And Then it happened

[mantis]

The shootout of all shootouts........B&K VS Rotel....Finally!!!!

B&K avr307
Rotel Rc-971 preamp
Rotel RB960BX amp
Transparent music link interconnects
Monstercable M1.4s bi wire speaker cables
Monstercable HTS5000 Line/surge
Pioneer Elite DV47a DVD player/cd player/SACD player
Polk Audio Lsi15's.

MUSIC:
Steely Dan"2 Against Nature...cd
Alice N Chains"unpluged"........DVD
Train "Drops Of Jupiter"...........SACD
Al Di Meola "Winter Nights"......Telarc cd
Lorenna Mckennitt "Sample CD".cd

The B&K is owned by liv4fam.I finally got some time together to conduct this well waited shootout.Man what a shootout it was.

The B&K was up first and man was it sounding good.This receiver is fantastic,dynamic and powerfull.at 185 watts into a 4 ohm load,it showed it allday.It handled the lsi15's like a Manador at a Bull fight.Man I like it.The high's where slightly rolled off and relaxed,Mid range was alittle forward and punchy,Bass.........well Thunder comes to mind.Sacd was awesome.....I was enjoying the music more then listening to the peice.Man the mid range was warm and clean.I will have to say this is one fine sounding receiver.Better then just about all I have ever listened 2.Including the Sunfire receiver.I think the B&K might have it's way with it.If your getting the Idea I love this thing...well your right.I can't ask anymore out of one box.........hell you would sware it sounds like a nice seperate system........actually it is an intergraded.
Next up was the Rotel seperates........man simply put awesome......mighty and proud to run the lsi15's.Super detailed and clear highs relaxed mid range and super tight and punchy bass.I like it.The amp has a hell of alot of power for being rated at 110watts at a 4ohm load( I believe that was what Rotel told me when I asked them)It's 60 into a 8 ohm load dual mono design.Killer little amp.The preamp was smooth on volume ramping.Rotel and Lsi go together perfectly.

Now to compare the 2............
B&K held it's own against the Rotel seperates,better then I expected.It hung right in there on every last detail and finesse.I was shocked how good both of them are even in a shootout.I have heard Rotel alot on alot of different setups.B&K as well.
Ok Highs go to the Rotel....slightly cleaner and airy.B&K rolled off a bit,but just slighty.
Midrange......pick what you like better,laidback or full of warmth.I couldn't deside whch one I liked better, they where different but I liked them the same, kinda like what mood you are in......funny.
Lows........again Pick em......the Rotel is very punchy and tight,powerfull bass when needed,so was the B&K I would say it's slighty mellow.....but not alot in compare.Both Rotel and B&K are very musical.I think it would come down to what you need in features,and how much money you have to spend.B&K is more expensive,Rotel can't be touched for the Money.I would have loved to have the Rsx1065 here for a receiver to receiver shootout.The rsx1065 sounds just like my 2 channel system does.They don't change.Just add power.I like that about Rotel.B&K is basically the same way The avr307 sounds almost exactly like the ref30 and ref 7270, the seperates just have more power,same sound quality.
I think if your going to spend megabucks on Japanese receivers,I'd look into B&K and Rotel first then last.Your not going to get this kind of sound quality out of Denon,Yamaha,Integra/Onkyo,Sony,Pioneer Elite,Kenwood,etc.The Sunfire receiver would also be a nice pick,again on the pricey side but well worth it, that thing sounds real good as well.

I'm gonna cut this one short......I like em both alot.If I owned one or the other I would be totally happy and not wanting the other.
This puts me sorta where I was before I did the shootout, but now I got B&K in my sole again........**** I don't know what the hell 2 buy.I gotta weigh out alot of things.:confused:

[polkatese]

Dan,
what about the HT features? no LOTR test drive? It sounds like a very close bake off....do you want me to send my rsx1065 for the next one?:lol:

[mantis]

polkatese,
I will have to give it to the new B&K avr507 for home theater features.It has THX Ultra2 setting, the Rotel does not.
They both sport DTS discrete,Surround ex,PL2 and Neo so even there.The B&K has built in amps for surround back, the rsx1065 you gotta buy a 2 channel amp......hince the lower cost.
B&K has 7 video ins and 3 component....Rotel has 5 and 2.If you need more connectability B&k is the way to go, but you'll pay double for it.rsx1065 is 2 grand and the B&K avr507 is 4 grand.

[joe logston]

mantis , i guess its how much money you want to spend, is the b&k upgradable, and i make you the offical polk reviewer.
good post, and how do you like your lsi-15 now

[mantis]

Offical Polk review....I hope I can live up 2 that title.....but thats.

The B&K avr series for a long time has been and always will be upgradeable.B&K has always allowed to 2 upgrade to the newest receiver.Limit one upgrade.If you own the avr202 and had it upgraded to the avr307, you can't upgrade it to the avr507.I'f you can it will be a first.The avr101 was able to upgrade to the avr202,but not the avr307.
B&K earned my respect when they released the avr307.I went to B&K in Buffalo NY for training on it and the ref30.Imperssive operation they have up there.Everything is hand made.They build everything from a circuit board.I watched a avr307 get built from start to finish.I was In love......O amn what a 3 day trip that was.

B&k is my benchmark which I grade all my receivers to.Nothing untill I came across Rotel had equal or dare I say better sound quality.Rotel is half the price,and only half the receiver in features.Sound quality it's so hard to deside.I'm becoming impatient as I haven't had Home theater going on 2 months now...

[mantis]

and how do you like your lsi-15 now
Sorry Joe,
I was ranting about the B&K and got lost in the moment.My lsi15's are of high regaurds.I love them completly.:D

Mated with Both B&K and Rotel, I had some high end sounding shootout going on in my livingroom.Man I was sitting there just loving the Lsi15's taking all the power sent to them.They are in my opnion....the very best of the best for under 2 grand.Don't believe all the hype about them hanging with high end speakers costing twice or more then there cost.Not true.....compare them to there own class and I believe they lead the way,setting the standard,king of the hill......etc........;)

So if your getting the Idea I love em......allday!!!!!!

Super happy with My Lsi15's Mantis.

[liv4fam]

B&K IS THE BEST HOME THEATER RECEIVER ON THE MARKET TODAY


IMO IT HAS NO EQUAL FOR THE MONEY

PERIOD..............................

[TroyD]

pffffffffffffft.......for 3 grand.

Whatever.

A wise man once said: 'stupid is as stupid does'.

BDT

[liv4fam]

Man you don't even have Home Theater.

So why do you think your opinion even matters?

You still think 2 channel stereo is awesome for movies.

YOU ARE A SMACK!!!!!

[TroyD]

Oh, I don't have a HT?

Holy CRAP!, lemme go look in the living room...../walking down the hall/ stomp, stomp, stomp..../walking back/.....Let's see, my Denon HT receiver and Carver amps are still there, Tosh DVD player, RTA12C's in front, CS400i, P-dime sub, R10 rears (the .5lb type on aftermarket brackets, surely you remember those). WHEW! All still there, I was worried something happened to them.

Yet another shining example of a brain being on vacation leaving the old pie hole in charge.

Better luck next time.

BDT

[TroyD]

Oh, while your at it, explain to the 95% of the population that is in the majority, why movies can't sound good in good old 2.0

This promises to be entertaining. Devoid of logic, but entertaining.

BDT

[liv4fam]

Oh Damn,

I totally forgot about that.........................I remember I used to have fun with your R10's.

Funny why don't you kick people with your HT more. It's gotta be reference in your eyes it has Carver in there doesn't it earn the same respect as your beloved DQ-10's??

Which Denon you have? The 1601 or did you take it out and get 1801?
I am dying to know. Come on Bless me with your wisdom. Since all SS amps sound identical I bet your Denon will destroy or at least hang with any other receiver (except the sunfire ultimate receiver) since you seem to think spending 3000 grand on a receiver is just stupid.

I guess a lot of people are really stupid huh Troy?

Actually I think I will start a post stating that "according to troy everyone that owns a 3000 dollar receiver is stupid"

[TroyD]

Hey, whatever floats your boat, but I like RonP's theory. He's got a Marantz receiver (probably about 500 bucks) and Adcoms hooked up to a L,R,C and rears. I'm guessing that Ron's got less than a grand, all in and has performance that is rival to a receiver costing at least twice that.

Yes, my receiver is an 1801 and the amp is a m0.5t. While you and others may scoff, personally I could care less and I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't be embarrased by the B&K/Def Tech rig.

BDT

[liv4fam]

Hey Dude,

Come on now. Do you really believe that a low end receiver and an old outdated Carver amp or any amp for that matter will rival descent receivers or seperates of today?

I really think you are fooling yourself now. If you are truly an A/V guy than you can appreciate the differences between good equipment and crap.

I heard a ghetto system at work last week that had a Yamaha RXV-2095 and an Adcom GFA-6000 and Audire 20 amp and it sounded so disgusting I wanted to laugh but our customer was so into it that we had to refrain. But man Dan and I were floored that he could actually sit down and listen to that.

I know people just want to better there systems and most people take pride in what they own but JESUS CHRIST!!!!

AMPS and RECEIVERS suck ballbags. They are not meant to be together and it doesn't work.

I have really high standards as to what stuff should like and even my system is not exactly where I want it yet nor do I go around telling everybody it is badass. I have laughed at and beaten up Martin logan and Proceed systems, Krell and Wilson, it doesn't matter if it sounds ****ty then it sucks.

Why all of you cherish amp to receivers I will never know but to say that it will rival top-end receiver......................I say you really don't know what you are talking about no do I think you carry the experience to make such a judgement.

All smiles..........................That was for you Dan.

[TroyD]

RBH inwalls ~ really high standards......

yup, I don't even need to reply to that one.

Like a fat girl in a dodgeball game, I'm OUT!

BDT

[liv4fam]

No more RBH man...........................

What's that you don't have a leg to stand on? owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

[TroyD]

a leg to stand on?

Shoot, least I'm not switching feet every other post.

Where do you stand on the Onk/Integra thing? How 'bout how much Yammie sucks, though you owned one of thier receivers...

BDT

[madmax]

You guys are funny!!! I was going to say more but then everyone would be mad at me.

Well I gotta spit out this one at least. There is a customer listening to a known disgusting setup, at the store you are affiliated with, and you are afraid to lead him to something better??? I've had people at my local shop tell me what was junk and what didn't work well together on many occasions. When I didn't believe it they worked on me until I understood. Sometimes it was downright painful.

He will eventually figure it out.
madmax

[liv4fam]

Yamaha does suck IMO the only reason I owned it was because it mated with my in-walls extremely good. I bought the 995 to to see how well it mated and I was shocked so I bought the RXV-1 and it served me well for like a year than I got new speakers once again and the yamaha didn't mate so I tried B&K and it mated very well so I bought the AVR-307 and that's where I am at now.
Next year I will probably do it all over again and so on and so on.

Onkyo- Garbage...................Integra-Garbage

Why do I feel this way?

Simple I have heard them many times and have worked with them for awhile and my reasons are that they are extremely bright like Yamaha they have very little current(no amps) and there setup is horrible not too mention there features are downright stupid like if you try to use the internal amps for multiroom it cuts out the rears. What's the freaking point.
And they don't really mate with anything they make B&W sound nasty and Dynaudio sounds like KLH on them and it acts like a Denon don't put anything under a 6 ohm load on it or it will die.

How's that?

[VE6OHV]

I must say that I find some of the comments here a little offensive. I must question hiring an "installer" (is that kind of like the oil "installer" at Wal-Mart that has no education and knows everything about your car), to install or set up my HT after comments like I see here. I have trouble thinking that some of you folks are "professionals" in your field. I work on all kinds of customer equipment, and each situation is unique and each customer has their preferences. As a "Professional" in my field my job is to advise the customer and work within their limits - NOT to pass judgement because I KNOW ALL!.

One word comes to mind - "Jackass" some of you should send a resume to Johnny Knoxville, I'm sure you would fit right in.

One last thought. Mine ain't the biggest, but I it gets me where I want to go.

[madmax]

Wow,
And this is from an amature radio operator (I think) who are pretty much the most honest down to earth non-trouble making perceptive helpful people in the world! Is that a call sign or am I wrong about that?

BTW, my stuff cost more than theirs so it must be better! Just kidding:)

madmax

[phuz]

VE6OHV, good job. :)

Stick around if ya can, we could use more people around here like you.

[F1nut]

I thought that may be the type of engine in his 4X4.

I agree, good read!

[madmax]

It could be that people who own 4X4's with that particular engine have good insite. It is probably not fair to keep picking on Mantis after bedtime :)
madmax

[F1nut]

And Then it ended............:p

[mantis]

Damn I didn't even get in on all this madness......O WOW!!!

Since this is MY post I feel the need to RETORT.......

Look,
it's like this.......Liv4fam is entitled to his opnions.Agree or not.He comes off strong but believes what he writes.No sense in trying to discredit him as YOU LOOK LIKE AN ASS in doing it.

The Family Fued between Russ,Troy,Liv4fam and I is just what we do.We get along for awhile then all of what happened on this post........happens.......;)

But can we all agree we all have our own opnions and should be aloud to have them?

check this out......debate this

Yamaha sucks my ballbag......2 bright and mates horrible with alot of different speakers.

Integra..........Onkyo........ditto.

I think using a receiver with external amps instead of a preamp is a waste of time and money......My opnion.

I like good wire.........do you?

Troy thinks if it costs alot or it is new, it's not worth his time.

Troy also thinks his DQ-10's are the effin **** less of the Carver Amazing's........

Tory thinks Carver is the best amp for his reasons..money,hype,whatever.

I think My Lsi15's are the best speakers under 2 grand period.

Rotel is the very best bang for the buck.

B&K makes fantastic gear.....receivers(intergraded)or seperates.

I can't now deside which way I want to go....B&K......Rotel.......B&K.....Rotel.......B&K.....Rotel.

I think picking on what someone does for a living is low.

I am proud to be an Installer.

But I still need some help desiding which way to go.

I don't think just because I'm an Installer I'm the be all end all,I'm still learning like everyone else.

:)

One last thing.......Troy.3 grand???is that alot of money for todays receivers???it's wrong the B&K avr507 is 4 grand.And I will put it up against any receiver running seperate amps all effin day.I will go as far as saying it's better then Sunfires Ultimate receiver.I think it smokes it for sound quality,it's THX Ultra2 and worht every last cent of 4 grand..........seperates in one case.o how nice........Integraded all effin day my man........stop judging things by it's price tag.......if you can't get into it,that doesn't mean it sounds..........sorry to tell you the avr307 won the very best receiver on the market 3 times in a row.....:p

[TroyD]

Dan,

No need to try and make him look like an ass, he does that all on his own.

Also, ever occur to you that he does more to tarnish the image of a 'Pro HT Installer' than any of us ever could?

BDT

[mantis]

Troy,
it's just what he does.He feels real strong about what he has learned.He's been an Installer for like 9 years now.And is one of the very best I have ever met.

Do I also tarnish the image of Installers?

[TroyD]

Troy thinks if it costs alot or it is new, it's not worth his time

I never said any such thing. My point is that there is a LOT of great gear on the used market. That being said, yes, for MY money I can buy more quality for less money with used gear. I got nothing against new gear at all. Same theory on the Carver amps, are there better amps? No doubt, but not at a price I can live with.

Nor did I say that the DQ-10 is the end all, be all. However, I've not heard a speaker under 5 G's that I would say is overall 'better'. As far as the Amazings go, sure, I think that they are pretty sweet as well. Those are my opinions and if folks don't agree, hey, no problem.

BDT

[VE6OHV]

I am not trying to attack what you are doing for a living. I just find your attitude unprofessional. I normaly don't get involved in pissing contests like this. Mantis, you can have whatever relationship with the rest of the people here, be it good, bad, or otherwise, I am not interested. I do find reading some of the posts here to be informative, insightful, and well thought out, thogh there are some like this that are full of usless banter.

I admit the Wal-mart crack was uncalled for.

Personal fellings aside, (I would like to hear from the "professional" installers here), what formal education or training have you recived to qualify you as a "Journeyman". Please don't include the typical propoganda that the manufacturer hosts. Are you an electrical engineer, carpenter, Physics Phd., what is it?

That said everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But that is what it is an OPINION.

Yes it is an amatuer radio call sign, I use the system to communicate from the Jeep when we are out of range of cell phones. (Wich is all the time).

[HBombToo]

I'm in the wireless industry and just wondering where you are and why you have such poor coverage.

HBomb

[TroyD]

I'd like to apologize to the forum at large for my tirade last night. I was in a fairly pissy mood so it just sort of went downhill.

I would also like to apologize if it seemed that I was hacking on anyone who has or would like to have a 3 grand receiver. I simply reject the notion that any receiver is the end all / be all. I also believe that at that price, you could seriously look at getting into separates.

I make no apologies about the content of my tirade, only that I DID vent, as I know that it can be a drag for everyone else to sift through an electronic pissing match.

BDT

[TroyD]

HBomb,

For some MYSTERIOUS reason, my work cell phone (after hours electronic leash) has intermittent periods where I am not able to get coverage. <wink> <wink>

I actually like it that way, don't try to fix it. ;)

BDT

[weavercr]

Its a Charleston cell phone thing. I had service from 4 different providers and still have the same intermittent service problems

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by TroyD
A wise man once said: 'stupid is as stupid does'.

BDT

And another GREAT MAN has said

"Theres a snake in my Boot!"

Its funny BDT my portable does the same thing but I think it specific to a caller id thingy.... not much to analyze there.

:lol:

No apologies necessary.

but for what its worth, " I forgive you my Son.:)"

[Ron-P]

AMPS and RECEIVERS suck ballbags. They are not meant to be together and it doesn't work.
Seems to be working fine. If fact it sounds better, better then the Marantz running solo. May not be the ideal set-up, but adding the Adcom's to the Marantz is an improvement. I will get a pre-amp some day, but for now, it sounds great and works perfectly.

Explain what you mean by, "it doesn't work"?


Peace Out~:D

[phuz]

Ron good luck getting any sort of real answers from liv4fam. I asked him several questions in his last "receivers and amps" thread and I have yet to get any sort of response.

Hey liv4fam can you man up and back up these claims? Help us understand why these things 'suck ballbags?'

Still got tha mcintosh gear in your rack and un-plugged? :lol:

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by Ron-P


Explain what you mean by, "it doesn't work"?


Peace Out~:D

I'll jump on the wagon here as well.

Explain how an h/k 520 used as pre/pro and an Outlaw 7 Channel Amp does not work. :confused:

I guess my Cal Labs CL-20 is a big POS also?

[Ron-P]

I'm looking forward to his response.

But, my gut feeling tells me we are going to hear stuff that resembles a 3 month old after a big nursing. Burp-Up from one end and the ****s out of the other. We'll see.


Peace Out~:D

[liv4fam]

Alright Ron,

I don't know what I am talking about huh? Let me see where to start?

First of all.........Marantz huh? Nice receiver what do you have the SR-14EX? SR18EX? or maybe the 6200 or 9200?
I like the way the Marantz's sound why would you or better yet why did you make the decision to buy and Adcom and put it with it?
Was there something wrong with the amps inside the Marantz?

My whole point with the Amp and receiver thing is (and I have said many times before) why are you buying amplifiers and mating them with receivers?

Personally since I bought my B&K I am sitting here wondering why would I consider putting a Carver 5-channel on my 307.
If I wanted my rig to sound like a crap Carver I would have bought the Sunfire Ultimate Receiver. If I wanted it to sound like an Adcom I would of bought Adcom preamp/amp combo.

Are you starting to see the logic?

All of you are buying receivers that you don't like and are trying to compensate for the sound by adding different amplifiers.

And as far as "it doesn't work" that was a figure of speech and naturally it will work DUH!! but it is not right nor recommended by anyone that knows A/V.............

Simply put a receiver is exactly that an all-in-one box that has everything no accessories required. A receiver lacks the ability to sound like seperates because they tend to generate a lot of internal noise from having video inputs, tuners, shared power supply, RF inputs, phono stage...............Why would you want to pump all that noise into a decent amplifier.

I wouldn't it's absolutely Ludicrus and a big waste of money.

Also let's talk about how all of you think that installers are full of crap and we don't know anything and all of you can do our job and we are retards.

Well let's be honest I have seen all your stuff in System Showcases and WOW I would be embarressed if that was me.
I do like the rear wires going up the wall to the speakers and from under the gear cabinets, speakers sitting on top of subwoofers.

You guys have some really top notch installs but hey any idiot can do it right?
:lol:

[TroyD]

So basically, your position is that an amp in a receiver is the same as a power amp?

If it's such a bad idea, why do receivers have preouts? Why do companies, such as Denon and Outlaw, produce amps specifically for the purpose of being hooked up to the receivers?

Ok, now, let's get down to the pre/pro thing. I'd agree that in a perfect world we would all have them. However, outside of your fantasy world the rest of us live on budgets so we upgrade on a step by step level. Of course you wouldn't know about that, you are used to dealing with gear that other folks have paid for.

As far as other folks rigs go, the only thing that is embarrassing is your lack of respect for anything. Rather than try and be helpful, you choose to be a complete moron. Why not do us all a huge favor and go bless another forum with your expertise?

BDT

[Ron-P]

First of all.........Marantz huh? Nice receiver what do you have
SR5000, Best I could get for my budget. Beautiful receiver. Love it, but love the sound of the Adcom's much more. Even running the Adcom's through the 5000 sounds better then the 5000 on it's own. With only 60wpc, the Adcoms can easily best the 75wpc on the Marantz in overall loudness, crispness and mid-bass punch.


My whole point with the Amp and receiver thing is (and I have said many times before) why are you buying amplifiers and mating them with receivers?
Because, it's the next logical step on the upgrade path that many of us must do over long periods of time. I'd buy a preamp right now, but my wife and daughter come first as does the morgage. What I have left over goes for hobby, which is spread over more areas than just HT. That is why I added the Adcom's to the 5000.


All of you are buying receivers that you don't like and are trying to compensate for the sound by adding different amplifiers.
Not true at all. Like I said, love the sound of the Marantz, bought it way before I knew about separates.


Simply put a receiver is exactly that an all-in-one box that has everything no accessories required. A receiver lacks the ability to sound like seperates because they tend to generate a lot of internal noise from having video inputs, tuners, shared power supply, RF inputs, phono stage...............Why would you want to pump all that noise into a decent amplifier.
I agree with you hear. But, like I said above, I'm in the middle of the upgrade path and will eventually land a preamp, until then, the Marantz and Adcoms do very well.


Peace Out~:D

[mantis]

Troy,
I know you said your peace about the 3 thousand dollar receiver class.But,

A wise man once said: 'stupid is as stupid does'

What does this mean?:confused:

Have you ever done a receiver shootout?Or compared high end receivers to seperates?What do you base this comment on?:confused:

As you already know,I'm building what I feel is going to be the Ultimate Theater,Multichannel audio,2 channel room of my life.I started this thead because I wanted to talk about making the right choices.I'm seriously considering the B&K avr507 for alot of reasons.I Don't wanna give up ANY sound quality for features or space savings.

I demo'd the Sunfire Ultimate receiver against the Kenwood vr5900,the Integra DTR8.2,Denon Avr5803 and the Rotel srp1066 preamp,RMB1076 amp......and l;astly Sunfire Grand Home theater seperates.The Rotel sounded the best folloed by the Carver seperates, then the Sunfire receiver was real close to the Denon avr5803,the Integra outclassed the Kenwood and the Kenwood sound horrible in compare to the rest of the gear.
B&K wasn't in the store which I wish it was.But after the shootout I conducted,B&K has re earned my deepest respect.
I'm sole searching for my next HT pre/amp or receiver.I want to do it right this time.I have owned to many different things in the past and have been unhappy one way or another.

So making comments like the one above ,3 thousand dollar receiver's Pffffffffffffft .......is uncalled for.I read your peace but I wanna know from you 2 me.

[TroyD]

Dan, the quote was a rather sarcastic jab at your partner.

I have apologized for the percieved jab at the flagship receivers. They have thier place, however, IMO, I'd trade a few bells and whistles for separates. To proclaim a receiver as the end all, be all, is just a foolish statement.

BDT

[liv4fam]

If you would trade bells and whistles for seperates why don't you have seperates running your HT?

[TroyD]

1. Money

2. My interest in HT is not that great. I'm MORE than content with my rig. If I were to drop a wad on an upgrade, it would be a sub. Paradigm Servo-15.

BDT

[gidrah]

When you bought that overpriced receiver, did you demo it with your in-walls?

[liv4fam]

did you demo it with your in-walls?


Geeeeeeeeeessssshhhhhhh!!!

Where have you been? Why don't you get caught up before you start blabbing at the mouth.

Some peoples kids!!!!!!!

[gidrah]

Good answer!

[liv4fam]

I thought so.

:D

[gidrah]

You would!

[liv4fam]

Is that all you got?

Go back to the minors!!

You are not worth my time.

I just want to talk to my Bitch.

Where you at Bitch!!!!!!!!!! (TROY)

[mantis]

posted by Girah,

When you bought that overpriced receiver, did you demo it with your in-walls?

Dude,
aside of liv4fam owning them, whats wrong with RBH inwalls?Or any inwall speaker for that matter?I think they sound great and very wife friendly.Big sound no floor space....verycool.RBH just so happens to be a really good speaker company.Not my favorite but good none the less.The RBH inwalls aren't cheap.

And the thing about the receiver being overpriced?Let's see B&K acr307 has won the best of the best 3 times in a row.....the reviewers don't think as you do.

I don't think you can beat it at it's price point.Why do you say this?Aside the pissing contest.:confused:

[faster100]

You know i thought the forum was supposed to be to learn when i came here not jab at people who can't afford to pay thousands for a setup at a whim? I have a Integra receiver and feel it works for me and is what i could afford. To say it or any other typical receiver is junk basically is a bunch of garbage and i will rethink the opinions i have received from certain users on this forum after this post. Thanks for the true insight

[rlw]

Originally posted by faster100
You know i thought the forum was supposed to be to learn when i came here not jab at people who can't afford to pay thousands for a setup at a whim?


Nicely put, faster100.

You're finally learning valuable lessons from TweeterDee and TweeterDum.

Enjoy your gear. What matters is your enjoyment of it, not what gear-flamers post.

[mantis]

You're finally learning valuable lessons from TweeterDee and TweeterDum. ,posted by r/w.........

r/w,
show me where I flammed anyones gear personally.Liv4fam ran wild in here the last 2 days.

I don't believe I deserve this comment.

[mantis]

I guess nobody else wants to talk about my shootout.All energy seems to be directed at the current war.Or was for that matter.

[TroyD]

Sort of like Russ and I. Guilt by association. You are as guilty of that as anyone.

Personally, no, I wouldn't bother with a shootout of flagship receivers as it's not something I would ever buy.

BDT

[RuSsMaN]

Dan, I actually do have some comments forthcoming on your review. Give me a few minutes.

Cheers,
Rooster

[mantis]

Thats cool bud.

[liv4fam]

And so it ended..............................:(

[gidrah]

some inwalls sound almost as good as floor/bookshelves
I'm not a fan of inwalls
don't care for inwalls for music listening unless for background music.


I guess I was just taking your word for it.:lol:

[weavercr]

Hey Mantis can you do a shoot out of say the current models of these two groups. These are similar list price receivers. Most of us in here can afford one of these receivers.

Group 1:
the Denon 3802, the Onkyo 797 and the Marantz 8200?

Group 2:
the Denon 2802, Marantz 7200 and the Onkyo 696?

This would be very helpful to most of us.

[faster100]

I second that,

[VE6OHV]

Read up on the Denon 2802 and the 1803, very close match and for quite a bit less money. I just picked up an 1803 and I am quite pleased.

[F1nut]

VE6OHV,

From an old mud slinger, I'd go with the truck mods.

F1nut

[mantis]

Hey Mantis can you do a shoot out of say the current models of these two groups. These are similar list price receivers. Most of us in here can afford one of these receivers

Well........not head to head.But I can give you some of my feeling towards these receivers.

I'll start here...
the Denon 3802, the Onkyo 797 and the Marantz 8200?
They all have there strengths and weakness.This battle would come down to personal taste,features and such.I have listened to all 3 at one point or another.Marantz wins for pure sound quality.I really like the way they sound.Nicely built and loaded with features.Worth every penny.
Denon avr3802.....probably the best all around receiver for 1200.00 or less.It only lacks in digital inputs.3 optical and one coax.......But 7.1 built in powered second zone with surround amps reassigned,all todays formats,and It mates extremely well with Polk rt series speakers.Nice.....
Now for last place.......Onkyo...I feel like this,if your going to get into Onkyo,it pays to consider there upper end receivers in the Integra.Better amps,better DAC's better built quality and better sound.Also nice but it's bright.To me I find Integra/Onkyo products to stress high's......like Yamaha does.I don't care for them.

Group 2 you can relate my group one.Lower level but same lineup.

I think all of you should do some shootouts.There alot of fun and you get to know the charastic's of different companies.It's cool.

Marantz,Denon then Integra/Onkyo in that order.

At these price points,It also pays to consider a Rotel rsx1055.Super cool ass receiver that sounds better by far then the above.It's rated at 70x5 but thats Rotel power.....so it will smoke just about every single 100 watt rated receiver on the market.I personally had to buy in that price range, it would be my first choice.Check it out and tell me how and what you feel/think.