Sonicap Gen I Vs Sonicap Platinum

[nikolas812]

Does anybody have any experience with both of these? The price difference is major but I only need 6 caps total. Would the difference be Worth the money? I think one .47uf cap is $7.60 and one platinum .47uf cap is around $40.00 I think. I am going to be modding my Jolida and I am curious if it would be worth the money to spring for the platinum series of if the Gen I will do fine.

[Ricardo]

Why not go all the way and use Mundorf Golds? I used a pair for ASL monoblocks and the extra cost was well worth it. Those amps sounded incredible and are still in some polkie's hands.

Make sure though that whatever you use, just change the ones that will make a difference. I am not an expert, but I know that the coupling capacitors are the ones you want to change.

[nikolas812]

I thought the platinum were all the way?:confused: I don't know the first thing about caps or mods or anything. I am just trying to wing it. The caps in my amp are .47uf 400v and .22uf 400v. Sonic Craft offers these values in the Gen I and platinum series. The mundford silver gold series are all 1200v values. I figured I should try and keep the exact same values in the amp. Am I wrong?:confused:

Also the platinum .47uf series caps are $62.00 a piece and the .22uf are $29.00 I think. I need four .22uf and two .47uf. Thats about $250 for caps Vs the Gen I for about $25.00. I huge difference and I will not buy the more expensive ones unless it is going to make a HUGE difference.

[Ricardo]

Unfortunately it will be hard to know the difference unless you try them both; I would think that the Gen I will be better than the stock...go with them and see how you like tyhem; for $25 you won't miss much, and it will be fun.

[F1nut]

The teflon based Platinum caps are very fast and present a greater sense of air than the Gen I. Voltage doesn't matter as long as they are equal to or greater than, except the larger the voltage value, the larger the cap and space may become an issue.

It's hard to say which cap will sound the best in your application, although it's hard to go wrong with the Mundorf Silver/Oil, which I like better than the Silver/Gold.

[nikolas812]

I just assumed Sonicap was the best. There the one I here about the most. But maybe they are just the best bang for buck?:confused: I think your right though. I will go with sonicaps and see what sort of difference it will make. Plus I will get the experience of changing them under my belt also. I plan on changing the diodes to Fairchild (harris) ultra fast diodes also. Maybe I should change the caps and give it a listen to see what the change is. Then change the diodes to see if there is a added difference. This is my first time doing mods and I can't wait.:D

[F1nut]

Not to worry, Sonicap's are very good and it's hard to go wrong with them.

[rskarvan]

Please be brave enough to post that "I didn't hear a bit of difference" if you find that to be true. Thanks.

[Ricardo]

Why wouldn't he hear a difference if using better caps? So you think there are absolutely no differences between a cap that costs $0.25 and a cap that costs $50 because it has better materials (as in matrials that provide better sound) and tighter tolerances?

I know; shouldn't have asked :rolleyes:

[nikolas812]

It doesn't have anything to do about being brave. I'll tell you like it its. I just placed my order a few minutes ago and with a spool of Cardas solder it came to $50.00. I post my thoughts after all is said and done. I am quite excited to see where this $50.00 gets me.

[rskarvan]

There is surely a difference as nothing is ever exactly the same.
The question then becomes: Is it better? I know its more costly. But, does it sound better? If the existing capacitor is functioning exactly as designed, my guess is a more expensive capacitor is just a more expensive capacitor. Not a better capacitor. Just more expensive.

[heiney9]

I know; shouldn't have asked :rolleyes:

Bingo!! Yesterday it was tweeters and now today he's on a capacitor kick and the mind numbing thing is he has absolutely no experience w/upgrading electronics. I know I'm preaching to the choir :)

[rskarvan]

Ok... imagine this.... lets pretend that a more expensive capacitor has magical properties that make a speaker sound better. Why wouldn't some manufacturer capitalize on this technology and market it with their speakers?

Example: Wasn't it Klipsch that a few years ago marketed some speakers with "Internally wired with Monster Cable"?

I do believe that some capacitors are a little better than others. And, there is some merit to higher end capacitors on speakers with exceptional resolution. But, its only a capacitor guys. A cheap one may be just as effective as an expensive one.

I'm sure quite a few people purchased the speakers that were marketed as "internally wired with Monster Cable". But, I doubt that anyone heard any benefit from it.

Ron

[agfrost]

Didn't you get your fill yesterday, Ron?

Damn.

I suppose that if Nik comes back and reports that he's happy with the results, you'll just discount it and say it can't be measured.

Well you said it in your last post: "Does it sound better?" Please respect the people who have done their mods and who do report that it sounds better. You don't have to come around and threadcrap every time someone suggests that there might be some benefit to refreshing the caps/resistors in their electronics or speakers.

I don't have a problem with the fact that you're skeptical of the benefits of doing such mods, but, much like serving some haute cuisine on a paper plate, your presentation leaves something to be desired. Can't you temper your doubts with a more positive spin? Let me imagine...

I'm unconvinced that you'll find the difference in sound to be all you imagine it will be. I might suggest going with the less expensive option first to see where it gets you first, before going "all in."

A post like the imagined one above lets you keep, and share, your opinion--all while not taking away a person's excitement about a DIY job, his potential for more closely approaching audio nirvana, and has the benefit of appearing more reasonable so that people such as myself aren't moved to post in response.

Or maybe that's the goal of it all.

I don't really have an axe to grind with you, I just feel that the fact that I think lima beans taste like a$$ doesn't mean that I have to hunt down every would-be lima bean eater to tell them to not even try 'em. It's kind of a nice way to be. You oughta try it sometime.

Happy listening (and modding) all,

Jay

[rskarvan]

Nevermind....

[heiney9]

^^We're all sheep anyway! Except for Ron of course. He's never tried any of these mods but he's sure it all hot air.

[Ricardo]

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t123/garcimol/troll.jpg

[agfrost]

agfrost.... I can't believe you authored a "fake quote". Thats hilariously ignorant.

I'm not quite sure what's "ignorant" about it. I didn't hide the fact that I was putting words in your mouth--I was merely envisioning you as a new, more user-friendly and fuzzier rskarvan. Furthermore, I didn't do it to knock you down or make you look like a fool. I'm merely suggesting how you can both be true to yourself and be more positive in tone. I know that such optimism doesn't play well on the internet, but it's my attempt in any case.

I guess I don't know where you're coming from: Do you wish to share your thoughts in a positive way, or do you wish to inspire people to engage in dramatic clashes with you so that you can rush to your own defense? My hope is the former; your recent track record seems to suggest the latter. I won't trouble you with my (perhaps not-so-) helpful tips any more.

Additionally, my apologies to anybody reading this thread that was hoping for information on capacitor upgrades. I haven't done it, therefore I have nothing to add.

Jay

[ShinAce]

I think you chose well, Nikolas.

If you want a HUGE difference, you need to MAKE a HUGE difference. Using a different brand of cap will yield a SMALL difference.

I didn't catch it, but what are the caps being used for? An amplifier?

[nikolas812]

Yes. They are for a Jolida SJ 302a tube amplifier.

[bikerboy]

Hi,
I find this EE vs audiofool debate tiresome. EE=what I cant test I cant hear. Audiofool=spend the most money on snake oil and my stereo will sound the best. I go to buy parts (wire, connectors, ect) at the local electrical supply shop and I get the EE attitude every time. There is a middle ground were what cant be tested with our crude test equipment Can make a positive change in the sound of our system. Most science looks at individual parts of a system to help understand the whole. The problem with that is the whole affects the parts. I dont have golden ears or an unlimited budget but I can say changing the caps on my JoLida 502 has made positive difference and I will continue to foolishly spend my money on things that I feel make a difference. If you dont think that why are you reading this post?

[nikolas812]

After reading the initial part of your post I thought you were going to poo on my thread some more. I think there will be a positive effect with the caps also. I have done a TON!!! Of reading and scouring on the net and I kept coming up with the same thing. The sonicaps make a pleasing difference on every Jolida they were installed on. And the Platinum caps do sound better but do not justify the extra difference unless you were going to keep the amp forever. They said the Sonicap Gen I will do 80% of what the platinums will do in the Jolidas. So I could not justify spending $250 - $300 on caps for a amp I only paid $450 for and will not keep forever. I think the $50.00 cap upgrade will be just fine. We will see......

[nikolas812]

Well I have my caps installed and have done a little listening. The difference was noticeable immediately. It did exactly what sonic craft said it would. It was like someone turned the bass and treble up. The mids are still the same or maybe a little less. But the lows and highs have changed the most. The lows are a little deeper and a little tighter. The highs seem a little higher but I am wondering if they are as smooth. I have a lot more listening to do but so far I am undecided if the change was favorable. I think it probably was. But it might be a matter of finding tubes to mate better with the new highs. But like I said I am going to do some more listening and report back. These were just initial impressions. I have also noticed the separation of instruments are better also. I think once I find the right tubes its going to be sweet

I am thinking of going with a KT77 tube instead of the EL34. I here it is less compressed than the EL34. So I am looking forward to trying them.

http://http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj162/nikolas812/Picture098.jpg
http://http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj162/nikolas812/Picture126.jpg

[F1nut]

Looks good. You need to put a minimum of 200 hours on those caps before listening.

[GV#27]

Nice work on the mod nicholas,just curious are the caps that you replaced coupling caps(in the siganal path) or power supply bypasses or both?

[nikolas812]

Looks good. You need to put a minimum of 200 hours on those caps before listening.

Really???:confused: I was under the impession that caps did not require any burn in time. So your sayin there gonna sound better?:confused

Maybe that would explain the highs being a little too high and not as smooth. Now that you mention it. It does have that "new sound". Like it needs to break in again. I hope this is the case because I am still on the fence of wether or not it was the right direction.

[Face]

I upgraded my Tannoy crossovers with Sonic Caps a few days ago. They sounded terrible at first, now about 50 hours later they sound as good as my Solen caps. I wonder what another 150 hours will bring.

[nikolas812]

Nice work on the mod nicholas,just curious are the caps that you replaced coupling caps(in the siganal path) or power supply bypasses or both?

I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.:D I just pulled the old caps out and replaced them with new ones of the same value.

[nikolas812]

I upgraded my Tannoy crossovers with Sonic Caps a few days ago. They sounded terrible at first, now about 50 hours later they sound as good as my Solen caps. I wonder what another 150 hours will bring.

SWEET! Thats very reassuring because these things don't sound quite right. While there is a noticeable difference from what I had in there. I don't think the difference is favorable. I am going to get some time on them and see how they do. I would have to Imagen they will come around, after all the favorable reviews they have got. They have already changed the sound but it sounds like it needs to refine itself(or break in) of that makes any sense at all.

[bikerboy]

Hi,
I didnt use sonicaps, I used auricaps but you need to let the caps burn in for hundreds of hours of playing music before you can decide if you like the changes you made. That is the hardest thing to do-wait a long time. I didnt believe that it would happen but it does and if you make more changes you will never know if the sonicaps are the right sound you want. Install the rca connectors when you get them, they dont need to burn in. But 200 hours for the caps then see what you think of the sound. You did the research and spent the time making a beautiful amp, give it a couple months and then see what you think. My 502 is sounding better than ever. The 302 is a sweet sounding amp and you just made it better. Enjoy.

[nikolas812]

A couple months.:eek: No way am I that patient. More like pop in the old tubes and let the thing run for about a week.:D

[Face]

A couple months.:eek: No way am I that patient. More like pop in the old tubes and let the thing run for about a week.:DWell, what are you waiting for? :D

[nikolas812]

Its running as we speak. I do need to swap out the tubes though.

[F1nut]

Really???:confused: I was under the impession that caps did not require any burn in time. So your sayin there gonna sound better?:confused



Now, what gave you that impression?

[nikolas812]

Now, what gave you that impression?

Just general reading. I thought I read some where that caps did not require burn in time. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time or the last.:D

I can tell you this though. Theres probably close to 24 hours on the caps so far and it is NIGHT and DAY. All of my previous replies were based on about the first 15 minutes after the install. They sounded like pure SHIT at first compared to what they sound like now. I hate typing this because it is starting to make me feel crazy. One day it sounded like doo doo and the next day it has me floored. I am going to put some serious time on them and then do a full review of all the changes. I feel like if I keep talking nothing I say will be believable anymore. I am starting to doubt even myself. All I can say so far is that it was the best $50.00 I have ever spent! I know this is a BIG statement but I honestly think these caps took the amp to a whole other level. I can't wait to do a full review because so far the changes TO ME seem to be pretty major. This has been the most fun I have ever had in my audio journey. I can't get over how good it sounds.:D

[F1nut]

Just general reading. I thought I read some where that caps did not require burn in time. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time or the last.:D


More than likely you read something from someone that doesn't believe in burn in, they are out there, but they are full of it as you are finding out.

[hearingimpared]

When I did my crossovers in my 1.2 TL with Sonicaps and Mills resistors it took 340 for them to burn in. After that time with each hour they sounded better and better. Anyone who says caps don't burn in and sound better is either and 'electrical engineering student of just has no experience with capacitors.

[schwarcw]

Just general reading. I thought I read some where that caps did not require burn in time. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time or the last.:D

If you ask Jeff Glowacki at Sonicraft he'll tell you the big difference will come in the first 100 hours. It will continue to burn in up to 200 hours and more. The burn in "affect" is exponential, so you will hear the biggest improvements very quickly. The improvement and changes will slow with time.

[The Judge]

Ok... imagine this.... lets pretend that a more expensive capacitor has magical properties that make a speaker sound better. Why wouldn't some manufacturer capitalize on this technology and market it with their speakers?

Example: Wasn't it Klipsch that a few years ago marketed some speakers with "Internally wired with Monster Cable"?

I do believe that some capacitors are a little better than others. And, there is some merit to higher end capacitors on speakers with exceptional resolution. But, its only a capacitor guys. A cheap one may be just as effective as an expensive one.

I'm sure quite a few people purchased the speakers that were marketed as "internally wired with Monster Cable". But, I doubt that anyone heard any benefit from it.

Ron

I think better caps make a difference.
I also happen to know that speakers wired internally with monster or higher quality wire than stock DO sound much better. I happen to know this from my own experience. Yes, the speaker wires from the crossovers may be just a foot to 18 inches or so but it Does make a Hugh Improvement from generic cheap ass speaker wire.:cool:

[george daniel]

I'm going to have to agree with the three or four posters above mine,,having performed 6 crossover upgrades myself,I can say without hesitation that there IS a definate sonic improvement to MY old ears.What comes to mind is when using solens,the bass is dramatically improved,,sonicaps,,well the bass mids,and highs seem to benefit very well with these caps. I think the key is ,quality,yes,,burn in(if you have not done it, you don't know), and experience. Experience can't be bought,,listen to what some of the long time forum members have to say,,it's NOT an opinion,,rather it's the voice of experience. So,, yeah,,,I believe that caps DO make a difference,,,please note that this post is my contributation for 08,,;),,I'll also be posting pics of an Anthem Amp One,,after the cap upgrade,,, bet it sounds better too.:D

George--out.

[Ricardo]

You guys are all crazy; first you say that different caps actually made your component/speaker sound different. As if that was not enough, you have the balls to say that the sound will change even more with time??????? Haven't you paid attention????? :D :D :D

Congrats Nikolas; enjoy your "new" Jolida. Your 7b's come next (If you haven't done those already).

[nikolas812]

You guys are all crazy; first you say that different caps actually made your component/speaker sound different. As if that was not enough, you have the balls to say that the sound will change even more with time??????? Haven't you paid attention????? :D :D :D

Congrats Nikolas; enjoy your "new" Jolida. Your 7b's come next (If you haven't done those already).

You hit the nail on the head. The 7B's are defiantly next. But I want to Wait until everything is fully burned in before doing another upgrade.

Edit: I am actually thinking of going with a Sonicap Gen II cap in the speakers. Sonicraft says these are more focused on the midrange spectrum of things VS the Gen I where they seem to be more focused on the top and bottom. That way I would have the Gen I in the amp and the Gen II in the speakers. Seems like the best of both worlds to me.

[nikolas812]

If you ask Jeff Glowacki at Sonicraft he'll tell you the big difference will come in the first 100 hours. It will continue to burn in up to 200 hours and more. The burn in "affect" is exponential, so you will hear the biggest improvements very quickly. The improvement and changes will slow with time.


The change was so dramatic that you could almost here it change from CD to CD. I can't wait to put some more time on them. They have been burring all night. I am about to get into another listening session in a few minutes to see if I hear a difference.

[F1nut]

You're going to have a real problem trying to use Gen II caps in your speakers as the largest value is .82uF. ;)

[nikolas812]

You're going to have a real problem trying to use Gen II caps in your speakers as the largest value is .82uF. ;)

Hmmmm. I haven't even got that far yet. What are the values of the caps in the Monitor 7B's?

[Face]

Off the top of my head, the smallest one is 12uf.

[nikolas812]

Off the top of my head, the smallest one is 12uf.

Was it you that was saying something about Auricaps in your 7's??
I noticed the Auricaps have the values that are probably needed and they say they are known for there midrange bloom also.

[Face]

Not me. I put Solens in my 7C's and noticed a nice improvement.

I also put Solens in my Tannoy HPD's, then recently replaced them with Sonics.

Sonic Caps are available in the sizes you require. http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicaps.htm

[nikolas812]

Not me. I put Solens in my 7C's and noticed a nice improvement.

I also put Solens in my Tannoy HPD's, then recently replaced them with Sonics.

Sonic Caps are available in the sizes you require. http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicaps.htm

Thanks. I guess I'll go with the sonicaps when I do the upgrade. Doesn't seem like you can go wrong with them. Also soniccraft is where I get all my DIY stuff. They have decent prices and rather large selection of different manufactures. They also usually have my stuff to me within a day. I am glad I cam across them.