pro audio power amp as hi-fi amp? (sounds good to me)

[ward91]

hello all, have any of you ever listend to your hi-fi speakers or main speakers throung a professional audio (live sound) amp. i have a crown xs500 and i decided one day to try it through my wharfedale daimond 8.3s , blew me away sounds better than arcam alpha3, of course sounds better than my cambridge audio 540r v2 (avr) sounds better than yamaha ax 396 , the deatail it reveals is amazing, the sound is verry tight but verry well reinforced. all across the spectrum, the amp makes each part of the sound stand out.whilst remaining fairly warm sounding. just wonderd if anyone else had listend to any pro amps in a hi fi environment? what were your oppinions.

one or two annoying things.
the xs500 has a constant speed fan,(got round this by putting amp in other room sometimes i cant so i just turn it up or try to ignore it)

only one pair of inpus and one set of outputs.(as most power amps do)

volume control notches are too big, (use cambridge audio 540d to control volume after setting the amp ones at about 9 o'clock)

[TroyD]

It's never been my cup of tea however YMMV.

BDT

[reeltrouble1]

I use pro sound amps frequently for stage performance's, I find them excellent for stage work but not so hot for hi-fi, mostly due to their noise and the sound being a bit too edgy.

RT1

[steveinaz]

I ran 2 Soundcraftsmen PM840's bridged in my system for nearly 14 years. It was a necessity at the time as I had Bose 901 VI's that liked alot of power, and I had a large livingroom. Though not the last word on articulation, and bass a little over-done, they had alot of warm character in a positive way for me. As an example; I never knew what "digital glare" was until I went to so-called higher-end products---ironic huh?

If you like the sound of it, use it.

[ward91]

just bein listening to it again, grabed arcam alpha 3 to compare to(old but in prestene condition), the arcam has a more natural?/easy/less obtrousive sound compared to the crown but after about 5 or 10 mins u get used to the up front "monitoring" sound of the crown. the bass on the arcam is a little wayward compared to the crown that has deep but verry controled bass. both have nice sonics and mids on the arcam are more laid back but not as precise as the crown.the sounds are totaly different.i think i like the sound of the crown because every detail somehow seems to be immediatley obvious without being obtrusive to the sound. for the first few minutes of listeninig it doesnt quite "sit right" (too harsh/bright)compared to my other amps sounding harsh but i soon get used to it. in my limeted oppinion sound wise its a what you give in is what you get out rarther than a hi-fi sound designed to sound pleasurable.
i find it easier to "get into the sound/lay back and enjoy" with the crown at higher volumes than my other amps proberly because of its power and timing.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

I ran a Crown XTi1000 through a pair of RT55

I wanted to commit suicide right there on the spot.

Horrible sound.

[Sami]

ward, I was going to say the pro amps tend to be very bright in comparison to hifi amps and at home can become hard to listen to. Maybe it's due to the application and they are designed to be that way as bright works well in bars and stages to overcome the background noise that can tame a lot of the highs.

For me the only pro amp I tried didn't work at all. Samson S1000 2*500W to RTi150's, sounded horrible. The HK AVR I compared it to sounded a lot better and I know the 150's like a decent amount of power too. I only wonder what it would sound like compared to some of the hifi amps I have now.

[ward91]

ward, I was going to say the pro amps tend to be very bright in comparison to hifi amps and at home can become hard to listen to. Maybe it's due to the application and they are designed to be that way as bright works well in bars and stages to overcome the background noise that can tame a lot of the highs.

For me the only pro amp I tried didn't work at all. Samson S1000 2*500W to RTi150's, sounded horrible. The HK AVR I compared it to sounded a lot better and I know the 150's like a decent amount of power too. I only wonder what it would sound like compared to some of the hifi amps I have now.

true that a bright sound helps but this is not the job of the amp, the mixer controls the sound 100% and the amp is designd to apply gain to the signal but keep it true to the input. why didnt you like the sound of the samsons? i havent listend to them myself but theyre studio amps arnt they?

[Sami]

Harsh sound I think describes it the best. It was my subwoofer amp that I just tried for the heck of it, didn't work for me.

[ward91]

looks like ive been outvoted on this one, still it sounds good to me, would be interested to know why Vr3MxStyler2k3 almoast killed himself.
still open for more feedback/Criticism

[Sami]

There are people who like Crown amps (forgot which specific model was talked about) so you are not alone. The Samson did not work for me, maybe some of the Crown's would but I'm not really in the need to find out as I have all the amps I need now.

[reeltrouble1]

he has a mixer in his home system???? I do not think so.

There are many ways to get the signal from the instrument to the pa system. Many musicians run from the instrument to an integrated amplifier with each piece processing the signal in various ways, then out to the PA which also processes the signal, so to say a mixer controls 100% of the sound?????

off topic but alot of music instruments produce harsh tones, its supposed to be that way.

RT1

[ward91]

he has a mixer in his home system???? I do not think so.

There are many ways to get the signal from the instrument to the pa system. Many musicians run from the instrument to an integrated amplifier with each piece processing the signal in various ways, then out to the PA which also processes the signal, so to say a mixer controls 100% of the sound?????

off topic but alot of music instruments produce harsh tones, its supposed to be that way.

RT1

ok wel not 100% of 100% but ,can you mute the vocals from your stage amp? can you eq your guitar from the vocal mic on centre stage? can you turn up the kick drum from the bass amp ? so the mixer has o/a control of the sound it "ties it together", maby not 100% correctley speaking but it controls the overall sound going to the amp/speakers regardless of what is going into it

the mixer controls the signal to the amp and it is rare to have affects between the mixer and the amp unless they are equilisers and then they arnt realy affects.

[ward91]

"off topic but alot of music instruments produce harsh tones, its supposed to be that way."
a fair enough thing to say in quite alot of cases id agree with you, and a pa is realy a musical instrument isnt it?? as they all sound different. but from what you are saying about pa's being musical instruments its a bit general to say they sound harsh?

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Pro amps are real tempting because they're a way to get gobs of power on the cheap. I've tried a couple and they've never really done the trick for me either. Bright and harsh is the best way I can describe. I suppose I could have listened for a while and got acclimated to that sound, but why?

[Yashu]

It depends on the application. You have "loud" and then you have "louder than hell" and then you have more intimate settings where you either want a small warm sounding amp for the electric stuff that doesn't overpower the rest.

I would say that in certain venues, there are some very good systems, and there are very good pro amps out there. The main problem with these is that they are meant to sit far and away from the performance... so yeah, cooling fans, and other stuff that wouldn't be on a home setup.

Check Audioasylum, I think there are some people there that actually prefer some of the pro amps out there to consumer ones. I would say... that the pro amps meant for studio work would be better than for live, as far as articulation.

[reeltrouble1]

ward dont sweat it. If you want to use and like the sound of your pro amp go ahead.

RT1

[ward91]

ye im easy with what people have to say , not here to start a argument (as you are too)just like to know peoples oppinions, and in most cases seem to be against using them.

[cfrizz]

I wouldn't use one for these reasons.

1. The fan
2. They are fugly
3. They are not designed for HT equipment.

[ward91]

1. yup the fan is rarther annoying
2. yup most are verry ugly , i dont recon mine is but il leve that up to you.(follow link)
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=crown+xs500&gbv=2
3. not quite sure why it matters appart from the fan and visual apperance? if your happy with the sound
cheers for the input though

[heiney9]

true that a bright sound helps but this is not the job of the amp, the mixer controls the sound 100% and the amp is designd to apply gain to the signal but keep it true to the input.

If that were only true. It's not true as there is no such amp, or component for that matter, which keeps everything 100% true from input to output. All things in the chain affect the final sound including cables, source, amp, preamp, connectors, type of wire used, dac's, caps, etc, etc. To say 100% of the sound comes from the mixer is very short sighted. Every part in the chain adds it own character and alters the final output.

H9

[ward91]

that is true and i 100% agree with you, my reply wasnt all that too clear.

i was trying to make a point, and i didnt actualy say they dont alter the sound . i said they'r ment to pass is through which in most cases is so.
"amp is designd to apply gain to the signal but keep it true to the input"

[ohskigod]

its not like there are no pro amps on the planet that sound good in a home environment. Many pro amps seem to have the problems some sight above. bright, grainy (not issues in public address, but will come out in an enclosed home setting)

I fully admit there are probably pro amps out there that will transcent those expectations. I've heard good things about some Crown amps, as they seem to be high wuality pro amps. I know soundcraftsman (kind of vintage) had some bad ass amps people used in home environments. allways wanted to try a soundcraftsman.

I have a JBL Urei amp I got from Russman that sounds pretty damn good for a pro amp. Like the Urei, I'm sure there are some pro amp gems out there.

[skipf]

I've used a pair of Carver PM-300's hooked up to my LSi9's and the sounded good, not nearly as good as my M-500t, but good. No glaring deficiencies, and they don't have fans to make noise. Gain controls are nice to have. I plan to hook 'em up in bridged mode to power the sub on my AL-III's and see how they sound. The best thing about pro amps is they are built to last and take a lot of abuse. I use mine anytime I want portable sound. They seem to run better in bridged mode than many home amps.

[michaeljhsda2]

I use a Crown XLS 602 amplifier and it sounds great driving my 1.2 TL’s. Yes it has cooling fans, but then again, so does the Carver TFM 75 and the McIntosh MC2600.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1206549845
No affil.

[madmax]

I used a pair of Carver PT1250's or something like that for a few years. They were a hoot when you cranked them up and ok at low levels. The audiophile stuff sounds better but the pro amps had the dynamics down. You haven't heard your speakers true potential until you have heard them powered at close to a thousand watts per channel. :)

[furball]

1000 watts? Wont that blow your speakers?

[sucks2beme]

1000 watts? Wont that blow your speakers?

Not normally. Having a 1000 watts is not the same as trying to apply 1000
watts. The extra power reserves keep the sound nice and dynamic.
Better to have a 1000 and not need it then have a 100 and clip it.

[treitz3]

Not normally. Having a 1000 watts is not the same as trying to apply 1000
watts. The extra power reserves keep the sound nice and dynamic.
Better to have a 1000 and not need it then have a 100 and clip it.
*clean power* ;)

[carversound]

I had many pro amps crown/peavey in my home system. And alway had to turn bass up to sound good. Got my dad's 1.5t carver and it blows away any crown or peavey amp in home set up even thru pa speakers. But set up in a hall the crown/peavey sound better. So if your room is big like a hall/stadium or big bar I'd go pro. My room is 20x20 and the carver home audio rules! Better bass and better soundstage. The mids are great and tweets sound sweet. My living for many of my younger days was setting up sound/ lighting and stage for one of the biggest sound companys in chicago. Ive done sound for some of the biggest bands out there,from Iron maiden/ three dog night /stix/coco tayler/buckinghams/foghat/Jean-Luc Ponty
and many others.

[sucks2beme]

I had many pro amps crown/peavey in my home system. And alway had to turn bass up to sound good. Got my dad's 1.5t carver and it blows away any crown or peavey amp in home set up even thru pa speakers. But set up in a hall the crown/peavey sound better. So if your room is big like a hall/stadium or big bar I'd go pro. My room is 20x20 and the carver home audio rules! Better bass and better soundstage. The mids are great and tweets sound sweet. My living for many of my younger days was setting up sound/ lighting and stage for one of the biggest sound companys in chicago. Ive done sound for some of the biggest bands out there,from Iron maiden/ three dog night /stix/coco tayler/buckinghams/foghat/Jean-Luc Ponty
and many others.


There you go. Use the right tool for the right job.
That makes perfect sense.

[madmax]

1000 watts? Wont that blow your speakers?

Most any quality speaker will handle short peaks of that power range. By peaks I mean very short term peaks which most sounds are made up as. For example, the clank of a cowbell or a hit of the rim of a drum is fairly short. A cymbal can be quite a long sound but it is made up of many very tiny peaks. These are the things that make it up there in the 1000w region. A long sound like a voice or guitar note never has those very high peaks so they stay down in the reasonable range. A voice produced at more than 50 to 75 watts would leave you hurting because of the long duration of consistant power.
madmax

[ward91]

whats a "MAGNETIC FIELD POWER AMPLIFIER " please explain ,or try to.
cheers

[F1nut]

whats a "MAGNETIC FIELD POWER AMPLIFIER " please explain ,or try to.
cheers

Switching power supply.

[ward91]

ah cheers :-)

[mhardy6647]

Some of the "pro" amps (even some of the pretty cheesy ones) will work surprisingly well as home hifi power amps. An example was a two-channel 'pro' amp sold for some time by Radio Shack. These were in the 150 wpc range, fan cooled, and said to sound pretty durn good.

This amp, or a reasonable facsimile, is still available under various brand names (e.g., "Pyramid" brand, from PartsExpress). The price is right...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=245-525

http://www.partsexpress.com/imageslarge/245-525L.jpg


Here's another pro two-channel amp that sounds pretty good, Peavey Classic 50/50. It's all tube (outputs are push-pull parallel 7189s for nominally 50 wpc -- maybe more like 30 continuous watts per channel). This one's mine...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/mhardy6647/PeaveyClassic5050topless.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/mhardy6647/P1020121.jpg

(the output tubes are mounted sideways in the back of the amp, in front of a cooling fan. They're hardly visible in these topless shots).

[carversound]

A friend of mine gave me a pyle pro 3200 1600watt pro amp and it was pretty loud,they go for about $300. I hooked up the carver 1.5t and what a differance, 20x better sounding then the pyle. The peavey/ crown were better, but the carver was still alot better sounding. Sold pyle at pawn shop $100
It's pretty hard to beat the carver m1.5t ($300 average price)
That less than a $1 a watt. A true 350watt rms a channel

[ward91]

how hot do these carvers get? just being looking at pics came across this pic of the inside of a 1.5t on ebay, how does it keep cool??
are these avalable in the uk??

[carversound]

They just get warm! Bob carver was very good at making amps. He made the m1.5t to sound just as good as the Mark Levinson ML-2 a amp that cost 10x the price of the 1.5t.

[mhardy6647]

The early Carver "magnetic field" amp (the Carver Cube) used to often get warm enough to flame...