DD 5.1 sounds better than PCM, whats wrong with my ears!

[Gizmo99]

Setup:

1) PS3 -> HDMI -> Onkyo 805
2) PS3 set to bitstream

Test:

3) watched Pirates - At Worlds End by selecting the DD 5.1 track
4) watched the same scene but this time selecting the PCM track

Results:

3) The DD5.1 tracked sounded brighter, louder and fooled my ears into believing it has more "detail"
4) Did not sound as loud, fooled my ears into believing it didnt have as much detail. Not as sharp / bright.

We all know that PCM > DD 5.1. Is something not setup properly?

I know PS3 set to bitstream will still play the PCM track when I select PCM on the BluRay.


Any comments welcome

[tcrossma]

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that PCM downmixes to 2-channel. So if you play a PCM track from your PS3 (which is set to output as bitstream) it would be downmixed to 2-channel in the PS3 and sent to the AVR. The AVR would then use PLII or some other matrix decoding to attempt to recreate the surround format. But an awful lot would get lost in this mutli-step translation.

I guess i'm not one of the ones who knows that PCM > DD 5.1.

[millerman 3732]

What does the display on your 805 have on it during PCM playback?

My shows this.

Blu-Ray
multipcm

(press the display button on the remote.)

MCH PCM 5.1
fs. 48 kHz

[Gizmo99]

It says PCM and I had the listening mode to "Multi Channel". When I toggle to DD, the red "Dobly Digital" lights up

I KNOW PCM sounds better than DD5.1 but as a novice listener, the DD5.1 did seem more sharp and provided more detail. <bangs head with a bat>



What does the display on your 805 have on it during PCM playback?

[jakelm]

My XA1 multi channel PCM sounds better than my DD or DTS decoder in my HK. A much fuller sound. The decoder in my HK, makes it sound like I was equ'ing it in a "V" style, with mids turned down.

[millerman 3732]

It says PCM and I had the listening mode to "Multi Channel". When I toggle to DD, the red "Dobly Digital" lights up

I KNOW PCM sounds better than DD5.1 but as a novice listener, the DD5.1 did seem more sharp and provided more detail. <bangs head with a bat>

It should say MULTI PCM you shouldn't need any kind of listening modes to get 5.1, when you press the display button on the remote does it say MCH PCM 5.1, fs. 48 kHz.?

[tcrossma]

My XA1 multi channel PCM sounds better than my DD or DTS decoder in my HK. A much fuller sound. The decoder in my HK, makes it sound like I was equ'ing it in a "V" style, with mids turned down.

I'm not sure we're comparing apples to apples here. It seems to me as if the PS3 (which is outputting as bitstream over the digital connection) is attempting to play a PCM track.

That'll be a 2-channel track that goes out to the AVR, which will then attempt to decode it into mutli-channel format using PLII or some other matrixed decoding method.

At least that's my interpretation of what's going on here.

jakelm: Is your XA1 connected via a digital connection and sending a mutli-channel PCM format over that to the AVR? Or is it decoding inside the XA1 and sending PCM over the 5.1 analog cables?

Maybe i'm just wrong on this whole PCM thing, so someone please correct me if I am. I'm just under the impression that PCM and Bitstream are transfer methods, while DD and DTS are encoding methods. Two completely different creatures.

[Gizmo99]

It should say MULTI PCM, when you press the display button on the remote does it say MCH PCM, fs. 48 kHz.?

On the PS3, yes it says MCH PCM, 48hz. and ~6 something MBPS

[millerman 3732]

On the PS3, yes it says MCH PCM, 48hz. and ~6 something MBPS

What about the 805?

[Gizmo99]

What about the 805?

On the 805, it says PCM and I applied the MULTI CHANNEL listening mode.

[millerman 3732]

You shouldn't need to do that, check the setting on your PS3 and make sure any down conversion is turned off.

[Gizmo99]

You shouldn't need to do that, check the setting on your PS3 and make sure any down conversion is turned off.

Conversion? What kind of conversion?

[millerman 3732]

I really don't know that much about the PS3 but of the 3 blu-ray players that I've owned there has been a setting in the audio set up menu that says PCM down conversion (in some way or another) that down converts a 5.1 PCM signal to 2.0 signal, that needs to be turned off.

[Gizmo99]

I really don't know that much about the PS3 but of the 3 blu-ray players that I've owned there has been a setting in the audio set up menu that says PCM down conversion (in some way or another) that down converts a 5.1 PCM signal to 2.0 signal, that needs to be turned off.

I dont think the PS3 has this kind of option :(

[jakelm]

I'm not sure we're comparing apples to apples here. It seems to me as if the PS3 (which is outputting as bitstream over the digital connection) is attempting to play a PCM track.

jakelm: Is your XA1 connected via a digital connection and sending a mutli-channel PCM format over that to the AVR? Or is it decoding inside the XA1 and sending PCM over the 5.1 analog cables?

Maybe i'm just wrong on this whole PCM thing, so someone please correct me if I am. I'm just under the impression that PCM and Bitstream are transfer methods, while DD and DTS are encoding methods. Two completely different creatures.


Your right, we are not comparing apples to apples. I am 5.1 analog out. But, the decoding is going on in the XA1 like your PS3, with PCM.

[millerman 3732]

Have you tried these settings in the audio output set up? It looks like you have to turn on 5.1 PCM.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z179/millerman3732/soundoutput002.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z179/millerman3732/soundoutput003.jpg

[Gizmo99]

Thanks for the screen shot. I will double check when I get home but I am pretty sure all the settings are turned on.


Have you tried these settings in the audio output set up? It looks like you have to turn on 5.1 PCM.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z179/millerman3732/soundoutput002.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z179/millerman3732/soundoutput003.jpg

[millerman 3732]

This page, http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/audiooutput.html , says that Linear 2ch PCM is the default setting so you may have to turn that off, like I said I don't know anything about the PS3 so maybe someone that owns one can help you out with this.

[Montoya]

I have had the same issues with the PCM 5.1 setting vs. DD . I am running a Pioneer Elite 81TXV . I know that some movies state that they have a dedicated track for "PCM 5.1 uncompressed" on those movies PCM does sound better Resident Evil Apocalypse is an example of the labeled PCM 5.1 track. So it might be it has to be labeled on the box that it has a dedicated PCM 5.1 track. But I suppose I could be wrong being it is just a guess.