An audiophile new year....

[TroyD]

..as is my habit around times such as this, I'm given to a bit of introspection and rambling....

I've thought a good deal lately about my 'journey', if you will, through audiophilia starting back with a Denon receiver and Polk RT7 based HT rig up through the current Quad/analog based rig currently in the Shane Mann Memorial Auditorium. The one thing that strikes me is that I've never had a rig that disliked. Maybe it wasn't what I wanted or what not, but I've enjoyed each and every step of the way.

By the same token, I've enjoyed listening to other peoples rigs too (isn't it funny how you tend to be more impressed or less critical of others than your own). As I've said, my high water mark was listening to 'The Truth' at Georges. Hell, it was great listening to Russ's B&W 601's/Nad pre/Carver cube/ADC cd player wired up with Signal Cable IC's and 16awg lamp cord. Esoteric? Nope but DAMN fun to listen to. RT1's woodshed rig to Abernathy's SDA's to F1's high tone MF/SDA rig. I've enjoyed each and every one.

Along the way, I found my sound....and trust me, I've done the emulation thing. Amazings/AR9's/SDA...the whole gamut. When I listened to the Quads, it was game over. I found IT. My sound. I'm lucky. I'd describe my rig as entry level high end. The Quads/Melos/Sony SCD-555ES were all Stereophile Class 'A' (not that I take that as important, it just is)....the Heathkit W5M's, I've not heard amps that sound better at any price and the VPI table was, IIRC, Stereophile class 'B'. So, I'm comfortable saying entry level high end.

So, where am I going with this? Honestly, I don't know. I was reading an issue of Stereophile and then an issue of TAS (thanks Joe!) and something struck me. We audio nuts are a bitchy, argumentative and downright hostile at times, bunch. So, my question was/is: Why? Part of it is that we take things too personally. Many of us have some serious coinage in our gear and we take that personally. While we do it for our own gratification for the most part, we also want that peer recognition and validation. When someone doesn't give that or, worse, says our doesn't think our gear is as good as we think it is, we get bitchy.

The audio press doesn't help matters either. Want to see a writer just go into defense mode? Write a letter questioning his rating or the validity of his review. Shit, Fremer goes absolutely scorched earth. The rest aren't far behind. How DARE us rank amateurs question one of the THEM?

Audiophiles tend to make WAAAAAY too much over the overall importance of our hobby. If you have a Bose Wave Radio and don't mind the sound? Jeeze, you think that the person that said probably spends thier spare time on a beach in Thailand chasing 11 year old boys.

While I'll be the first to admit that I like to pull the occaisional chain here on the forum (mantis/liv4fam/faster100/Jstas/CL35/ etc etc) so I'm as guilty as anyone......isn't all this REALLY kind of silly, if you think about it? Now, this is NOT a Rodney King 'can't we all just get along' as I do enjoy the occaisonal scorched earth event. (Sorry skarvan, you are still a rat)...it's just an observation that they are silly. Perhaps that's why I enjoy them so, because I find them funny.

Anyhow, just an observation. I LIKE the fact that I'm not completely rational when it comes to audio. I LIKE the fact that I can come here and tell dick and fart jokes with my buddies and sometimes act like a teenager. I think others enjoy it too, even the audio writers. The real world is a serious place, if we put the same amount of seriousness into audio we'd be like Fremer, or worse, skarvan (THREE out of FOUR stars!).

Anyhow, that's my New Year Audiophile Manifesto......enjoy the hobby, have a great new year. ESL's, vinyl and tubes RULE. If you don't think so, you suck, you got tin ears and your Mom wears combat boots and owns a Bose 321 system. Meet me outside after the bell rings and we'll rumble.

BDT

[RuSsMaN]

ESL, vinyl and tubes.

THAT sounds like a plan.

[reeltrouble1]

You touch on some very key points Troy. I would like to echo the comments about listening to other rigs. Dropping by to visit members and going to Polkfests lets you hear other quality rigs, of course you will compare that sound to your own, you learn things based on what you hear not read or listen to in a demo room on the short term and it also gives way to the validation you mentioned. It also forms the bases for the Club, weaving a fabric of sound we can identify with and cementing friendships.

I am looking forward to a new Audio Year in the shed, the big priority being a new cartridge and of course purchasing more music.

RT1

[TroyD]

ESL, vinyl and tubes.

THAT sounds like a plan.


For that pure tone...that does it for me.

No, I don't have 'leasebreaker bass' nor will my rig play at aurally traumatizing volumes but I've NEVER heard such transparent pure tone.

It ain't for everyone, but it does it for me. Plus, it's nice to be off the gear merry go round. The added bonus is it frees up a lot more time/cash to chase music worth listening too.

BDT

[heiney9]

RT hits the nail on the head. I enjoy our little get together's in my neck of the woods with other Polkies. It's a great time to bond, check out other gear in other settings and to just generally talk face to face about our hobby. I look forward to possibly expanding beyond the "neighborhood" in 2008 and I'll be dammed; I'm making PF '08 this year.

H9

[TroyD]

Dammit, I hate it when my posts don't post!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Anyway, I think the Polkie gatherings (along with being Polk fans in the first place) are one reason that we don't have the flame fests over gear (we just have them over other shit). I think we have developed and appreciation and respect for the gear that we each enjoy. While it may not be what blows our skirt up, we can at least appreciate what others see in it.

BDT

[F1nut]

Say it, HAAAAAAAAARRRRR!



skarvan, you suck.

[TroyD]

ACK, PFFFFFFFFFFFFTT

I just spit water all over my screen.

BDT

[hearingimpared]

Well I couldn't agree more with you guys. There is a piece to the puzzle of this hobby that must be present IMO for one to get the full effect, that is, the camaraderie and the opportunity to listen to your fellow audiophile's rigs. Had I not heard Phil's, F1nut's, Ted's, Antny's etc rigs and had a whole slew of Polkies come here this, number one, wouldn't have been as much fun and number two, I would never have heard the "greener grass" on the other side.

When I got back from Polkfest, after driving with Jesse & Mike, approximately 14 hours and arriving home around 4:00 AM I didn't go to bed, no, I went into the music room to listen to the LP of "Shine on You Crazy Diamond" to see if it sounded like what I heard in Ted's Woodshed. It did, it sounded great, however something was missing. I went to bed with that thought. I woke up the next day and skipped the coffee and breakfast and went directly to the music room and played the same piece over and over until I could pinpoint what was different. This is what I consider to be another fun part of this hobby, not just listening to music but "troubleshooting" the music so as to achieve that tonal perfection or as close to tonal perfection and weight of the instruments and music overall.

Becoming open minded about things that I had stuck in my psyche was very difficult. There wasn't a person in the world who could convince me that ANY digital could produce the engaging enticement of a decent or just plain well set-up analog rig. Until I went and heard a high end digital rig in friend's homes.

I remember sitting in my music back in February listening to my newly setup rig and just beaming over the sound. I hadn't set up the analog rig yet but I was literally in haze of euphoria that I was listening to music on a rig again, digital or not. Once I set up the analog rig however, my eff digital attitude came right back. It didn't take long though for the audiophile part of my personality and developed ear, as well as, being a member of this forum to realize that it can be better.

Since then I've spend a lot of money, time and emotion developing and improving the tonal qualities of my rig. I've found it. I've even had to stop saying, "vinyl rules, digital sucks."

I have both the analog and digital (more on that later) nirvana I've been striving for in less than a year.

The problem now is that I've been listening to all kinds of speakers and am starting to wonder if I should even consider going there. The thing is that each time I come back to my SDAs I feel that I don't need to go any further. Then I go out to a high end boutique and get that same itch again.

The best thing about this whole knurled business is that my wife is right there in middle of it with me . . . maybe not as obsessively but in the mix none-the-less.

I've been fortunate to be able to spend the coinage necessary to build this rig, brick by brick, component by component and I wish the same for all Polkies. I've had some very well received and reviewed pieces of gear in my rig and I thought it sounded like shit. Then I've done something or purchased another and felt that BAM! that's it feeling. It only works when you get to hear it in your rig.

[TroyD]

Good on you, bro.

Sort of like F1, while I don't see him rolling with a turntable anytime soon....I was pleasantly surprised/shocked to hear him begrudgingly admit that vinyl did sound pretty damn good. Again, I think it's just getting a different slant on things.

In regards to YOUR situation with the SDA's....that's a tough one. Unless you spend a lot more coin, your moves will likely be more 'lateral' than anything. The sound will be different but I don't know that it will be better. IMHO, SDA's do so many things well that I can't think of a dynamic speaker that I like all that much better (without taking out a second mortgage...if that's the case B&W 800D, here I come). For me, I'm a planar/stat guy, that's my thing. Not 'better' or 'worse'...just different.

BDT

[SCompRacer]

I've even had to stop saying, "vinyl rules, digital sucks."


The earth has tilted....I'm gonna have a grabber...I remember how you thought my listening tastes were so focked after sending you that ModWright 999ES that Carl loves. :D Maybe synergy is all important. Maybe to some I am focked. But I don't care cause ESL's, digital, vinyl and tube/SS combos rule here.

Happy Audiophile New Year to all.

[hearingimpared]

Good on you, bro.

Sort of like F1, while I don't see him rolling with a turntable anytime soon....I was pleasantly surprised/shocked to hear him begrudgingly admit that vinyl did sound pretty damn good. Again, I think it's just getting a different slant on things.

In regards to YOUR situation with the SDA's....that's a tough one. Unless you spend a lot more coin, your moves will likely be more 'lateral' than anything. The sound will be different but I don't know that it will be better. IMHO, SDA's do so many things well that I can't think of a dynamic speaker that I like all that much better (without taking out a second mortgage...if that's the case B&W 800D, here I come). For me, I'm a planar/stat guy, that's my thing. Not 'better' or 'worse'...just different.

BDT




Thanks Bro.

I've been listening to lots & lots of speakers lately. There are two sets that get that itch going.

The first is here (http://www.questforsound.com/speakers/spkrs_hyperionHPS.htm) They are the Hyperion's HPS-938 they go for around $5K. Very natural sounding, excellent tonal qualities, and a very very wide sound stage. Of course I haven't heard them in my rig but compared to all the others I've listened to including LsI 15/25s they are right there.

The other and I can't say enough about these speakers are JAS Audio Odin Floor Standing Speaker (http://www.questforsound.com/speakers/spkrs_jas.htm), the fifth one down. They go for $8K and are superb sounding. The ceramic drivers are so fast and they just disappear into the thin air. The bass response on these are gut shaking.

So after listening to a lot a speakers these two just get that itch going. However, I get home and the SDAs shout, "NOT SO FAST THERE FAT BOY!" and I'm latched right back onto them.

[hearingimpared]

The earth has tilted....I'm gonna have a grabber...I remember how you thought my listening tastes were so focked after sending you that ModWright 999ES that Carl loves. :D Maybe synergy is all important. Maybe to some I am focked. But I don't care cause ESL's, digital, vinyl and tube/SS combos rule here.

Happy Audiophile New Year to all.

Rich you are correct about the synergy. I've found that my Spectral does not like tube CDPs. I don't understand it but it is what it is.

I would love to hear that ModWright 999ES connected to the Tri Vista.

[treitz3]

To me, synergy is THE single most "component", if you will, in one's rig. It can make a 10K rig sound like shit, then again it can make a budget rig sound wonderful. Of course, that's just my opinion.

[TroyD]

Excellent point (gee this is turning out to be a cool discussion)......in my case, while I was waiting on my Heathkits, I was using a big Classe amp with the Quads/Melos. While it didn't sound like crap...it didn't have the magic that tube amps bring to Quads.

BDT

[Early B.]

I've changed out ICs and said, "WOW!!!". Then the next day I could hardly remember why the ICs sounded so much better than what they replaced. I think the same phenomena occurs with any change we make. At first, it sounds great, then it quickly becomes our new baseline, and eventually, we think it can sound better, so we "upgrade" again simply for that momentary Wow factor. It's kinda like spending a bunch of time and money wooing a woman just so you can get a moment of pure satisfaction. Shortly afterwards, it's time to do it all over again. Then what happens is you get married to the same "system" and it's great, but after a while, you start thinking about replacement gear (i.e., boob job, tummy tuck, etc.) so you can get the magic back into your relationship.

Do they make amps with big boobs?

[SCompRacer]

Rich you are correct about the synergy. I've found that my Spectral does not like tube CDPs. I don't understand it but it is what it is.







I still fondly recall the fellow that came to buy my Silver Amazings. After the demo and we got them boxed and loaded up, he asked if he could hear my ESL’s. 45 seconds into the demo with his CD, while Stephanie Grappelli's strings were touching my soul, he said he didn’t like them and wondered aloud how I could sell the Amazings. Obviously we had different tastes, and he may never own an ESL speaker. But at least he experienced them. We parted on good terms and he even gave me his demo CD as a gift.

Roger Sanders told me while I liked the sound of my tube powered ESL's, it was not what he considered hi fidelity. We swapped amps and he did power and distortion tests on my tubes while I demo'd his SS amp. I had tried various SS amps before and was surprised to expereince a neutral and cozy warm sound along with better bass and highs. But no matter what his measurements showed, I still liked the sound of his ESL's with the TAD tube amps.

It is all good Joe. I like how you have ventured out of your comfort zone to experience other offerings. You remain a valued and trusted friend. And while I was never totally out of vinyl, you did fuel my urge to get deeper into it. For that, I’ll never forgive you….:p:D

[TroyD]

I'm still kicking my ass for not bagging those Silvers.

Different strokses for left handed people, you know? And this sort of harkens back to the discussion about J. Gordon Holt's comments about the high end. I don't really care if my rig is what he would consider faithful to high end reproduction. I LOVE the way it sounds. I don't care what Holt or anyone else thinks. I don't think we should all be persuing one 'standard' sound, we should persue the one that WE like.

BDT

[hearingimpared]

Here's an interesting turn of events. When my Spectral needed to go into the shop, Antny had lent me his VTL 2.5 line stage pre. It was my first foray into tubes in this rig and I friggin loved it, everything about it. The only problem was that it didn't have a phono pre. So in the spirit of trying to achieve the sound I had heard at Jesse's month before (June 3rd to be exact when we did my crossovers) I went searching for another VTL pre. I had read the dazzeling reviews about the VTL TL 5.5 and found one on the gon that also had a phono pre.

I bought it and put it in the rig! I hated it!!!! It was bass shy, no weight to the instruments or music, although it did have the clarity that was being touted in the reviews it was far from giving me any kind of spiritual experience. The phono stage absolutely sucked really bad. I rolled some tubes in at the suggestion of another Polkie and while it did improve the music, in my book it still didn't do it for me. The funny thing is that I spoke to Luke Manley and nothing he suggested helped the situation for me.

Don't get me wrong here I am not downing VTL, the proof of that is I loved the 2.5.

I sold it and after trying several other preamps, I resigned myself to the fact that I needed to get that sound that I heard from Jesse's Tri Vista.

I tried blackmailing him with pictures I had taken of him getting his hair cut, I even tried the nude picture thing but he would have none of it. It took the SACD player taking a dump to get him to even consider selling it to me.

I put that beautiful piece of gear in my rig and BAM!~ there was that tone. Saxes sounded like saxes, vocals were right on, the bass ahh yes it was all there.

The more I hear tubed pre with sand amps the more I like them.

HOW-FRIGGIN-EVER!!!

I heard, several times, a JAS Audio Array 2.1 tube integrated/power amplifier, 45 wpc and I can't believe the balls and accuracy on coming off this fully tubed integrated.

I have to stop listening to that thing!:o

[Jstas]

I honestly don't give a damn what everyone else likes, I like what I like! Most of my multiple rigs and piles of equipment has either been bought on the cheap (sometimes super cheap), given to me 'cause it was broken and I fixed it or it was traded for some goods or service I had that someone else needed. I have a mighty mite rig that cost me less than $300 and when it's assembled in original form, it tends to floor people because it looks like hell but just performs. Then there are the Amazings that even non-audio-junkies find impressive or just insane. What's even better is it sounds just as impressive as it looks.

This hobby isn't about the gear or even the music. It's about people and sharing the music with people. I have alot of know-how and technical knowledge in electronics and this is a way for me to apply my skills and talents so they don't waste away. What's so great about that is the chances I have had to help others from just giving a how-to on wiring up a car to a primer on solid subwoofer box construction. I've even had the opportunity to actually do installations for other members of the Club here. The gear is cool, music is just in my blood but the most rewarding part is seeing the smiles on someone else's face when they get something that they wanted working but it fully exceeds their expectations and I got the honor of helping them do that! That's awesome right there!

I'll geek out on all the specs and talk all kinds of shop and argue until I'm blue in the face about stuff just like everyone else but when it comes down to it, I have abilities and knowledge that others don't necessarily have in the same depth or in the same areas. The only way knowledge becomes wisdom is if you can apply and share that knowledge with others. The thing I enjoy most about this hobby is that chance to share and show others what I know and maybe teach them something and get the chance to learn something from them. The ultimate goal is to get incredible sound and as close to life music as I can but the people you meet and the friends you make on the way are where the REAL fun is.

So I may be OK with gear right now. I don't have an upgrade bug at all until I get a new vehicle or something. But I'm not going to stop being interested and I'm riding on the edge of the "upgrade merry go round" and I'll probably stay there. Mainly because the gear is neat but the chance to meet someone with similar interests is always there if I'm looking for the next cool thing. It may not be better but it's different and a new experience with a new face to meet and a new friend to make. I've met alot of people from this hobby and not just from this site. Some are assholes, most are awesome. But all of them are experiences that I wouldn't give up for the world.

I mean, after all, if there weren't people with ears to listen to this stuff, there wouldn't be all this gear lying around. Everybody says that the media, the cables, the gear, the speakers, the installation...etc, is the most important part of it all. Well, they're all wrong. The most important part is the people and they are as varied and numerous as the piles of gear that are out there in their garages. I'd never meet most of them if it wasn't for those piles of gear that I might be interested in. So I'll stay on that merry go round and I'll jump at the chance to go rifle through someone else's pile of junk and get a chance to make a new buddy over a CD player, or a pre-amp or an amplifier or a set of speakers. After all, it's not what you're doing that is so much fun but the people you are doing it with and if you're doing it with good people, you can't help but have a freaking blast doing it!

[Normanality]

Joe, you have NO idea what a bad influence you've been. ;)

On Rich that is! I would never have believed how sweet vinyl could sound after all these years, and thanks to Rich spending all that $$, I can once again. Now, if I need a fix, I can drop by his place and enjoy vinyl, tubes, and ESLs :D

For me, 2008 is a year where I put convenience before audio nirvana.
Health issues, rising costs and all that jazz have put things in perspective.
That said, I'm selling my highly touted Modwright 9100 CDP and Modwright tubed preamp and have gone over to the dark side.

I had Wayne at Boulder mod me a SB3, and I ripped 300 cds lossless into my putie. While not audiophilia, I'm surprised how damn close it comes to it while I can enjoy my music library without opening jewel cases, record cleaners or having to get out of my lazyboy at 3am just to play something different. The front end may be a little weak, but the backend with good amps and ESLs do the trick.

With any luck, I'll be able to meet up with some of you at a gathering or two.
Until then, here's hoping everyone has a Happy and Healthy New Year.

[cfrizz]

Great thread, and once again Troy's last post puts it away!!!

Have a safe & Happy New Year Troy!

[hearingimpared]

Joe, you have NO idea what a bad influence you've been. ;)

On Rich that is! I would never have believed how sweet vinyl could sound after all these years, and thanks to Rich spending all that $$, I can once again. Now, if I need a fix, I can drop by his place and enjoy vinyl, tubes, and ESLs :D

For me, 2008 is a year where I put convenience before audio nirvana.
Health issues, rising costs and all that jazz have put things in perspective.
That said, I'm selling my highly touted Modwright 9100 CDP and Modwright tubed preamp and have gone over to the dark side.

I had Wayne at Boulder mod me a SB3, and I ripped 300 cds lossless into my putie. While not audiophilia, I'm surprised how damn close it comes to it while I can enjoy my music library without opening jewel cases, record cleaners or having to get out of my lazyboy at 3am just to play something different. The front end may be a little weak, but the backend with good amps and ESLs do the trick.

With any luck, I'll be able to meet up with some of you at a gathering or two.
Until then, here's hoping everyone has a Happy and Healthy New Year.

Thanks Norm, Rich was the catalyst to get me thinking about digital when he lent me his Sony ModWright. In my rig it sounded awful!!! However Rich kept telling me how awesome it sounded in his rig then I shipped it to Carl and he was waxing awesome too. My first thought was, "there is something wrong with my rig!" After that I just started questioning and searching and then Ted and Jesse really got me going full storm on getting a very good digital front end.


BTW you gotta do what you gotta do and going to a "weaker" front end maybe just the thing you need to get some serenity!

I hope you health problems diminish in 2008 Norm and it is good to see you posting.

[SCompRacer]

I'm still kicking my ass for not bagging those Silvers.




And me for selling them. For just their condition alone, I should have made a place for them here. I can still see the grill cloth over the woofers sucking in and out when I cranked them up… Not to mention the WAF was much higher than the Black monoliths.

Joe, you have NO idea what a bad influence you've been. ;)

It makes me happy to see Joe finally getting the blame he deserves

for my weakness.:D

For me, 2008 is a year where I put convenience before audio nirvana.


This saddens me greatly my friend, but priority number one is you getting and staying healthy. I’ll be stopping over soon to hear the modded SB3.

[madmax]

Everyone likes something different. My current system has way more flaws (some pretty serious) than my previous setup but I'm enjoying the sound WAY more than I ever did before and listening time has gone way up. Go figure...
madmax

[halo]

This saddens me greatly my friend, but priority number one is you getting and staying healthy. I'm right there with you on this.

I still can't thank you enough Norm.

Almost everything in my rig started with you, followed by Rich, and finaly, begrudgingly, trickled down to me.

Amazes me that my wife is on board also. It sounds that good. Anytime I think about making a change she tells me I'm nuts and that if I change anything I'm going to regret it.

I still have accesss to the VR-2's and the AR-2ax's. Love to have you over again Norm (and any other Polkies for that matter). A lot has changed since your last visit (it's all good and it's all your fault) :)

I had a blast at the Chicagoland PF. It is all about the community and the comradarie here.

I ain't getting into vinyl. It sounds fan-tas-tic but I have neither the funds nor the time.

All the best in '08 everyone!

[hearingimpared]

I honestly don't give a damn what everyone else likes, I like what I like!

That is true to an extent but I've found in many get-togethers with Polkies that there are some who hear as I do and those people, I find their feedback on gear and input to me on gear, very valuable when I am narrowing down field of gear to seriously consider.

[hearingimpared]

I ain't getting into vinyl. It sounds fan-tas-tic but I have neither the funds nor the time.



"Oh make time consigliere" . . . Virgil "The Turk" Sollozzo . . . The Godfather

[madmax]

I ain't getting into vinyl. It sounds fan-tas-tic but I have neither the funds nor the time.


Well this just will not do. You find the time and the funds mister.

Well, someone had to say it. :D
madmax

[tonyb]

" Love to have you over again Norm (and any other Polkies for that matter). A lot has changed since your last visit (it's all good and it's all your fault) "


Well hells bells,grab a kegger and set a date.:D

[treitz3]

That is true to an extent but I've found in many get-togethers with Polkies that there are some who hear as I do and those people, I find their feedback on gear and input to me on gear, very valuable when I am narrowing down field of gear to seriously consider.
That, my friend is PRICELESS as you can't possibly have the time to audition everything on the market and how a certain component works with let's say....another.

Unless you are quite rich and retired, that is.

[halo]

" Love to have you over again Norm (and any other Polkies for that matter). A lot has changed since your last visit (it's all good and it's all your fault) "


Well hells bells,grab a kegger and set a date.:DMy place ain't that big! But your welcome to stop by :) (you get to do all the heavy lifting).

[I-SIG]

I want to do something high-end this year. Not sure what it is yet, though I'm leaning Cary on the front-end or back-end. I also want to get some big SDA's that I can run non-common ground amps with. I can at least do that and more or less break even. And I'm gonna do room treatsments, pretty early on this year too.

Anyway, the thing that bugs me about my rig is that I'm confident I have a pretty high level of synergy going (and maybe even high-end sound or something really close???), but I feel like I'm still leaving a lot on the table and thus not listening as much I think I should. I'm not sure what the way out of this dilemma is. Since I'm running Parasound amps, for instance, the easy way out is to get the 2 Halo equivalents and be done with it. I usually hate taking the easy way out of things. :)

Wes