Advice on my new Receiver please!!!

[esrivkin]

Being a Super Newbie to all this and to the forums sadly forces me to another of the (I am sure dreaded by all the smart guys) please help questions.

My signature contains what I currently have and I am struggling mightily with my receiver decision. It seems to be down to the following so far:

Denon 4308 CI
Pioneer Elite 94

and any other suggestions you fine folks might have? My budget is in the neighborhood of my first 2 thoughts listed above.

Any counsel you fine gentlemen can provide is greatly appreciated!!!!

[MADGSF]

Welcome to the club esrivkin.

A few questions that will help people make suggestions. I am guessing your budget is 2000.00.

1. How important is HDMI switching.
2. How important are the latest surround formats.
3. Does it have to be a all in one box (AVR) or are separates an option.
4. Are you willing to buy used.

Of the two you listed I am partial to the Pioneer as I have had great service from mine.

If items 1 and 2 are not important and you are ok with used I would look for a B&K AVR507s2 on Audiogon for a one box solution. You could save enough money for a nice 2 channel amp if you wanted more for the RTi-12s. For separates I would also look to audiogon for a used B&K Ref50 Pre and multichannel amp. Yes I am a B&K fan boy :) but I think they sound great with the RTi line.

[McLoki]

Also with the RTi12's as your main speakers, plan on getting a less expensive AVR with pre-outs and put a couple of hundred towards a decent 2 channel amp to run your fronts off of. (center and surrounds can go off the AVR).

Other than that read the questions above. Personally I think Pioneer elite is nicer than Denon, but that is just my opinion.

Michael

[esrivkin]

Thanks for the quick reply!!!
Regarding your questions:
1. HDMI is important.
2. My understanding (from talking to Denon) is that 4308 meets THx specs they just chose not to pay for the certification and the badge.
3. I think I am leaning towards starting with AVR unless there is a really compelling case for separates.
4. Open to used with guidance and after doing research.

Hope these answers help you smart guys with advice...

[esrivkin]

OK I think I am starting to get it.... Maybe

Seems like the opinion is that I need a SEPARATE 2 channel amp to run the RTi 12's in front?

If this is so, suggestions are more than welcome!!!

I was under the impression that i.e. the Denon 4308CI @140w x 7 was more than enough?

Can you please explain why it is not?

Thanks for your patience and understanding!!!

[kevhed72]

If I could tag on to the previous message on this subject....I have been told by the support people at several audio dealers that higher-end receivers similar
in power to what your looking at should be fine to power LSi speakers. Alot of the posts on here suggest spend less on the receiver and adding a decent amp to power the front LSis. To me, this may be a difference of opinion between salespeople who are paid and audio 'purists' who are in for sound quality first and foremost. My idea is to start off with the higher-end receiver first to run the LSis', then possibly add an amp somewhere down the road to avoid any "domestic complications" as far as space / money goes....

[McLoki]

Read this thread (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52304&highlight=amplifier&page=1). It will give you opinions from both sides and may make the recommendation for an external amp easier to understand....

Here is another one right up your alley (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54889&highlight=amplifier)...

Here is the search I used to find them (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2078595)....

Have fun and get your read on....

Michael

[mantis]

I strongly suggest going with the Pioneer Elite vsx94txh. I feel it sounds alot better then the Denon and is way more Dynamic. You do not need a external amp for anything.

With your speakers, the Pioneer will be plenty. I think you will enjoy this system for many years to come.

Good luck with it.

Dan

[esrivkin]

Thank you all for your knowledgeable input!!! However I am now in an unusual conundrum.
I went to my local Magnolia store because they have both the Denon 4308 & The Pioneer 94.
After listening to both at identical volumes using identical movies and music, it seemed as though the Pioneer was under water!

Here's my question (s).
1. Any chance the store or the Rep has it rigged to make the Denon sound better? Maybe a sales incentive? Maybe a bigger commission on a more expensive unit?

I couldn't believe the difference in these 2 high end pieces, it would have left you wise fellows shaking & scratching your heads.

So what do I do? Check another store? Rent a high end audio tech to come with me to assure the fairness of the comparison? Suggestions?

The cash is on fire in my pocket, please help!!!

And thanks in advance for your wisdom.

ER

[xandra]

If I were you, I'd go back to the store. It's unlikely the salesman intentionally tried to rig one to sound better, but occasionally they have stuff hooked up under different conditions just for ease of connections.

To make sure you're listening to both with an identical set-up:

First: make sure neither (or both) is hooked up to an amp.

Both should be using the same: speakers (RTi12s or largest RTiAseries ideally), AND dvd player. (or other source).

Set the the listening mode to 'Direct' ('un-equalized/unaltered'/flat sound) SANS subwoofer.
The sound you'll hear may not be as good as equalized output but it removes manual and/or software tweeking from the equation. Not the fault of a salesperson but it's entirely possible one system has been properly setup, the other played with by some bystander, or never setup at all.

You don't need an audio guru - Your own ears/taste more important. BUT:
Go in while the store's slow and be sure to listen for awhile, often what sounds GREAT for a few seconds, can be grating in the long run. (Like those overly vivid colors they set on display TVs) Listen to more than one type of music.(bring along disks you know, like, and maybe one that sounds poor on your current system. If you're into HT maybe listen to a few minutes of dialogue action sequences - whatever.

If you're listening to something you love, forget you're testing equipment and just get wrapped up in the music: buy it and don't look back.

one word of caution: Denon's interface/manual/and especially dreadful remote are fairly painful to learn (I've never used Pioneer, my point of reference is with the ever-so-user friendly Onkyo line) I'm currently testing a Denon 3808, giving myself 2 weeks to adjust - if I'm still pulling my hair out, it goes back. How important interface is to you is entirely personal - (I'm a rampant tweeker who uses all sorts of media requiring different settings. so it's a big deal to me) I bring this up only cuz you'd be wise playing with the remote and settings BEFORE you leave the showroom - will save you time pouring thru the manual.

[opus]

one word of caution: Denon's interface/manual/and especially dreadful remote are fairly painful to learn (I've never used Pioneer, my point of reference is with the ever-so-user friendly Onkyo line) I'm currently testing a Denon 3808, giving myself 2 weeks to adjust - if I'm still pulling my hair out, it goes back. How important interface is to you is entirely personal - (I'm a rampant tweeker who uses all sorts of media requiring different settings. so it's a big deal to me) I bring this up only cuz you'd be wise playing with the remote and settings BEFORE you leave the showroom - will save you time pouring thru the manual.


Hate me if you want Denon guys ( and I am one) but I agree with this statement. Although I seem to have trouble with just about anything ;) I find Denon lingo and manual to be a real bitch.

YMMV

k