla Ice. 58 million on 8 mile opening weekend. Second highest grossing rated R movie of all time. Funny 80% of all his fans are under 17. Hmmmm!!!! Hey, lets all be M-n-M's sheep.

RuSsMaN

11-11-2002, 01:15 PM

I actually think for what it is, its pretty decent. Good beats, gets the ladies up and dancing, I'm all for that.

Come on Scott, I've heard some say he could even be the next 'Eddie Rabbit'.

Cheers,
Russ

Zero

11-11-2002, 01:17 PM

Scott,

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel... :D

phuz

11-11-2002, 01:27 PM

Oh c'mon scott. Do we have a bit of a biased opinion? :p

I agree with Russman, for what it is it's good. Eminem has talent, and he's got a badass producer behind him making some good tunes. I *really* don't see the vanilla ice comparison.

80% of those that support all pop culture are under 17, not just Eminem or Rap. And you can't blame the artists.

I'm don't like sheeple as much as the next guy, but you have to admit there is some artistic credability.

Oh, and just a rant/comment. Eminem is NOT hip-hop. Eminem is Rap or hip-POP at best. Real hip-hop is hardly anything like what you hear or see on mtv.

*steps off soapbox and puts on some cannibal corpse*

\m/

F1nut

11-11-2002, 01:38 PM

Funny 80% of all his fans are under 17.

The wiggerfercation of America is almost complete.....sad, very sad!

STUFFMD

11-11-2002, 02:47 PM

I'm so tired of his I was born a poor white child attitude........I heard one of the Big three stations was going to do a autobigraphical story on him, but passed on the idea because his life was so typical and boreing.nothing special.

gidrah

11-11-2002, 04:47 PM

Sorry ATC. I looked in the case and Vivaldi was in it. I looked in the Vivaldi and it was empty. Damn wife does this stuff all the time. It's probably in her car.

Personally I think he raps pretty dang good. I've driven down 8 mile road countless times.

TroyD

11-11-2002, 04:58 PM

Regardless of his music, he is still an ass clown in dire need of a physically induced attitude adjustment.

BDT

RuSsMaN

11-11-2002, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by TroyD
Regardless of his music, he is still an ass clown in dire need of a physically induced attitude adjustment.

BDT

Based on. . .?

Cheers,
Russ

F1nut

11-11-2002, 05:02 PM

FACT

TroyD

11-11-2002, 05:10 PM

Just from what I've seen, it would seem that he has a major attitude problem. That's just the way I see it.

Of course, he could be a very swell guy but he comes accross as a little pissant that needs to get his ass kicked.

BDT

RuSsMaN

11-11-2002, 05:19 PM

Oh, based on 'what you've seen'. That clears it all up, thanks for the specifics, I thought maybe you had something for real, something enlightening.

But nope, just a big bag.

All I'm saying is, just because one may not care for his type of music, doesn't mean its BAD. What other Rap/Hip Hop artists do you guys like, what are you comparing him to? What are these 'facts' that make him suck? I'm just curious, really.

Like I said, like him (or his music) or not, for what it is, 'I' think its pretty damn good.

Cheers,
Rooster

phuz

11-11-2002, 05:22 PM

Sheeesh. It's not that hard to read between the lines guys.

Gee if it's that simple then I guess TOOL and KISS are just satan worshipers? David Bowie is really from outer space? Liberace wasn't gay because he sang about women?

"All you know about me is what I sold ya..." MJK

As far as his general attitude, I think it's needed and well deserved. There is a reason that america's youth are buying millions of his records, and it's not necessarily marketing tactics either.

EDIT: And this is post #420. W000H000. You know what time it is..... ;)

caseymou

11-11-2002, 05:24 PM

I'm 26 and I secretly listen to eminem as well as other "hip-pop" such as missy elliot (sp?). What can I say, I like the beat. I think he has quite a future ahead of him.

Zero

11-11-2002, 05:33 PM

Personally, from an artists perspective I have nothing but respect for the man.

Yes, his lyrics and content can be considered offensive and obscene, often times blatently so just to strike the nerves of those who seem to prefer more civilzed forms of expression.

He is popular for a reason, he is one of the very first artists not to sugar coat what he has to say. Yes his mind seems to be very unique, sick, and sometimes even twisted, but its the harsh reality and most importantly - the ENERGY- in his music which captures the audience.

Also, he is one of the first rap artists to come fowarth with songs that give way to a human side as well, admitting personal flaws. Many artists attempt to give this image of impregnable "coolness"... at least Eminem is secure enough to rap about times when he was scared shitless and put down.

Yeah, we all have our sob stories, his is very simular to hundreds if not thousands of other suburban white American kids. At this moment however, Eminem seems to be the voice which exploits and represents that group - among other things.

Like it or not... Im afraid.

Btw: This has gone off-topic, anyone actually listen to this cd and notice the poor recording quality? With all the harsh opinions I would imagine most of you have...

TroyD

11-11-2002, 05:38 PM

Actually, I think, for what it is, his music is pretty decent. I'm not a rap fan but I think the stuff that I've heard is pretty good.

I base my assesments on his personal conduct. He seems to have no respect for anyone or anything. The way he acted at the MTV music awards, I thought, was the epitome of being an ass clown. My personal theory, regardless of how popular you are or how much money you make, it's still no excuse for being an asshole.

BDT

HBombToo

11-11-2002, 05:45 PM

Live and let Live is my motto...

for me, I cannot stand listening to country music, but hey, Thats just me. Some good looking singers though.

HBomb

phuz

11-11-2002, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by TroyD
My personal theory, regardless of how popular you are or how much money you make, it's still no excuse for being an asshole.

BDT

It worked for Andrew Dice Clay, and Andy Kauffman. It's a part of his persona. Any publicity is good publicity. C'mon man, duh.

I think it's effin hillarious that he and MOBY are in a 'fight.' I mean, it's freakin moby. If you seriously think about it, it's a big ass joke and yes he's laughing all the way to the bank.

gidrah

11-11-2002, 05:54 PM

Hook that up Phuz. I can't anymore.

TroyD

11-11-2002, 05:57 PM

He is popular for a reason, he is one of the very first artists not to sugar coat what he has to say. Yes his mind seems to be very unique, sick, and sometimes even twisted, but its the harsh reality and most importantly - the ENERGY- in his music which captures the audience

I would disagree with this rationale. Without being prudish, vulgarity isn't necessarily honesty.

Look, go back to the 60's, regardless of your view on the politics, now there were some folks with something to say. Shit, you wan't honesty and someone with something to say? Frank Zappa. I don't think that Marshall is breaking much new territory here. Just MO.

As far as writing about songs that put a personal element into things....shoot, Springsteen has been writing about these kind of things for close to 30 years. People been writing about these kind of things way before Marshall was pissed off about not getting a Transformer or Gobot for Christmas

I'm not debating if M&M is 'good' or 'bad', for what it is, I think it's pretty good. I'm just saying, he isn't really all that original

BDT

Zero

11-11-2002, 06:06 PM

TroyD, my apologis, I forgot to mention he is one of the first RAP artists to be as blatent as he has been.... this is at least my opinion. I was never into snoop, biggy, 2pac, etc... I just like what I hear and dont get wound up about the stuff I dont like.

Dammit has anyone experienced this crappy recording yet? LOL!

scottvamp

11-11-2002, 06:14 PM

When the entertainment stats come out I bet he is at the top.
He'll probably will put about a 100 million in his pocket this year. That is more than 100 people will make in a life time. He will probably name the price of his next movie. When will this guy jump the shark? That is the question. Everything he does turns to gold. How did this guy get on Dr. Dre's REALLY GOOD side? I know how women do it! I just want 1 million. That's all.
Actually they are comparing him to the next ELVIS. That is scary!!!! Anyway I'm just not into it at all. SHEEP!!!!!!!!

Micah Cohen

11-13-2002, 10:31 AM

A thread discussing M&M's "talent"? I'm surprised it got this far.

I want to know what happened to MUSIC. I mean, MUSIC, you know: notes on a page, constructed into melodies and stuff. And SINGING, what happened to SINGING. You know, using the voice as an instrument itself, varying pitch and stuff. SINGING? MUSIC? Where the heck did it all go?

I thought rap was a fad. How come it's not going away, like disco?

Curtis Hanson, my man. LA CONFIDENTIAL. Now this. What a waste.

Goddamn Empty-V for systematically eviscerating the standards of today's entertainment consumers.

MC

Zero

11-18-2002, 01:09 AM

Micah,

Adding to this is like beating a dead horse. We all now have a better idea of where we stand when it comes to new music, be it rock, hip hop... etc.

I just find it quite humorous reading objective posts such as the one above, and wondering to myself if I will be the same way in the years ahead..

Music is choice. There are many instances when I would rather listen to a skinny white boy from detroit rapping (or talking as critics like to put it) about ripping off a dogs head, rather then listening to an over-weight woman from Italy sing at the top of her lungs in a language I cannot comprehend.

I usually get this re-occuring theory that people dont hate rap, so much (or as much in some cases) as they hate how it influences the already seemingly ignorant youth who more and more attempts to "live the music"....Meaning that little timmy who was raised in a good home with good parents, pretends he lives in the ghetto, and dress's and acts like the way the music he listens to says he should. I enjoy the music itself, but I dislike the redundant message of "Im the mutha f@!*$er, can't no one f$#!! wid me yo".... How many times can you rap about money, girls, pimping, and just statements of general anger which seem to repeat themselves....Obviously it's good enough to sell and keep the artists and record labels happy, along with the fanbase.

To those who claim it takes no talent... I would love to hear you step up to the plate, and "Free-style". It is not quite as easy as you may think it is.

Refering back to your post Micah, yeah, writting down and composing music is alive and well, you just dont hear it on the air-waves as much. Its also worthy to note, Eminem did sing in one of his tracks...

In the beginning though, I made this thread to get an answer...seemed as if most people focused on the merits of Eminem's music, instead of the question in hand. Ok, suppose with such a controversal figure thats to be expected. I have made my own conclusion in the process.. this cd truely is recorded like shit. Even the LSi, SDA combination could not mask its hidious overly bright and punchy recording.

No doubt, this cd was meant for that Honda Civic next to you at the stop light......

phuz

11-18-2002, 02:57 AM

Indeed it was intended for those types of systems. Thats the target audience ya know?

ATC, now that you have your LSi's you may unfortunately notice more and more how bad the production quality is on a lot of stuff. Have you gone through your whole CD collection with the LSi's yet? heheh

pensacola

11-18-2002, 08:41 AM

>>Even the LSi, SDA combination could not mask
>>its hidious overly bright and punchy recording.

Have you tried it on Klipsch yet?

Honestly, those recordings are not marketed to those of us
with any sense of audio discernment.

Zero

11-18-2002, 04:17 PM

Phuz,

When I began this audio journey, I was under the false impression that the "better" equipment got, the more it would be able to hide the errors and flaws of a recording. What a painfull experience it was when I realized it was just the opposite... I dont have a huge collection of amassed CD's so yes, I went through them all almost in the first day.

Pensacola, man, no offense to any Klipsch owners but I would consider listening to "The Eminem Show" on them, as pure torture.

And yes, you both bring up valid points of merit. The cd is not targeted towards those with higher end audio systems... Its just a shame when music that is otherwise decent, looses its "enjoyment" factor because of poor recording.

PETERNG

11-18-2002, 06:41 PM

watching this guy, I have to go look for the song "angry young man" sing by Styx. Troy is right on target...

goingganzo

11-18-2002, 10:50 PM

the cd is ok not the best but ok

pensacola

11-21-2002, 02:29 AM

Admitting to liking Eminem is sorta like admitting to
enjoying kiddie porn or belonging to the KKK.

I've read his lyrics and I don't know how one could separate
the "artist" from the "message." No doubt he has God-given
talent. No doubt that graffiti artists are a talented bunch too,
though a little misguided. All talents can be used for good
or bad. We make that choice.

The fact is that our society has coarsened to the point that
nothing much seems to bother us anymore. It takes more and
more to get a rise out of us. We're not satisfied with just
sports anymore--they gotta be "extreme sports." It seems to
have seeped into all areas of life; even our laundry detergent
has to be labeled "ultra" nowadays.

There was a time when one was ashamed to have a child out
of wedlock, or to experience ones child using profanity in public.
There was a time when there was a general acceptance of
"right" and "wrong"--and people were NOT ashamed to admit it.

There's no good that comes from Eminem. He falls squarely
into the "bad things" column. But anymore, we're called
judgemental--or worse--if we're so bold as to say so, by those
that would attempt to justify bad behavior.

===Here's a good read on the subject by Bill O'Reilly:
http://www.billoreilly.com/site/product?pid=10030

F1nut

11-21-2002, 02:59 AM

pensacola, my man!

Well written, it gives me hope that there are enough of us left to recognize right from wrong and to stand up to say so.

Jesse

phuz

11-21-2002, 03:29 AM

I somewhat agree with your society comments, I couldn't disagree more in regards to Eminem.

There were also times when kids had two parents instead of just one. When kids didn't have to worry about their mom pawning their TV for crack, or had to count the days till daddy gets out of prison.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying todays youth has an excuse to eff up. I'm trying to say that things evolve, and that there is a *really* good message in his stuff. You just have to read between the lines a bit, which unfortunately so many people can't seem to do these days.

He wouldn't be so popular, if today's youth couldn't relate to the message. I think that speaks volumes. His "art" is an expression of his experience and society as a whole. Ya can't blame him for it. At least he's trying to tell people something real.

If nobody ever pushed the envelope, we'd all still be listening to full range paper drivers. Change is inevitable, wether or not society sees the reason is debateable.

F1nut

11-21-2002, 04:27 AM

He wouldn't be so popular, if today's youth couldn't relate to the message. I think that speaks volumes.

And there in lies the problem and the point. Yes, evolution and change are constant, but we have become numb to the respect of a human life, the lack of a good education, drug use and a general lack of morals. We are not evolving into better people, a better society, we are self destructing. He does not offer a solution to the problem, he is part of the problem. If he wanted to tell todays youth something real, he should tell them that they are effing up and that it's not ok. He should tell them so that they don't have to "read between the lines", because let's face it, they didn't get a good enough education to do so. In short, it's called counter-productive!

F1nut

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

11-21-2002, 08:25 AM

...the recording of eminem's albums, are recorded that way, bright, and very bassy, thats what its suposed to be, and i dont like the recording either, but it brings out the music when played loud -- but then u got artists like disturbed, that have pretty much no treble and barely ne bass in their music -- now thats annoying....

Micah Cohen

11-21-2002, 01:25 PM

If eminem rapped about M&Ms, what the song title be?

pensacola

11-21-2002, 02:03 PM

>>If eminem rapped about M&Ms, what the song title be?

Probably something along the lines of:

"My Mother F***ing M&M's Melted in my Bitch-Slappin' Hands"

or...

"I Grew Up On M&M's 'Cause I Wuz a Po' White Boy (and my
bitch mom couldn't afford real food)"

or...

"Don'-Ya Know M&M's Melt in Yo Hand and Make Holdin' a Glock
Tougher Than a Mother F***er"

phuz

11-21-2002, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by pensacola

===Here's a good read on the subject by Bill O'Reilly:
http://www.billoreilly.com/site/product?pid=10030

Ok I'm really sorry but that was about the most pathetic, ignorant, conservative drivel that I have seen in a long time. Nothing personal against pensacola, but Mr. Oreilly knows about as much about todays youth and music culture as I do about being a TV talk show host.

I'm really sad to see so many people letting the point fly WAY over their heads. Stop looking at single words and phrases and take a look at the big picture.

My original point is that people like Mr. Oreilly are the ones who can't read between the lines. Eminem's fans get it, it's his critics who don't.

Again I don't mean to offend but I just can't see how someone could equate Eminem with the KKK or child porn. So then Kiss must be a satanic rock group huh? Ozzy Ozbourne must be evil? How about Clive Barker, he's got to be evil and bad because he writes twisted horror movies? Oh man, and that John Denver guy - can't let anyone listen to his stuff because he smoked some pot.

I found this especially interesting.

"But unlike Elvis the legacy Mathers will leave is one that will injure many children especially those without much parental guidance."

This is one big part of Eminem's message. WHERE ARE THE PARENTS?

Injure children? I dunno about you all, but for me music is and always has been theraputic. Hundreds of hours I've spent after school, with my headphones on, listening to some of my favorite bands/whatever. It always made me feel better. It let me know that someone else was out there who had simmilar experiences and feelings that I did at the time. It was an excape from the daily deadening crap that most kids/teens go through on a daily basis.

"Eminem has left his calling card as well. Two New York City grammar school teachers told me that it is not uncommon for ten year old boys to call the little girls in their classes “bitches” and “ho’s” (whores)."

OH COME ON. We did that 15 years ago too. Long before Eminem. WEAK. Think back to your school days, didn't you do the same thing pretty much? Maybe different words, but boys will be boys right?

Again, how can someone blame Eminem? WHERE ARE THE PARENTS?

I'm not saying you have to like him or his music, but the whole KKK/Porn thing kinda set me off. I don't even own any of his CD's. I just think he doesn't deserve the bad 'rap' that he gets all of the time. He is an artist in every sense of the word.

Ok I'm done for now. Sorry for the weak areguments but it's tough to put together good stuff when I'm trying to get some work done. ;)

TroyD

11-21-2002, 02:35 PM

phuz makes a very salient point in that it's silly to blame the ills of society on anybody. As a society, we've been doing that for many many years. The point is, and I think it's a good one, is individuals need to take responsibilty for thier actions. If you are a parent, act like one. If your kid get's screwed up, it's not the fault of TV, M&M or Dear Abby.

My original point is that Marshall is an asshole, not the ruination of society.

BDT

phuz

11-21-2002, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by TroyD

My original point is that Marshall is an asshole, not the ruination of society.

BDT

Thanks Troy, and I can't really disagree with ya on that point. He's an ass, but I also think he's hillarious. :)

Micah Cohen

11-21-2002, 03:19 PM

I hesitate to get into this fray, but I need clarification on a point right quick.

>> He's an ass, but I also think he's hillarious. <<

Is he a serious musician, an artist, or is he a novelty act? Is he on par with Weird Al Yankovic, or is he doing stuff that you're not supposed to laugh at? I don't understand this defense of today's music: that "it's funny." Is it comedy music? Is it a parody of real music? When you listen to it, do you actually laugh? Out loud?

phuz

11-21-2002, 03:42 PM

I do indeed laugh out loud at some of his stuff. His first hit single "My Name Is" was effin hillarious. I cracked the eff up the first time I heard this song.

"My English teacher wanted to flunk me in junior high
Thanks a lot, next semester I'll be 35"

"Ninety-nine percent of my life I was lied to
I just found out my mom does more dope than I do (Damn!)
I told her I'd grow up to be a famous rapper
Make a record about doin drugs and name it after her (Oh thank you!)"

I think too many people take it too seriously. He has this cynical and very sarcastic sense of humor, which I think is much better than the blatant weird al or other 'comedy music.'

Some of the humor is a little sick, but it's still humor and it shouldn't be taken so seriously.

Zero

11-21-2002, 04:06 PM

Agreed Phuz.

Ah well, I still have my cd, and in between the horrible recording, I enjoy the actual songs.... will be rockin' this when Im old and hopefully ... not conservative .. lol

Sean

pensacola

11-21-2002, 04:35 PM

I don't think anyone is blaming Eminem for... anything.
I'll defend his right to say or rap any ol' thing he likes.

The problem isn't so much what he says--it's that people are
actually listening. And mostly impressionable youth. And yes,
it is parents' responsibility to monitor their kid's influences--as
much as humanly possible. And yes, absentee parents are
a big problem.

Preach to poor urban kids that the police are bad, whites are
holding down blacks, etc, etc, and they eventually believe it.
And voila! Another generation of kids who are programmed to
believe all the BS their adult influences have permitted to
sink into their little fertile minds. They can look forward to a
life of negativity and hatred--of themselves and others.

We can't solve the world's problems in a day, but pointing out
good and bad when we see it is a start. And pointing out
that maybe Eminem's message isn't exactly what we want
our kids listening to, that maybe there are more reasonable
messages to impart on them, isn't so extreme.

The fact is, that parents who accept their responsibility of parenting today aren't much different than their counterparts
40 years ago. The difference today, is that it is much more
common (and easy) to simply have kids and NOT accept the
responsibilty for them. Hillary is wrong--it does NOT take a
village to raise a child. It is NOT the village's responsibility.
And no, I didn't call girls bitches or whores when I was 10.
I hadn't heard those words yet. But that's not why I didn't
call them those names. It's because I knew better--even at 10.

It's this "moral relativism"--nothing's really right or wrong, black
or white; everything's a gray area--that leads to people taking
up for Eminem or Louis Farakhan. They both may have something
positive to say, but their negative message discredits their
sincerity and entire message--whatever that message may be.

My point about the KKK was this: that no one in their right mind
would admit to agreeing with their philosophy because it is so
far out of mainstream thinking. The same should hold true
with reference to Eminiem, but we have been conditioned in
our society that we need to try to understand Eminem, that
nothing is black or white anymore--we need to read between
the lines to "get" his message. I'm not falling for it. I'm not
gonna drink that koolaid.