New Driftwood pics up

[Ron-P]

Finally, the new theater is nearing completion. I updated the web-site for all too see. About all I have remaining is installation of all the base boards, some corner wall trim and then re-paint all the trim work with the third and final coat and lots of wire management to clean things up.

Click on the link below and share your comments, suggestions, good or bad.


Peace Out~:D

[RuSsMaN]

*sexy*

Good job Ron, can't wait to hear it person some day.

Cheers,
Russ

[phuz]

I agree with Russman. Very nice man.

[joe logston]

very nice ron, hows your amps sound in multi-channel, dose the 4 amps create a lot of heat, how big is your home theater room.

[Strong Bad]

I have to say, that is one F-ING beautiful job!

Very well done!!!


John

[Ron-P]

Thanks guys!

The room is 9'x16' with the ceiling varing from 7' to 8'. The amps do not create much heat at all even at loud levels. The Marantz creates the most heat. I do have installed a small A/C unit which cools the room very nicely.


Peace Out~:D

[capitan100]

Very nice. Your in so cal?

[mantis]

OK since everyone is giving you the juice I will give you some negitive since you asked..........
Wire man wire.I can see alot of it.You need to consider hiding some if not all of it.Your theater is nice man,I love it when people spend so much time on it.But dude.....try alittle better wire management.
I also think the TV is alittle high.Did you check it for 30 degree's???Max??

[Ron-P]

...final coat and lots of wire management to clean things up.

If you read my original post, you will notice the comment above. I freely admit I still have lots of small touch up things to do, including wire management. When I'm done, you will not see a single wire anywhere.

Also, the TV looks high because it is at the 7' ceiling end of the room. The couch, which is the front row comes in at 26 degrees. I may actually raise the couch an inch which should bring me closer to 22 or so, just haven't done any fine tuneing yet.

Thanks for the comments.


Peace Out~:D

[RuSsMaN]

Interesting comments Dan and Ron. I never thought of 'axis' as an issue with video. Does this affect pixelation, brightness, etc? Is this just for Ron's 'type' of set (and/or others) ?

Cheers,
The Video Ignorant

[mantis]

I'll start you out with this thought russ......hows your neck feeling from looking up for awhile........??????

RonP,
very cool man...Glad to see your thinking things through.Your gear looks nice on that rack mount.After the wiremanagement, your theater looks like it's ready for some kicking back........

[RuSsMaN]

Ok Dan, big bag again. Almost par for the course now.

;)

Cheers,
Rooster

[mantis]

Does this affect pixelation
No,
only sitting 2 close to the monitor will do this.The correct distance(seating).

[F1nut]

Ron,

Looks first class, great job!

[mantis]

Russ when you want to talk video.........I'm ready when you are.

[liv4fam]

Hey Russ,

Let's talk about the 46" Mitsu I have the same TV and I really want to talk to you about seating distance and viewing angles let's do it up.

I am starting to like you as much as Troy. Let's do it up Big Bag.

Hey Ron,
You theater is looking good but I have to agree with Dan it will look a lot better when you do some wire managment.
I tell you what when I get home I am going to post some pics of Dan and I's theaters that we have done to maybe give you some ideas about how to improve your theater.

What did you say 9'x16'? What measures did you take to minimize speaker reflections since the speakers are soo close to the walls and the ceilings are very low.

What subwoofer are you using? And why did have so much power in that room?

[hoosier21]

Liv4fam be sure to post that install in Patti Labelle's bedroom, freaking work of art.

Please spare me your lecture on what we need to do. You bless us with your professional wisdom, then we see your equipment and IT’s THE SAME **** WE HAVE, receivers and in liv4fam’s case inwalls. Given the cost you can buy equipment at and given your profession I expected more, but you have the same equipment as us wannabe’s.

Oh we can have pictures of your installs??, BFD I am sure I can find some pictures on the internet of how it is done right given an open checkbook. But look around here, for the most part we are not in that tax bracket. Paying you to install all the latest cables, dimmers, IR repeaters and such does not mean much to anybody here, most are saving pennies to get rear channel speakers or upgrade the center, let alone have enough cash to pay for an install.

This is just a hobby guys, some of us do not LIVE for this.

[liv4fam]

Wow Hoosier,

That was a good one.

Way to let me have it, I will post pics of my new system shortly so all of you can beat it.

The only exposed wire on my system that you are going to see is not hideable so don't expect to see my rear wires running up the wall or out from under a gear rack.

I am sorry I don't fit into your guys little group of receivers and amps or wire running up my wall I just like to do it a little cleaner looking.

Let me show you how professionals install a Home Theater.

[TroyD]

Well, I'd cut Ron some slack as he designed and built the whole room by himself. Of course, Ron I believe is a professional contractor so I think he might know a thing or two about construction. I think he even pointed out that he still had some details to work out.

My hat is off to Ron.

BDT

[liv4fam]

Here's how it started.

[liv4fam]

Troy,

Ron did I great job on his theater man.

Nobody is kicking him I just wanted to Know how he dealt with room resonances since the dimensions of the room is so off.

Back off.

[liv4fam]

Here is it finished

[TroyD]

Well, I didn't see any POSITIVE comments from you so one would assume you were going to rip it as you seem prone to do. To which I would point out, considering he built it literally from the ground up, I think, overall, it's pretty impressive.

BDT

[liv4fam]

Equipment

[liv4fam]

I think his theater came out great considering the space, money, time, etc. etc.

I would be proud if I was him to actually own and build a dedicated theater room because I work in the field and I don't have a dedicated theater room.

My hat goes off to him.

Once he is done it should look stellar but I still think he needs to clean up the wire and I would like to hear his views on acoustics of the room considering he has way too much power in there and his sub is 3 times to much for that room as well.

So where is that kicking?

Troy leave me alone for right now.

I don't want to get into a pissing match right now I am not in the mood.

You choose.................Post nice or fight all night?

[liv4fam]

Projector

[Zero]

*takes a look at my rig*

*is depressed*

LOL

[RuSsMaN]

Who's rig is that?

Cheers,
Russ

[hoosier21]

Man it looks good, SOMEBODY spent a lot of money. Can I find a picture of a cool install that I did not pay for and show it to you?

Can a speaker inside a cabinet sound good? I see the fabric "outlet" but man there has to be sound bouncing all around in there.

How much of this is your work?
Cabinets? did you make them?
Lighting? Electrical wiring? Light design?

Looks like a box cutting, wiring stuffing, hang a projector job to me.

Left and Right at the ceiling, center at the floor, can ther be a seamless pan from left to right? Subwoofer in the cabinet firing out the side. There is major WAF at work here.

Hey man, I would like to have your job, really, I am handy with tools and audio equipment, but come on, come in here from day one busting balls, slamming people's equipment, poking fun at people. And then you post this chicken **** install? Like we are to be floored by it. Its a freaking gameroom/home theater, the cabinets where done by others, you come in open some boxes, wiring up, what's the big deal?

[F1nut]

Even though I'm not into HT, I do know that stuffing speakers inside laminated particle board wall units will result in some funky, perhaps muffled sound. Not to mention that the speakers are too high up the wall.

You ask, is there a better way? I know there is!

I'm just telling ya :lol:

[mantis]

left me no choice....it's on.......!!!!!!


Hoosier21,

Please spare me your lecture on what we need to do. You bless us with your professional wisdom, then we see your equipment and IT’s THE SAME **** WE HAVE, receivers and in liv4fam’s case inwalls. Given the cost you can buy equipment at and given your profession I expected more, but you have the same equipment as us wannabe’s.
Does that make you any better then anyone else in here Hoosier???Do you feel any better?I wanna know what the hell is so wrong with Inwalls?????He doesn't use them anymore and stepped up to Def Tech's,got the Yamaha out and picked up a B&K avr307.
Does this make him any better then anyone else in here???No F&*kin way.You NO better with the last 2 posts you made bud......


Oh we can have pictures of your installs??, BFD I am sure I can find some pictures on the internet of how it is done right given an open checkbook. But look around here, for the most part we are not in that tax bracket. Paying you to install all the latest cables, dimmers, IR repeaters and such does not mean much to anybody here, most are saving pennies to get rear channel speakers or upgrade the center, let alone have enough cash to pay for an install.
Another steller comment by Hoosier.........classy 2.It doesn't matter how much money you have or don't.I/we would like to help anyone with there given problems concerns questions.Posting those pic's are liv4fams bussiness,enjoy the pic's,why bash them????Does it make you feel more of a man when you insult other people's living???I'm getting real tired of those comments.Where's your job posted online and someone is insulting it????Can't remember that going on...BFD huh.........I take so much pride in what I do for a living,I don't need a trash mouth ass like yourself talking smack about it.You brought that on yourself man,I had no intention posting like that tonight untill I read your bull.

Can a speaker inside a cabinet sound good? I see the fabric "outlet" but man there has to be sound bouncing all around in there.
So can it???I know do you??ever done it.....put a speaker box inside a box?Do you know what to do 2 make it sound fantastic for the customer and please his wife at the same time by hiding all the speakers?????I will tell you this much........YES YOU CAN MAN YES YOU CAN.

How much of this is your work?
Most of it,we worked with the salesman and the cabnet maker on the needs of the customer.

Looks like a box cutting, wiring stuffing, hang a projector job to me.
Thats a really nice thing to say about someones work.If you want to give some tips on what you would have done and why,I'd gladly like your comments......but saying crap like that goes unrespected.

Left and Right at the ceiling, center at the floor, can ther be a seamless pan from left to right? Subwoofer in the cabinet firing out the side. There is major WAF at work here.
Really???and why is that.Can you shed some light into your thinking?Is it not possible to get this less then perfect speaker placement to sound correct?Is this a hopeless setup and?????

Hey man, I would like to have your job, really, I am handy with tools and audio equipment, but come on, come in here from day one busting balls, slamming people's equipment, poking fun at people. And then you post this chicken **** install? Like we are to be floored by it. Its a freaking gameroom/home theater, the cabinets where done by others, you come in open some boxes, wiring up, what's the big deal?
Chicken **** install...........nice words man.....again class act you are.Your insults make you look so much better of a man.Should I drop 2 one knee???I'm proud of that job along with alot of others we did.Yeah If I had ever last word in the design of the cabnet,told my customer this is what we are doing and you and your wife's need s have to be put on the back burner because your system isn't Ideal.Hello..........thats what alot of our job is all about.Making it work in less then Ideal enviroments.
There isn't a big deal and I don't expect anyone to be floored.Thats an ass speaking.......meaning you.
When he told me he was going to start posting some of our jobs online,I didn't expect this kind of reaction.
Dude I don't have a probllem with you, but you don't like when people post ******* things around here correct????then why add to it.

[phuz]

Sorry liv4fam but if thats all you've got, you just put the last nail in your own coffin.

Hats off to Ron. He/we already covered that fact that it's not already done and he originaly posted that he needed to do some cleanup work.

Did anyone really need to pipe in and start going on about wire management and how much better they think they are? Sheesh.

yeah man, I can't wait to see your new setup. Are you still going to have some Mcintosh gear in the rack... that is UNPLUGGED?

I had a big bag-o-nothin... but they keep on filling it up!

I just call em like I see em....

[phuz]

Originally posted by mantis
but you don't like when people post ******* things around here correct????

Sorry man but liv4fam completely disrespected Ron's hard work by jumping on this thread, trying to tell him what he already knows, and then trying to one up him.

He's just asking for it, so he's going to get it. It's that simple.

[TroyD]

I take it all back, it's not worth getting into over. I apologize.

Troy

[mantis]

TroyD,

Oh, and as far as respecting what others do for a living, I refer you to his thread where he states his opinion of the U.S. Air Force. Boy, Dan, sure didn't see you were outraged about that or is it we can't knock what YOU two do, everything else is fair game though.
You don't like when people insult you for what you do for a living...well how many times did I tell you and Russ I don't like it,but you insisted on calling me a box cutter and my job means little,Your an Installer and all the other crap you guys posted.I'm completely sick of it.I don't think doing it back is right,liv4fam was sick of the disrespectfull post you guys made on me and let everyone have it in here.I assume better I know you guys don't care for his style of posting.Personally I don't care for it,but you guys love ripping on people and now someone in here rips back and your all upset about it, even tried to get him kicked out.
Think about this for a moment.....I never ripped on anyone in this forum for what they do for a living,thats a personal insult and completely disrespectfull.I joked around with Russ when he was unemplyed but felt like a **** after I read what I typed ,I IM'd him and told him I was sorry.Ask him yourself.You ....NEVER once did I insult you.Get your quote on and try to find one post I ripped your job.
This **** gotta end,if your willing to stop with the job thing.I'll talk with Liv4fam about backing off and posting civil.I'ts not my place to do so but I would if both sides of the fence agree's.

As far as wanting to help others in here,being a professional that I am, you guys smacked it in my face and told me it means little.I have spoke to you on countless occasions that I might word my posts like I'm talking down sometimes to people,but as you know I mean well.I added in my opnion ,and what I think and all the other suttle things I could think of to try to restyle my posting so people wouldn't get offended by my words.

I love this stuff and love talking to all you guys about it.I feel I helped alot of the members,and alot of you guys helped me.

The other thing that bothers me is the constant reference to expensive gear.I made a new thead about my upgrades and that even turned into a pissing match,you even commented how you couldn't even lend a brother a helping hand as you felt it was a waste of your time,a shootout between flagship receivers.If thats how you feel,I respect it.I'm not going to try to change your opnion.

Hoosier makes an EXCELLENT point about the gear that he actually owns. He seems to enjoy bashing the rigs of other folks yet his own isn't exactly world class. Not that there is anything wrong with it but it's the old "those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"
I'm going to address it from MY point of view.Ive made some bad choices in my audio and video journey.I'm not sorry for any of it but I learned a great deal by expermenting with things.Everyone in here has nice rigs,all of them including mine and liv4fam's could use some tweaking here and there.I assume thats why all of us love this forum so much.
Like Ron's theater,you say liv4fam just ripped his theater,not true,I started with the wire thing and liv4fam brought up some good points about room reflections and the amount of power he has for that small room.When Ron and myself talked about it,nobody said anything, but when Liv4fam talked about it,you guys jumped down his throat.
Defending him...........Yes I will.Want to insult him about his job,credit and all that unessary bull,you now will have a problem with me,every single time.
Liv4fam is a really great guy,he knows alot about audio and video.He has a burning passion like most of us in here.If we all could just start over clean,things could be alot different.
Troy your side of the fence is just as guilty as ours is.None of us are right for posting ******* ****.

So I herby extend my hand out in truce once and for all.Can we all say sorry for the past,be forgiven,and move on to better things like amps...LOL:lol: ???????

[TroyD]

Same deal, I retract my statements, I apologize, let's press on

BDT

[MxStYlEpOlKmAn]

i know 2 year olds that have better sense than all...when yall read something do u read two words and like just automatically assume something? this entire post liv4fam and mantis havnt ripped neones rigs or nething, and im personally sick of reading about this, how people rip others rigs, i have pics of my rig, but el im not gonna post em...but w/e yall decide
-MX-

ohh yeah....liv4fam has posted so god awful posts, but he has really calmed em down since micah talked to him, atleast i think so....just give the guy a second chance

[gidrah]

Looks great Ron.

If you have any reflection/resonance problems, you might want to try something like this.
http://www.melhuish.org/audio/diy42.htm

I'm jealous. I don't have the room nor motivation for a dedicated theater room. And hell, I've got wire dangling over doorways and in a big wad behind my rack and TV. It still sounds pretty good to me.

[MxStYlEpOlKmAn]

i got wires on my walls, held up by tacks, i dont care tho, i mean el if it was a dedicated ht room i would hide em...but its a bedroom....and well....umm no....i dont see the point to hide em....

[hoosier21]

Let me say this first, I am disappointed in myself, I have entered one of those forum pissing matches that I absolutely hate.

Mantis, looking at your responses above, it is clear you missed the point I was making.

Good work guys, looks great. Have a good day.

[shack]

i know 2 year olds that have better sense than all...when yall read something do u read two words and like just automatically assume something? this entire post liv4fam and mantis havnt ripped neones rigs or nething, and im personally sick of reading about this, how people rip others rigs, i have pics of my rig, but el im not gonna post em...but w/e yall decide


ohh yeah....liv4fam has posted so god awful posts, but he has really calmed em down since micah talked to him, atleast i think so....just give the guy a second chance


How Old? - MxStYlEpOlKmAn - almost 14

From the mouths of ....Teenagers.

[HBombToo]

"Proof of Great Parents IMO."

I can only hope my 2 year old hits her teen's with this amount of respect for others.

Good on ya MxStYlEpOlKmAn!

HBomb

[MxStYlEpOlKmAn]

one who learns from others, mistakes and break throughs, learns much

lol....actually heres the way i see it, guys in here arnt rich people, if u r, thats awesome, but most of the guys have to work their butts off for their stuff, and when they post their rigs on here the last thing they wanna hear is how bad their rig is compared to others, and i think u should respect everyone and everyones stuff, and it dont take a 50 year old man to realize that, its practically common sense

[Ron-P]

Thanks to all for the positive comments.

These pics are more update status than anything, I still have a lot of detail work to do, a lot. But with the theater up and running, movie viewing is cutting into that.


What did you say 9'x16'? What measures did you take to minimize speaker reflections since the speakers are soo close to the walls and the ceilings are very low.

What subwoofer are you using? And why did have so much power in that room?
Yes, 9x16. As for speaker reflections, I don't have any. The rear wall and side walls are covered with rubber backed black felt and the rear wall is all curtains. Only the ceiling is painted and that I painted it with a rough texture mixed in to break up sound waves. The mains are a bit close to the walls, but moving them out farther did not effect the sound enough to warrent keeping them away from the walls. I do toe them in at about a 20 degrees which I'm sure helps.

As for the sub, it is a DIY 177 liter sealed SonoTube with a 15" Tempest driver powered by a 250 watt plate amp. Too much for the room, no way. I have her cut off at 60Hz and she runs perfectly. I have yet to run the AVIA frequency sweep to find any nulls or spikes, but so far, I cannot detect any.



Ron I believe is a professional contractor so I think he might know a thing or two about construction.
Civil Engineer to be exact. All my construction experience came from my dad and books. Just something I love to do, build.

I could have gone with the more traditional theater look, putting the speakers behind a false wall along with the TV and gear and going with more colors in the room, like reds, but I love the exposed look (man that just sounds bad :) ). Anyway, I like having all my gear out for all to see, the speakers on stands, just love that look. I also don't like the color red.

Thanks again guys.


Peace Out~:D

[mantis]

maybe this can end on a happy note.I'm glad everyone is calming down.Now maybe we can get back to posting what we all love..

Do we need a group hug????

[mantis]

O hoosier,
Sorry for comiing off so strong,you really hit a nerve with the job thing.I respect what you said and excepted.

TroyD,
thats cool.

RonP,
I', building a theater in my basement starting early next year like Feburary.I will post some pic's when It's in progress.I can't wait to see your finished room.Isn't this all so fun

[madmax]

Looks great Ron! I like the component shelf. It could be cool to sit it back into the wall in a "closet-like" opening (with no door) with accessibility from the back but that is only an opinion. Does the room contain the sound or is it loud outside? Just wondering.
Great job!
madmax

[liv4fam]

Well Mantis had an opinion last night huh?

So this is my opinion, I have said a lot of mean and disrespectful stuff since I have been on this Forum and I do apologize for the way I act but like Dan said "It was all fun and games when everybody was calling mantis a box cutter and then when I came in and gave everybody a taste of there own medicine I became a TROLL.

Well I can handle being called a TROLL but I really want to stop posting crap everyday and actually want to talk about audio and video without having to call people stupid and ignorant.

So what I am going to do on my part is leave Troy alone and respect his opinion as I would like him to respect mine as an installer.

Secondly I will not blantly beat anybodies system (which I don't do) and I will make my best effort to have an opinion and not get mad when somebody else doesn't agree with my opinion.

Dan really hates when people make fun of his/our job so let's stop bashing what people do for a living and let's get along.

Troy, I apologize for everything I did to you.

Russman, Dude I think you are the funniest person I have ever talked to.

If anybody wants to e-mail me with any concerns or thoughts or just to get stuff of there chest about me.

E-mail me Liv4fam98@aol.com

I will put my new system pics later tonight.
(No In-walls, Mcintosh, Yamaha, PSW-1200, etc etc...)

Let's put it in the past.

[Ron-P]

Does the room contain the sound or is it loud outside? Just wondering.
The sound is contained very, very well. Better than I had expected and I still have yet to put the exterior portion of the roof on.


Let's put it in the past.
I agree.


Peace Out~:D

[Zero]

Gentlemen,

Though a debate often serves as great excersize for the mind, when engaging lets do our best to remain composed and use words spawned from intellectual merits of point, vice, emotional.

Attacking one's profession, be it intentional or un-intentional naturally urges the one being scrutinized to respond in sometimes, an irrasional manner. It would be pleasent if such things were to be left alone as is, no one's words here will change what we do for a living - its a reference best left alone.

Though my time as an installer was inredibly short-lived, I have gained enough knowledge in that time to recognize quality work. Ron, Liv, Dan, what can I say - excellent job's. I can only hope to one day mimic such work. If I am in the area I expect an invitation to listen :)

Until then, have a good one. Enjoy the holiday and stay safe.

Sean

[TroyD]

The more I been thinking about putting the speakers in cabinets, I've heard that with care, it can be done. In fact, If I'm not mistaken, Russ has his kitchen speakers mounted in cabinets. Maybe he could shed some light on how it worked out for him.


BDT

[Zero]

Troy,

This an idea in passing, or has it progressed to the stages of contemplation enough to where you have to grit your teeth and pass it by the boss ?

[TroyD]

For me? No.

Russ actually did it. In his whole house rig, he wanted the speakers in the kitchen to be as unobtrusive as possible. I sent him an email to see if he could post some pics. It's pretty cool actually.

BDT

[RuSsMaN]

I have had quite a few issues putting speakers in other cabinets. I am currently testing which is better, the microwave, or the cabinet.

The glass door on the microwave isn't as transparent as the wood doors on the cabinets, but the low end is so much more 'punchy'.

However, I have been testing more, and if you will notice in the pic, the can of SpaghettiOs with Sliced Franks on top of the left KEF acting as an 'isolator'. I think I may have tightened up the low end enough to finally settle on this setup. I initally tried adding 1 can of BBQ flavored Vienna Suasages at a time, but I think the single 16oz can of Franco-American goodness works best.

Thank you, and good night!

Cheers,
Rooster

[F1nut]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Maybe if you nuked them for a few, it would warm up the bass!

[TroyD]

Have you tried setting the speakers on top of a box of pasta? I've heard that Mueller's lends itself well to superior imaging while the no yolk type tends to be less coherent. Thoughts, Russmeister?

BDT

[audionutt]

man oh man that is classic will you give us a full review?

joe

[RuSsMaN]

Thanks for the input guys, reviews to follow. Unfortunatley Troy, the best I can find locally is Skinner Lasagna Noodles. I do think the 'wavy' pattern could help acoustically, but I just can't squeeze it in there. (Plus, with Spag-O's at $1.09, Noodles at $2.19 -Spinach flavored, I know, I know, but if I were to do it, I would go all out).

And no, I'm no pro at this, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Cheers,
Rooster

[audionutt]

i just spit out my macaroni salad!!

joe

[hoosier21]

Russman what a great job, keep us updated.

Just think..... he just applied at Tweeter today!

Is there a better man for the job? I say...............................no.

[MxStYlEpOlKmAn]

Customer: Yes I am looking for speakers...
Russ: For Home, Computer, or Kitchen?

[Zero]

Or microwave... haha

[Frank Z]

....Fries with that?

[TroyD]

*cough*

The Kef thread and the mention of Russ's Cresta's made me think of this thread....skip to page 2...

Man, this STILL cracks me up.

BDT

[VR3]

I think this was like...

the first thread I really ever posted in...

To funny

And man did I sound like a moron! :)

[TroyD]

Sid,

You ARE a moron.

BDT

[McLoki]

For those who missed it - where are rons pics of his theater? No linkie for me....

Michael

[millerman 3732]

For those who missed it - where are rons pics of his theater? No linkie for me....

Michael

Same here, I feel left out.

[VR3]

Sid,

You ARE a moron.

BDT

BMS?

[Ron-P]

Talk about raising the dead, almost 5 years to the day.


For those who missed it - where are rons pics of his theater? No linkie for me....

While there a bit out of date here's a link to some pics in the system showcase.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=17179

[McLoki]

Damn - I thought you took another stall of your garage or somthing. Didn't notice the date - sorry.

[TroyD]

**cough**

for old times sake...

BDT

[audiobliss]

Hahahahaha, good stuff!

[Ron-P]

Holy SHEET! I've had that thing in my garage for just over 8 years. DAMN! I had no idea it's been that long. It has come along way though, looks nothing like that now.

Thanks for the flash back there BDT!

[dorokusai]

I think we all expect some updated information Ron....sheesh.

[RuSsMaN]

Troy, where is our old friend Joe Logston?

Thanks, Joe.

[TroyD]

Smoking weed, if I had to guess.

Thanks, Joe.

[RuSsMaN]

When we're on point bro, we're F'n on!!! LOL.

[Ron-P]

I think we all expect some updated information Ron....sheesh.

I have a lot of vacation time in January, I'll be sure to post some updated pics.

[TroyD]

When we're on point bro, we're F'n on!!! LOL.

Some things never change

bdt