My new Tannoy HPD-385A Cabinets and Crossover Mods

[Face]

Four months ago I picked up my HPD's. At first they were kind of dull sounding. I then updated the crossovers with Solen Caps and Mill resistors. This was a vast improvement over what I was hearing.

My mid still seemed to sound a little off, so I added some more foam and a couple pounds of polyfill to the enclosure. That fixed that problem, but now I was lacking bass.

After a couple months of listening, something was bothering me about the sound of the speaker. Vocals sounded a little nasal and the tone wasn't just right, so I upgraded the caps again, this time to Sonic Caps. Thanks again for the tip Jesse.

I knew for a while that I should have new cabinets built. Besides the fact that the Tannoy cabs were on the small size for a 15" driver, they were made of fibreboard with very little bracing.

Using parameters from Tannoy, I drew up a design in WinISD, and printed them up for a buddy of mine who's a carpenter.

The new cabs were made of 3/4" MDF all around, with a extra 1/2" sheet on the front. At the bottom of the driver a 3/4" thick shelf was installed. Parts Express 3/4" Sonic Barrier was uses on the back wall behind the driver, 2.5" acoustic foam was used on top, with 1.5" foam for the rest of the enclosure. Two 4"x4.75" Precision Port tubes were used per enclosure, tuned to 35hz.

Internal wiring from the binding posts was some kind of braided Kimber Kable, this was upgraded to Goertz AG2 cable, the same cable I'm using from my amp to the speakers. Internal wiring from the crossover was upgraded a month or two ago with some silver hybrid copper cable from Ben. I have two silver inductors made of Goertz silver cable, once I can figure out how to do it neatly, I'm going to unroll the inductors and use them from my crossovers to my drivers.

As for finishing them, I'm going to have to wait till my back and neck get a little better, they're easily over 100lbs. The plan so far is to use a piece of 1/4" MDF from the bottom to 1" below the driver. I'd like to make it appear that it's real wood, preferably redwood. The rest of the enclosure will be painted black. The rest of the face will be a matte black (like the old cabs), the rest of the cabinet will be gloss black.

As for the sound of the new cabs and re-wire, wow! I had to check to make sure my sub wasn't on. Bass is deep and plentiful, mids are clear, highs slightly crisper. Soundstage between the speakers rival's my SDA 2B's. :eek:

Now for the pics.

Crossover.

http://www.cleanandquiet.com/upload/store/crossover1.jpg

Internal cable.

http://www.cleanandquiet.com/upload/store/silver%20inductor%20cable.jpg

WinISD image.

http://www.cleanandquiet.com/upload/store/200%20Litre%20HPD%20Cabs.JPG

:*O

http://www.cleanandquiet.com/upload/store/monkey.jpg


http://www.cleanandquiet.com/upload/store/monkey%20guts.jpg

Old cabs.

http://www.cleanandquiet.com/upload/store/redback3.jpg

New cabs.

http://www.cleanandquiet.com/upload/store/new%20cabs.jpg

Yes, I know they're ugly as sin right now. But the sound coming out of them more than makes up for it.

If you made it this far, thanks!

[John in MA]

Oh yes. Looks great, can't imagine how they sound.

[ben62670]

Hey man don't hurt your back! More!!!

[BaggedLancer]

Those Tannoy's and Mcintosh gear sort of remind of some white van stuff I've seen......kidding!

They look good. You should paint them blood red to match the walls.

[george daniel]

Hey,, it looks pretty good from where I'm sitting--congrats.:)

[Early B.]

They look good. You should paint them blood red to match the walls.

Yeah, blood red face the rest of the cabinets black.

[polrbehr]

Yeah, they do look nice and sturdy... should hold a bottle or two, I think , even if they're not vintage Polks. ;)

[engtaz]

That's some great work.

engtaz

[m00npie]

I couldn’t help but notice your mug shot on the TV picture...

[F1nut]

Like George said, "looks pretty good from where I'm sitting"

[TroyD]

Nice!!

You probably could have gotten better results just adding a cap indiscriminately somewhere though. Just a though for next time.

BDT

[sucks2beme]

Now you need a bigger tv to balance out the look.

[Music Joe]

Love those crossovers...very nice work. You went all gung-ho moving all that gear and painting the room too! Looking real good :)

[Face]

Thanks guys! Luckily, I didn't have to do any of the painting or carpentry work. :D

[ben62670]

Carpentry doesn't bother me. I hate the paint prep, and dealing with the whole paint process. Worked with way too many nasty paints, and chemicals through the years. We are anxiously awaiting finished pics.
Ben

[Face]

Unless I can get someone to do it for me, they won't be finished for at least a month or two.

[nikolas812]

Very very nice!

What needs to happen to get them finished?

[Face]

What needs to happen to get them finished?I have a few bulging and herniated disks and a pinched nerve in my neck, waiting for things to heal up a little more before moving these monsters around.

[mulveling]

Niice!
Tannoy dual-concentrics rule. McIntosh power makes it all the sweeter :)

[Face]

Fixed the broken links.

[GM2010]

One correction: Your factory enclosures were not "fiber-board" as it was not yet invented. They were particle board. The MDF you used for your new units, on the other hand, are "Medium Density Fiberboard".

Just one criticism. Polyurethane foam is not suitable for speaker enclosure damping, even if it is convoluted. It's application is for dunnage and not acoustic damping. Both fiberglass and raw wool batting are both far superior. Polyurethane tends to be rather "bouncy". Good on you for including the central cross-bracing, essential for panel stiffening on larger panels.

That said, if you are happy with the sound, its a moot point.

I have a pair of HPD 315s that I bought in 1980. They came in factory Devon cabinets which I promptly sold and built Tannoy spec'd floor-standing enclosures with more stiffening and heavier panels which I clad in lumber store obtained red oak veneers. I used those from 1980 until 2005 when I fabbed new boxes from 3/4" and 1" MDF with premium 1/4-sawn black walnut veneers. They are identical in size to the original and moderately different in style. They have concealed nylon levelers so the veneers don't drag on the floor and get chipped away. X-over controls behind grill and a recessed connectors plate round back with banana jacks.
Both the old ones and the new ones were successful acoustically, though the new version is somewhat prettier and somewhat better engineered.. Sorry, the photo's a little fuzzy.
I had the surrounds replaced in 2003. Worth the price. I don't see why I would ever seek to replace these wonderful speakers.

BTW, I worked for a pro sound reinforcement company for 14 years in my youth back in the seventies and eighties where I built bass bins, wedges, racks, sub-woofer enclosures, cases, etc., as well as studio monitors (we carried the JBL Pro Series line as well as EV and KEF to name a few). I had the bug in those days and bought a lot of different gear at cost plus 5%. I was a drummer as well so that's where the rest of my dough went.

[wayne3burk]

Nice Tannoys Mr. GM

[TECHNOKID]

Nice Tannoys Mr. GMAgreed!

[Face]

Just one criticism. Polyurethane foam is not suitable for speaker enclosure damping, even if it is convoluted. It's application is for dunnage and not acoustic damping. Both fiberglass and raw wool batting are both far superior. Polyurethane tends to be rather "bouncy". Good on you for including the central cross-bracing, essential for panel stiffening on larger panels.
Welcome and nice cabinets!

Since my last post, the foam has all been replaced with PartsExpress Sonic Barrier and the bottom 6" of the cabinet filled with polyfill. I added more slats to the inside, further deadening the cabinet. The cabinets have also been veneered and stained. I have a more recent picture in the showcase, but all my gear has changed since.

[Face]

I've also mounted the crossovers externally.

http://face.cleanandquiet.com/store/HPD385A%20Crossover.jpg

[TECHNOKID]

Welcome and nice cabinets!

Since my last post, the foam has all been replaced with PartsExpress Sonic Barrier and the bottom 6" of the cabinet filled with polyfill. I added more slats to the inside, further deadening the cabinet. The cabinets have also been veneered and stained. I have a more recent picture in the showcase, but all my gear has changed since.They look great with the veneer, great job!

[GM2010]

Nice Tannoys Mr. GM

Thanks!

[GM2010]

They look great with the veneer, great job!

Thank you!

[GM2010]

I've also mounted the crossovers externally.

http://face.cleanandquiet.com/store/HPD385A%20Crossover.jpg

Very nice. Killer looking rig overall. Mine is much more humble. Good work on the x-overs.

[d.tyrer]

I hate to dig up dead threads, but I just picked up a pair of Tannoy Ardens, with the same HPD drivers and crossover as yours (for next to nothing, woo hoo!). I am looking into in upgrading the caps, but I noticed in the LF driver circuit where there were 2x 6.8uf and a 3.3uf cap, it appears you replaced them all with a single larger one. Why did you do that, and what did you replace them with. Also, how much of a difference did swapping in the mills make for you?

Thanks.

[GM2010]

Good find! Congratulations.

[Face]

A single cap is better than multiple, especially if the values are not split evenly. I used a single 17uf, then 18uf later on when I re-engineered the entire crossover.

The first time I upgraded them, I used Solen caps. I then tried Sonic Caps, Claritycap ESA(SA on woofer), then Claritycap MR throughout.

The Mills resistors didn't make much of a difference over stock, but they gave me a piece of mind since I don't know if the originals were abused, etc... I've since upgraded to Duelund resistors, which are an upgrade to Mills and the OEM resistors.

Here's the current crossover.
http://face.cleanandquiet.com/store/HPD-385A%20Crossover.jpg

FYI, here's an excellent Tannoy group: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/tannoy/

[GM2010]

Tannoy's Kingdom Royal, a no-compromise 4-way system. These are going for around $50,000.00 per/pr.
I want.

http://www.tannoy.com/ResidentialSummary.aspx#&&/wEXBgUEU1NJRAUCMjEFA1NJZAUDMTE4BQJGVAUHU3ViTWVudQU DQmFuBR5+L2ltYWdlcy9TZXJpZXNCYW5uZXJzLzExOC5qcGcFA VQFAUQFA1BJRAUDMzY5StxklmQLOH6eF297LGgIrCiet+M=

[Face]

The appearance is a little odd, but I still wouldn't mind having a pair.

[d.tyrer]

I figured out the big cap was the added values of the three, and ordered Sonicaps before I read this reply. Oh well.. I was gonna go with the Mundorf oil caps, but couldnt justify spending more on caps than I paid for the entire speaker setup, enclosure included. Buddy was nice enough to throw in a bryston amp, but it seems left channel is dead. All in all, I paid $150 for everything, and so far put $200 into refoaming the drivers, $300 into custom solid maple cabs based on the arden blueprints (red stained "antiqued" around the edges, and matte black front and back with red covers), and another $130 in caps and resistors... I think I did well and plan on keeping tese babies for a while. Cant wait to hear em.

I'll post pictures when all is done. Excited.

[Face]

I'll post pictures when all is done. Excited.
Looking forward to it!

[d.tyrer]

Got my order from sonicraft today, and the mills resistors look wierd... they are all the same size, and about 1/2 the length of the originals, and the one pictured in your modded crossovers. Did I get the wrong ones?

Here's a photo of what I ordered.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s134/D-Tyrer/IMAG0162.jpg?t=1281017278

Mills MRA05F

[Face]

Those would probably be fine for the the high frequency circuit, but I'd pick up a 12 watt for the woofer.

[d.tyrer]

Ok. So I picked up my tannoys from the local speaker repair shop. The guy told me he had done a number of these in the past with great success, and also ordered the original tannoy surrounds for me. As soon as I saw the "finished" product I knew something was wrong. The surrounds dont look evenly spaced around the cone, and he got glue everywhere... on the cone, all over the foam, then in other spots there is no glue and I can fit my finger between the cone and the surround. I put them in the cabinets, and on a 35wpc amp, the coils bottom out at less than 60% volume. At lower volume, they sound OK, but the bass response is somewhat lacking, and mid rage is nasal at best.

Any advice? Should I take them back and tell him to fix them, or cut my losses and track down someone more reputable to redo them?

[Face]

Get your money back. The only way to correctly repair a rotted out HPD, is to replace the entire cone. Lockwood Audio has a hard edge surround upgrade, but it's probably not cheap.

[d.tyrer]

I paid the guy $250. The speaker wasnt rotted, but the foam was starting to tare. They never bottomed out before. Now they do. Did HE screw them up beyond repair?

[Face]

Yes, time for new cones, which is the right way to repair them anyway. See if you can get a refund and use that towards a proper repair.

[michaelvv]

Hi Face.

Do you have a diagram on the x-over for your tannoy hpd-385a..
We are 5 different persons in denmark , which are owners of these
speakers and would like to try the x-over.

I have mine build in a 300 Liter cabinet and i have done some tweaks but
not as "proff" as yours...

Best

/Michael