Mike's Official Emerald Physics CS2s Break-in and Review Thread

[SolidSqual]

Here's photos of the unpacking. More photos of the setup will follow, but Clayton accidentally sent me interconnects shorter than I ordered so I can't show you how everything comes together just yet. Enjoy!

[Face]

Very nice!

[Early B.]

Oh yeah! I'll be watching this thread with great anticipation. This is the future of audio, baby.

[Zero]

They certainly wont win any beauty contests - but thats not what its all about. Enjoy the new toys.

[SolidSqual]

I thought they would be uglier, but as it turns out they are actually quite attractive in person. Their width when looking at them straight is looming like an SDA. The minimalist design also blends extremely well with the rest of my setup. They practically blend right in with my GIK acoustic treatments.

[Early B.]

Hey SS -- where's your preliminary review of these speakers?

[hoosier21]

very cool speaker

[SolidSqual]

Hey SS -- where's your preliminary review of these speakers?

God, I haven't even had a chance to listen to these yet. First, Clayton sent me the wrong cable length. Then, I decided I didn't want his cables, I wanted Frank Dai's cables (Signal). So, once I got Frank's cables, I hooked them all up and what do you know . . . an effing ground loop! I'm knocked off my ass from a steady and LOUD 60Hz kick in the gut from 4 15" woofers. My heads ringing and I feel like I got a ghetto hooptie is in my listening room. I power down the whole system and start floating the ground.

Eventually, I realize it's not a ground loop, but an issue with my Odyssey amps. What do I discover . . . Klaus didn't wire the effing balanced connections! (This is actually my stupid mistake because I told him not to as a cost saving idea.) Anyway, so now Klaus is coming over next week with his soldering iron and some junk to make my balanced inputs work (ALL FOR FREE). So yeah, this has been a rough speaker transition.

I will definitely have a review late next week assuming God is done fiddling around with me.

Anybody need a good deed? Apparently I need to build some positive Karma.

[schwarcw]

Sorry to hear about your woes SS :( We're all anxious to hear about these speakers and how they sound. Good karma and positive vibes coming your way!:)

[Early B.]

OK, thanks for the update, SS. I'm sure your wait will be well rewarded. We look forward to your review.

[Gaara]

...shoulda gone with the Gallos, jk. Do you have two pairs of those Odyssey Amps or do you really go through gear that quick? If I recall correctly you got these last month and are already selling them?

Let us know how you like the CS2s once you get them setup properly w/ the amps, eq, room placment, etc.

[BaggedLancer]

Those look awesome, can't wait for the review

[venomclan]

...shoulda gone with the Gallos, jk.

No he's not. :p

Nice ride there SS. You cannot commit to one amp or speaker. You are now officially an audio whore. Enjoy.
Venom

[SolidSqual]

I put my amps up for sale on A'gon to test the water. I'm trying real hard not to be an audio whore, but I suspect the Odysseys may not be quiet enough for the 100dB sensitivity of the CS2s. We'll see. Another guy here in Indy runs Stratos Monos on his CS2s and loves it, but I don't think he may be as critical as I am. This really sucks as I've come to love these things for the short period that I have had them. I'd like to not sell them, but it's either that or sacrifice some of the blacks in my background. I'll let you know how this stuff plays out.

Also, I got a car bill to deal with and well selling the Odysseys could make that all go away without me dipping into my savings. Then I would buy all Bel Canto gear with the remaining proceeds. Bel Canto is what Clayton uses to show-off the speakers.

Despite the car bill, I want to make the Stratos amps work in my current system, so I can move them to another rig at a later date. After which I would buy another BelCanto S300 and PRe3 for the main rig.

I just want you to know that I'm trying to settle down and start my audio family. I just can't seem to keep the troops in line.

[Gaara]

So your going to bi-amp these with S300s? You should have bought my Red Dragons, same sound for 1/4 the price.

Ever thought of going with something like a tube amp or tripath or that sort of thing for the highs? Not sure how the x-over is setup but I wouldn't imagine you would need that much power for the highs especially if they are 100db sensitive.

[SolidSqual]

The Red Dragons weren't balanced. That's a big reason why I like the S300 because its true balanced to keep the noise floor real low.

I like tube preamps, but no tube amps. The sound and pace of a SS amp mated with a tube pre is where it's at for me. Not to mention. I like the sound of tubes, but don't want too much tube equipment to maintain. SS is overall just easier in that respect.

[unc2701]

Hey, what's the model of the DBX unit? I've read about these guys, but haven't seen that anywhere. And are the woofers Eminence?

[venomclan]

Uh oh, now you have all the Gallo guys ganging up on you SS :)

[Face]

Just send me the speakers, that'll solve all your problems.

[SolidSqual]

The Behringer is DCX2496. Not sure who makes the drivers.

[SolidSqual]

Uh oh, now you have all the Gallo guys ganging up on you SS :)

You may have beat my Adagios, you Gallo punks, but this time I think I have the secret weapon! You all are just sad you don't have the weirdest looking speaker anymore.

[ArdyAr]

You may have beat my Adagios, you Gallo punks, but this time I think I have the secret weapon! You all are just sad you don't have the weirdest looking speaker anymore.


You want to sell your Adagios?Or could you tell me who was selling the Gallos?I'm using Apogees and looking aroung for something that goes lower but still keeps that great midrange.

[Sherardp]

those are wicked bad.

[SolidSqual]

You want to sell your Adagios?Or could you tell me who was selling the Gallos?I'm using Apogees and looking aroung for something that goes lower but still keeps that great midrange.

My Adagios were sold a little while ago and I was looking to purchase the Gallos at Underwood HiFi. The CS2s are the same price as the Gallos new, but you'll likely not find any used.

[Gaara]

FYI CS2s used for $2300obo (http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1209658632). I was going to post this for you SS, the guy also has a 4ch Wyred 4 Sound (icepower) amp for sale in the same add. Not sure which modules but it is a 4ch 125x2 and 250x2 w/ xlr input.

I was considering it but its to big for my rack, and more then I want to spend on my surrounds.

[venomclan]

My Adagios were sold a little while ago and I was looking to purchase the Gallos at Underwood HiFi. The CS2s are the same price as the Gallos new, but you'll likely not find any used.

I found a guy selling a lot of CS2's for $800/pair, mint condition. He said he is saving up for the Gallos...:)

[unc2701]

I did some research...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-407
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-270
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=270-312
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=248-669
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=260-335

$647.31
Add 2 sheets of 4x8x.75 birch ply, binding posts and wiring and you're set. Well, assuming you can get the DCX2496 set up to do what you want it to do.

[SolidSqual]

Got them up and running finally.

Here's the system:

Emerald Physics CS2s
Bel Canto S300 X 2
Bel Canto Pre3
Cambridge Audio Azur 840C
PS Audio Power Plant Premier
Signal Cable Balanced (entirely) and Power Cables

First Impressions . . .

The sound is definitely different. The absence of a box is immediately apparent. The drivers are supposed to have a dramatic shift after a 24 hour break in which according to Clayton is typical for stiff professional drivers. The sound is a little harsh in the highs, but I suspect that will mellow out after break in. The bass is way more prodigious that I expected. I feel like I got dual subs. It's kind of ridiculous actually. I'm going to have to mess with the presets on the behringer to find the bass settings best for my setup. All-in-all I am quite impressed out of the box. The sound is quite detailed and dynamic.

One thing that caught my attention immediately was a new level of detail in the lows. I could hear and feel the vibration and grit of the bass cord where before it was just a bass note. This was exciting. You could hear the speed and number of times the musician struck each note.

I'll let you know more as these things break in.

Thanks

Mike

[SolidSqual]

Guy's I've had these things playing for about 30 hours straight now and put in about 6 hours of critical listening after the that mark. All I have to say is Wow. Seriously, anyone who has the opportunity should listen to these speakers. Their looks are not exceptional, but the sound that they produce is so ridiculously realistic it's scary. This is honest to God like the musician is in the room with me.

[Early B.]

Fantastic!!! Glad to hear you're enjoying your new speakers. Keep us posted.

[schwarcw]

How are the tweeters sounding now? Have they mellowed?

[F1nut]

Got my ears on these today, albeit for only two songs. I decided they were worth going back for further listening. When I do, I'll report back.

Overview: http://www.emeraldphysics.com/intro.htm

Specs: http://www.emeraldphysics.com/specs.htm

[Face]

I've been eyeballing them since the first time I've seen them.

I wouldn't mind getting my ears on a pair or possibly picking up a set once they start to hit the used market.

[SolidSqual]

Yeah they've mellowed out quite a bit. The bass has also tightened up and increased considerably. Signal Cable will also be making a special speaker cable for me to connect directly to the tweeter thereby bypassing the binding posts and internal wires. This has been said to increase the sound quality considerably according to other Emmy owners. I'll let you all know.

[Lasareath]

Guy's I've had these things playing for about 30 hours straight now and put in about 6 hours of critical listening after the that mark. All I have to say is Wow. Seriously, anyone who has the opportunity should listen to these speakers. Their looks are not exceptional, but the sound that they produce is so ridiculously realistic it's scary. This is honest to God like the musician is in the room with me.

When I first looked at the pictures I thought this was a truck subwoofer that you tuck behind the bench seat.

[venomclan]

When I first looked at the pictures I thought this was a truck subwoofer that you tuck behind the bench seat.

LMAO. Priceless. Mike is going to love that one.

[SolidSqual]

Lasareath, do your monkey coffins hit 20 Hz like a Gorilla?

Venomclan, how do your fish bowls sound these days?

Update: I'm listening to B.B. King Live at San Quentin, right now. I now have the speakers toed in a foot and one half in front of my listening position. This was recommended by many owners on the net. The results are immediately noticeable. The speakers now are completely integrated with the room and throw the biggest most detailed soundstage I have ever heard.

Please, please, please . . . anyone who has not heard these speakers, run and take a listen! If you have $3,500 and want the best speakers possible in the price range, then these are certainly an option to hear.

Also, keep an eye out for the upcoming issue of Aboslute Sound. I just got off the phone with Clayton and he let me know that he expects to win a Golden Ear Award from the magazine.

Sounds Good.

Later,

Mike

[nikolas812]

Lasareath, do your monkey coffins hit 20 Hz like a Gorilla?

Venomclan, how do your fish bowls sound these days?

Update: I'm listening to B.B. King Live at San Quentin, right now. I now have the speakers toed in a foot and one half in front of my listening position. This was recommended by many owners on the net. The results are immediately noticeable. The speakers now are completely integrated with the room and throw the biggest most detailed soundstage I have ever heard.

Please, please, please . . . anyone who has not heard these speakers, run and take a listen! If you have $3,500 and want the best speakers possible in the price range, then these are certainly an option to hear.

Also, keep an eye out for the upcoming issue of Aboslute Sound. I just got off the phone with Clayton and he let me know that he expects to win a Golden Ear Award from the magazine.

Sounds Good.

Later,

Mike


When can I come over?

[F1nut]

Mike, the 1.2TL and 2.3TL have an overall response of 10Hz-26kHz and 12Hz-26kHz respectively, so yeah they hit like a gorilla.

I have to say from what little I heard, the bass was on the light side and the soundstage was completely in between the speakers. However, they were smooth and detailed. As I understand it one can play with the DSP to increase the bass response, correct? A foot and a half toe in is pretty radical. I thought the DSP corrections made things like toe in not very important?

Anyway, I was intrigued enough to want a second demo. After reading your comments I feel better informed as to what to do to get the best out of them.

[SolidSqual]

Mike, the 1.2TL and 2.3TL have an overall response of 10Hz-26kHz and 12Hz-26kHz respectively, so yeah they hit like a gorilla.

I have to say from what little I heard, the bass was on the light side and the soundstage was completely in between the speakers. However, they were smooth and detailed. As I understand it one can play with the DSP to increase the bass response, correct? A foot and a half toe in is pretty radical. I thought the DSP corrections made things like toe in not very important?

Anyway, I was intrigued enough to want a second demo. After reading your comments I feel better informed as to what to do to get the best out of them.

Awwww Crap, I thought Lasareath had the 1Cs. haha ok I'll shut up.

If the bass was on the light side then something was not setup correctly, seriously. I haven't altered the bass settings on the DSP and I have loads of tight bass. It outputs at the level of two powered subs easily.

I can't comment on the DSP corrections. These are all things that are available to someone willing to sit down and mess with the Behringer or to someone who wants to work with Clayton to solve an unsolveable room problem through use of the Behringer.

All this being said, proper room setup and speaker placement is all that I understand and the easiest method for me to setup a pair of speakers. I work with the physics given in the room. DSP in my opinion should be used to tweak your system once you've achieved the best physical placement you can in your listening room.

Finally, make sure the speakers you listen to have at least 100 hours on them. I found this mark to be a major increase in quantity and quality of bass. This also was true regarding the smoothness of the tweeter.

[F1nut]

Thanks, I'll check on the amount of burn in they have and as to what the DSP settings are.

[venomclan]

Venomclan, how do your fish bowls sound these days?


The goldfish are restless but they still sound better than my truck subwoofer. :cool: Gallo Punk.

[SolidSqual]

The goldfish are restless but they still sound better than my truck subwoofer. :cool: Gallo Punk.

One day I'd like to meet you and buy you a beer, my friend.

[tonyb]

One day I'd like to meet you and buy you a beer, my friend.

He doesn't drink beer......just those fu-fu Florida drinks,the chicks dig him for it.:)

[venomclan]

One day I'd like to meet you and buy you a beer, my friend.

Likewise my friend.


He doesn't drink beer......just those fu-fu Florida drinks,the chicks dig him for it.:)

Sho nuff :cool:

[SolidSqual]

Hi Micheal,

When we first started shipping the CS2 last May, we used a different processor. The DBX PA DSP unit has an auto equalization system which includes a microphone in order to take the measurements in the room. It worked pretty well, but had some consistency issues with it. After we developed the preset eq approach we currently have, we were able to employ the Behringer DCX2496, which sounds better, has 24 bit, 96kHz sampling and digital input. Probably less than 5 pair were made this way for the USA market.

Clayton Shaw
__________________
Emerald Physics Corp.
6300 N. Sagewood Dr.
Suite H361
Park City UT 84098
1+435.640.1294
clayton@emeraldphysics.com
www.emeraldphysics.com

[unc2701]

...and the DBX costs twice as much...

[SolidSqual]

F1Nut did you ever get a chance to hear the CS2s?

[mightymouse]

Any more updates on how they sound?

[SolidSqual]

Hey guys,

I'm at 250 hours now. The tweeters have done some strange things. At about 180 hours they started sounding sluggish and closed sounding. After about 4 hours of this crap, they began to bloom and come back. Now at 250 hours the soundstage stretches from wall to wall with every well-recorded song I play.

The midrange is oh so perfect. Not sure how to describe it, but all the musicality is in this range. Each note is rich and powerful. The highs and lows of the speakers have wowed me, but the midrange has left me gasping . . . its left me laughing like a school girl at how good the sound is . . . and at times its just left me wondering if things could possibly get any better.

The lows have become even tighter and more powerful. Listening to Moby Dick by Led Zeppelin is just amazing. The drum solo is like walking through a bomb field in terms of dynamics. The bass sounds so natural and well out of the box . . . its amazing.

Thanks

Mike

[Early B.]

SS -- Glad to hear you're enjoying your speakers. If I had the funds, they would be my next purchase. ;)

[unc2701]

You can tell us- did you put on Wilson Phillips for 4 hours at about 180???

[SolidSqual]

No even worse . . . I put the Bose Lifestyle 25 Companion CD on. I'm telling you, best classical mix ever!

[SolidSqual]

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to give a shout out for Clayton. He wrote a new crossover file for the Behringer and sent it to me on a PC card via snail mail so I could use the Behringer to feed my new SVS sub. This guy is the S#!t. He asked for no compensation. He just said "you're my customer and I want to make sure you are taken care of."

On another note, the SVS 39-20 PC Plus sounds absolutely sick! Movies are amazing! It even integrated extremely well with music and my CS2s. SVS totally caught me off guard with this sub. It is truly musical.

That being said, I still think I like the CS2s alone for music.

[underwoodwally]

This is my first post here and is informational only as I am the Emerald Physics North American sales agent. Please email me directly for more info at underwoodwally@aol.com

Just a note to let you know why the extreme toe in is used on the CS-2.

The CS-2 is a controlled dispersion design. It deliberately reduces dispersion so that there are no side wall, floor or ceiling reflections. By doing this is effectively removes the room from the listening equation. As long as you can get it 3 feet or more from the back wall the room does not matter. It will therefore work in almost ALL rooms. There are almost no bad rooms for the CS-2 with this technology.

The design guarantees equal power bandwidth into the room with no reflections.

I call the CS-2 the "Anti-Speaker" as most of what we, as audiophiles, have learned over the years does not work with this speaker. It is very efficient, yet likes big power amps. It uses a horn midrange/tweeter but does not work with most tube amps as it is too accurate.

[SolidSqual]

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/secondcoming/secondcoming.html

Cool write up.