Is the Parasound 2205 for me (and my RTis)?

[dbaldus]

So I'm considering purchasing a Parasound 2205 but am hesitating due to my previous experience with purchasing an amp and having to send it back.

I recently purchased an Emotiva LPA-1 to use with my H/K 247 as a pre and sent it back because it didn't make a big enough difference to me. In fact, the only thing that I really noticed was that I didn't have to turn the volume up nearly as loud to get to the same volume level, which, in my opinion, was not worth the $450. In the end, I ended up spending about $70 on shipping to and from Emotiva but learned that the 130 wpc was not enough to make a difference for me, so I guess it was worth it.

However, now I'm considering spending more than twice as much on a Parasound amp to power my system:

H/K 247
Rti70s
CSi40
R15

So, after hearing that I was not impressed with the LPA-1, what are everyone's thoughts on me purchasing the 2205? If I were to buy it and actually notice a huge difference in sound quality, I would not feel as if my money were wasted. On the other hand, if I buy a used amp, I would probably be stuck with it if I didn't like it since there is no "return policy" on used amps. I'd just really like to try it out first, if ya know what I mean, but don't know anyone in Iowa that would be willing to stop by so I think that would be hard to do!

[tcrossma]

You can always resell it if it doesn't work out for you.

[dbaldus]

You can always resell it if it doesn't work out for you.

Good advice, but what if I can't for some reason? Then I'm stuck with a $1000 amp (seems like that is about what you can get them for nowadays used) that I don't need!

And, just out of curiosity, do you know if Parasound's warranty transfers between owners?

[dkg999]

I don't believe the Parasound warranty transfers to the next owner.

If you didn't hear much difference with a 130 wpc external amp, then I'm not sure you will be pleased with the 2205. Even with twice the power there won't be a huge difference in volume levels prior to clipping. The external amp should provide a difference in dynamics and bring more life to the sound. If you're not hearing that, then save your money. I know that when I put a good amp behind my RTi70's there is a difference. I'm running mine with a 125 wpc Adcom.

[dbaldus]

I don't believe the Parasound warranty transfers to the next owner.

If you didn't hear much difference with a 130 wpc external amp, then I'm not sure you will be pleased with the 2205. Even with twice the power there won't be a huge difference in volume levels prior to clipping. The external amp should provide a difference in dynamics and bring more life to the sound. If you're not hearing that, then save your money. I know that when I put a good amp behind my RTi70's there is a difference. I'm running mine with a 125 wpc Adcom.

What were you powering it with before?

Also, I have heard that the RTis are easy to drive (as opposed to something like the LSi series), so adding external amplification doesn't make that big of a difference. I think the problem with the Emotiva was that it was rated at 135 wpc, whereas my 247 has been tested to output close to 100 wpc even though it is rated for much less. Basically, I think the 247 was just so good that adding a few extra watts (when I really thought that I was doubling the watts just by looking at the specs) didn't make much of a difference.

[dkg999]

I've powered my RTi70's with a Yamaha Rxv-1400 AVR, with Outlaw M200 mono-blocks, and with an H&K PA2000 amp. They are now in the bedroom HT system being powered by an Adcom 7605 at 125 wpc. If you're just looking for a change in loudness, then you're not going to benefit from an external amp.

[dbaldus]

I've powered my RTi70's with a Yamaha Rxv-1400 AVR, with Outlaw M200 mono-blocks, and with an H&K PA2000 amp. They are now in the bedroom HT system being powered by an Adcom 7605 at 125 wpc. If you're just looking for a change in loudness, then you're not going to benefit from an external amp.

Whoa... no, no, no, I'm NOT just looking for a change in loudness. I'm looking for a change in the clarity of my speakers, soundstage, dynamics, etc. that everyone else talks about. The problem for me was that when I stepped up to the LPA-1 to my 247, the only thing that I noticed WAS the loudness. I wanted all of the above, with loudness being absolutely the least important of all.

[dorokusai]

The warranty doesn't transfer and yes, that's a solid amplifier. Do you need it?

[venomclan]

A speaker change will yield far more results than an amp change. While the Parasound is a nice amp, it or any other amp may not produce what you are looking for. I put nice amps on my RT16's and B&W's that yielded better results, but I had to switch speakers to get the whole package.
Venom

[dbaldus]

Do you need it?

What do you mean "need"? I have a craving for it that won't go away no matter how badly I tell myself that I don't need it. I'm just curious to see if I really am getting everything out of my speakers that I could, if that makes sense? So, in a way, I guess that I "need to know" but don't really know if I "need it"...

[mhartman29]

dbaldus, sorry if I already asked you this, but what kind of speaker wire and interconnects were you using? Maybe Kex will disagree, but I honestly feel that might have contributed to the differences in our experiences. I ordered the Emotiva lmc/lpa combo and couldn't be happier with it -- with a few exceptions not related to sound. Maybe you are in the same boat and the Parasound might not be any different?

[dbaldus]

dbaldus, sorry if I already asked you this, but what kind of speaker wire and interconnects were you using? Maybe Kex will disagree, but I honestly feel that might have contributed to the differences in our experiences. I ordered the Emotiva lmc/lpa combo and couldn't be happier with it -- with a few exceptions not related to sound. Maybe you are in the same boat and the Parasound might not be any different?

Just using "regular" 12gauge speaker wire with "regular" interconnects (monoprice). My viewpoint was that if I wasn't able to notice a difference using regular cables, that I didn't want to spend another $100+ on good interconnects to see a "slight improvement in quality" (as most say) and be stuck with those that I couldn't return as well. However, if I would have been happy and noticed a difference with the Emotiva initially, then I would have evenutally bought better interconnects to squeeze out every last ounce from the system.

On the other hand, you may be completely right that ICs do make all the difference in the world. I've never compared, so I probably shouldn't talk :)

[Face]

This has been beat to death here many times. I/C can make a huge difference. If you're not convinced, buy some used I/C. Try them out, and if you're still not convinced, sell them and get your money back. There are also companies like SignalCable who offer a 30 day guarantee. http://signalcable.com/return_policy.html

I use Signal Analog Two cables with bullet connectors in my HT rig.

[mhartman29]

I really recommend you try them. There has to be a plausible explanation for why some of us have had extremely positive reviews of the emotiva gear and you and Kex were ambivalent. Like Face said, Signal has a 30 day money back guarantee. Order the Analog II interconnects, which both Face and I use, and try them out. Even better, get the Ultra speakers wires as well. If we're wrong, you are only out $10-15 shipping?

You are willing to play $1000 to upgrade your sound. Spend the extra couple of hundred to make sure you are doing it right!

[dbaldus]

I really recommend you try them. There has to be a plausible explanation for why some of us have had extremely positive reviews of the emotiva gear and you and Kex were ambivalent. Like Face said, Signal has a 30 day money back guarantee. Order the Analog II interconnects, which both Face and I use, and try them out. Even better, get the Ultra speakers wires as well. If we're wrong, you are only out $10-15 shipping?

You are willing to play $1000 to upgrade your sound. Spend the extra couple of hundred to make sure you are doing it right!

Point well taken. Now I have to decide if I am really willing to spend $1000 to upgrade my sound... which brings us back to the point of discussion here on this thread.

Is the Parasound really leaps and bounds better than the Emotiva, especially in the case of DRIVING THE RTI LINE? If so, I'd probably be willing to give it a try. Let me hear your thoughts! Or would the Parasound be overkill?

[dkg999]

If you get the Parasound 2205 you won't have to worry about buying another amplifier for your HT. You can then move up to a dedicated pre/pro at some point. If you someday move up to the LSi speakers, you wouldn't have to change amplifiers. All these advantages even if you don't hear an immediate or life-changing difference.

[Kex]

Just using "regular" 12gauge speaker wire with "regular" interconnects (monoprice). My viewpoint was that if I wasn't able to notice a difference using regular cables, that I didn't want to spend another $100+ on good interconnects to see a "slight improvement in quality" (as most say) and be stuck with those that I couldn't return as well. However, if I would have been happy and noticed a difference with the Emotiva initially, then I would have evenutally bought better interconnects to squeeze out every last ounce from the system. ...
My viewpoint exactly. I would also have bought better ICs eventually too, but I'm just not convinced that Emotiva have put the same quality into the LMC-1/LPA-1 as they may have put into their more expensive gear. There should have been a more tangible difference to begin with using good quality "entry level" (Monster Cable or Monoprice) ICs and wires.

I am going to try and get that NAD I was after, if things work out. We shall see if there are other issues than just pure w/ch involved here. I am at exactly the same point in my investigation of better sound as dbaldus.

[dkg999]

Sometimes you just have to kick back and enjoy your HT and not put so much thought into it ;)

[dbaldus]

Sometimes you just have to kick back and enjoy your HT and not put so much thought into it ;)

Amen to that!

(I just wish that I could...)

[dbaldus]

My viewpoint exactly. I would also have bought better ICs eventually too, but I'm just not convinced that Emotiva have put the same quality into the LMC-1/LPA-1 as they may have put into their more expensive gear. There should have been a more tangible difference to begin with using good quality "entry level" (Monster Cable or Monoprice) ICs and wires.

I am going to try and get that NAD I was after, if things work out. We shall see if there are other issues than just pure w/ch involved here. I am at exactly the same point in my investigation of better sound as dbaldus.

Keep me updated. Now I'm thinking about getting a nice SVS sub instead of an amp just because I'm not sure if an amp will be a good upgrade or not, but am fairly sure that upgrading from my 200w Infinity amp to an SVS will be noticeable immediately ;)

If you find out that it does make a difference, well, then maybe I'll go back with the amp idea after all.

[dkg999]

If you don't hear a significant difference from adding the SVS sub, check your pulse :p

[Mike Reeter]

I used to run RTi70's and a CSi40 in my HT front end...powered by a Denon 3803 AVR.

I added an SVS PC-Ultra,and my jaw litterly hit the floor...A match made in Heaven.. The RTi70's are a great,very efficient set of mains,that don't require a monster amp. to make them sound good.

Upgrade your i/c's and speaker cables and buy a good sub...your heart will dance:D

[dbaldus]

I used to run RTi70's and a CSi40 in my HT front end...powered by a Denon 3803 AVR.

I added an SVS PC-Ultra,and my jaw litterly hit the floor...A match made in Heaven.. The RTi70's are a great,very efficient set of mains,that don't require a monster amp. to make them sound good.

Upgrade your i/c's and speaker cables and buy a good sub...your heart will dance:D

What kind of sub did you have before you got the SVS?

Also, did you ever start powering the 70s and the 40 with an external amp? Was there a major difference? As big of a difference as getting a new sub?

[Mike Reeter]

I had a Polk 450 something...sold it and stepped up to the SVS...Never added any external amp.to the mix...did'nt feel like I needed to.

You will hear a difference,as stated,you should be hearing more clarity and better "punch",but better i/c's and speaker cable will do a lot for your sound also.

I currently have RTi12's and a CSi5 up front,powered by Adcom amps...the 12's need extra power plus.

I still miss the RTi70's..I have located a new pair in the box at a Polk dealer near by...I'm very tempted to pick em' up... for HT and casual listening they are hard to beat.

[Dennis Gardner]

I agree with Mike that the '70s really don't demand external power and a great sub makes a night and day difference with that speaker choice. The RTi70s sound much better crossed over at 80hz than being run full range. I still have my '70s/CSi30 rig in my main living area running with a receiver.

Amps don't shine unless the speaker size, efficiency or impedance drop require the extra current of a separate amp.

Buy a real sub..............

[Mike Reeter]

I agree with Mike that the '70s really don't demand external power and a great sub makes a night and day difference with that speaker choice. The RTi70s sound much better crossed over at 80hz than being run full range. I still have my '70s/CSi30 rig in my main living area running with a receiver.

Amps don't shine unless the speaker size, efficiency or impedance drop require the extra current of a separate amp.

Buy a real sub..............

The SVS and the 70's have a seamless sound...from top to bottom.

Of course,an SVS will make any speaker shine.

[dbaldus]

So it seems to me that the general opinion is that I should get a sub instead of an amp.

Now my next question is this... will a PB12-Plus/2 be absolutely overkill for my setup? I'm thinking about getting an SB12-Plus instead (comparing used prices that I've found, I can get it for about $350 cheaper than the PB12-Plus/2), or is the PB12-Plus/2 really THAT much better than the SB12-Plus, and not just in terms of loudness?

In other words, I just have a medium sized room, and wonder if I would just be wasting potential with the PB and maybe I could just save the $350 instead and use the SB to its full potential? Any thoughts on this?

[dkg999]

If your going HT mainly, go PB12+. I have the SB12+, great sub, use it with Magnepans for 2 ch, also have a PC20-39pc+ sub. There is a difference :D

[Dennis Gardner]

ahh, grasshopper......................since upgrade-itus is a strong trait in your makeup, always buy the most/best your wallet can afford, since you will always wonder if you should have gone bigger/better, and buy good used gear to minimize your exposure in trades.

If someone would have given me this advice $20k ago, I would still have $20k.

[dbaldus]

If your going HT mainly, go PB12+. I have the SB12+, great sub, use it with Magnepans for 2 ch, also have a PC20-39pc+ sub. There is a difference :D

Well, does gaming (mixed in Dolby Digital or DTS, of course!) count as HT? Because its probably 70% that, 30% 2-channel music or so, unless you count "Rock Band" as music, in which case I'd say 50/50 ;)

And how do you feel about my comment of "wasting potential" on the PB? I'm just worried that there may be a difference between the two, but only a difference that I would notice if I suddenly had a huge room that the SB couldn't take care of on its own...

[dkg999]

My recommendation to go with the PB12+ based on what you have posted stands.

Others opinions may differ. If you want to go with the SB12+, then do that. Let us know how it works out.

[Mike Reeter]

Alot of you sub needs are based around your room size,sq. ft.,ect.

Give SVS a call or e-mail...they will not "over sell" you.

They know their stuff

[beardog03]

have the 2205a, and it is a rock solid amp...the last one you will ever need IMO..

I have the Denon 3802 (3)?, and started with the RTi speaks, and have since moved into the Lsi`s....

She works very well with both..

If you have the grip...get it...
Parasound does not transfer warrenty, but it is a rock solid Company, and thier products follow suit....IMO

and remember...CABLES DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.....get quality cables

[Ron Temple]

Maybe external amps won't bring audio nirvana to the RTxxi(whatever itineration) as a first step. Perhaps you need to upgrade the whole system first. I started upgrading subs first and once fairly satisfied...amps/ICs were the next notch up, but the most dramatic upgrade was a capable sub. Great advice here. The difference between a capable ID sub vs. entry level or retail is pretty astounding and might just be what the doctor ordered.

SVS/Hsu/Outlaw/Epik and if you can wait for it, eD, will get your jaw on the floor. Then start thinking about the incremental improvements that we (don't necessarily overstate) gush about.