Music servers...

[steveinaz]

I'm beginning to like the concept of music stored via hard drive on a dedicated music server. I'd like to start a general discussion about available equipment, technologies, etc; so I can get my learn on.

So bring it on....

[tryrrthg]

I love my squeezebox (http://www.slimdevices.com/welcome_holiday.html?gclid=CM2j4Nbu15ACFQ57IgodfFZ eXg)! Save $30 with that link.

Sonos (http://www.sonos.com/)also looks cool, but too spendy for me.

[shack]

The Cambridge Audio Azur 640H Music Server is something I've thought about...but at $1,300-$1,400...I'm not sure I want to spend that amount of money.

[steveinaz]

Tell me more about these 'squeezebox" thingies....do they store music uncompressed on a hard drive?

[tryrrthg]

Tell me more about these 'squeezebox" thingies....do they store music uncompressed on a hard drive?
Yes, you store your music (in whatever format you want) on your hard drive and then the computer and sqeezebox send the music/data wirelessly (or wired) over your homes network to your stereo.

Sounds great through my Bel Canto DAC. But the convenience factor of being able to listen to what I want, when I want, with the push of a button, without getting up is fantastic.

[beardog03]

so basically your computers outboard hard drive and your computer are the "brains" of the server ?

what if you don`t have a intense CPU, just an average older model ?

[steveinaz]

I'm looking for something that doesn't require a seperate computer/network...any other solutions?

[steveinaz]

What about this?...http://www.olive.us/home.html

[tryrrthg]

I'm looking for something that doesn't require a seperate computer/network...any other solutions?
I gotta ask, why?

[wingnut4772]

Since we are gear twins almost:D I HIGHLY recommend the Squeezebox. With the Benchmark you can't go wrong. Apple Lossless sounds great but you can go FLAC EAC and go nuts if you like. I can't do that anymore with my Mac - at least - I don't know how.

[steveinaz]

Don't want the hassle, I'd prefer a stand alone unit that I can feed right into my Benchmark DAC. I realize that "mass integration" is the new wave, but that's a wave I have no interest in when it comes to audio.

[tryrrthg]

Don't want the hassle, I'd prefer a stand alone unit that I can feed right into my Benchmark DAC. I realize that "mass integration" is the new wave, but that's a wave have no interest in when it comes to audio.

There isn't really a hassle. it doesnt' work any different than a stand alone unit. The squeezebox plugs right into the DAC, the computer can be in another room, which keeps a spinning (possibly noisy) hard drive away from your rig.

[shack]

An interesting read...even though it is a couple of years old.

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/harddrive/harddrive.html

[hoosier21]

The Sqeeze Box is a great unit.

You store your music on a computer. Intall the SB server software. Using either wireless or wired connection to the SB. The SB is hooked up to your Stereo. The SB has a remote and through its display, you scroll through your collection on your computer, find an album, or playlist you created, or whatever you want to search by Artist, year, whatever you want to hear and press play. Cool!

[steveinaz]

The connection scheme is simple--I get that, and I have wireless network/internet currently--just not my preference.

[steveinaz]

Ok, I'm not a total bonehead---looking at this squeezebox....do you have to use other software such as Itunes for downloading of your own CD,s, cataloging and such? The software provided with the SB doesn't do this?

I would definitely need to get an external 250GB (or higher) HD, mine is only 40GB, 25GB of which is used.

[hoosier21]

Steve, there are 250GB drives for sale in the flea market now.

Yes, you use Itunes or Windows Media player to downloading and cataoging and such.

SB software just controls the interfacing between the computer and SB unit.

[heiney9]

Don't want the hassle, I'd prefer a stand alone unit that I can feed right into my Benchmark DAC. I realize that "mass integration" is the new wave, but that's a wave I have no interest in when it comes to audio.

A wireless network and a computer hard drive can do amazing things. Get your learn on by going to the Squeezbox website and reading their forums. I'm a believer as my bro has built quite the computer music server (a separate unit from his computer) and has wireless router in each room along with a squeezebox unit and dac for each of his rigs.

Painless, convenient and sounds 99.999% as good as the original if ripped w/EAC and encoded as FLAC files.

I will be going this route very soon and getting rid of my stand alone cdp.

H9

[Sami]

That Squeezebox is a client, not a server, right? If you have a wireless network at home, either keep your main PC up as a server or configure an old, unused PC (or one that can be had for $100 or so) for Linux and have it serve your music. For the client, you could also get something like PS3 that not only act as a client but does other things as well (and it's not much more expensive that the media clients). The bad thing is you're limited to compressed music or pure WAV's, no lossless compression is supported at this time AFAIK.

[steveinaz]

I would really like to build my own music server, but that's a can of worms I just don't even want to think about right now. Maybe this summer when I'm bored to death--my computer is in need of upgrade anyway (AMD Athlon XP/2200+/512MB RAM/ASUS MB). It's on its 3rd processor now. I've built all of my own computers since around 1996, but it's getting cost prohibitive anymore---add to that, I have not been keeping up with the latest technology (computer-wise), just kind of fell out of interest for me.

[heiney9]

Ok, I'm not a total bonehead---looking at this squeezebox....do you have to use other software such as Itunes for downloading of your own CD,s, cataloging and such? The software provided with the SB doesn't do this?

I would definitely need to get an external 250GB (or higher) HD, mine is only 40GB, 25GB of which is used.

Don't use iTunes or Windows media if you want to have sound equal to the original. Download Exact Audio Copy and rip your original cd's as WAV files

http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/

Then convert to FLAC files (which Squeezebox fully supports)

http://flac.sourceforge.net/

If you choose to get music as mp3's or other lossy formats Squeezebox will support those as well. Not sure what your end goal is, if it's just to make YOUR own collection more convenient and have everything just a click away then the above described way is the way to go.

You need a wireless router if you desire to have the actual Squeezebox unit in a different room than the computer, which is the norm.

Good luck

H9

[Sami]

The easiest way would just to configure WMP as your media server on that old PC, add a 1TB hard drive inside and build a new for your main use.

Then add in wireless network (if you don't already have one), and a client.

[heiney9]

I would really like to build my own music server, but that's a can of worms I just don't even want to think about right now. Maybe this summer when I'm bored to death--my computer is in need of upgrade anyway (AMD Athlon XP/2200+/512MB RAM/ASUS MB). It's on its 3rd processor now. I've built all of my own computers since around 1996, but it's getting cost prohibitive anymore.


Processing speed is not the bottle neck with a computer server. HD space is. As long as you have adequate HD space you can use your computer as a server without issue. Now if you computer is really old an had less than 1G of ram this maybe an issue if you are multi-tasking, but otherwise you should be good to go.

[heiney9]

I can't stress enough if you want sound quality indistinguishable from the original do not use anything other than FLAC for your own ripped music. The only other downside is initially it's time consuming to convert YOUR own music into your server. Once you have everything set then it becomes a matter of just adding whatever new music you purchase in the future.

What is the end result you are looking for? Strictly using your already purchased music or are you planning on buying music on-line? Unfortunately not very many pay sites if any support FLAC as the files are just too large so you are stuck with some sort of lossy file, which IMO is not acceptable.

[Gaara]

I to will highly recommend the Squeezebox. Very easy to use and no issues once setup. I listen to vastly more music now that I have one.

If you want a server you could always get a NAS that attaches to the Squeezebox, that way your PC wouldn't be in the mix. There is also the Popcorn Hour (http://popcornhour.com/) which I am keeping my eye on. From the looks of it you buy the unit and throw a hard drive in it and you should be all set for similar price to the squeezeboxes, without needing a PC.

And heiney9 has the right idea, EAC W/ FLAC is phenomenal. Once you have it setup it is very easy to use, just put the disc in, select EAC to rip the songs, and they go to the proper place compressed lossless.

I always was wary of music servers because if you have an issue you may lose all your music. For that reason I have a external HD with all mt my music backed up onto it, just in case something happens to my PC.

[cfrizz]

I'm thinking about the SB. I'm trying to understand this here. Do you have to have a network card on your pc in order to get it to work?

What I want is to transfer the music I have already stored on my pc over to the SB just like I did with my mp3 player. Then I want to put the SB in the livingroom hooked up to my system the way my mp3 player is now & play away.

I have no intention of downloading music directly to the SB from the internet.

Is this possible?

[Sami]

I don't think the SB is for you then, it's just a client with no storage space.

[Gaara]

Cfrizz,

Squeezeboxes have no storage space. You store all your songs on your computer then the SB takes the music from your computer and plays it through your system. The songs can be sent wirelessly if you have a wireless network or you can wire the SB to your PC. You don't need to transfer them anywhere, you just tell the SB where to find them and it plays them off your PC.

The benefit of this is that there is no space constrictions like a MP3 player, the capacity is whatever the capacity of your PC hard drive is. You also can have multiple SBs, for example I have one in the main rig and one in the basement. They can both be going at the same time with different songs, or you can sync them and have the same music playing through out the house.

[cfrizz]

Ok gottcha!

Thanks Gaara.

[heiney9]

I'm about as old school as it gets, but since my bro has been using his Squeezboxes and some other friends too, I'm convinced if the music is ripped properly there is no loss in SQ. The convenience is off the charts and it's just plain cool.

I have not been able to tell a discernible difference between EAC/FLAC files and the original so that's why I'm committing to getting a Squeezebox in 2008 and moving into the wireless server crowd.

H9

[steveinaz]

I can't stress enough if you want sound quality indistinguishable from the original do not use anything other than FLAC for your own ripped music. The only other downside is initially it's time consuming to convert YOUR own music into your server. Once you have everything set then it becomes a matter of just adding whatever new music you purchase in the future.

What is the end result you are looking for? Strictly using your already purchased music or are you planning on buying music on-line? Unfortunately not very many pay sites if any support FLAC as the files are just too large so you are stuck with some sort of lossy file, which IMO is not acceptable.

I would definitely go lossless with the main focus being quality. I like the idea of having all the music at the click of a remote--that's why I'm considering the music server approach; but don't want to sacrifice fidelity. I'm not interested at all in "streaming" music via the net, or downloading music either.

[heiney9]

I would definitely go lossless with the main focus being quality. I like the idea of having all the music at the click of a remote--that's why I'm considering the music server approach; but don't want to sacrifice fidelity.

If you still have a lot of trepidation give it a try. Take some of your favorite songs use EAC to rip them to your hard drive as FLAC files.

Purchase a Squeezebox and set it up. If for some reason you don't like it you can always flip it with only minimal loss. Or purchase a slightly used SQB on e-bay, etc.

I don't think you will be unhappy. In fact you will be pleasantly surprised.

[tryrrthg]

if you've already got a wireless network at home then give the Squeezebox a try. They have a 30 day trial period. Nothing to lose. except maybe $269. ;)

[steveinaz]

I may just do that...hmmmm......

[steveinaz]

If you still have a lot of trepidation give it a try. Take some of your favorite songs use EAC to rip them to your hard drive as FLAC files.

Purchase a Squeezebox and set it up. If for some reason you don't like it you can always flip it with only minimal loss. Or purchase a slightly used SQB on e-bay, etc.

I don't think you will be unhappy. In fact you will be pleasantly surprised.

So you use EAC to rip CD's into *.wav's...then convert them w/the FLAC program? Sounds wicked.

[fatchowmein]

I have a Squeezebox. Love it because it allows me to mix technology.

Sami is correct. The SB is only a client. For the non-computer folks out there, that just means the SB depends on another unit. Off the top of my head, here's how it works.

1. You store music on a hard disk on a pc or an external hard disk attached on a pc.
2. You have to install a software called SlimServer, freeware, that comes with the SB or you can download the newest version off their website. Just tell SlimServer where your music is. For those with large music folders, SlimServer can also rescan the folder and update any changes you've made.
3. You connect your SB to your receiver/stereo/HT system and enter the network info. You can use the built in wireless or a network cable connection. I chose the later.
4. The SB will search for a pc running SlimServer. Once connected, the music data on the SlimServer is played over the network to the SB. The SB itself stores no music.
5. When playing music other than FLAC, either the SlimServer software or the SB converts (transcodes) the music file on the fly to FLAC (sorry, don't remember which does the converting). The original file is not altered. For example, all of my music is in Apple Lossless since we're an iPod family so the SB has to playback in FLAC. I have experienced zero hesitation but then I'm running a Pentium D with 2GB of memory on my file server if that's what's doing the converting. I'm guessing that the transcoding to FLAC is performed to avoid paying a license fee to Apple or Microsoft or any other proprietory format. Check out the SB website for more info.

We use iTunes exclusively and having the SlimServer's ability to import iTune's playlist is awesome. SlimServer can also create it's own playlist.

Sorry Steve. I haven't looked into standalone music systems that don't have a fileserver on the backend. I recall some units that looked like a CD player with built-in hard drives a few years back but they only played mp3's if I recall correctly.

Good luck

[dkg999]

This is all very interesting and informative. I have some interest in this, although no immediate motivation to implement. My really stupid question is ... If I had a PC with slimserver running and my music stored on the hard drive at my place in Illinois, could I access that over the internet with a SqueezeBox connected to my system at my farm in Iowa? (and assume I have a high enough bandwidth internet connection so we stay out of that discussion!)

[Sami]

So you use EAC to rip CD's into *.wav's...then convert them w/the FLAC program? Sounds wicked.

EAC, CDEX, and a quite a few of the Linux rippers will convert to FLAC automatically if you set it up that way.

[heiney9]

So you use EAC to rip CD's into *.wav's...then convert them w/the FLAC program? Sounds wicked.

You can convert from EAC on the fly directly to FLAC w/o having the extra *.wav step.

[fatchowmein]

This is all very interesting and informative. I have some interest in this, although no immediate motivation to implement. My really stupid question is ... If I had a PC with slimserver running and my music stored on the hard drive at my place in Illinois, could I access that over the internet with a SqueezeBox connected to my system at my farm in Iowa? (and assume I have a high enough bandwidth internet connection so we stay out of that discussion!)

I imagine your farm in Iowa has a PC. You'll probably need to install SlimServer locally and map a network drive to your system in Illinois.

Or...

If the system in Illinois shows up on the local network in Iowa, the SB "should" be able to detect it.

[steveinaz]

You can convert from EAC on the fly directly to FLAC w/o having the extra *.wav step.

So FLAC codecs are included with EAC?

[heiney9]

So FLAC codecs are included with EAC?

Yes. And with EAC you are getting a bit perfect rip as well as coding to FLAC on the fly. FLAC works EXACTLY like WinZip does for data files. Absolutely no loss to the info, just about a 25-30% smaller file than *.wav.

EAC set up properly yields EXACT bit perfect copies, period!

[steveinaz]

Check these out:

http://www.request.com/products/nseries.asp#

[steveinaz]

Yes. And with EAC you are getting a bit perfect rip as well as coding to FLAC on the fly. FLAC works EXACTLY like WinZip does for data files. Absolutely no loss to the info, just about a 25-30% smaller file than *.wav.

EAC set up properly yields EXACT bit perfect copies, period!

Cool. I'll download that tonight.

[tryrrthg]

See this page for proper setup.

http://www.carltonbale.com/project/cd-audio-extraction/

I got that link from this thread:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57688

I think one of the coolest things about EAC is the accurate rip feature, which compares the data your ripped from you CD to the rips that other people got. if a large number of people ripped the same data as you then more than likely you know you got a bit perfect copy.

[steveinaz]

Great link...serious details. Thanks

[heiney9]

Great link...serious details. Thanks

Have fun Steve :). Media Monkey is a great program as mentioned in the link.

[sucks2beme]

Please keep in mind, you really don't need a squeezebox to store music or play it back.
You could use any of the free software programs out
there that can read the tags and play them back. You can also download
the SB server software and pc SB client free. This means you can set up the server,
and use your laptop anywhere to playback using the FREE SB
software just as if you had the real SB hardware, either using the pc
soundcard, or an external USB DAC.
This is my setup. It's a Antec MM pc case with a microATX motherboard,
1g ram, a 500gb hd. I'm using the onboard video. The DAC sitting on top is a
USB Monica II. I use EAC to rip everything to lossless FLAC, and FOOBAR
to playback. A lower end laptop would also work, just add a USB external drive
for extra storage. I use a bluetooth presentation remote to scroll through
the tunes. There is no keyboard, just a mouse and 15" flatscreen.
The fan noise in minimal

[steveinaz]

That your own build? Very cool....

[heiney9]

Please keep in mind, you really don't need a squeezebox to store music or play it back.
You could use any of the free software programs out
there that can read the tags and play them back. You can also download
the SB server software and pc SB client free. This means you can set up the server,
and use your laptop anywhere to playback using the FREE SB
software just as if you had the real SB hardware, either using the pc
soundcard, or an external USB DAC.
This is my setup. It's a Antec MM pc case with a microATX motherboard,
1g ram, a 500gb hd. I'm using the onboard video. The DAC sitting on top is a
USB Monica II. I use EAC to rip everything to lossless FLAC, and FOOBAR
to playback. A lower end laptop would also work, just add a USB external drive
for extra storage. I use a bluetooth presentation remote to scroll through
the tunes. There is no keyboard, just a mouse and 15" flatscreen.
The fan noise in minimal

True, but the Squeezebox gives a bit more flexibility as well as on-screen info, remote control. It's just a little less user intensive (for a cost I realize). But suckstobeme and his way will get the same result. The Squeezebox is an insanely nice little package that is very flexible.

H9

[Gaara]

Last I checked EAC does not come with FLAC, you have to download the plug in here (http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html), then setup EAC to automatically convert to FLAC.

[sucks2beme]

True, but the Squeezebox gives a bit more flexibility as well as on-screen info, remote control. It's just a little less user intensive (for a cost I realize). But suckstobeme and his way will get the same result. The Squeezebox is an insanely nice little package that is very flexible.

H9

The real benefit is you can use an old pc sitting around to try out the concept without
killing the budget. And a 15" lcd monitor is a lot easier to see and use than the SB interface.
The downside is the noise. The Antec MM case is very quiet, but still makes a bit of noise,
mostly it's the proccessor fan.
It was your post about your brother's setup that got this idea bouncing
around in my head. And this is the result.

[heiney9]

The real benefit is you can use an old pc sitting around to try out the concept without
killing the budget. And a 15" lcd monitor is a lot easier to see and use than the SB interface.
The downside is the noise. The Antec MM case is very quiet, but still makes a bit of noise,
mostly it's the proccessor fan.
It was your post about your brother's setup that got this idea bouncing
around in my head. And this is the result.

Good idea for a trial run and who knows maybe a permanent set-up, if one has some old computer parts lying around :)

[jmwest1970]

Last I checked EAC does not come with FLAC, you have to download the plug in here (http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html), then setup EAC to automatically convert to FLAC.

The latest builds of EAC do include FLAC.

Also, there has been some discussion at AudioKarma (http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?) regarding using a Squeezebox or Roku Soundbridge with a NAS device instead of a PC. I'm sure there is more discussion elsewhere as well. If you want to keep it all on the device it looks like the McIntosh MS300 (http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=19&cat=Sources&prodid=1113&product=MS300) or the Cambridge Audio 640H (http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=39&Title=Azur%20640H%20Music%20Server%20-%20with%20AudioFile%20technology) are out there along with the others mentioned previously.

[markmarc]

There are tons of possibilities out there.

You may want to checkout my DIY version of Sooloos Music Server in the December 2007 issue for another possibility.
www.affordableaudio.org/aa2007-12s.pdf