SDA-1C refurb....finally got pics!

[geoff727]

The first part of this is pictures of the speakers when I bought them several months ago. They had been well enjoyed by the previous owner and his friends........But, it was time for a little refurbishment. The first post is the "before". The second post is the "after".

This is the first time I've ever worked on a speaker, so it was all a new experience. The process is pretty obvious from the pics, but here's the specifics:

1) New padouk wood end caps with lacquer finish. It's hard to tell from the pictures, but they're actually perfectly smooth. The sanding process consisted of 340 grit, then 400, then 600, then wet-sand with 2000, then a polishing compound, then furniture polish. The attachment for them was changed from glue & staples to anchor bolts.

2) Upgraded all binding posts.

3) Re-did the internal wiring.

4) Upgraded the crossovers.

5) Modified the side grilles to be removable.

6) New cloth on all grilles.

7) Upgraded the SDA Interconnect cable.

8) RD0194 tweeters.

More pics coming up....

[geoff727]

Here's the externals....

[geoff727]

Here's the internals...

[geoff727]

Hope you all enjoy these. Big thanks to Jeff at Soniccraft, Ken at Polk, DarqueKnight-Raife, and many other members of the forum, for their assistance asnd advice on this project.

All listening time so far has confirmed one thing......I'm a little embarrassed to say this, but the -1C's are wiping the floor with the stock 2.3tl's. Detail, clarity, bass definition, not to mention good looks......all are substantially improved (you all knew that already).

Now......on to the Infinity's!

[Ricardo]

Awesome job; those look beautiful, and I bet they sound better.

I even think I like your wood better than Sal's

[geoff727]

I spent a couple hours at CrossCut Hardwoods in Seattle, just wandering and pondering. I always came back to the padouk, and now I'm very glad I did. I absolutely love it.

I left out one area of the upgrade- the room itself. Since the room is a little "compact" for SDA's, I had to do a lot of experimentation in getting some side-wall reflections under control. Hanging rugs and heavy curtains, strategically placed, can work wonders!

[tx_polkhead]

wow just wow, you sir should be upgraded from 'Polkster' to SDA Surgeon! They look like a million bucks, so when is the party?

[dorokusai]

The wood caps look beautiful, nice work.

[Windwalker]

VERY Nicely done, gives me some ideas for my SDA 2Bs

The band-aide adds a nice touch or realism as well

[george daniel]

absolutely beautiful,,I know that you're proud of them,,very nice work,indeed.

[Marty913]

Beautiful. My 1C's are studio versions so maybe the woodwork part is out but you gave me some good ideas for the rest of it. Just finished my 2's so even that might have to wait a while. I'll be sure and refer back to your pictures when I get started. Enjoy.

[geoff727]

Thanks for all the compliments!!

Windwalker.....I was cutting the insulation on the new wire for the speakers, and SLICE!
I actually had to crop the picture so I didn't post anything unsightly! :)

[geoff727]

Marty913, how about some real wood veneer for those studios? I'm sure something really creative could be done. I think it's boywonder on the forum who just did his Monitor 10's, and they look great.

[Marty913]

Marty913, how about some real wood veneer for those studios? I'm sure something really creative could be done. I think it's boywonder on the forum who just did his Monitor 10's, and they look great.

I will tackle anything electronic (amps, XO's, computers, etc.) but get me near wood and you might as well hire termites to do the work. My 1C's are 1-owner and absolutely scratch-and-dent free so I'd be especially afraid to go after them with woodworking tools. The work you did on your XO's, internal wiring and binding posts is inspiring however. That's a real possibility.

[Face]

Beautiful! Too bad Sal isn't here to see. :)

[Mike Reeter]

Man,Those are some beautiful 1C's..you have done a great job and should be very proud of your new SDA's.

I had a very nice pair of 1C's that had the x-overs rebuilt and new binding posts installed...I sold them and have regretted it ever since.

They would hold up to my 2.3TL's without any problems...

On the hunt for another pair,but they are sooo scarce in my part of the country.

[schwarcw]

Congrats and WOW!

You did a wonderful job. The electronics and the woodwork are both first class. You are living large! These are fun projects, I'm glad it all worked out so well for you. Have fun!:)

[BobMcG]

Very nice work.

[heiney9]

Nice work!! Enjoy them. My 1C's have the same upgrades sans the new wood end caps and I love the way they sound.

Very nice job.

[cubdog]

Great job. They are beautiful.

cubdog

[DarqueKnight]

That's some inspirational work. Congrats.

Did you do any comparison between the sound of the stock internal wiring and the new wires?

[geoff727]

Did you do any comparison between the sound of the stock internal wiring and the new wires?

No, I just put it in there. I don't know if the difference is within the range of human hearing or not. But, I subjectively feel better about them knowing that they have good quality wiring inside.

Thanks for the compliments, everyone. I sure am excited about how they turned out. Don't tell this to my supervisor, but a couple days ago I called in sick, and I just sat at home and listened to music for pretty much the whole day. I guess that in itself is a good sign......any "listening fatigue" issues have largely been solved with the upgrades.

[F1nut]

Nice job all around, congrats!

Please don't take this the wrong way, it's offered as a tip only. If you want a totally "glass" surface on wood with pores you have to fill the grain with paste wood filler or shoot on like 20 coats and then cut it back. I prefer to fill the grain.

[george daniel]

Nice job all around, congrats!

Please don't take this the wrong way, it's offered as a tip only. If you want a totally "glass" surface on wood with pores you have to fill the grain with paste wood filler or shoot on like 20 coats and then cut it back. I prefer to fill the grain.

for those of us who are woodworking "challenged",,could you explain what that means, as I've got some endcaps on 1C's that I either have to replace or refinish. TIA

[Boywonder]

Excellent Job! Now I am tempted to re-do my 1C studios, Padouk seems to be the SDA wood of choice these days!

George, here is the basic procedure for a "glass" finish (pretty much also summarized by Geoff727 and F1nut above)

Certain woods with open pores (mahogany, oak, etc) will take alot of work to get a "glass" finish, ie one that is totally smooth without the final finish dipping into the pores. Dense, tighter grained woods are easier (cherry, maple, etc.) The pores need to be filled up to the surface of the woodgrain before the top coats are applied. One way to do it is with several coats of "sanding sealer" (2-3 coats max), sand with 320 paper until smooth, than many coats of lacquer (10-15) then wet sand the lacquer topcoat with 600 emory paper (only sand until you get a smooth surface, the objective here is to sand down the topcoat until the pore "dips" are no longer visible-your "glass" finish) use a flat sanding block by hand, and water (to keep the paper from clogging), it's easy to sand through 15 coats of lacquer. Then use automotive rubbing compound to lose the 600 paper scratches, then use automotive polishing compound to remove the swirls from the rubbing compound, then wax with automotive paste wax, and voila-a glass-smooth finish.

It's way easier than I described, spray lacquer dries in seconds, so 15 coats can be applied in less than an hour. You can also use the above technique with polyurethane, etc, but the drying time is very long, and sometimes the wet sanding, rubbing and polishing can be a chore, as some finishes are harder than woodpecker lips. Lacquer is easy, that's why it's used for "glass-shiny" finishes. Lacquer is also easy to fix when you screw up, as it will re-melt the old finish when re-sprayed.

Don't use more than 2-3 coats of sanding sealer if you want a stunning grain pattern to show; too many coats will start hiding the grain. Also, another trick with top coats is if you want a satin or flat finish, spray most of the topcoats with gloss, and the last one or two with satin or flat. This also allows the grain to show since the satin and flat finishes are not as clear due to the "flatteners" in the finish.

[geoff727]

Ono of the things that really attracted me to the padouk was the texture of the wood. I definitely wanted that to come through in the fnal finish. These had quite a few coats of lacquer on them. The first sand was with 320 to git rid of any "orange peel" on the surface. This was definitely the most difficult and time-consuming stage of the sanding process. Progressive sanding was just done with finer and finer grits to eliminate any scratches.

Unfortunately, the real finish of these doesn't quite come through in the pictures. Maybe if I took some really good-quality photos with my Canon AE-1 and scanned them, instead of using the digital camera, maybe that would help. In reality, the finish is totally smooth, but with the grain of the wood coming through. The "bumpiness" that is seen in the photos, I think is the digital capturing that wood grain. When you run your had across them, they're just like a babie's b@#$tt.

[geoff727]

Let's try these. I tried to get a decent reflection from the wall rug to show the finish and an illustration of the grain coming through the lacquer on the fronts at the same time.

[NJPOLKER]

Geoff
Excellent work to say the least.
I hope everyone who is on the fence regarding crossover upgrades reads this thread.
Drew

[Boywonder]

That wood looks awesome. That's just the padouk with lacquer on top (ie no stain)??

[geoff727]

That's just the padouk with lacquer on top (ie no stain)??

Correct, no stain. BTW, how are the 10's?

[Roy Munson]

Those are sweeeeeeeet!

[hearingimpared]

Beautiful work!

[F1nut]

Let's try these. I tried to get a decent reflection from the wall rug to show the finish and an illustration of the grain coming through the lacquer on the fronts at the same time.


Right and I'm just saying if you want a true glass surface without the pore pits showing you can fill the grain.

[F1nut]

for those of us who are woodworking "challenged",,could you explain what that means, as I've got some endcaps on 1C's that I either have to replace or refinish. TIA

My preferred method differs from Boywonder's. I fill the grain with a paste wood filler applied by brush or rag, then scrap off the excess, let dry 24 hrs., then sand smooth. Apply color, I prefer dye stains and then topcoat with lacquer. Unless the coats are applied very lightly, it takes more than seconds for the lacquer to dry, more like 5 to 15 minutes per coat. Anyway, after applying up to 20 coats, you should wait until the lacquer gets a good cure going (about a week) before the rubbing out process. I start with 320 serrated, then move to 400 wet/dry using soapy water as a lubricant, followed by 600, 800, 1000, 1200. At this point there shouldn't be any sanding scratches left, if there are you need to get them out. This is followed by applying 3M liquid Super Duty Rubbing Compound using a variable speed polishing machine and pad. Next, use 3M Mirco Fine Polishing Compound with a dedicated pad and then use 3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze with the special foam pad to remove swirl marks. The result is the ultimate in high gloss, smooth as glass finishes.

[BobMcG]

Don't tell this to my supervisor, but a couple days ago I called in sick, and I just sat at home and listened to music for pretty much the whole day.

Seriously, this is the path to ruin that SDAs can lead you down. Just plain evil is what they are.

[geoff727]

Right and I'm just saying if you want a true glass surface without the pore pits showing you can fill the grain.

Sounds like we basically do the same thing, except I wanted the texture of the wood to come through more so I didn't fill the grain.

[F1nut]

Roger that. Again, you did a nice job and hopefully will enjoy them for years to come.

[Boywonder]

geoff727-The monitors are coming along, a little slow, due to the rain in SoCal. Things have dried out enough now to continue the final lacquer coats this weekend, I need to put the satin coats down on top of the gloss, then wait a couple of days (probably 3-4), then do the sand, rubbing compound, polishing compound stuff discussed above. I probably will not wax because I am going for a non-gloss finish on these. BTW, the pores are also not filled in on the monitor 10's since I am not going for mirror-gloss. I put solens, new binding posts, and ditched/jumpered the polyswitches in the crossovers the other nite so I am gettting close.

I am afraid that it would be just my luck that I get blushing in the lacquer close to the end of this project due to humidity, so I am trying to be patient.

[geoff727]

Roger that. Again, you did a nice job and hopefully will enjoy them for years to come.

I would love to enjoy them for years to come. However, certain parties, who shall remain nameless, are already pressuring me to git rid of them!! Can you believe it? After all that work.:confused:
I just don't get it. Refurbing these is certainly much less expensive than a brand new pair of something, and much more rewarding. I quote....
"Why do you need all these speakers?" (I have 4 pairs of Polks, 2 pairs of Infinitys, and 1 pair of Missions. After all the refurbs, I'm only planning on keeping 3 or 4 pairs)
Me: "Well, it's not a matter of 'need'. It's a matter of enjoyment. Having a hobby. Something I love. Would you rather I do this or sit in front of the TV all night?"
"But what are you going to do with all of them? You can only listen to one pair at a time."
"I'm going to enjoy them. This pair for a few months, that pair for a few months, etc."
"This is just a foolish obsession."
"Well we ALL have our little 'obsessions'. Shall we talk about some of yours now?"

You all know the rest of the story.

Anyway, thanks for all the compliments! All those compliments certainly outweigh the "opinions" of some others!:)

[Marty913]

"Well we ALL have our little 'obsessions'. Shall we talk about some of yours now?"

I think you were probably OK up until this point.

[redbullet]

Super Job !

[george daniel]

My preferred method differs from Boywonder's. I fill the grain with a paste wood filler applied by brush or rag, then scrap off the excess, let dry 24 hrs., then sand smooth. Apply color, I prefer dye stains and then topcoat with lacquer. Unless the coats are applied very lightly, it takes more than seconds for the lacquer to dry, more like 5 to 15 minutes per coat. Anyway, after applying up to 20 coats, you should wait until the lacquer gets a good cure going (about a week) before the rubbing out process. I start with 320 serrated, then move to 400 wet/dry using soapy water as a lubricant, followed by 600, 800, 1000, 1200. At this point there shouldn't be any sanding scratches left, if there are you need to get them out. This is followed by applying 3M liquid Super Duty Rubbing Compound using a variable speed polishing machine and pad. Next, use 3M Mirco Fine Polishing Compound with a dedicated pad and then use 3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze with the special foam pad to remove swirl marks. The result is the ultimate in high gloss, smooth as glass finishes.

Damn,, this isn't going to be easy,,truely, a labor of love. I think that I'm up for it,,thanks for the insight--I'll post some B&A pic's,,,, maybe :confused:

[engtaz]

Very very nice job. Laz would be proud of your color choice. Now how about your other speakers. This new job makes the other pair screen me next.

Congrats on a great job,
engtaz

[jazzisnumberone]

Awesome looking speakers!!!!

[obieone]

Sweet, Sweet, Sweet!!!

[geoff727]

What do you all think of this for the 2.3tl's...

Endcaps done in a dark walnut, and the addition of side strips like the other SRS's have.
I think that would look just amazing. In any case, they're going to have to wait in line behind the Infinities.
BTW, why were the 2.3's/2.3tl's the only SRS's without the side wood strips? I should have done the -1C's with the side strips. That really would have looked awesome. I just love the combination of black cloth, red wood, gold grille logos.

[SpeedyFE]

A true craftsman, congrats..

[cambir]

geoff, your "new" SDAs look incredible - nice work. If/when I decide to update my recently purchased 2Bs, maybe I'll have to hire you to do the work. :D

[Lasareath]

Very very nice job. Laz would be proud of your color choice.

Very Nice Job there Geoff, Welcome to the African Padauk Family. We're the first two Polkies with Padauk end caps!

Did you use an oil based lacquer or water based?

And where did you get the Padauk?, I just bought (4) more pieces 25" by 15" by 1.25" to use my new SRS 2's I'm getting.

I really like your use of monster cable on the crossovers. I want to rip out all of the internal wiring in my 1.2's and replace them with Ben's silver braided wires or just some all silver braided 14 gauge wire.

I just don’t want to start such a large project and not have a pair of SDA's to listen to. So I may start it after I am done with the SRS 2’s

I also like that you finished the underside of the end caps, I thought about doing it but I was getting antsy and I wanted to finish up already.

Also I was a little concerned that the lacquer would act as a glue and when the hanger bolts are tightened down that the ends caps would be impossible to remove without ripping the boards to pieces or taking chunks out of the speaker boxes.

But, All in All they look awesome!!!, Congrats!!!

Sal

[geoff727]

We're the first two Polkies with Padauk end caps!


Isn't that just the prettiest stuff ever? I love it. In fact, I've been into several high-end stores since I did the -1C's, and I no wood or finish that I've seen on any speaker lights me on fire like the padouk.

Did you use an oil based lacquer or water based?

Water based.

And where did you get the Padauk??

CrossCut Hardwoods in downtown Seattle.


I just bought (4) more pieces 25" by 15" by 1.25" to use my new SRS 2's I'm getting.

Quit it. You're making me jealous!


Also I was a little concerned that the lacquer would act as a glue and when the hanger bolts are tightened down that the ends caps would be impossible to remove without ripping the boards to pieces or taking chunks out of the speaker boxes.

On the top pieces, I used a square between the wood and enclosure of very thin, very compressible low-density foam so there's just an um-teenth of an inch between them. I should have done it to the bottoms too.

One of these days I'll jump into the 2.3tl's. Many projects in between now and then, though!
Sal, I'm glad you saw them, I thought you'd appreciate that wood.
Cambir, I'm sending you a Private Message.

[Lasareath]

Sal, I'm glad you saw them, I thought you'd appreciate that wood.

They Look AWESOME!!!

I can tell you have alot more knowledge with wood than I do. This was my first finish woodworking job in like 24 years. At like 14 years old I made a really cool wagon in wood-shop class. That was my last wood working project.

[geoff727]

Well, here's the thing about that....
I had to have the endcaps cut for me. Since I'm living in an apartment right now, I just don't have access to any of the stuff that we need to do projects like this (very embarrassing). So, I selected the wood, my local woodworker buddy cut them for me, and I did the finish and attachment work.
What I wouldn't give to have my own garage right now.....
If it was up to me, I would have cut each one as a single piece, like you did. But he's a pretty experienced woodworker, and he insisted that they would stand the test of time better if they were each made of two horizontally laminated pieces. So, that's what I got. In some places you can see where the lamination is, and in other it's invisible.
Anyway, I'm glad you like them.

[bikerboy]

Hi Geoff,

Beautiful work on the speakers. I cant believe you did all that sanding and spraying in an apartment! I'm jealous of you for having such great speakers. Someday I will find a pair of i-c and have to do the kind of upgrades you have. I have thought of upgrading my 2-a but think I will wait and get a pair of the bigger sda. Great job!

[geoff727]

Any Seattle-area Polkies are more than welcome to drop in. Bring caps & resistors, a crossover board, your favorite music, and I'll supply the beer. How can you refuse an offer like that?:cool:

[Lasareath]

and he insisted that they would stand the test of time better if they were each made of two horizontally laminated pieces. So, that's what I got.

Really?, he said that?,

How did he join them?, dowels and glue?

I don't think I will ever have an issue with my full width 13.25" boards, it's not like they are going to be stored in a damp basement.

The Bases and tops that have cracked on the Polks I think have been because two different pieces of wood were joined together and some boards must have dried & shrunk at different rates and so the seams just split apart.

I don't think you will have that issue if you used all the same wood.

Sal

[geoff727]

Well, I guess if they crack at some point and I have to re-do them, then I shall have to give him a very hard time!! I think (but not certain) that the reason that the original SRS's encaps (made of solid wood) cracked and split was because of slightly different cuts/densities of the laminations.

In fact, I was thinking for the 2.3tl's, to definitely do the endcaps done as one piece, and even make them a quarter of an inch thicker so the wood "jumps out at you" a little more.

[Boywonder]

To minimize warping, cupping, etc. my experience is that it's best to glue-up 2"-3" wide pieces instead of using one solid (wide) piece of wood, although the early SRS oak endcaps were constructed this way and have not withstood the test of time well; an even more stable construction is veneered MDF, as Polk employed long ago.

Face cut oak is particularly hard to get stability with one wide piece. Quarter/rift sawn oak is a little better, but I would still make a glue-up anyway. Quarter sawn stock is generally hard to find wider than about 6-8" anyway.

The reason that tabletops (or early SRS endcaps) are glue-ups is for stability. Glue-ups have adjacent pieces with different grain, so that each piece will move a little due to humidity, moisture, etc. but the net effect is no big movement (warping/cupping) just even swelling.

I've done glue-ups with just PVA glue, and with biscuits, and have not had any failures so I can't say if additional mechanical fastening (dowels, biscuits, etc.) are really required. Doweling can be a complete pain in the ass, that's why we have biscuits.

Backpriming (finishing the backside) also helps reduce warping and cupping, since all sides absorb moisture equally.

I haven't made anything with padauk (yet!) so I have zero experience with it.

[zingo]

Amazing work Geoff. You are a master craftsman to no end. Thanks for keeping another pair of SDAs loud and proud.

[geoff727]

Zingo, I'll give you a call...

Boywonder, my woodworker, Scott, said that padouk is filled with carcinogens. When I went into his shop as he was working on them, everything (including him) was orange all over, and he had a hefty facemask on so he didn't breathe any of the dust!

[scootchu]

Very nice job. Someday I will trade my little Polks for a big set of SDA's.

[dbnh]

Any Seattle-area Polkies are more than welcome to drop in. Bring caps & resistors, a crossover board, your favorite music, and I'll supply the beer. How can you refuse an offer like that?:cool:Wish you were in NH. :( I'm a homebrewer, too, who could swap suds for soldering. ;)

[Polksaladanni]

Wow! That wood naturally clears that way?

Funny my oak paneling in the house has "yellowed" to a color close to that.

I might as well look at cherry options now.

You did a very, very nice job inside anf out.

Their Buets.

Paul

[geoff727]

Wow! That wood naturally clears that way?

Funny my oak paneling in the house has "yellowed" to a color close to that.

I might as well look at cherry options now.

You did a very, very nice job inside anf out.

Their Buets.

Paul

Paul,
Thanks for the compliment. The padouk wood, unfinished, is a very orange-y color. But finished with lacquer or acrylic, that deep red comes out. It really is magnificent wood.

[gdb]

One important thing to keep in mind is that wood moves,sometimes a lot. A 12 inch wide board can vary as much as 1/4" in width if humidity levels change. If fastening a wide panel of solid wood, (end caps) I would recommend fastening across the front edges with screws,tee nuts or other threaded insert fasteners. Across the rear edges make an elongated hole in the cabinet to allow the fasteners going into the cap to move front to back, and don't crank them down too tight either. This method will allow the minor but inevitable movement to happen without creating splits in solid panels or glue line failures in built up panels. My plan is to biscuit solid wood edging to 1 1/8 inch MDF that's been veneered. Hope this helps, and very nice job BTW!!!!:)
gdb