Polk Speakers new vs. old-how do they stack up ?

[lakesailor]

In spite of being new here I can see that most everyone loves their vintage Polk’s as much as I have loved my 11T’s. As they are getting close to 20 years old I am thinking that an upgrade is soon in order.

One of my concerns is that I have noted many of the new speakers I have thus far listened too don’t seem to hold a candle to the quality of the speakers that were on the market some 15-20 years ago. Yesterday I listened to a pair of floorstanders that list in the $1K range and they were scary bad.

As we don’t have any Polk dealers near where I live I am wondering how the new Polk’s stack up against the older classics? Any opinions on this? and more so new Polk model (s) that you would recommend?

Thx in advance

[Face]

If you update the crossovers in your currents speakers, you may not look into another set of speakers for another 15 years.

If you can get your ears on them, the LSi's are worth a listen.

[treitz3]

Newer lineup? LSi's.

[zingo]

I bump Face's idea. Classic speakers with new electronic components. It's the best of both worlds.

[F1nut]

Classic speakers with new electronic components. It's the best of both worlds.


Ditto.

[Marty913]

One of my concerns is that I have noted many of the new speakers I have thus far listened too don’t seem to hold a candle to the quality of the speakers that were on the market some 15-20 years ago. Yesterday I listened to a pair of floorstanders that list in the $1K range and they were scary bad.

An interesting statement and one I would not disagree with. Not wanting to fall into the "good old days" trap of people my age but I have wondered what changed (other than the prices and the quality). The great ones seemed to evolve out of small niche company's that truly seemed to be pursuing the dream of reproducing great music. Most were devotee-founded, privately held and rarely had more than a couple of product lines. Vinyl was king, CD's just taking off, and if you didn't have a audio store in your town you probably hadn't heard of most of the brands. Sitting around with friends and listening to music was an event, not Muzak.

Enter cable television, over-engineering (computers?), home theater, "decor appropriate" design constraints, multiple product lines, new-age materials (plastic), and large box stores. Pair up one or more of the above with a generation of compressed music freaks that grew up on 3" drivers and what have you got?

I vote upgraded electronics in vintage speakers (he said as he climbed off the soap box).

[lakesailor]

I have a theory on what has changed. The floorstanders I listened to yesterday were basically the exact same dimensions as the 11T’s. They had a slightly different driver configuration with 2 x 8” woofer 1x8” mid bass and a 1” soft dome tweeter; nonetheless they were still a multiple driver speaker much the same as the 11T; in fact is was the overall similarity to the 11T that first drew me to them.

These were from an English speaker company and looked aesthetically very pleasing with beech wood cabinets and contoured black grilles that covered over the array of jet black drivers. They were sexy. Then I listened to them. Yes they could thump, thump, thump like you wouldn’t believe, but it was a very sloppy bass; not tight like the 11t’s. The mid range was overpowered by the two woofers and sounded hollow as a result and the tweeters were completely lost.

On closer inspection the first surprise I came across was weight; these weighed in around 30lbs versus 44 lbs for the 11T’s….14 lbs is a fair bit of weight and given the multiple drivers I would speculate that the bulk of the weight savings is to be found in the cabinets; pretty much the easiest place to cut costs without being obvious to the consumer. Cheap cabinets also explain the sloppy base and I would assume labor savings in construction and obviously less weight makes for cheaper and easier shipping.

The tweeters were also clearly on the cheap side as well, and obviously a bad place to cut costs for all kinds of reasons. I think what it comes down to is that it is far easier to make speakers that look good than actually sound good and in an era with self service big box stores and Internet buy it before you try it websites galore it is likely far easier to sell based on looks alone and that seems to be the problem.

I am glad that people are still thinking highly of new Polk products and I look forward to listening to the suggested Lsi’s…I will be out of town in a month where I can likely find a pair to audition. Thanks to everyone for the idea’s.

P.S. I f I could find a set of speakers that looked as sexy as those Brit’s did, but sounded as good as my 11t’s I would be sold !

[cfrizz]

Welcome Lakesailor.

Just do some research here on the forum about the LSI's, they are great speakers but cost alot of money to get them setup properly with the right amount of power to operate to their full potential.

[obieone]

I'm researching 'old speakers' at the local flea market. Saw some Panasonic? 3-ways with 17" WOOFERS! The guy didn't have them lit off, but I'd love to hear what those sound like.

[geoff727]

I was considering a pair of newer Polks, possibly LSi's. Then I auditioned some at the only place I could find here in the Seattle area that carried them. The LSi15's were very poorly set up in this electronics warehouse store, with 500 other noise sources around (car stereos, boom boxes, computers, big TV's). So a good audition was simply impossible. Then I looked at the LSi25's in their theater room. This was better, but I still get the feeling that a lot of these set-ups are contrived with maximum "boom factor" in mind, not maximum fidelity.
I hate those kinds of "auditions", and I can never see myself buying anything under those conditions.
On the other hand, I love my refurb'ed -1C's. Granted, though, it's difficult to say "I'd put 'em up against the LSi's anytime", because I really couldn't tell what I was hearing with the LSi's under those annoying conditions. But a few hundred dollars of components have brought the -1C's to a whole new level, just like they have for so many others with many different brands, including a lot of good folks here.

[geoff727]

[B]The great ones seemed to evolve out of small niche company's that truly seemed to be pursuing the dream of reproducing great music. Most were devotee-founded, privately held and rarely had more than a couple of product lines.


That's one reason I also love my Nudell/Christie era (pre-Harman takeover)Infinity's. They're just good speakers, no two ways about it.

[djf]

Ditto.

Still chewin them up there, hey Nut?

I agree. Newer electronics and materials would benefit... but let's face it, the days of having speakers in your house that are the size of a drive in movie screen are gone. I saw an ad for a pair of Klipsch's for like 650 bux, I got the space but not the watts...


Currently: Easy Money, King Crimson, Live at Asbury

[Marty913]

That's one reason I also love my Nudell/Christie era (pre-Harman takeover)Infinity's. They're just good speakers, no two ways about it.

I know, it's hard to find quality bookshelf speakers like these anymore. Wish I'd never let them go.

http://lh5.google.com/Jayhawk913/R6c5SYkkP1I/AAAAAAAAAIA/vAZ2GuepvC8/s400/Infinity.jpg

[geoff727]

Yep, QLS1's.....with different midranges on the top two?

Likesailor, I think I'd hang on to those 11T's. I agree with the other guys, some crossover updating, maybe some brand new veneer if you're a woodworker, and that would be a sweet speaker indeed.

[Marty913]

Yep, QLS1's.....with different midranges on the top two?

Likesailor, I think I'd hang on to those 11T's. I agree with the other guys, some crossover updating, maybe some brand new veneer if you're a woodworker, and that would be a sweet speaker indeed.

Yep, it was back in the mid/late 80's & I bought them from a guy who did trade shows at Municipal Auditorium in Kansas City. It took me over a year to track down the correct mids (no Internet back then). Finally got them fixed, sold them, and bought a pair of 2.3TL's.

[geoff727]

How'd the 2.3tl's stack up against the QLS1's? I recently listened to a pair of Infinity RS4.5's Very nice detail in the mids & highs. My stock 2.3tl's didn't have near the detail, but I felt they were more fulfilling in the mid-bass region.

[Marty913]

How'd the 2.3tl's stack up against the QLS1's? I recently listened to a pair of Infinity RS4.5's Very nice detail in the mids & highs. My stock 2.3tl's didn't have near the detail, but I felt they were more fulfilling in the mid-bass region.

Keeping in mind the QLS1's were "crippled" for most of the time I had them, I would have to say the 2.3TL's had a much tighter bass and were considerably "faster" (if that term makes sense). My listening room was smallish, probably 14 X 16) and the Polk's were a better fit. Then again, it was in reality the SDA effect that sold me. Although I started serious audio in the late 60's I had never heard a soundstage like that before. If there was one thing about the Q's I really liked it was probably the highs and in general the "wall of sound" they could throw at you. The three tonal control knobs were kind of unique and helped a lot to tailor the overall sound but the Q's just could create the overall experience that the Polk's could.

[ryboltroad]

Diitto DItto Face's comment. I spent all last night rebuilding a set of Monitor 10. New crossover components and one w driver in each speaker. I have spent all day just dazed and confused trying to figure out which Cd to put in next and which amp is better.
Right now Dire Straights and Love Over Gold with the Denon 2200 is slightly edging out the Carver 55 and Meatloaf but just barely......

[ben62670]

Back to the original question.
Polk Speakers new vs. old-how do they stack up ?
Vertically. I have my Old Polk's (RTA15rdo's)stacked one on top of the other with a T-shirt between them next to my new Polk's made out of old parts. This is my office rig so it isn't set up properly:o
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN0973.jpg?t=1202607546

[Refefer]

Your speakers still scare me ben.

[Joe08867]

Ben those speakers are just F-ing awesome.

[ben62670]

I just bought some more amps too:D They will be run by 2 GFA-565's, a GFA-585, and a GFA-5800, or GFA-545. I want something a little more special for the tweets. I just hope the finished basement has 7'6" ceilings, or I won't be able to stand them up:D I might go redneck on it, and take out a couple ceiling tiles:D:D

[nms]

I still can't get over how BIG those things are. How do they sound a background listening levels?

[heiney9]

One of my concerns is that I have noted many of the new speakers I have thus far listened too don’t seem to hold a candle to the quality of the speakers that were on the market some 15-20 years ago. Yesterday I listened to a pair of floorstanders that list in the $1K range and they were scary bad.

An interesting statement and one I would not disagree with. Not wanting to fall into the "good old days" trap of people my age but I have wondered what changed (other than the prices and the quality). The great ones seemed to evolve out of small niche company's that truly seemed to be pursuing the dream of reproducing great music. Most were devotee-founded, privately held and rarely had more than a couple of product lines. Vinyl was king, CD's just taking off, and if you didn't have a audio store in your town you probably hadn't heard of most of the brands. Sitting around with friends and listening to music was an event, not Muzak.

Enter cable television, over-engineering (computers?), home theater, "decor appropriate" design constraints, multiple product lines, new-age materials (plastic), and large box stores. Pair up one or more of the above with a generation of compressed music freaks that grew up on 3" drivers and what have you got?

I vote upgraded electronics in vintage speakers (he said as he climbed off the soap box).

Matthew Polk remarked in an online interview in 1990:

"One thing people don't realize is that designing loudspeakers is sometimes a little like being in the fashion business. One year people want big speakers, a couple years later they want small speakers. Sometimes the change in the way people live their lives drives the technology of our products instead of the other way around. And then sometimes we we just build and design whatever we want." From compendium 2nd edition.

I'd vote vintage with new components in the x-over and the newer tweeters. However the LSi's seem to fit into the "fashionable and great sounding" category. I had a pair of LSi's and yes, they can be more expensive but they are worth it.

H9

[markmarc]

From best down, here are my top 4 Polk series choices:
Lsi,
SDA
Monitors (original version)
RTi

[Mike Kozak]

Now this really pisses me off!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=300196672346&Category=14993&_trksid=p3907.m29

[MarcLazarek78]

What pisses you off about it?

I made a post here on them yesterday. And they were only at $50 at the time

[NJPOLKER]

Better to be pissed off than on.
Give us an update on your 10's and forget about what you paid. Well I guess you won't beable to forget with us reminding you.
Drew

[Face]

I sold a pair in similar condition to someone on the board here for $50. There are bargains out there once in a while.

[ben62670]

I still can't get over how BIG those things are. How do they sound a background listening levels?

They sound fine at lower levels. There is an open chamber all the way to the bottom for the passives. I used batting material, and adheared it to the walls to allow a nice straigh path to the PR's. When low the cones are barely moving, but you can still feel the bass. Cranked it just punches you.

From best down, here are my top 4 Polk series choices:
Lsi,
SDA
Monitors (original version)
RTi

RTA is in the middle there, and I think closer to the top;)
LSI? I would love a set of nines with a sealed sub.

[Face]

I wouldn't mind owning a pair of LSi9's either, they really impressed me.

[ben62670]

I wouldn't mind owning a pair of LSi9's either, they really impressed me.

You ever hear RTA15TL's.
I really should get rid of them, but I just upgraded the XO's, and added the RDO's. They are just a fabulous speaker, and efficient.

[Face]

No I haven't, I'd like to though. There's someone selling a pair of RTA15T's or TL's for either $600 or $800 locally. That's a lot of coin to spend on a speaker I'm going to hot rod anyway.

[Mike Kozak]

Ok, the 10s arrived in excellent shape, but when the seller took out the mids and tweeters he just cut the wires caused they are soldered at the leads. Can I just splice the wires back togetrher or is there a better way to do this?

Thanks

[nikolas812]

Thats what I would do for a quick fix so I could listen to them. You might want to go back later and run a new wire from the crossover to the mid so theres no extra link in the chain.

[Marty913]

Ok, the 10s arrived in excellent shape, but when the seller took out the mids and tweeters he just cut the wires caused they are soldered at the leads. Can I just splice the wires back togetrher or is there a better way to do this?

Thanks

You'll get lots of opinions & advice (yes, no, rewire everything, solder, tape) but the short answer is yes you can just splice them back together. I would probably take the opportunity to rewire eventually but first I'd probably use butt plugs, solder, or just plain tape and GET LISTENING. That will tell you whether anything else is wrong. You can do something more permanent after that. Make sure the correct wires go to the appropriate drivers (of course you knew that).

Glad they showed up in good shape.

[ben62670]

If you splice make sure you solder them, and insulate them well. you don't want to fry your amp.

[heiney9]

Splice and solder then wrap in electrical tape

or better yet

Splice and use shrink tubing.

At some point in the future replace the wiring, but I agree to get them up and running and sure there are no issues repair the wires you have now.

H9

[Mike Kozak]

Am I missing something? I only see wire for one of the mids on each speaker, he has taped them to the cabinet, but I only see wire for 1 mid on each speaker.
http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg5/mikekoz62/?action=view&current=10s002.jpg
http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg5/mikekoz62/?action=view&current=10s001.jpg

[heiney9]

Sorry, I can't tell a damn thing from those blurry pics. Maybe dig around in the insulation and see.

[Mike Kozak]

The mids are wired together, I called the seller and he told me that one mid had wires connecting to the other mid.

[Mike Kozak]

here is a pic, two mids look like this

http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg5/mikekoz62/?action=view&current=Midbiwired.jpg

[Mike Kozak]

sorry about the blurry pics, I tend to shake a bit...old age

[nikolas812]

Even though you have already jacked the hell out of this thread.:D You might want to start a new thread with questions and pictures. I have no idea how to help you. I have not been inside mine yet or any vintage Polk for that matter.

[Mike Kozak]

sorry nik, I apologize, I have figured it out

[nikolas812]

You don't have anything to apologize for.:confused: Glad you got it figured out. Now get to listening.

Edit: You do usually want to start you own threads though instead of just popping in one and start asking off the subject questions. No harm done though.;)

[WilliamM2]

here is a pic, two mids look like this

http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg5/mikekoz62/?action=view&current=Midbiwired.jpg

Looks like the gaskets got destroyed when he puled the drivers. You will need to replace those as well.

[Marty913]

Even though you have already jacked the hell out of this thread.:D You might want to start a new thread with questions and pictures. I have no idea how to help you. I have not been inside mine yet or any vintage Polk for that matter.

I (and others) share part of the responsibility. We asked Mike a number of times about his speakers and whether they had arrived. It seemed convenient at the time. Perhaps a new thread might have been better but he was really only responding to our inquiries. I can point you to a number of recent threads that have been much more severely hijacked. Let's not get too formal.

[dorokusai]

The simple, vintage Polk loudspeakers are the ones that shine. The bloated, TOTL models don't.

[F1nut]

And the one man war continues.

[dorokusai]

It's not a war, it's truth.

[ohskigod]

there will always be "my speakers are better than your speakers" discusions, it comes with the testes..LOL

I like both the old and the new, at the risk of sounding pacifist. Its one of the things that keeps me a Polk fan.

While I liked the SDA-1B's I had (as well as them being a fan favorite amongst my friends), I liked my LSi15's a little better (when I used them for 2 channel). again, to me, its all good.

to me, the SDA line is a "you really cant go to wrong" line, as long as they are in good shape. I pretty much like the small and the big ones.

I believe the first time I heard the big boy SRS 1.2tl's were at Joe's (hearingimpared). I liked em the first time, but couldnt shake the feeling they were just a skosh bright for my taste. that changed of course the second time I heard them and Joe changed things around. that tells me that you cant even hear a speaker once (on one set up) and think you really know a speaker. it's what makes this hoby interesting.

[DaveMuell]

From best down, here are my top 4 Polk series choices:
Lsi,
SDA
Monitors (original version)
RTi

No love for the LS series?

[F1nut]

It's not a war, it's truth.

"You can't handle the truth."

[Face]

Feel the love!

[ohskigod]

No love for the LS series?

I loved, and do miss, my LS90's. it was a good combination of good fidelity and a remarkable ability to take abuse. Those mothers were loud, and served my theater well for years.

[lakesailor]

So I though I would update this thread. I finally got a chance to visit a few Polk dealers on recent trips and had a chance to hear the LSi 15’s. I really wanted to listen to the Lsi 25’s however none of the dealers I visited stocked them. When asked why I got answers like “we can’t sell them over the LSi 15’s” to “Save the extra money and buy a powered sub instead as all you get with the LSi 25’s is more bass”

Back to LSi 15’s….it’s bit frustrating that both dealers had them set up in an H/T setup and it took a fair bit of maneuvering to get them setup for 2 channel listening. When we did finally get them setup I must say I was really impressed. The first thing I could not help but notice was the crystal clear highs; the new Polk tweeters are very impressive. Not surprisingly as I have always thought Polk did a nice job on their tweeters.

I was also very impressed with the mids; very detailed with excellent accuracy and relative neutral presence. I think what most impressed me was that LSi 15’s still seemed to posses that “Polk” characteristic of sound quality that I have long enjoyed; albeit with vastly improved highs. I will say I was a tad disappointed with the low end; as much as it tracks down to 22hz; it seemed lacking of that nice “tight” trademark Polk “punch” that is common to my beloved old RTA’s. Hence why I believe that the LSi 25’s might have been the perfect solution for me.

On the whole I was very impressed with the LSi 15’s; they had nice presence; excellent imaging and a very smooth and detailed sound delivery. They were very impressive with the upper frequencies; although I could not help but be somewhat at a loss for the low end. What was interesting is that after the audition I commented to the salesman on how impressed I was with the mids and particularly the highs. His comment back to me was that they were on par with many of the ESL’s costing 2x or 3x more money.

That comment got me thinking about ESL’s I have always been a fan of ESL’s but had not checked any out for quite some time. Long story short the salesman was right; the new LSi 15’s do sound more in the direction of ESL’s, however ESL speakers have also come along way in development; particularly in the low end; long the Achilles heel of the ESL designs. They are also far more competitive in price as well. I ended up getting lucky and came across a best kept secret in speaker deals; the Eminent Technology LFT8 for the same kind of money as the Lsi 15 it simply cannot be beat. I do like the Lsi 15’s a fair bit but they are not in the same league as the LFT 8’s. If you get a chance check them out !