Tales of the Furutech Flattener

[schwarcw]

The Furutech Flattener Consortium was formed to make it economically practical for 9 or so Forum members, to use the Furutech Record Flattener. Since it’s debut at the Georgia Polkfest, about four of us had the opportunity to use it in our home environment. I thought I’d share a little of my experiences. Any of the other Consortium members who have used the flattener are welcome to add their experiences to this thread. Here is a stock photo:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p97/schwarcw/Furutech.jpg
My first encounter with the flattener was at the Georgia Polkfest. We unwrapped the briefcase size machine and immediately put it to work. We put it through the heating/cooling cycle (1 hour heat, 2 hours cool) on several of Ted’s LPs. The flattener successfully flattened out small warpage. The records played without any evidence of residual damage from the flattening process. Then we tried it on an album that was hideously warped, (kind of a leper in Ted’s vinyl collection) this album was so warped it could not have played. To our amazement, after one cycle the record played! The grooves were still, well groovy but the fact that the needle tracked at all was amazing.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p97/schwarcw/Furutech2.jpg
I used the machine at my house to flatten about 10 LPs. I cleaned the records with my Nitty Gritty before inserting them into the machine. In all cases, the flattener was able to remove small warps without any problem. I didn’t observe any sonic effects or notice any “baked in” clicks or pops. I did not try the machine on any heavy vinyl.
I took the machine over to analog97’s house to service a few LPs while we listened to some tunes. Larry was generous enough to take a few photo’s and add his observations:
“Several LP’s were flattened that had "minimal-moderate" warpage. This is defined as a raised area not exceeding approximately 1/8" from the platter. These LP's were new or SOS "sealed old stock" and presumably warped from either temperature extremes during shipping or constriction of shrink-wrap during years of storage. Two were 180 gram vinyl. Results were outstanding. In all cases these LP's laid flat on the platter after the Furutech treatment. No audible sound impact.
Several LP's had moderate warpage, defined as a raised area exceeding 1/8"-1/4" imposing some difficulty in tracking with noticible tone-arm wobble. After treatment, significant improvement was noticed. However, as record warp approached about 1/4", results were not perfect, i.e. the record still had some, but far less, wobble. For LP's with moderate warpage as defined, the results are really quite exceptional.
One LP was unplayable (see pictures) on my Rega P3/2000-RB300 combination. The serious record warp at the edge would not permit the tonearm to swing on the rcord. This amount of warpage was probably about 3/8” at the edge. After treatment, about 90% of the warp was removed and rendered the LP very playable, but there was still some wobble, under 1/8” I’d estimate. I tried a second treatment and gained another 5% improvement. (see ‘after’ pictures) The final result was just a tad better after a second treatment, so I’m not sure if a second treatment should be recommended.”
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p97/schwarcw/warped_lp.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p97/schwarcw/flattenedlp.jpg

Overall, this product grades out at a solid “A”. The only drawback is the $1,500 investment. If you own enough vinyl that is damaged and/or is irreplaceable, then this machine may be worth the investment. Bottom line, it works! If you have enough warped vinyl, but it!

[BaggedLancer]

Cool product. What a price tag though. By the looks of it in person, does it look like something you can duplicate for cheaper using your own parts?

[vonnie123]

nice info, thanks

[treitz3]

BaggedLancer, no.

[BaggedLancer]

Come on, there has to be a way to make one treitz! The chinese would have that done in 20 minutes.

[hearingimpared]

Cool product. What a price tag though. By the looks of it in person, does it look like something you can duplicate for cheaper using your own parts?

$1500 is the price. There are several who have come up with methods of flattening vinyl. One is the two pieces of plate glass in the oven. Noone knows the correct temperature and something tells me it would flatten the grooves out.

This flattener heats the record while it is on a spindle in the vertical postion and to my knoweldge NOTHING touches the grooves while heating. The heating is done, I believe, on the label and groove guard thus keeping the grooves from being distorted.

This thing works very well.

[BaggedLancer]

By the looks of it you can tell it works great....I was just thinking for the more frugal people.


Someone should put a thermocouple in that thing and see what temp it heats the vinyl to.

[treitz3]

Come on, there has to be a way to make one treitz! The chinese would have that done in 20 minutes.
I dunno man. This was/is a well built machine with probably lots of research done to insure that it did not damage the LP.

For the same effect on a budget you could get two pieces of glass and a heavy weight that fit in the diameter of the label and set it out in the sunlight for a day or two. That's the redneck way of doing it from what I understand.

I wouldn't trust my LP's sounding the same though.

[danger boy]

just microwave your records till they flatten out :p

[BaggedLancer]

haha i bet the stink would be awful.

[reeltrouble1]

Good write up Carl and I concur with the class A rating, we need a little consortium emblem to put our stamp on it!!!!! waaaaaaaaa

I now look for warped records, got a couple doozies to try when she comes my way next time.

RT1

[wingnut4772]

Man that's pretty steep. I would rather play the odds of finding the album in good condition for $1.00 at the Goodwill.

[SCompRacer]

Nice write up Carl. I added a column to my Excel LP listings sheet to identify the warped ones. I have several that need flattening. A couple of them even challenge The Clamp, requiring multiple shims to be playable.

In regards to flattening LP's between glass in an oven, there are some threads at the Vinyl Asylum that describe various attempts. Time and temperature all varied as did the results. I don't have the time for my own trail and error oven methods. The well engineered approach is expensive, but appears to deliver good results. Good thing we have our little consortium.

[danger boy]

so tell me this. how do albums become warped anyways? I've got a small stack of about 40 albums and none of them are warped. they are all 20+ years old too. or do you all buy warped ones then flatten em? I'm trying to understand how so many people could have warped vinyl. :confused:

[Ricardo]

Thanks for the review Carl; I have a couple dozen records waiting to be flattened. Most have minor warpes, but there's a couple that are unplayable. I will do the before/after filming to post here.

[SCompRacer]

Manufacturing defects, improper curing at the press plant, improper storage and excessively tight plastic shrinkwrap on the covers are reasons for warpage. Thinner LP’s are much more prone to warping.

[schwarcw]

Thanks for your remarks!

If any Consortium member has a digital camera, it would be nice to get some before and after video!!

[SCompRacer]

I will do the before/after filming to post here.


I don't have video capability here, but I will take some before and after pics too.

[ben62670]

Cd's don't warp:p

[analog97]

I will do the before/after filming to post here.

I don't have video capability here, but I will take some before and after pics too.

Hey guys...I found it quite difficult to get decent digital before/after pictures. The only way I found that was 1/2 way decent was to try a 'straight shot' at the rim of the TT. Hopefully, someone can get a better comparison series than I was able to get. The Furutech is really a very impressive device. I hope someboby can capture that big wobble better than I did...

[SCompRacer]

My worst warp is on a Chicago VIII LP. (Even worse than my Thriller, which The Clamp makes playable). The Chicago LP distorts in an awful way when I shim and clamp it, making it unplayable. IIRC this was a garage sale LP Carl picked up for me. Other than the warp, the LP, jacket, sleeve, wall poster and iron on transfer are near mint so I would love to salvage this LP.

[analog97]

Scomp,

Excellent picture. My experience with the Furutech says that record of yours will be pretty damn flat and playable. Your picture is better than mine, but both our records were warped to about the same degree. Mine improved about 90-95%, as I said, but was not perfect.

[madmax]

so tell me this. how do albums become warped anyways? I've got a small stack of about 40 albums and none of them are warped. they are all 20+ years old too. or do you all buy warped ones then flatten em? I'm trying to understand how so many people could have warped vinyl. :confused:

I've bought a few that were warped. The only ones I warped myself were ones I put in a record box which did not have the walls clear to the top of the record. It left about 2" sticking out of the top of the box where a lid covered them. Every one of the records stored in this box were warped. This was at a constant 70 degree storage temp.

madmax

[schwarcw]

My worst warp is on a Chicago VIII LP. (Even worse than my Thriller, which The Clamp makes playable).

Fear not! These LPs will live again!

But not for another day as the Furutech is still on the Fedex truck in Grove City, OH:(

[hearingimpared]

Cd's don't warp:p

Yes but your mind is!

[analog97]

Flat-earthers prefer the Furutech 3 to 1....

[halo]

My worst warp is on a Chicago VIII LP. (Even worse than my Thriller, which The Clamp makes playable). The Chicago LP distorts in an awful way when I shim and clamp it, making it unplayable. IIRC this was a garage sale LP Carl picked up for me. Other than the warp, the LP, jacket, sleeve, wall poster and iron on transfer are near mint so I would love to salvage this LP.
That Thriller album freaked me out. I could-not-believe how warped that thing was on one side (didn't it look fine on side A but looked warped on the flip side?).

Thanks to Joe's clamp it played fine.

You going to retro fit that dust bug?

[halo]

I might be able to help with video if you want to add that to the pics Rich.

[SCompRacer]

Scomp,

Excellent picture. My experience with the Furutech ....

Thanks for the kind words! Since our edge warps are similar I look forward to a satisfactory repair!



But not for another day as the Furutech is still on the Fedex truck in Grove City, OH:(

Great news! The USPS has your LP’s and I have no idea where they are!:D (But I do have a delivery confirmation number).

That Thriller album freaked me out. I could-not-believe how warped that thing was on one side ….

Thanks to Joe's clamp it played fine.


The Clamp is a must have accessory! Through experience, I know just by looking at a warped LP what thickness shim(s) must be used. Thriller has a bubble and edge warp IIRC.


You going to retro fit that dust bug?

Since I got the Wave Mechanic and can adjust the speed to compensate for the increased drag, I will give it a go. I need to come up with a block of the proper height for it to track properly.


I might be able to help with video if you want to add that to the pics Rich.

That would be great! I used to have a video camera years ago. The basement 'putie has some editing software on it, but I haven't used it in years.

[hearingimpared]

Scomp,

Excellent picture. My experience with the Furutech says that record of yours will be pretty damn flat and playable. Your picture is better than mine, but both our records were warped to about the same degree. Mine improved about 90-95%, as I said, but was not perfect.

You guys must have been doing something wrong or didn't follow the directions. The three records that we flattened at Polkfest (one of which was mine) were severely warped, worse than any record I ever saw warped. One, I believe it was the Black Sabbath LP, had several differing warps and I was sure that would never be played again.

All three were run through the Furutech and came out singing on Ted's Rega, I believe he ran the third, (the name escapes me now) a second time to see if running it through again would harm it. It didn't.

[analog97]

You guys must have been doing something wrong or didn't follow the directions.

I don't believe you did not follow instructions or we did something wrong. Rather, I think it likely that you got a perfect result on a really warped LP for some reason not fully understood. There are different "warps" and different material properties that come into play. Your positive experience offers still more support for the Furutech machine!!

[schwarcw]

You guys must have been doing something wrong or didn't follow the directions.

Are you saying that we shouldn't have cooked the pizza in it?:D Any Rich was worried about a little cheese, wait until he sticks that "Thriller" LP in there. Michael will get what's coming to him:eek:

I think what Larry is saying Joe is the warp (or warps) wasn't entirely removed. Which is true as I have observed on a few LPs the cartridge will rise and fall a little even if the LP looks perfectly flat. I'm speculating, but I think Larry's point is they weren't perfectly flat. That's where his 90+ % statement comes from (I think). All the LPs played fine!

Carlos the Pizza King

[hearingimpared]

Are you saying that we shouldn't have cooked the pizza in it?:D Any Rich was worried about a little cheese, wait until he sticks that "Thriller" LP in there. Michael will get what's coming to him:eek:

I think what Larry is saying Joe is the warp (or warps) wasn't entirely removed. Which is true as I have observed on a few LPs the cartridge will rise and fall a little even if the LP looks perfectly flat. I'm speculating, but I think Larry's point is they weren't perfectly flat. That's where his 90+ % statement comes from (I think). All the LPs played fine!

Carlos the Pizza King

Okie Dokie.

Carl you saw that Black Sabbath LP I believe. I thought that bad boy would never become flat the warps were of so many different types.

[treitz3]

Just a thought. Has anybody who has tried this let the LP cool down for a day or so and then take the same warped LP and reintroduce it to the Furutech?

Has it made a further improvement?

[hearingimpared]

TED did this at Polkfest but I don't remember the results.

[reeltrouble1]

According to the dealer the longer you can let the record cool the better. If you can wait a day between pressing then you will have the best chance for quality results.

RT1

[SCompRacer]

Michael will get what's coming to him:eek:



Thriller was done in his pre-bodywork days.:D

Does that thing get warm on the outside? I can tape a bag of Cashews to the side instead of tossing them into the microwave.

[George Grand]

I don't feel at all bad about selling Ted those warped albums now. In fact, I think I still have all the ones I pulled.

Who wants to buy some warped albums so that you can have this thing come to your house to flatten them and feel like part of the club?

[strider]

Cd's don't warp:p

Yes, CD's are great.


Perfect for listening to when you're cleaning vinyl. ;):D

That looks like quite a machine you guys have got there. Glad to hear it's working out for you.

[hearingimpared]

I don't feel at all bad about selling Ted those warped albums now. In fact, I think I still have all the ones I pulled.

Who wants to buy some warped albums so that you can have this thing come to your house to flatten them and feel like part of the club?

I'll buy them George, I have a clamp that will take those warps right out!:D

[reeltrouble1]

I don't feel at all bad about selling Ted those warped albums now. In fact, I think I still have all the ones I pulled.

Who wants to buy some warped albums so that you can have this thing come to your house to flatten them and feel like part of the club?

I will take them George. Just pm me the details, what the heck, it is what we bought the thing for.

Oh yea, SC was beautiful during your impoundment in Utah, I did cut the grass, just thought you would like know.........

tedwick

[TroyD]

Ima just throw this out there....I talked to my father in law yesterday, he said the garage was a mess and that's not how I left it.

BDT

[pearsall001]

Here's something you can make with the record if it's too warped & can't be fixed. Seems like vinyl has it's place after all!!!
http://casasugar.com/388078

[reeltrouble1]

ooooops.................:o:D, rest assured nothing you care about was touched bro.

RT1

[hearingimpared]

Here's something you can make with the record if it's too warped & can't be fixed. Seems like vinyl has it's place after all!!!
http://casasugar.com/388078

Phil, I could swear when I read the story about the genesis of the Furutech Record Flattening machines that they used your flat head as the one of the early prototypes!:D

[pearsall001]

Phil, I could swear when I read the story about the genesis of the Furutech Record Flattening machines that they used your flat head as the one of the early prototypes!:D

Go take your flu medicine & get back to bed you sick puppy!!! :D

PS - if you don't behave I'll forget to remind Stephen about your Led Zepplin II album!! If he's out of stock I'll just get you the CD version.

[BaggedLancer]

Premeditated forgetting.....interesting.

[hearingimpared]

Premeditated forgetting......

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[schwarcw]

That baked vinyl makes a nice salad bowl.

Did anyone ever like anything by the Kingston Trio? All those Dobie Gillis lookin' pansies.

[hearingimpared]

Yeah man, that is some good basic stuff.

[George Grand]

The garage is where I let Ted set up shop. I'll talk to him about it.

[TroyD]

When you do, tell him to leave that Manley Stingray and all will be forgiven.

Water bill is due on the 7th, don't forget.

BDT

[SCompRacer]

The Furutech Flattener saves another LP. Pictured below is my Chicago VIII LP after flattening. Post 21 showed the LP with a bad edge warp before flattening.

[hearingimpared]

Nice~~! Every time I see your analog rig I get a woody.

[reeltrouble1]

I thought you said it generally takes about thirty minutes after HI??? Maybe you could do a commercial for Audio guys who have lost their woodies, get back in the game and all that????

RT1

[schwarcw]

Let's get "Thriller" on the Furutech! "Beat it!"

[treitz3]

Any reports as of late to a damaged LP yet?

[Ricardo]

First experience with the flattener. An Emerson Lake & Palmer record that had a couple minor warps.

Here are before/after videos. My only complaint: I wish the process didn't last so long. But it's a great gadget.

I did not use Joe's THE CLAMP to show the full extent of the warps.


SEEMS THAT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EMBED THE VIDEOS HERE...ANYONE WANTS TO HELP ME DO IT?
BEFORE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFp7bUqu_TU&feature=user

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hFp7bUqu_TU&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hFp7bUqu_TU&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

AFTER:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XA6dtYoyaM

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9XA6dtYoyaM&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9XA6dtYoyaM&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[halo]

That looks like a pretty significant difference to me.