Basement Project - Ceiling

[appadv]

Like many of you know, I've been building my basement HT for a few months now and I'm up to the point where I've got to drywall the ceiling. Problem is, I don't know anything about ceilings!

I'm just not sure where to start with this one...

Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated.

[MillerLiteScott]

Run the drywall perpendicular to the 3/4"furring strips than are nailed to the bottom of the joists. They should be laid out to break on an 8' length of drywall.
I may suggest running a 2" screw into each furring strip where they cross under the joist. Use drywall glue and 11/4" screws to attach the drywall.

Scott

[appadv]

Is this something a kid like me can do?

[MillerLiteScott]

Yeah, But get some one to help lift and hold the sheets. I would also insulate your ceiling first and make sure you get IC recess light fixtures if you are putting in recessed lighting with insulation. There may be some more HT related products that you can use, my suggestions are based more on regular construction practices.

Scott

[appadv]

Thanks,

On a positive note, the old ceiling came down relatively easily. I will try to mount my 120+lb projector on the ceiling too, but that's another can of worms...

I haven't thought about lighting, since there were already fluorescent lights in the ceiling before (I didn't remove them). I only removed the ceiling.

[disneyjoe7]

Well first I would figure out where all your wiring will need to be, before the drywall goes up. Doing so later will just cause you a bigger headache. :)

[appadv]

Yeah, I realized that since the ceiling is removed, it would be a great time to run speaker wire and stuff like that.

Right now I have my speaker wire on the ground!

[fumoffu]

I suggest running some conduit too. Just in case you need a new cable or need to change things or something.

[appadv]

I suggest running some conduit too. Just in case you need a new cable or need to change things or something.

I guess I should, in the event I upgrade to a digital projector I would need a HDMI cable (right now only have component and RGBHV).

Thanks!

[WilliamM2]

It will be almost impossible to pull an HDMI connector through the conduit. I would run that now, and anything else you think you may need, You can leave the extras tucked in the outlet box for now.

[appadv]

The thing is, only digital projectors use HDMI. The CRT projector that I have takes everything in RGBHV, so if you want to feed it an HDMI source you must use a video processor/scaler.

So in this case, do you still think I should run HDMI anyways? Seems like a waste to me.

In the meantime, I am planning on how to run my speaker cables through the ceiling BEFORE the drywall is up. Otherwise I will have a tough time routing the video and speaker wire later.

[kcarl]

Why not install a dropped ceiling? The killer with installing a drywall ceiling is the finishing work. If you do hang drywall, there are special lifts you can rent to hold to lift and hold the sheets up - not as expensive as they sound.

Good luck

[adam2434]

From experience, I'd say run damn near every wire type possible, or leave provisions to do so down the road. You never know what you're going to need in the future.

I know of folks using 2" PVC pipe as conduit to run future wires.

I originally ran HDMI, component, and composite to my projector. Then, a few months ago I decided that I also wanted VGA for hook-up to a PC. That really didn't even cross my mind at the time I installed the projector. Fortunately, I had way to run VGA from the unfinished side of the basement, sliding the cable along main support I-beam to where I had access to the low voltage box that all the projector wiring is sent through. Big peace of mind comes from knowing that you can run cables post construction.

[appadv]

The other thing is, my system is currently a 2-channel HT (music + projector) and I don't think I will ever go with surround sound. But everyone I run into says wire the room for surround too.

Is this overkill? I'm pretty sure that 99% I will stick with 2-channel system.

[adam2434]

The other thing is, my system is currently a 2-channel HT (music + projector) and I don't think I will ever go with surround sound. But everyone I run into says wire the room for surround too.

Is this overkill? I'm pretty sure that 99% I will stick with 2-channel system.

I say run it, at least the 2 surround channels for 5.1. Buy a spool of 14/2 in-wall speaker cable from partsexpress.com or htd.com. It doesn't cost that much. Even if you don't do surround, at least the wire will be there for the next person.

[disneyjoe7]

You will kick yourself later if you wanted surround speakers, why 2 channel if you're watching a projector? Seems 2 steps forward in video, 3 steps back in sound IMHO ;)

[appadv]

You will kick yourself later if you wanted surround speakers, why 2 channel if you're watching a projector? Seems 2 steps forward in video, 3 steps back in sound IMHO ;)

'cause our very own Trey (Vr3MxStyler2k3) is the one that got me hooked on 2-channel HiFi.

[disneyjoe7]

What can I say Trey will also wake up one day also ;)

[appadv]

So you're saying run the wire? There goes more money :)

[BAD ASP]

Why not install a dropped ceiling? The killer with installing a drywall ceiling is the finishing work. If you do hang drywall, there are special lifts you can rent to hold to lift and hold the sheets up - not as expensive as they sound.

Good luck

I chose to go with a dropped ceiling for a number of reasons but most notably the access to all wiring, lighting and ease of installation and maintenance. I have also read that there are some new designs that hug your joists more closely. I started off with 8'4" and dropped mine to 7'8". This gave me 8" space to insulate and run wiring. MY 2c

[kingkip]

My basement looked exactly the same. I put up drywall and ran every cable imagineable, (I even ran component and HDMI to the front of the room just in case I wanted a display there) you never know and you'll kick yourself for not doing it now. A drywall lift cost me $35 to rent from lowes and if you ever want to call the people who are going to help you friends again it is money well spent. As for the projector mount I ran a chunk of 2x10 from the back wall to the middle of the room, to give myself leeway for installation and for future upgrades. Screw it in to the bottom of the joists and it will easily carry the load. If you are worried about it you could also use some metal brackets.

My $.02, I hate drop ceilings. I don't like the way they look, I have had them rattle and they are no good for IB subs. The ease of cabling is appealing but not worth it to me.

Drywall isn't that hard to do, just time consuming.

[appadv]

Thanks for the advice,

I guess I am going to run every type of cable possible - to the projector HDMI, DVI, VGA, component, S-video, composite, and RGBHV.

Then for the audio I will run a 50ft. subwoofer cable, speaker cables for a 5.1 or 7.1 setup, and an additional sub cable in case I want to move the sub.

I'm still undecided as to how to do the ceiling though - some recommended a drop ceiling, but my bare unfinished ceiling is only 7ft. tall.

[disneyjoe7]

I like the conduit idea also... This is why I ran 1 Cat5, 1 3 line phone cable, 6 AudioQuest RG6 cables for audio feeds out, 2 RG6 for OTA plus a feed up, 2 RG6 for satellite, 2 12gauge BlueJean cables for rear surround, I thought I had every cable ran possible. Another set of holes where for Plasma on wall, but this run is 4' in wall so no biggie, 1 HDMI, 1 Power. Well 4 months later wish to add S-Video to TV also, 1 IR blaster from whole house IR repeater, and 2 RG6 for Mpeg2 DVB satellite receiver. In short you never know what you will need in the future. ;)

[appadv]

I like the conduit idea also... This is why I ran 1 Cat5, 1 3 line phone cable, 6 AudioQuest RG6 cables for audio feeds out, 2 RG6 for OTA plus a feed up, 2 RG6 for satellite, 2 12gauge BlueJean cables for rear surround, I thought I had every cable ran possible. Another set of holes where for Plasma on wall, but this run is 4' in wall so no biggie, 1 HDMI, 1 Power. Well 4 months later wish to add S-Video to TV also, 1 IR blaster from whole house IR repeater, and 2 RG6 for Mpeg2 DVB satellite receiver. In short you never know what you will need in the future. ;)

Are you using C-band satellite?

[disneyjoe7]

Are you using C-band satellite?

No I now in business supporting C-Band, but I needed to move so I'm now in a HOA area which doesn't allow me to own a Big Dish. I'm adding Ku dish which will have a mover this has cause me to add 2 RG6's. The IR blaster is for the whole house audio but I'm adding video control of TiVo's throughout house.

[appadv]

Cool, that's an awesome setup!

I always liked C-band satellite :)

[appadv]

I think I will just go with ceiling tiles or a dropped ceiling, the learning curve for working with drywall seems steep.

[Lasareath]

I'm still undecided as to how to do the ceiling though - some recommended a drop ceiling, but my bare unfinished ceiling is only 7ft. tall.



Alex,

From concrete floor to the underside of the 1st floor joists I have around 87 inches.

I am 6'-5", so I'd like to have around 78 to 80" of clear space. So I have only 7" to 9" to work with.

After I put in the french drain I might want to put down hard wood flooring. (I know its not the best for audio rooms but I like the look of it)

Since I only have 7" to 9" to spare what I may do is lay down 2 by 6's on their sides on the concrete floor, maybe I should liquid nails them down as well.

Then I will put down 3/4" tounge and groove plywood. and then the hardwood flooring.

That's around 3".

I'd like to put 2 layers of sheetrock on the ceiling, so that will be around an 1" to 1.25"

This leaves me plently of space to stand in the room with new hardwood flooring and a double sheetrock ceiling.

The only part I don't like is that I fit under the main beam by 1", if I raise the floor 3" then I will have to duck everytime I go into the audio room.

I was thinking I should leave a small area with no new floor in the new audio room. Then the door that is hung just below the main beam can hang just above the existing concrete floor and when it opens into the room it will open to a little 40" by 40" area of exisitng concrete and then there will be a small 3" step onto the new hardwood flooring.

I may have to do it this way so that I don't hit my head.

Have you started your ceiling yet?

Sal

[unc2701]

Drop ceilings vibrate something awful. You really don't want to do that.

[m00npie]

lay down 2 by 6's on their sides on the concrete floor, maybe I should liquid nails them down as well.

Sal, take a look at the sub-floor squares that home depot sells now in the contractor section. It’s basically a 2’ x 2’ square of ¾’’ plywood with a rubber bottom. I have not personally used it so I have no idea of the cost. By using this, you’ll save an inch on the floor.

I'd like to put 2 layers of sheetrock on the ceiling, so that will be around an 1" to 1.25"

If it were me, I would insulate your floor joists really well. R19 is code I believe. If your joists are 2x8, use R19. If they are 2x10, you may get away with R30 but be careful about squeezing insulation and covering it with Drywall…. It’s not a good combo. Once Insulated, I would just use a single layer of 5/8 dyrwall.

[m00npie]

Drop ceilings vibrate something awful. You really don't want to do that.

I experienced this as well at my old house. Riveting the trouble areas helped but then the recessed lights became the noise maker. Although it‘s a pain in the ass to eliminate the noise, I still prefer it over drywall. Anything happens, or if new cable needs to be run, it’s easy to just pop the tile(s) out.

[kevhed72]

Not sure what your ducts on the ceiling look like, but my last house ended up with all the duct-work being dry-walled, along with the main seating area of the HT being drywalled. There were a couple smaller areas where it made more sense to install a row of drop-ceiling. I also framed in 2 odd-shaped ends of the basement (one next to furnace and one next to water heater) and left the area behind these walls unfinished. That way, if needed, I could run extra lines to areas of the basement after the fact. Point is, if may make more sense to do a combo. of both. Maybe take some pics of the entire ceiling area and post them...

[Lasareath]

Not sure what your ducts on the ceiling look like, but my last house ended up with all the duct-work being dry-walled, along with the main seating area of the HT being drywalled. There were a couple smaller areas where it made more sense to install a row of drop-ceiling. I also framed in 2 odd-shaped ends of the basement (one next to furnace and one next to water heater) and left the area behind these walls unfinished. That way, if needed, I could run extra lines to areas of the basement after the fact. Point is, if may make more sense to do a combo. of both. Maybe take some pics of the entire ceiling area and post them...


This house has Baseboard Heating. no ducts, just one 1-1/2" copper pipe that is mounted to the underside of the floor joists.

[Lasareath]

I experienced this as well at my old house. Riveting the trouble areas helped but then the recessed lights became the noise maker. Although it‘s a pain in the ass to eliminate the noise, I still prefer it over drywall. Anything happens, or if new cable needs to be run, it’s easy to just pop the tile(s) out.


I will probably use sheetrock. I don't want anything that will resonate



My Ultimate question would be: Should I trust the french Drain 100%?, can I install hardwood flooring directly ontop of the concrete floor or is that a no no?

[Lasareath]

Sal, take a look at the sub-floor squares that home depot sells now in the contractor section. It’s basically a 2’ x 2’ square of ¾’’ plywood with a rubber bottom. I have not personally used it so I have no idea of the cost. By using this, you’ll save an inch on the floor.



Thanks Kelley, I think I will use these:

http://www.dricore.com/en/VideoCons.aspx

[ben62670]

I loved having dropped ceiling tiles. You will want to get some decent tiles if you go this route. Something with a little weight, and also the tiles tend to transfer less acoustical energy to the room above. The problem I see though is at 7 feet you are going to lose 6 inches. If you do enclose it you will need to run every cable imaginable ahead of time. A couple runs of cat5, coax, HDMI, .... Also if you have any water pipes in that area you might not want to kill the access you have to them. If something ever happened it could be an awful expensive mess. I know the idea of a low ceiling really sucks, but if it is for basically a sitting room you won't be bothered by the low ceilings as much.

[m00npie]

My Ultimate question would be: Should I trust the french Drain 100%?, can I install hardwood flooring directly ontop of the concrete floor or is that a no no?

That would be a No No. There would be no way of nailing the floor down. Since you need a vapor barrier such as tar paper, gluing it will not work either. You can lay Pergo on concrete but that hollow sound you get with Pergo on concrete may drive you mad.

As for the drain, does the basement have a sump already in it? Is there a pump already installed?

[m00npie]

thanks kelley, i think i will use these:

http://www.dricore.com/en/videocons.aspx

bingo!

[Lasareath]

As for the drain, does the basement have a sump already in it? Is there a pump already installed?



There is a regular 4" drain in the center of the front half of the basement. (I want to make the audio room in the back part of the basement where there is no drain.)

My cousin is going to help me to put in a french drain with a sump pump since he has done them before in the past.


Now I know what I will do with the floor, french drain and then this dricore plywood system.

The question now is how do I do the walls?, Do the studs touch the concrete block walls? or are they set away from the concrete and the sills on the floor are attached to the concrete floor just past the french drain openings?

Should I use some synthetic material between the bottom sill and the concrete?

Thanks again. Sal

[Lasareath]

This site explains a lot:

http://www.rd.com/17480/article17480-1.html

But, this looks like something I will not get done in a weekend :(

So, my system will not be up and running as soon as I move in :( :( :(

[m00npie]

The question now is how do I do the walls?, Do the studs touch the concrete block walls? or are they set away from the concrete and the sills on the floor are attached to the concrete floor just past the french drain openings?

Should I use some synthetic material between the bottom sill and the concrete?

Thanks again. Sal

Hey Sal… Take a deep breath,

I’m not familiar with these types of draining systems inside the house as my building experience was with new construction and these types of drains were done outside of the footer. Since your have an existing dwelling, digging around your foundation to install it outside is really not feasible or cost effective.

So, I can’t answer your question about placing the walls above the drains. I do think it should not be a problem since if you have water above the concrete line, you will have bigger issues than just drainage. As for placement of the 2x4 walls… You will want to do a complete layout of your basement before building any walls. You cannot rely on the block walls being plumb and the room being square. Even if they were during construction, chances are they moved over time.

What I did in the basement of my old house and what I will do again in my new house is I held the wall 2’’ from the concrete. This gave me the ability to do 4 things…

1. I was able to plumb the walls easily with no interference from the foundations walls
2. I was able to square the room.
3. Pulling wire \ Cable Mngt was a breeze and required no stud drilling.
4. And the main reason I held it 2 inches is because I used R19 insulation instead of the standard R13. Overkill, but I felt it would provide better sound proofing.

You don’t need to go 2’’ but if your foundation is square and you walls are plumb, you can get away with 1’’.

Another few points worth mentioning… You will need to Drylok your floor and walls before doing anything or at least after your drain is finished. Finally, check the grading around your foundation. Be sure you have enough fall away from your house. You don’t want that sump pump running around the clock. Of course, be sure the pump is pushing the water far enough away from your foundation so you’re not re-cycling the water.

Finally, the finish ( floor leveling ) on basement floors can be horrendous. Especially if they poured the floor after the first deck was on. You need to be sure your floor is flat enough for hardwood flooring. Using the subfloor will correct small imperfections in the floor but if you have big ones, you will see it in the finished product.