Bi-Wire Method

[Zen Dragon]

Hey:
Here is a thought I had, and I have not seen it covered anywhere, although I bet it's burried in the archives somewhere.
I do get the concept of bi-wiring / bi-amping. I was just wondering this, is there any benefit, instead of bi-wiring, to say, run half the speaker from the channel A Rcvr out, and half from the channel B out, instead of the straight bi-wire??
Anyone tried this.

[TonyPTX]

Let me get this straight here.....you're suggesting to run a bi-wire speaker half on Chan A and half on Chan B from the same amp/receiver?

[Zen Dragon]

Yes, that is my question.
Just curious if there is a power benefit, would it be like bi-amping the speaker?

[TonyPTX]

I'm no professional here (the flow of electrons still evades me to this day which is why I became a mechanical engineer and not a EE), but I'd say that this hook up method would not be preferred or that it would not work because you're still using the same amp to push the signal to the same speaker. The concept of the bi-amping is to put the high end load on one amp and the low end load on another amp. So unless your receiver has two built in amps for each channel (A & B), the concept of bi-amping is useless with just one amp/receiver.

[wlrandall]

I agree with Tony. You'd be hard pressed to find a recvr that has two seperate, isolated amps for A/B usage. Most just divide the power. Read the article about impedence in this month's newsletter.

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by TonyPTX
I'm no professional here (the flow of electrons still evades me to this day which is why I became a mechanical engineer and not a EE), but I'd say that this hook up method would not be preferred or that it would not work because you're still using the same amp to push the signal to the same speaker. The concept of the bi-amping is to put the high end load on one amp and the low end load on another amp. So unless your receiver has two built in amps for each channel (A & B), the concept of bi-amping is useless with just one amp/receiver.

I agree with TonyPTX.

and BTW Tony I became an EE because dynamics kicked my ASS!

HBomb:lol:

[TonyPTX]

Originally posted by HBombToo


I agree with TonyPTX.

and BTW Tony I became an EE because dynamics kicked my ASS!

HBomb:lol:


LOL...now that my friend......I can level with....:lol: :D

[Zen Dragon]

What if I used the Yammy pre-amp outs and ran them into a Hafler DH 220 amp, and used this to drive the lower portion of the LSi's, and kepth the upper portion of the LSi's on the rcvr 80W out?

[polkatese]

aha another hafler dh-220 guy.....I still have that unit, served me well with a pair of B&W dm110 in my past life, that I no longer owned...

One thing that I would say on bi-amping your LSi, it is still goes back to your yammy's ability to accurately reproduce the notes. If I were you, I would focus on getting a solid receiver that can drive the speakers and reproduce music as accurately as possible. Before I decided to buy my Rotel, I tried what you were contemplating to do, drive the LSi with my Denon AVR-2802 (my old receiver) and use my DH-220 to drive the lower octave...while it sounds decent, it exposes the Denon pre-amp limitations in producing accuracy and soundstage.....

[Zen Dragon]

Thanx Polkatese for the "real world" knowledge. It is always easier when you can learn from someone elses actual experience. I don't think a full component upgrade is in the budget t this time, but it is a future consideration.
I would really like to go with the Rti70, and do the Hafler bi-amp thing with my Yammy as a stop gap measure, I just have cold feet on the towers as I had a bad Muddy bass experience with a pair of Polk R-50's.

[TroyD]

Screw that, run the LSi's of the Hafler alone and be done with it. Just MHO.

BDT

[mantis]

I like him already,

Thanx Polkatese for the "real world" knowledge. It is always easier when you can learn from someone elses actual experience
Thats what I'm talking about.Zen Dragon,your name inplies you study The Arts......which one if you do?

Back on track here.....here's my thoughts on ownign Lsi's.When you step up to this level of a speaker,I believe your looking for a more accurate and natural sounding speaker.Now along with that,your electronics need the ability to compliment them.Using a receiver as a preamp and an external amp.......well your getting there.As Polkatese stated,the amp and speakers will show off the flaws of the receiver as a preamp.I also have tried this many times.I even tested it side my side with a pre amp and the receiver running as a peramp.No comparsion.I don't beleive this is the way to go.Now if your slowly upgrading,and want to add a amp to an exisisting reciever,then down the road a pre amp shows up,yes.

Bi wiring is Troyd's favorite topic,he loves talking about THE WIRE.

[TroyD]

My opinion only here but the inherent weakness in a receiver is not the preamp section. Actually, I think that my Denon receiver does a very credible job as a preamp. My opinion is that the drawbacks to a receiver are that 1. The amps are lower in quality 2. Having the tuner in such close proximity to the amps. I think that's where the 'noise' is generated.

BDT

[mantis]

Troy,
have you ever done a side by side shootout with a receiver as a preamp and a preamp?I did and found the receiver to lack greatly.I also used a Denon but in the avr3801.Compared to the Rotel rc-971 as a pre amp,the Denon seemed to miss sounds,muddied up the mid range and amped the bass notes.Strange things that I heard in my shootout.The Rotel preamp was so much more balanced.Nothing stuck out.Warm and natural sounding I heard.
In the short of it all.

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by TroyD
1) My opinion only here but the inherent weakness in a receiver is not the preamp section.

2) Having the tuner in such close proximity to the amps. I think that's where the 'noise' is generated.

BDT

I agree with your fist point but #2 is not very clear.

I'm unsure right now why the tuner/amp location could increase the noise floor. Can you Expand BDT?

HBomb

[Zen Dragon]

Mantis

Thats what I'm talking about.Zen Dragon,your name inplies you study The Arts......which one if you do?

I would not say i study the arts persay, I just exposed myself through reading to a lot of different philosophies as a young man when I was trying to find my way through life. I do find a lot of balance in some of the Eastern philosophies/disciplines, but as a whole find them a tad self-indulgent and isolationist to follow absolutely.
So I took what worked for me from what I liked, and meshed it with Western Chaosism :)
Of course it doesn't hurt that the name sounds cool either :lol:

Thanx all for the inputs I am digesting them. Still torn between the visual impact of a tower, which in my price range would be the RTi70, or the better audio quality of the LSi9. Sure wish I could demo them side by side to hear the difference and see if I'd be happy with the RTi70

[mantis]

Zen,
very cool.I follow(not to the T)eastern philosophies.I also study the arts.
You choice between the Lsi and rt series speakers,will be all you.My only advice is if you go Lsi, then better electronic will have to follow closely.If you go rt,then you'll be fine with what you already own.