so...why are the LSi speakers made 4 instead of 8 ohms?

[SlowcarIX]

just wondering...

[bykes]

Good question. I too would like to know.

My guess would be a marketing thing.

[be83663]

Could it be a conspiracy theory between 4-ohm speaker manufacturers and amplifier manufacturers, to force you to buy an amplifier by owning 4-ohm speakers, because you can't use a receiver with 4-ohm speakers? :D

[ben62670]

I'm going to kick back, and enjoy watching the answers on this one for a while.

[Early B.]

Bad business decision, that's all.

[ben62670]

Bad business decision, that's all.

Bingo
That didn't take long.

[Ron Temple]

How about after months or years of R&D, they couldn't make it any better at this pricepoint without compromising the sound quality. Turns out 4 ohms nominal is what it is.

[cmy330go]

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44595

[Keiko]

Could it be a conspiracy theory between 4-ohm speaker manufacturers and amplifier manufacturers, to force you to buy an amplifier by owning 4-ohm speakers, because you can't use a receiver with 4-ohm speakers? :D

Says who? :confused:

[F1nut]

They were originally designed to use a ribbon tweeter, but it had reliability issues, hence the Vifa, which is a 4 ohm tweeter. So, to answer the OP question, it has to do with the choice of drivers and crossover design.

Bad business decision? I don't agree. Poor education of the folks selling them and poor control of the associated gear they are demoed with? Yeah.

You have to keep in mind that Polk made these as their current flagship speakers and therefore I believe, aimed at folks who aren't going to buy just an AVR to power them.

[ben62670]

Bad business decision? I don't agree. Poor education of the folks selling them and poor control of the associated gear they are demoed with? Yeah.

You have to keep in mind that Polk made these as their current flagship speakers and therefore I believe, aimed at folks who aren't going to buy just an AVR to power them.

The reason I think it was a bad business decision is because the sellers are never going to be educated like they needed to be. It is just not going to happen at a typical store. Even the some of the upper crust chain stores that I have seen them at were not properly driving them.

Its would be another thing if Polk actually had a store that represented them properly, but that is near mission impossible. I never knew about the original design calling for a ribbon tweeter, and I am assuming that Polk had the 4ohm woofers already contracted for that design. When Polk releases an updated LSI line, or a replacement for the LSI line I hope they make them more consumer friendly. A six or eight ohm driver can easily be produced to sound just as good as a four ohm. I prefer 4 ohms myself, but I know what I am getting into.

[F1nut]

I see it as the responsibility of the sales rep(s) to educate the folks doing the selling. If they do their job, there shouldn't be a problem with mis-matched gear. If they aren't doing their job, find someone who will. Other audio companies do it everyday.

[ben62670]

I see it as the responsibility of the sales rep(s) to educate the folks doing the selling. If they do their job, there shouldn't be a problem with mis-matched gear. If they aren't doing their job, find someone who will. Other audio companies do it everyday.

I whole heartedly agree with you, but it just isn't going to happen when most LSI sales are at the big stores being sold by guys who care more about getting their commission than whether the customer is going to be satisfied. If they are going to sell them in a big store atmosphere they need to make them more compatible. For me I wouldn't care if they dipped into 2ohms in the impedance curve, but it just isn't practical for a mass produce speaker:(

[Early B.]

I see it as the responsibility of the sales rep(s) to educate the folks doing the selling. If they do their job, there shouldn't be a problem with mis-matched gear. If they aren't doing their job, find someone who will. Other audio companies do it everyday.

Lack of knowledge of Polk's customer base is the reason it was a poor business decision. If sales reps did their job, there probably would have been fewer sales of the Lsi series. Try telling a customer that buying a particular type of speakers also requires a separate amp to get the best sound.

Polk probably could have a made a few more bucks on the Lsi series if they were 8 ohms. I'm sure some people got home, hooked up their Lsi's to a receiver or low powered amp, said they sucked, and returned them without ever knowing about the 4 ohm issue. Then if they found out after the purchase that their Lsi's needed more power, they're pissed.

[heiney9]

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44595

Yep, If people, mostly noobs, would use the search feature. Seems there is a wave of repeat questions lately. Justin, can we just do away with the search button no one seems to use it. Really is starting to get annoying and I've stopped answering most of these types of simplistic repeat questions.

H9

[maximillian]

Some people may simply get frustrated searching for shorter words. The search feature doesn't work for the term '4 Ohms' unless you put it in quotes. For example, I found the above link doing a search for "4 Ohms". However, if one search it without quotes or did a search for "4 ohm" then nothing is returned.

[maximillian]

I should also mention that Google can also be used for searches on the forum. Try the following:

4 ohms site:polkaudio.com

[maximillian]

Hah!. Smile killed my colon and "p". Sorry.

[heiney9]

I see it as the responsibility of the sales rep(s) to educate the folks doing the selling. If they do their job, there shouldn't be a problem with mis-matched gear. If they aren't doing their job, find someone who will. Other audio companies do it everyday.

When I was selling in this hobby many years ago this was the norm. I throughly enjoyed it. Unfortunately the industry doesn't support the kind of training and put in the effort to make sure the sales people are knowledgeable. It's up to how motivated the sales person is to educate themselves or just have a passion for the hobby.

Specialty stores still follow this model but there are becoming fewer and fewer of these types of establishments. We don't have a single mid-high end audio store here anymore. The closest place to a real audio store is the Bose Home Theater based store. I no longer have any desire to work in this hobby.

[heiney9]

The reason I think it was a bad business decision is because the sellers are never going to be educated like they needed to be. It is just not going to happen at a typical store. Even the some of the upper crust chain stores that I have seen them at were not properly driving them.

Its would be another thing if Polk actually had a store that represented them properly, but that is near mission impossible. I never knew about the original design calling for a ribbon tweeter, and I am assuming that Polk had the 4ohm woofers already contracted for that design. When Polk releases an updated LSI line, or a replacement for the LSI line I hope they make them more consumer friendly. A six or eight ohm driver can easily be produced to sound just as good as a four ohm. I prefer 4 ohms myself, but I know what I am getting into.

They shouldn't change a thing. I see no issues with the LSi line.

[cmy330go]

Hah!. Smile killed my colon and "p"......

Yet doctors claim smiling is good for your health.:rolleyes:






:D

[treitz3]

Perhaps a sticky of frequently asked forum questions answered as short, precise and educational as possible with added links [using the words within the answer as links] so that the noobie can get his/her question answered correctly and forum members have a direct link to provide access to answer their question?

Example?

POST; How much power is recommended for an LSi speaker?

ANSWER; Look here dumbass...<link>

And on the link, direct them to the sticky. We just have to make a list of the most frequently asked questions and add a link on the sticky to the education link that apparently most newbies miss.

[treitz3]

.....Or maybe a tutorial on how to get the most out of the search feature. It's not the most user friendly.

[nikolas812]

I was under the impression that a 4ohm speaker sounded different than a 8ohm speaker.

Am I wrong?

I thought the reason for the 4ohm load was for a more veiled sound or less bright like there other home theater speakers?

[nikolas812]

.....Or maybe a tutorial on how to get the most out of the search feature. It's not the most user friendly.


BINGO!

I've been here for a year and it still frustrates me. I can manage but its still irritating from time to time.

[dkg999]

In the stores where LSi's are now sold, even hooked up to a less than optimal AVR, in my opinion the LSi's still seem to hold their own compared to what else is available in the listening room. I've been at Tweeter when they are demo'ing LSi's compared to the Focal, ML, etc. that are also in the listening room. The LSi's hold their own nicely. Do the LSi's sound anywhere close to their true potential in that environment, absolutely not! Are the LSi's compromised to any more extent than the other speakers being compared to, I don't think so.

Personally, I think we put too much emphasis on the whole AVR vs amp vs how many watts issue. Someone who invests in a decent AVR and LSi speakers for HT is going to at some point get curious and add a separate amp, and pizzow!, they now get new speakers as a bonus :cool: And if they don't get curious and add a separate amp, they still have a damn good system :)

[SlowcarIX]

Yep, If people, mostly noobs, would use the search feature. Seems there is a wave of repeat questions lately. Justin, can we just do away with the search button no one seems to use it. Really is starting to get annoying and I've stopped answering most of these types of simplistic repeat questions.
H9

you always have the option of

" <- " or " x " if you do not like feel like responding or it annoys you.

[Dennis Gardner]

I think a 4 ohm load was chosen to gain back some efficiency rating lacking in their design.

[heiney9]

.....Or maybe a tutorial on how to get the most out of the search feature. It's not the most user friendly.

That is true, but you can do a broad search and then get your read on. When I need something or am looking for something sometimes I have to wade through 5-6 or 12 pages of threads to locate it.

Laziness and instant gratification prevail many times. I don't mind discussing things that have been discussed before, but they should be more specific.

Questions like:

I need an amp what's the best one?

Why are the LSi's 4 ohm?

Should I buy this receiver?

Which sound better RTi 8's or RTi 10's?

These types of questions and there are hundreds more have been beaten to death. Plus, if one can't give more information about what you are trying to accomplish, what you already have, what type of room you have, what kind of budget, etc., etc., etc.,. You might as well fart in the wind.

They are senseless questions without a little context to be able to help someone out. That's my POV.

H9

[Early B.]

I was under the impression that a 4ohm speaker sounded different than a 8ohm speaker.

Am I wrong?

Yes, you're wrong.

[Early B.]

Perhaps a sticky of frequently asked forum questions answered as short, precise and educational as possible with added links [using the words within the answer as links] so that the noobie can get his/her question answered correctly and forum members have a direct link to provide access to answer their question?

Example?

POST; How much power is recommended for an LSi speaker?

ANSWER; Look here dumbass...<link>

And on the link, direct them to the sticky. We just have to make a list of the most frequently asked questions and add a link on the sticky to the education link that apparently most newbies miss.

Sounds good, but part of our responsibility as forum veterans is to answer the same questions over and over again to newbies.

By the way, this issue of answering the same questions has been discussed on this forum a million times. Why didn't you use the search feature?:p


That being said, I think we should put together an FAQ section and encourage all new members to read it thoroughly.

[Roland P]

They should have made them active :p

[mightymouse]

There is something to be said about active speakers. The amps match up very well with the speakers.

[cmy330go]

I've only ever heard 1 or 2 powered speakers that I thought sounded right.

[sucks2beme]

I've only ever heard 1 or 2 powered speakers that I thought sounded right.

Linn makes activ setups. Their amps and speakers can be made to not use the crossovers.
They sound good, but for that kind of money, they'd better.

[Poee7R]

I thought it was simple myself. A 4ohm load digs into the meaty center of an amp, giving it access to the current and power than an 8 ohm load wouldnt be able to provide as well. Its actually quite cost conscious I believe, you can find a 100 watt @ 8ohm amp pretty easily to get you that "200wpc" @ 4ohms that most seem to rave about.

And to me the pricing should note the use of an amp, $1850 retail or so should lead people to think that these may not be the best thing to run off of that $400 reciever that they bought on clearance 2 months ago. Yet i have a feeling that Tweeter/Fry's or whoever it was that was blowing lsi's out the door for pennies on the dollar are responsible for the newer onslaught of these questions. But then again who knows, these questions have been asked since the begining of time it seems.

But I digress, maybe Polk should throw on a label or "warning" in the manual or even on the back of the speaker near the terminals that state's these speaker's were designed for and require an amplifier that can handle a 4 ohm load.

Thats my story and im sticking to it.


Dave

[skipf]

Even the some of the upper crust chain stores that I have seen them at were not properly driving them.

Now if that isn't an oxymoron, I've never seen one.:D

[cmy330go]

Forget about stores not driving them with good amps. What's even worse...the last time I saw the LSi's displayed at Tweeter the damn things were wired out of phase. Talk about crappy sound.:rolleyes:

[steveinaz]

It's a choice Polk had to make; build a highly "marketable" speaker or build a "good sounding" speaker. The Lsi series are for the serious audiophile, who should understand that a 4 ohm speaker will require a robust amplifier.

There are terrible driver's that buy Corvettes everyday, it's not Chevrolets fault when they crash them.

[phuz]

I prefer the question:

"Why don't receiver manufacturers put amplifiers, power supplies, and related compoents in their receivers that can actually do what they say they can do?" (like drive a 4ohm load)

Or how about:

"Why are most speakers 4 ohms?"

To use steve's analogy (I love using cars as metaphors for audio) - even if you made a corvette with a V6 in it, it'd still only have a V6 and wouldn't perform like a true vette. In other words, an Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon receiver, etc are never going to stack up to seperates. Even with speakers rated at 8 ohms, or even 16 ohms.

[cfrizz]

Thank you Steve & Phuz!

But what's truly mind boggling is when they are given good advice on what it takes to make the LSI's they try to find all kinds of justifications & reasons why the advice just couldn't be right!

But then again the advice is all over the map with disagreements ending up going on between the "audiophiles" and the rest who are budget conscience & pratical.

So it ends up being one big disgusting mess.

[polktiger]

It's a choice Polk had to make; build a highly "marketable" speaker or build a "good sounding" speaker. The Lsi series are for the serious audiophile, who should understand that a 4 ohm speaker will require a robust amplifier.

There are terrible driver's that buy Corvettes everyday, it's not Chevrolets fault when they crash them.

As I was reading this thread, the exact analogy I was thinking of was the Corvette.

One other thing to consider, and this may be way off, but a company like polk may develop the LSi line, invest a lot of R&D and come up with a really top flight speaker. Several years from now that technology will filter down into their lower line speakers. One thing I am thinking of would be the dynamic balance drivers that are common in the low level speakers. Seems like 15 or more years ago, these were a big deal and were only in their more expensive speakers. Much like engineering that goes into a corvette will influence what shows up in a "common" cars ten years from now.