LSI owners your speakers suck!

[ben62670]

Well they do stock any way;)
Jerry and I just did an upgrade to the LSI15's, and what a difference. I always thought that the "smooth mids" sounded muddy, and the top was just lacking. Well these sound like a whole different set of speakers.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1167.jpg?t=1219537061
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1168.jpg?t=1219537097
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1170.jpg?t=1219537127
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1172.jpg?t=1219537155
Ben

[ben62670]

We are looking at his LSIc now.

[leroyjr1]

are you taking orders?

[mmadden28]

What was up with that component in the bottom of the second pic? Looked like it was fried.

[ben62670]

You want them done I can do. The parts are around $225
Sonicaps
2 8ufs
2 10ufs
2 12ufs
Dayton
2 40 ufs
2 90 ufs
6 mills 2r 12w
2 mills 3r5 12w

You would not believe the difference over stock. I have always come home to the vintage speakers, but these really have impressed me. Whenever I have heard the LSI's before I have been fairly disappointed. They just felt like they were lacking in the punch, and the highs didn't have the sustain in cymbal hits. These caps are brand new. It's only going to get better. These things sound so much bigger. You guys can do this yourself. I will warn you that this upgrade is harder than the older XO's. The hot glue they used sticks like mad. Also the caps are mounted on the same side as the printed circuit. YOU MUST BE REAL CAREFUL not to peel the cooper traces off the board when removing the caps.
Ben

[ben62670]

What was up with that component in the bottom of the second pic? Looked like it was fried.

The LSI's are known for burning out the resistor in series with the tweeter. The LSI tweets are 4ohms and run a lot of currant through them.

[nikolas812]

Would that be the same parts list for a pair of lsi9's?





Nick

[ben62670]

Nope. The nines are so much cheaper to do. I can't get the exact numbers off the PDF, but its much much cheaper.
Ben

[mmadden28]

Holy crap that Dayton looks like a soup can. :eek:

[mmadden28]

Nope. The nines are so much cheaper to do. I can't get the exact numbers off the PDF, but its much much cheaper.
Ben

Same kind of improvement on the 9s?

[nikolas812]

Ben. If you wouldn't mind. Can you get a parts list together for me? And maybe a price to do them.

Theres no hurry.

But I am curious. I didn't plan on keeping the nines. And I still don't. But I may have them a little longer than I anticipated. I plan on selling the nines and upgrading to some Emerald Physics. But it might be a little while before I can afford to do that. So in the mean time I might try out you upgrade.

Let me know.


Thanks


Nick

[mmadden28]

Ben. If you wouldn't mind. Can you get a parts list together for me?....

Yes please post--I'd like that too, but more for DIY-:cool: ....the shipping charges alone.....:eek: I think I'll be hanging on to my 9s for years to come.:D

[nikolas812]

Ben I just reread you post and noticed you said you couldn't get the exact values from the PDF for the nines.

Do you need me to pull the crossover on mine to get the values? Or is it even possible to see the values if I pull the crossover?


Nick

[ben62670]

If you could that would be very helpful. I don't have 9's, but others (mmadden)sure could use the info. The improvement all across the board is substantial; not just "oh yeah its better". It sounds much louder too. I attribute this to the resistors not impeding the flow to the drivers.
Ben


I plan on selling the nines and upgrading to some Emerald Physics
I would seriously try the upgrade first.

[nikolas812]

The next chance I get I will pull them and see what I can find.

The rig is down right now while financing a new pre so there just sittin here.

It might take a couple days before I can get to them but when I do I'll let you know. I might need your help identifying.




Nick

[nikolas812]

I would seriously try the upgrade first.


It looks like I will because I won't be able to afford them for about six months.

So in the six months I'll upgrade the nines and see what is does. But my guess is upgrade or no upgrade the nines couldn't even compare to the Emeralds. Apples and oranges IMO.



Nick

[anonymouse]

How the hell did you mount those Dayton's to replace the tiny electrolytics?

[ben62670]

How the hell did you mount those Dayton's to replace the tiny electrolytics?

Two wires;) In pic 3 you can see where C3 was. Just to the right are two 16ga black wires(silver of coarse(I am such a dork)). The XO is so low in the case that the two piggy backed caps are residing on the bottom wrapped in some material to prevent them from bouncing. There is no way to mount them on the board. If you are going to do this mod I strongly suggest getting some 1/4 to 1/2" closed cell foam to wrap those big cans. Another serious tip is to push the cap's legs all the way trough the board, and bend them for support. The green boards are not up to the task of supporting big caps! Of all the mods I have done this has been the most improvement yet from one upgrade.
Ben

[anonymouse]

Hmm... whoever figures out the parts list for the 9s, please post. I'm going to do this at the same time as the SDA-CRS set I just got.

[ben62670]

This is a must do. Seriously.

[jerryj12]

THANKS BEN. I cant believe how good the LSi's sound now!!!!! Jaw dropping is an understatement.

[ben62670]

I am happy. Now just try getting them ouyt of my house:D

[jerryj12]

I will have to trailer with me so we can put your set and mine in it. That should free up allot of space for you.:):eek:

[ben62670]

Dude your $hit sounds so good.... Is your phone off?
Edit: I am a freak when it comes to chasing recordings, but these sound so big, and nice that I can listen to my recordings that I refused to on mine!
Edit Edit. You are the one guy I would let take my babies;) Load them up!

[ben62670]

Hey guys sreiously you hav e to do this. I am listening to Lynda Rondstat with serious woood here. May be its the Jack Daniels, biut-trjkoadsfadsl;kjklsdrfnq;ee4qo;htiohdfasig Damns

[nikolas812]

I guess the party don't ever stop at Bens?

Um last post at 5:15 a.m. while hittin the Jack Daniels.:eek:

Rock on Ben.:D





Nick

[ben62670]

Come over!
When I can't stop with good tunes....

[GV#27]

I can't get the exact numbers off the PDF,Who proof read that fine document before posting it?:eek:


It sounds much louder too. I attribute this to the resistors not impeding the flow to the drivers.

Thus the reason they are called resistors.;):D

[polkatese]

Ben, this is cool stuff. Mind posting the detail steps to do this along with gotcha/not to do, etc.? thanks.

[SolidSqual]

If you could that would be very helpful. I don't have 9's, but others (mmadden)sure could use the info. The improvement all across the board is substantial; not just "oh yeah its better". It sounds much louder too. I attribute this to the resistors not impeding the flow to the drivers.
Ben


I would seriously try the upgrade first.

Nik,

Not to bash the LSi9s, but I am hard pressed to think a cap upgrade can produce even close to what my Emmys are capable of doing. Also, I know how you upgrade. You are gonna sell the Lsi9s even after they are modded. Get what you want, don't just try to put a bandage over it. Why not just sell them and save the money towards the Emmys or that CD player.

Mike

Mike

[Face]

Ben,
Just curious, what's was the associated gear for the comparison? I may be doing this upgrade for a friend soon. I wonder if I can talk him into some Mundorfs though. :D

Nick,
I say go for it. It's going to take you a little while to save up for the Emmy's, so you may as well make the 9's even more enjoyable till that time comes.

[ben62670]

Ben,
Just curious, what's was the associated gear for the comparison? I may be doing this upgrade for a friend soon. I wonder if I can talk him into some Mundorfs though. :D

Nick,
I say go for it. It's going to take you a little while to save up for the Emmy's, so you may as well make the 9's even more enjoyable till that time comes.

Face

Adcom GFA-585 400wpc@4
Adcom GDA-700 DAC
Sony Transport
Project TT
My home made Pre
My Silver IC's
Generic Speaker cables:o

Nick

Do it. Seriously it's like a new set of speakers. When we were listening to Diana Krall when she hit certain notes on the piano you could hear the snare drums strings vibrating. Little stuff like that plus the "big sound" from the speakers you get make it worth it. I am pretty sure the 9's would be much cheaper to do.

Ben

[m00npie]

I may be doing this upgrade for a friend soon. I wonder if I can talk him into some Mundorfs though. :D


I thought the first upgrade was on you....

[SolidSqual]

Oh jeez. . . you guys are going to take him down with the small incremental upgrading just like you did me.

One other thing to think about Nik, is whether the upgrade will increase or decrease the overall sale value. Since this sounds like a new mod experiment, I'm not sure whether there is a whole lot of market confidence. Of course here at CP, most will trust ben62670 and his skills, but not as likely on A'gon. That limits your resale pool.

[Face]

I thought the first upgrade was on you....
Labor, yes. :D

[ben62670]

Oh jeez. . . you guys are going to take him down with the small incremental upgrading just like you did me.

One other thing to think about Nik, is whether the upgrade will increase or decrease the overall sale value. Since this sounds like a new mod experiment, I'm not sure whether there is a whole lot of market confidence. Of course here at CP, most will trust ben62670 and his skills, but not as likely on A'gon. That limits your resale pool.

Most anyone looking for LSI's would probably know that better caps make a difference. The stock 5w resistors are way under rated for a 4ohm tweeter. That XO chokes the life out of LSI's. The one thing I really don't get is the "experiment" part. The suggested upgrade is just swapping better caps, and resistors of the same value. The performance upgrade is a night, and day difference not a
small incremental upgrading Other XO upgrades I have done have put a smile on my face. This one flat out gave me goose bumps. What upgrade are you talking about that was not substantial?

Ben

[mmadden28]

I'm willing to try it--I have no plans on selling my LSI9s :D

Ben and Nick, I pulled my XO out and snapped some pics--...

[ben62670]

I have had them on for 48hrs straight now. I was never a huge fan of LSI's. Never a hater either, but Jerry is going to have a hard time getting these from my house! I am now working on a speaker designed around the Vifa. Stay tuned on that one;)

[mmadden28]

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8109.jpg

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8112.jpg

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8113.jpg

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8119.jpg

This last pic its hard to see the yellow cap value-the flash made some glue show up--naked eye it says 12uf.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8120.jpg

[ben62670]

Thanks so much. Those are excellent pics. I'll try to figure out the parts list for you guys. Notice how much glue they used. It is a mother to get the old stuff off! One question. How much clearance is there from the XO to any other objects inside the cab?
Thanks
Ben

[ben62670]

Thanks again. C1 is 1uf;)

OK parts list for all caps that the signal travels through.
2 1uf's
2 12uf's
2 18uf's
Sonicap doesn't have 18's so you can get 2 10's, and 2 8's
On the bottom you can replace the 18uf can with a Poly cap. This should help tighten up the Bass. I would use the Dayton here. Its much cheaper, and comes in 18uf. The case is smaller in diamater than the other offerings in its class, or better.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-434
There is also a 260uf, but to get that much in a poly would be expensive, and take up a massive amount of cabinet space.
Resistors
I wouldn't even touch the 10w1r stock resitor. It will be real hard to get that off the board. It's 10 watts, and not in the signal path. Trust me you will make a mess trying to get that off the board;)
2 1ohm(optional)
2 3ohm
PE has Mill's both in the correct values :)

[mmadden28]

Thanks so much. Those are excellent pics. I'll try to figure out the parts list for you guys. Notice how much glue they used. It is a mother to get the old stuff off! One question. How much clearance is there from the XO to any other objects inside the cab?
Thanks
Ben

Hmm, I only recall seeing some white filler-nothing was evident-Damn what the heck-I didn't even look inside-My curious nature must be dwindling :(

I do recall that getting the XO out was tight

I'll check again tomorrow-time for bed. ;)

[mmadden28]

Thanks so much. Those are excellent pics.

Macro focus and soft flash-gotta love it.

[ben62670]

Yep we should crash it's almost 5am AGAIN!
My old nikon used to take real good pics. It died. I bought another "nicer" model. The pics suck. Good outdoors, or shooting people indoors with good light. That's it:(
Ben

[mmadden28]

It looks like I will because I won't be able to afford them for about six months.

So in the six months I'll upgrade the nines and see what is does. But my guess is upgrade or no upgrade the nines couldn't even compare to the Emeralds. Apples and oranges IMO.



Nick

You're going to be completely down for 6mos?

[mmadden28]

Yep we should crash it's almost 5am AGAIN!
My old nikon used to take real good pics. It died. I bought another "nicer" model. The pics suck. Good outdoors, or shooting people indoors with good light. That's it:(
Ben

Its hit or miss with this camera (Casio Exlim EX-S770).I has the previous iteration (dropped it):(, I liked it so much I had to get this one. Small, slim, ultra portable (for when I don't want to lug around my fuller size Canon G5). Best feature on it? Past-movie mode-it records a loop of about 6 seconds, when you see something you press record and it records the previous 6 secons as well. Great when you're trying to capture the kids doing something funny without recording nothing all day.

I'm out -good night..

[steelervic]

ben, would i be better off building new xo's instead of trying to modify them? i have only built a few and by far am no expert, i hate to risk damaging them and if i don't like the new xo i could just use the stock ones. what do you think? do you know about how much it would cost to build new ones?
thanks, vic

[gwh]

I have one crossover from a LSI 15 if someone is serious about trying this mod.

$10 shipped for a practice run.



G

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Since when did stock LSi speakers begin to suck? I haven't been around much lately - did my speakers start sucking and I not even notice????

[ben62670]

ben, would i be better off building new xo's instead of trying to modify them? i have only built a few and by far am no expert, i hate to risk damaging them and if i don't like the new xo i could just use the stock ones. what do you think? do you know about how much it would cost to build new ones?
thanks, vic

You would be better off using the stock XO board. You will need an X-acto, de-soldering braid, and/or a solder sucker. The leads of any component that needs to be removed should be snipped, and the component carefully removed from the board. You will not want to go back after the upgrade.
Ben

[ben62670]

LSI's don't suck
That would be like me saying that the old monitors suck, or the SDA's suck.
The Cabs are very well built, and beautiful.
The drivers are very very good.
The tweeter is top notch.
The fit, and finish is top notch.
The XO's have an issue with the tweeter resistor burning out when driven hard.
The 5w resistor can not handle being driven hard with a 4ohm tweeter. A 4ohm tweeter puts twice the load on the resistor than an 8ohm tweeter would. It limits the mid/highs. Look at the caps on the board. They are generic caps.
What I am sayingIs that the LSI's with moderate mods can be transformed into a much better than stock speaker. I have heard a bunch of different speakers. The LSI's with moderate upgrades can hold their own against many speakers costing much much more. Nearly everything that is mass produced has some compromises. I am not bashing here. Most of the people on this forum are in the top 1% of people that actually care about sound. This is not a WalMart crowd full of HTIB fans, or Bose fans. If this was a forum on HP cars, or trucks people that were into such things would strive for better performance. To what degree is an individual thing. The LSI's are better constructed than the SDA's. The SDA's that many love came with the same style resistors, and caps. People are all for upgrading them. Why keep yourself in a little box and think that the LSI's are as good, or nearly as good as they can get.

I never truly thought the LSI's sucked.
The heading was a humorous attention grabber.
I just wanted to make this clear so any newbies that are looking at LSI's don't get discouraged. Seeing WE CAN'T EDIT here any more I can't fix the first post so people that don't get the sarcasm could have it spelled out for them.
Ben

[nikolas812]

You're going to be completely down for 6mos?



LOL!! Never.. I don't know where you got that idea. I just won't be able to afford the speakers I really want for another six months(Tax Return Time).

I'll have tunes in the meantime. You can bet on that.;)



Nick

[jerryj12]

I have had them on for 48hrs straight now. I was never a huge fan of LSI's. Never a hater either, but Jerry is going to have a hard time getting these from my house! I am now working on a speaker designed around the Vifa. Stay tuned on that one;)

Woohoo I get the big boys.... Sounds like a deal to me.lol:D

[jon s]

How did you remove the crossover from the speaker cabinets? The wiring is pretty tight going to the upper cabinet. isn't the midrange/tweeter cabinet sealed from the lower part?

[mmadden28]

How did you remove the crossover from the speaker cabinets? The wiring is pretty tight going to the upper cabinet. isn't the midrange/tweeter cabinet sealed from the lower part?

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/Misc/Drink_Me.jpg

[ben62670]

How did you remove the crossover from the speaker cabinets? The wiring is pretty tight going to the upper cabinet. isn't the midrange/tweeter cabinet sealed from the lower part?

There is a caulk like plug between the two cabs. The drivers must be removed, and you pull the wires all at the same time. Save the ball of caulk as it is non hardening. Just roll it back up, and insert it again when you are done;)

[mmadden28]

Thanks again. C1 is 1uf;)

OK parts list for all caps that the signal travels through.
2 1uf's
2 12uf's
2 18uf's
Sonicap doesn't have 18's so you can get 2 10's, and 2 8's
On the bottom you can replace the 18uf can with a Poly cap. This should help tighten up the Bass. I would use the Dayton here. Its much cheaper, and comes in 18uf. The case is smaller in diamater than the other offerings in its class, or better.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-434
There is also a 260uf, but to get that much in a poly would be expensive, and take up a massive amount of cabinet space.
Resistors
I wouldn't even touch the 10w1r stock resitor. It will be real hard to get that off the board. It's 10 watts, and not in the signal path. Trust me you will make a mess trying to get that off the board;)
2 1ohm(optional)
2 3ohm
PE has Mill's both in the correct values :)


The Sonicap (or do you have a better source) web site is horrible. Hey Soniccraft its 2008!
For the Sonicaps, which model do I want? GenI, GenII or Platinum.

What should I get for the 260uf (as opposed to the poly)? Or is it not necessary to replace???

Best place to pickup some 16awg Silver hookup wire? Might as well...Is that stranded or solid. Or will silver plated do fine?

Thanks

[ben62670]

Just call sonicap. The website is good for pics only.
There is the 260, and the 18uf's in the bass section that are not in the signal path. There would be improvement , but it would cost about $150, and the work would be real tough. I don't know if it would be worth it to upgrade them. The 15's have a 130uf in the signal path that helped considerably, but the real big improvement is in the tweeter section on the nines.
Ben

[mmadden28]

Just call sonicap. The website is good for pics only.

So no difference with GenI, GenII or Platinum? Or is only one of them a current product?

[ben62670]

Gen I is the only one that has the values you need.

[mmadden28]

Thanks! What about the 260uf? What should I do about that-leave it as is or replace with big expensive poly? Another electro? I'm about to finish my partsexpress order.

[mmadden28]

Gen I is the only one that has the values you need.

I see that now-the GenII's and Platinums are much more limited in selection.

What do you think about this site?
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=4
Prices are the same.

I didn't see an 8uf at either place, perhaps an 8.2? or 7.5?

[ben62670]

8.2 is well within spec;)
Never ordered from those guys. Its easy enogh to order from sonicraft. They are the ones that actually make them.
Ben

[Shicks18]

Ben -- any chance I could pay for the parts and your labor for my LSi9s? Excluding shipping, what cost would I be looking at?

Thanks

[zingo]

I read a review between a ton a caps including Sonicap; and it concluded that Sonicap and other premium brands did make a large difference in SQ over budget brands (as many members here would testify). He also mentioned though that the difference between the different levels of Sonicaps has high diminished return. The reviewer stated that two speakers built with different Sonicaps were distinguishable when being listened to side-by-side, but not with A/B listening; and the improvements were minor. Granted this is only one persons opinion, but it sounded pretty reasonable to me. Take Ben's advise and Gen Is are all you need if you want to go Sonicap.

[ben62670]

Thanks! What about the 260uf? What should I do about that-leave it as is or replace with big expensive poly? Another electro? I'm about to finish my partsexpress order.

I wouldn't bother with the 260uf. You can do it, but you would have to order 4 100uf's, and 2 60uf's from Dayton. If you did that you should also do the 18uf in the bass circuit. This would be 2 of these.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-434
Ben

[ben62670]

Ben -- any chance I could pay for the parts and your labor for my LSi9s? Excluding shipping, what cost would I be looking at?

Thanks

It would depend on the caps you wanted to use. I would definitely use the Sonicaps on the highs. For the lows you could order 2 10uf's, and 2 8uf's to make the 18uf on the upper mid bass. The 260uf you would have to go with another brand like Dayton. Like I said before the 260uf might be a very minimal performance upgrade. The mounting would be a real pain too. Hopefully Mmad can share the total price of the parts. I would charge $80 to do the upgrade. It took me about 4 hrs to do the upgrade. I have the silver solder, glue sticks, solder sucker, and desoldering braid covered. The hardest part is removing the old components. I can not stress enough that you need to be real careful removing them. I know I posted it before, but you need to clip all the leads that are soldered to the board before you even attempt to remove the components. I am not trying to scare anyone, but sometimes guys figure I can do it if I am careful. CLIP THE LEADS, take your time, and it will go just fine.
Ben

[Face]

Do they use more glue now than in the Monitor and SDA days?

[ben62670]

Do they use more glue now than in the Monitor and SDA days?

The stuff they use is like the stuff they used to glue the SDA cabs together. With SDA, and monitor XO's you could just apply heat to the solder, and pull the components off the board. I used an old soldering iron to clean the glue from around the components to remove them. The I cut the legs off the components, and then "pried/shaved" them off the board with a razor blade. I know you can handle it. You just have to take your time, and be careful. One thing I can almost promise is if you don't cut the leads on the caps, and resistors you will pull up a trace off the circuit board.
Ben

[Face]

Thanks for the heads up.

[mmadden28]

Minimum Parts: $135.50

Parts Express
Part # Description Price Qty Ext. Price
027-434 Dayton DMPC-18 µf Poly Cap $5.65 2 $11.30
005-3 Mills 3 Ohm 12W resistor $3.50 2 $7.00
Subtotal $18.30

Sonicap
-- Sonicap 1 µf (gen I) $5.80 2 $11.60
-- Sonicap 12 µf (gen I) $19.60 2 $39.20
-- Sonicap 8.2 µf (gen I) $15.60 2 $31.20
-- Sonicap 10 µf (gen I) $17.60 2 $35.20
Subtotal $117.20
Grand Sub $135.50

[mmadden28]

Optional parts: $115.82
Parts Express
Part # Description Price Qty Ext. Price
005-1 Mills 1 Ohm 12W resistor $3.50 2 $7.00
027-434 Dayton DMPC-18 µf Poly Cap $5.65 2 $11.30
027-447 Dayton DMPC-100 µf Cap $13.88 4 $55.52
027-444 Dayton DMPC-60 µf Cap $21.00 2 $42.00
Subtotal $115.82

[ben62670]

Did you brake out the big guns on those:eek:

[mmadden28]

Grand Grand subtotal with all parts:
$251.32
+ about $19 shipping combined

[ben62670]

Well now we have someone going full out!
The part numbers are off;)

[mmadden28]

Did you brake out the big guns on those:eek:

Nah, just did the calculations-for a possible minimal return and almost doubling the cost. I'll pass for now.
I'm ordering just the basics (except I may tackle the 1ohm) :rolleyes:

[mmadden28]

Well now we have someone going full out!
The part numbers are off;)

oopps-:eek: :o Just fixed it-still had a few seconds of edit time left :mad:

[ben62670]

JUSTIN!


I'll wait for you to remove the 3ohm and see what you think about taking that long sand cast 1 ohm off;) It'll come off.... in pieces.

[mmadden28]

JUSTIN!


I'll wait for you to remove the 3ohm and see what you think about taking that long sand cast 1 ohm off;) It'll come off.... in pieces.

Yeah, well I figure I'll start with the 3 ohm, and if I decide to tackle it, at least I'll have the 1 ohm ready-Only $7, and I'm sure I can alwasy find a use for a 12w 1 ohm resistor around the house somewhere ;)--Oh I know for speaker impedance-drop testing :D

[mmadden28]

Grand Grand subtotal with all parts:
$251.32
+ about $19 shipping combined

I couldn't edit the post---
Update on Shipping-Parts Esxpress has a USPS 1st class option thats about $3 instead of the UPS min of about $9.
So combined shhipping is about $13

[anonymouse]

I couldn't edit the post---
Update on Shipping-Parts Esxpress has a USPS 1st class option thats about $3 instead of the UPS min of about $9.
So combined shhipping is about $13


Looks like you swapped to 100uF and 60uf prices, so your grand total should actually be higher.

An alternative to the Dayton's , which require 3 caps to make that 260uF is to use Solen's which have a 130uf value. 4 of those (2 per crossover), PE part number 027-622 cost 43.95 x 4 = $175.80. They certainly cost more than the dayton option at (4x100+2x60 = 4x21+2x13.88 = $111.76), but will save some space.

Question I have is whether people prefer Dayton's over Solen's or vice versa sound wise.

Does look like the Solen's are available for less at PartsConnexion - about $142 in all for 4.

[DarqueKnight]

I wouldn't even touch the 10w1r stock resitor. It will be real hard to get that off the board. It's 10 watts, and not in the signal path. Trust me you will make a mess trying to get that off the board;)


I agree. I would leave the stock resistor in place, If you want to replace the stock resistor, just clip the leads as close as possible to the body of the 1 ohm resistor, desolder the leads from the board, then mount a 1 ohm Mills resistor on top of the stock resistor.

I don't know if the leads of the Mills resistor will be long enough to clear the body of the stock resistor, but, if not, lead extensions are easy to make.

[ben62670]

....If you want to replace the stock resistor, just clip the leads as close as possible to the body of the 1 ohm resistor, desolder the leads from the board, then mount a 1 ohm Mills resistor on top of the stock resistor.

I don't know if the leads of the Mills resistor will be long enough to clear the body of the stock resistor, but, if not, lead extensions are easy to make.

Very good idea. The leads are plenty long enough. You have done stuff like this before haven't you;):D
Thanks
Ben

[DarqueKnight]

You have done stuff like this before haven't you;):D


No. I just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.;):)

[mmadden28]

Very good idea. The leads are plenty long enough. You have done stuff like this before haven't you;):D
Thanks
Ben

+1 Duh. ;) :p

[mmadden28]

Looks like you swapped to 100uF and 60uf prices, so your grand total should actually be higher.

...

Oh dammitalltoheck. That's why I should just go to bed when I've fallen asleep at the keyboard for the 8th time :o
zzzz. type a word zzzz copy zzzzzz pastezzzzz calculate zzz finish calculation zzz edit part # zzz zzzzzzzzzzzz :rolleyes:

[mmadden28]

...then mount a 1 ohm Mills resistor on top of the stock resistor.
...

In that config, since the Mills is now resting on the old resistor, wouldn't the old resistor then help dissipate any heat generated? :confused:

[DarqueKnight]

I was assuming that the modder would put some type of vibration damping between the two resistors, in which case there would be no opportunity for heat dissipation.

Even if the Mills is laid directly on the stock resistor, the heat sinking effects would be minimal due to the Mills' cylindrical shape. Only a very thin line down the length of the Mills' resistor body would be in contact with the flat surface of the stock resistor. Sort of like the point of contact between a perfectly circular tire and a road.

Adding some form fitting thermally conductive mass to the body of the Mills might be a good idea.

[Early B.]

Hey Ben -- how about an A/B test at the next Polkfest?

[ben62670]

Hey Ben -- how about an A/B test at the next Polkfest?

Sure. I bet I can get Jerry to bring them back. We would just need some stock 15's. They are still here for now:)
You mean PF08? Or another local one?
Ben

[jerryj12]

Hey my speakers don't suck......:D

[ben62670]

Jerry you trouble maker! You should have never let me install your tweeters in my SDA's! Now look what you made me do!
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=153&products_id=8402
A little better than the Polk models. The new Vifa ring radiator.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=153&products_id=8402
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/images/XT25BG60.jpg

[Face]

You should have gotten these. :D
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_270_324&products_id=1580
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/images/madisound/product/r2904_700005.jpg

[ben62670]

Try to not concentrate on the nipples, and focus on the diaphragms(both tweeters). You see what I see?

[Face]

Yep.

Here's the speakers I mentioned to you earlier.
http://www.sumikoaudio.net/sonus/prod_elipsa.htm
http://www.sumikoaudio.net/sonus/images/products/elipsa_pair.jpg

If the Vifa tweets are good enough for them...

[GV#27]

These guys fancy them as well. http://www.krellonline.com/pdf/LAT.pdf

[Captive]

Damn, I am interested in this, as some of you may have read I burned out the crossover on one of my lsi25's.

Still havent taken the crossover out to send to polk, not sure what to do if they are just going to send me the same thing back and then i'll possibly burn it out again driving them too hard. :confused:

[DarqueKnight]

I would definitely use the Sonicaps on the highs. For the lows you could order 2 10uf's, and 2 8uf's to make the 18uf on the upper mid bass.

Sonic Craft will make custom value sonicaps. I decided to do this mod and just ordered the Sonicaps. I use a pair of LSi9's as center channel speakers in my home theater system

The cost of the 18 uF caps was $27.25 each. This was $5.95 less than the combined cost ($33.20) of a 10 uF ($17.60) and an 8.2 uF (15.60).

The total price for the Mills resistors and Sonicaps was:

Mills 3 ohm 12 watt (MRA-12) 2 @ $3.50 $7.00
Mills 1 ohm 12 watt (MRA-12) 2 @ $3.50 $7.00

Sonicap 1 uF 200v 2 @ $5.80 $11.60
Sonicap 18 uF 200v 4 @ $27.25 $109.00
Sonicap 12 uF 200v 2 @ $19.60 $39.20

Total caps/resistors - $173.80
Shipping - $6.95
Total for order - $180.75



The 260uf you would have to go with another brand like Dayton. Like I said before the 260uf might be a very minimal performance upgrade. The mounting would be a real pain too.

Hmmmmm....that 260 uF cap. I have not decided if I am going to replace the 260 uF cap. I'll probably go ahead and do it. If I do, I am going to use two 130 uF Solens per crossover from Parts Connexion. Replacing the low frequency section caps in my SDA's made a big improvement. The 130 uF Solens measure 2.28" in diameter x 3.3" long. Piling all these big caps on the LSi9's tiny 3" x 4" circuit board will be "interesting". Whatever parts you decide to use, you should be mindful of this warning on the LSi9 schematic:

"Components must be able to fit thru 2.9" x 4" x 0.75" mounting hole."

The cost of parts from Parts Connexion would be:

Solen PB Series 130 uF 400v 4 @ $35.81 $143.24, plus whatever the shipping charge would be.

[ben62670]

Thanks for the heads up DK. I was under the assumption that custom caps would be way over priced.
Thanks
Ben

[zingo]

I also have had custom values made on Sonicaps and they are very affordable for what you get. Especially with what Raife saying about the cost of multiple caps instead of one.

[ben62670]

Reading the tags upsets me a bit. Please Mr Spineless person who wrote "salesman at heart" step up. Who are you? Do you know how many hours I have spent of my time helping Polkies over the phone? My intentions with sharing any of the upgrades is to improve others listening. It is not for my pocket. I have only done a few XO's for people and received any sort of money for it. I offer up my house, and time for any locals to come over. I don't ask for money. Just Arizona Iced Tea;) So Mr Spineless please suck my D___.
Thanks
Ben

[DarqueKnight]

I don't know the intent of the tagger, but they may not have meant it in a derogatory manner. I have never heard the term applied to anyone in a derogatory manner and if you google "salesman at heart", you will find that it is often used to compliment someone who is knowledgeable in, and committed to, a particular field and who is skilled at getting people to accept new ideas. The term is not just limited to someone who is good at selling merchandise or services.

In the case of this thread, I think some people (like me :)) who would normally have been reluctant to invest several hundred dollars in modding the LSi 9's and 15's, may have been "sold" on the idea once they were informed of the good results that were obtained that justified the cost.

[ben62670]

I kinda have a good idea who it is. Hopefully I am way off. I am going through some personal struggles right now(health is getting bad fast and I can't get help), and I get a little(OK a lot)sensitive about my work. You and I have a lot of passion in this hobby, and we both get poked for diving deep and sharing our findings.
Thanks DK.
Ben

Edit:
BTW I hate feeling like, or coming across as a salesman in any of my ventures. I always like my work to speak for itself:)
Again thanks. Wish I could EDIT! Justin!

[ben62670]

DK I googled "salesman at heart", and "death of a saleman" came up many times. I got scared, and left:eek:

[mmadden28]

Sonic Craft will make custom value sonicaps. I decided to do this mod and just ordered the Sonicaps. I use a pair of LSi9's as center channel speakers in my home theater system

The cost of the 18 uF caps was $27.25 each. This was $5.95 less than the combined cost ($33.20) of a 10 uF ($17.60) and an 8.2 uF (15.60).
....
Sonicap 18 uF 200v 4 @ $27.25 $109.00



Thanks for that DK-I just sent Soniccraft an email asking if they can modify my order-hopefully its not too late...
I already got my Dayton 18ufs so I won't change that right now. Or should I?

[mmadden28]

Ben, I appreciate what you're doing-so what if you also can do it for somebody for a small fee if they choose not to take it on themselves. I don't call that sales-I call it sharing knowledge and enabling.
Keep up the good work!! And THANKS!

[DarqueKnight]

I already got my Dayton 18ufs so I won't change that right now. Or should I?

I don't know. I don't have any experience with Dayton caps. Face and ben62670 have used them in their mods. See posts 6, 31, and 39 in this thread (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70324&highlight=Dayton).

Ben did a capacitor shootout which included Daytons here (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61727&highlight=Dayton).

[ben62670]

Ben, I appreciate what you're doing-so what if you also can do it for somebody for a small fee if they choose not to take it on themselves. I don't call that sales-I call it sharing knowledge and enabling.
Keep up the good work!! And THANKS!

Thanks bud. There are only two here that I really don't play well with. The rest of you guys are real cool. Even if some of you are wrong about your opinions:eek::p:)
Ben

[Face]

For the price, I like Dayton's 1%'s. They added more detail and have a little more high end tilt than the OEM caps in my Tannoy Saturns. They don't have the depth that Sonic Caps have though. I did recently bypass some Sonic Cap Gen I's with .1uf Dayton 1%'s recently and it did add a little more high end without losing anything else.

[mmadden28]

I don't know. I don't have any experience with Dayton caps. Face and ben62670 have used them in their mods. See posts 6, 31, and 39 in this thread (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70324&highlight=Dayton).

Ben did a capacitor shootout which included Daytons here (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61727&highlight=Dayton).

Holy crap my head is spinning afer reading all that (well mostly ) including the links that they linked to and so on and so on...;). Oh BTW, thanks for those links DK.

I'll make this easy on myself...:o Ben, assuming I can get the Sonicap 18uF (unlisted) for the highs, should I continue to use the Dayton 18uFs that I already got from PE on the lows, or get 2 more Sonicap 18uF's-or is it likely not going to make much of a difference to bother?

[ben62670]

The Dayton's should be fine on the lows, but with me there would always be a little voice in my head saying the Sonicaps are better. Dollar for dollar the Dayton's are real good caps. The Sonicaps are real nice on the highs. I have never(not yet;)) done a side by side shootout. I'll be able to give some feedback in a couple weeks on Dayton vs Sonicap in the LSI's high pass, but I would be guessing if I gave an opinion. I'd love to do a shootout on my monitors, but the $130 price tag is just too high for me. Others may have tired Dayton's, and Sonicap in the lows. Hopefully they can chime in.
Ben

[mmadden28]

...Whatever parts you decide to use, you should be mindful of this warning on the LSi9 schematic:


Can you post the schematic or PM it to me? Or where would I find it?

Thanks

[ben62670]

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38755
Here you go. I did not see any warning, but my eyes aren't the best for reading.
Ben

[mmadden28]

Pheeww--Now that's a collection.

Thanks Ben.

When do you sleep? ;)

[ben62670]

Pheeww--Now that's a collection.

Thanks Ben.

When do you sleep? ;)

They also have an SDA section in there:)
Sleep?
Usually between 8-9:30 am. But the 3 YO can prevent that;) I actually have some pretty severe health issues that prevent me from sleeping more than a couple hours at a time. I usually get to a point when I am so exhausted that I can sleep for a good 6-8hrs, but that is only every 3-4 days:(

[mmadden28]

Thanks for that DK-I just sent Soniccraft an email asking if they can modify my order-hopefully its not too late...
I already got my Dayton 18ufs so I won't change that right now. Or should I?

It was too late-already shipped--looks like I'll be doubling up the caps. Oh well :(

[ben62670]

Do you have a glue gun? It is a necessity on this upgrade.
Ben

[gwh]

Are you still planning on moding a LSIC ?




G

[ben62670]

Are you still planning on moding a LSIC ?
G
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1198.jpg?t=1220673757

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1199.jpg?t=1220673793

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1201.jpg?t=1220673849
Well I decided just to do it. I installed the 12uf underneath, and the two 18ufs above. You can install one 18uf underneath, and the 12, and remaining 18uf on the top. The 12uf should fit between the inductors, but then you still have the 18uf on top. I tossed this back and forth a few times, and decided it would more solid to glue the two 18's together. There is plenty of room in this cab for the XO. Sorry about the pics. The batteries were shot. I didn't have much time to mess with it.
Ben

[ben62670]

Well I hooked it up and played it a while. The reason for this one to get the XO upgrade was to help it match the others. Before it had a problem with a driver getting "fuzzy" sounding after being run at moderate levels. Well I didn't investigate it much because we were going to do the upgrade anyways. Well its a bad driver. I was hoping it was a bad cap, or resistor. When the VC heats up after a while it starts to distort. Just a bit of info on the LSIc. The tweeter is not the same as in the 15's.
Ben

[cokewithvanilla]

I have been following this thread and considering purchasing a pair of 15's or 9's to try this mod on (as I am unhappy with my current 25's,c,fx setup).

However, this post regards your last statement. The c tweeter isnt the same as the 15? I have taken out the tweeter in my c,fx and 25 and the 25's tweeter looks different on the inside, but I thought that was just maybe because it was an older build date. I also inquired about a new tweeter from polk and they said "for the lsi series, $100" so i figured they were all the same.

[ben62670]

I have been following this thread and considering purchasing a pair of 15's or 9's to try this mod on (as I am unhappy with my current 25's,c,fx setup).

However, this post regards your last statement. The c tweeter isnt the same as the 15? I have taken out the tweeter in my c,fx and 25 and the 25's tweeter looks different on the inside, but I thought that was just maybe because it was an older build date. I also inquired about a new tweeter from polk and they said "for the lsi series, $100" so i figured they were all the same.

The magnet structure of the LSIc tweeter is definitely smaller. I don't know if they used a better magnet, but it does sound just as good as the 15's. Did you mention that you are a Club Polk member to get the discount?
Ben

[cokewithvanilla]

nope, i just sent polk a email. I am not in dire need of a tweeter, but I cannot find the papers on my C. I was [playing at decent volume levels and smelled something coming from the tweeter O_O. Figured I would inquire about a replacement.

the tweeter in the fx looks the same as the C, incase you were wondering O_O

Have you done that mod on 15's yet? I have no idea what I am going to do with my setup... I think I need to hear it in a bigger room (soon soon, I keep telling myself O_O), I have listened to some material and it sounds great, others do not. I think my setup has the potential, but maybe I would want to do away with the active subs in the 25s.... I was looking at a 9 as a rear, and also could later double as a bookshelf speaker if I ever took apart my system, or 15's to demo against my 25s..... but if this mod makes them so much better, then they would replace my 25s...

[ben62670]

You have to let them know you are a CP member, and you will get a good discount. The 15's I did first. As for some material sounding better, and some sounding worse it happen the further up the food chain you go. The more resolution the more analytical its gets. The Vifa tweeters are pretty forgiving compared to most I have heard.
Ben

[mmadden28]

Holy mackeral-felt like forever waiting for these parts to arrive from Sonicraft-they finally arrived today-Now to start modding :D.......

[mmadden28]

Ben how can you not be online? Its only 1am ;)

[ben62670]

Well I tried to sleep. Take pics!

[mmadden28]

Well I tried to sleep. Take pics!

I will-didn't get started yet-hopefully tomorrow. :o
so much to do, so much to listen to, so little time. I can't stay awake.

[ben62670]

.....I can't stay awake.
That is so much better than I can't sleep!
GN MM
Don't let the upgradis bug bite:D

[Early B.]

Holy mackeral-felt like forever waiting for these parts to arrive from Sonicraft-they finally arrived today-Now to start modding :D.......

Yeah, Soniccraft's distributuion center in Arkansas got hit hard by Gustav, so it took them a few days to regroup.

[mmadden28]

Yeah, Soniccraft's distributuion center in Arkansas got hit hard by Gustav, so it took them a few days to regroup.

Picked up on 9/2 delivered on 9/8---6 days-its likely normal for UPS Ground-it just felt like forever-like waiting for christmas or suimmer vacation or a pot of water to boil, or,.....;). Maybe my package just squeeked out in time?


WEST CHESTER, PA, US 09/08/2008 1:27 P.M. DELIVERY
09/08/2008 4:26 A.M. OUT FOR DELIVERY
WEST CHESTER, PA, US 09/05/2008 8:51 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
NEW STANTON, PA, US 09/05/2008 4:11 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
NEW STANTON, PA, US 09/04/2008 7:19 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
COLUMBUS, OH, US 09/04/2008 2:46 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
09/04/2008 2:32 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
LEXINGTON, KY, US 09/04/2008 10:51 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
09/04/2008 6:18 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
KNOXVILLE, TN, US 09/04/2008 3:13 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
KNOXVILLE, TN, US 09/03/2008 10:17 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
LITTLE ROCK, AR, US 09/03/2008 3:18 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
LITTLE ROCK, AR, US 09/02/2008 9:58 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
HOT SPRINGS, AR, US 09/02/2008 8:35 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
09/02/2008 7:11 P.M. ORIGIN SCAN

[mmadden28]

That is so much better than I can't sleep!
GN MM
Don't let the upgradis bug bite:D

I......Neeeddd....toooooo.....taaassste.......sold er......
Ouch--:eek: something bit me. :confused:

Hey who took my debit and CCards out of my wallet??

[jimiles]

Ben, that's awesome work. :cool: The press raved so much about those speakers that I wondered how much room there was for improvement. Plenty of room, of course! The only place we have to listen to them around here is Frys Electronics, which is not exactly an audiophile haven!

[ben62670]

Ben, that's awesome work. :cool: The press raved so much about those speakers that I wondered how much room there was for improvement. Plenty of room, of course! The only place we have to listen to them around here is Frys Electronics, which is not exactly an audiophile haven!

Thanks. When my buddy blew his up I was just going to fix them for him. I noticed they used the same type of cap as the vintage speakers. All I have to say is it is as close to an active XO I have heard yet.


Edit: BTW Teflon Silver plated hookup wire on the extensions;)

[nikolas812]

I will-didn't get started yet-hopefully tomorrow. :o
so much to do, so much to listen to, so little time. I can't stay awake.



Well... Hows it going?



Nick

[mmadden28]

Well... Hows it going?

Nick

Its funny you should ask, I am just about to update with my progress...I finally finished the right channel-its burning in now as we speak. I'm going to post some of the progress pics.

I saw your updated post indicating that you were going to attempt it. Its really not that difficult. As Ben said the toughest part is getting through some of the glue.
The toughest part I encountered was simply trying to figure out where to put the new caps.
I did all but the 260uF and I didn't have to put any off the XO (in the bottom of the speaker cabinet. It would be even better if I went with the 18uF in a single cap instead of two but I still made it work.

I really can't comment yet on SQ as I don't have the ability to listen in mono. I have to rip some CDs in mono or something. I only did one channel so I can do some comparitive listening. I'll do the other later.

I'll get those pics up tonight or early tomorrow. The wife is calling me to watch a movie-----be back later....

[mmadden28]

OK finally got around to it and also finally got around to posting some pics.

Pretty much followed Ben's example (although with a different XO), as well as DarqueKnights mod (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72273).

I only did the right channel so far-I want to do some listening comparisons before I do them both.
I also decided that I was not doing the 260uF at this time. Although I may still later. Besides that'll give me a chance to see if I hear a difference there as well.

I ordered the 10uF and the 8.2uF to replace the high side 18uF. Unfortunately I did not know you could order custom vlaues from Soniccraft, and my order shipped before I could change it-So I had to deal with two caps instead of one for that replacement.

First I took the drivers and tweeter out and disconnected them to ease working with the XO on my workbench.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8472.jpg

Then I removed the circuit board from the binding post frame. I disconnected the low side wires from the binding posts and desoldered the hi side wires from the board-so I could have more wiggle room while I tried to figure out Cap placement. I may not disconnect those wires when I do the Left channel-twas a bit of a pain, esp getting back on.

Next I did the resistors:
As DK mentioned in post #82 and did in his own, I left the existing resistors in place. The Glue Polk uses is some serious stuff.
What I did differently (although also suggested by DK) was I added a bead of Heat Sink compound between the odl and new resistors. I used some Artic Silver 5, the same highly rated stuff used for CPU Heatsinks. While air and the 12W Mills would be enough, I figured why not-the old one is there anyway and I had some compound leftover from my PC build.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8812.jpg

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8487.jpg

Here is a better shot with the heat sink compound
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8485.jpg


I put some tape over the resistors for the rest of the mod to prevent any smearing of the compound (its sticky messy stuff) but I removed the tape when I was done the mod. Warning: Don't use heat sink compound remover on the Mills!! It takes the outer layer off. You may notice some of the label missing on later shots on the 1ohm. :o

I had a bit of trouble trying to figure out exactly how to best do the layout.
I ended with all the caps on the XO board and none offboard, although when I do the 260uF, the two 130uFs will be offboard.

I started with the 1uF. I removed the old and as much of the glue as I could. There is a lot of real estate where that 1uF is. I considered putting one of the other biggies there, but no matter which config I tried, it was just too big to fit and still allow the XO to screw back on to the mount. If I could have only moved that 260uF over just 1/8" thinkgs would be different. If I were to offmount a replcement 260uF I would have also had enough room. Oh well, maybe next time. The damn glue is plentiful. Maybe next time I'll try a hot glue knife. :rolleyes:

IIRC, this was the one (1uF) that I had to temporarily remove one of the inductors to be able to desolder it.

Then I removed the old high side 12uF and 18uF. Again, that glue is a beast.
Here is a shot before removal:
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8120.jpg
.
.


Because the 12 and 18 both shared a trace no one side and because of the large cap needing real estate, I decided to move the 10/8.2uF caps to the other side. I put the 12uF there alone, but I used the shared lead hole of the original 18uF cap.

Note the Arrows:
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8806b.jpg

.
.
Here is the other side. This lead is in the appropriate 12uF location.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8804.jpg

.
.

OK this side is finished (except for the removal of the old lowside 18uF):
Note the dangling high and low side signal input wires
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8803.jpg

to be cont'.

[mmadden28]

OK now the other side:
I soldered the leads of the 10 and 8.2uF together. I did this in such a way to allow use of as much of thier own leads as possible to make the connection with the circuit board. I figure that would add some strength and not require dangling on a wire. Although I'm not sure if its necessary, where possible I covered long exposed leads with some heat shrink tubing.

Note my temp tape covering the resistors ;)
One side:
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8807.jpg
.
.

And the other:
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8808.jpg
.
.

Then I did the low side Dayton 18uF. I had to use an extension lead on one side to make it reach from where I have it positioned.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8809.jpg
.
.

and (note the missing label from the Mills)
Look close enough and you can see the black wire just behind the blue heat shrunk lead-that's the extension lead.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8810.jpg

I hot glued the 10 and 8.2uF set together with the Dayton 18uF. I think if I had the 18uF Sonicap, and had the room on the other side for it, I would only have the Dayton and the 1uF on this side.
Shot with the Hot Glue:
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8813-1.jpg
.
.

I added some more hot glue and added some electrical tape just to provide a little extra support to each other.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8815.jpg
.
.


IIRC the completed XO assy, weighed about 16.6 oz. I'll weigh the other channel before I start the mod to figure the difference.
Here's a side shot of the comleted mod. Look at all those juicy caps :cool:
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8818.jpg
.
.

An a shot installed through the front driver hole. Note there is plenty of clearance here. No worries about the extra caps hitting the driver.
The rst of this space is filled with fiber fill.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8819.jpg

I'm not setup yet to provide any SQ opinions, but I have the caps burning in for now. As soon as I figure out an easy way for me to switch between the two with the same cahnnel source, so that I can do some comparison. I have like a 1/2 millisecond of hearing memory so my comparisons have to be at the flip of a switch--Perhaps a speaker switch?? Or maybe a DPDT toggle?

Oh by the way I used RS silver bearing solder and some silver plated hookup wire (Thanks Ben!). When I do the 260uF, I'll use the Silver plated hookup wire there as well.

Its funny--because I had so little time at home-I brought the XO into work to work on it. You should have seen the faces of those that saw this thing. With all the wires and caps and inductors, and me soldering in this small compact thing....you'd think that they thought I was building some kind of detonation device.:eek::eek: ;) :p. They see Sonicaps and they're thinking blasting caps...I never did tell them what it really was. ;):D

[nikolas812]

Looking good!!


Can't wait to hear your thoughts regarding the SQ between the two....




Nikolas

[mmadden28]

Hey Ben -- how about an A/B test at the next Polkfest?

What is the best way to do an A/B comparison?

[mmadden28]

...

Note the Arrows:
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG8806b.jpg


Oops I just noted an error--In the text in the arrows in the pic above (from post #137) I erroneously stated that the hole was the ground side hole. It is in fact not ground, but simply a common connection point with the 12uf (and actually one of the inductors as well).
It doesn't change anything in the way I modified it, I'm just correcting an error in what I stated.
:o

Heres a shot of the high side scematic.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/Lsi9-Highside-1.jpg

Now Let me see if I can somehow edit the original pic....

[mmadden28]

Now Let me see if I can somehow edit the original pic....

All fixed--:cool:

[Face]

Disregard. :D

Nice work. I should be doing the same thing shortly.

[McLoki]

MMadden - ok, its been days - how does it sound???

Ben - How was the LSiC upgrade? Did you get good benefits from it as well? Have time for a quick review? (not that it really matters, my parts are already ordered :D)

Michael

[ben62670]

I think DK has a review somewhere;)
I totally agree with his results even using the Dayton's:)

[McLoki]

The DK review was for a pair of LSi9's being used as a center (although the review was based on music reproduction) - not a single LSiC.

Either way - I take it you had similar results with your upgrade of the LSiC? (even without doing the 260uf cap)

[nikolas812]

MMadden - ok, its been days - how does it sound???


Michael




+1


So... Hows it sound??






Nick

[mmadden28]

Had a bit of a cold or something the past few days-kinda stuffy and my right ear is a bit clogged up so I haven't rushed in to do any serious listening-I have been trying to keep the tunes pumping though, to burn the caps in, at least while at work since she won't 'have it' while she is home. That and when I actually am at home-the wife and kids have me doing other stuff.

I considered splitting one of the channels with a Y-slpitter, but I was concerned about putting a cheap cable int he mix--Then I realized that the Dodd ELP has two sets of outputs, I simply ran from the same preout channel to the left and right channel of the amp. I really haven't figured out how to do a one on one comparison as you would do with a balance (since I don't have one). I really need a speaker switch or something. Any recomendations? Or best way to output a mono signal or combine the existing Left and Right?

When I did do some quick stereo listening, I noticed the sounds stage shifted a bit to the left (new caps on the right channel), but then that could be related to my clogged ear. I am pretty sure I hear more clarity from the upgraded speaker, but again hard to tell with the other channel still on.

Its just my boys and me at home this weekend, the wife is down the shore (craft show :rolleyes:) , so hopefully I'll get the chance to zone out with it :cool:.

[mmadden28]

I think DK has a review somewhere;)
I totally agree with his results even using the Dayton's:)


http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72273

[Face]

I know they're not pretty, but they work.
http://face.cleanandquiet.com/store/LSi15%20Crossover%20After.jpg

[ben62670]

They are to pretty:)
Well I forgot who recommended using a heat gun to remove the glued in parts, but it worked great! I still trimmed the leads off the components to be removed to be safe. Then all you have to do is get the tiny piece of lead tickled out of the hole.
Ben

[Face]

Just use your hands, wimp. :D

[ben62670]

I did and almost lost a trace!

[Conradicles]

The Vifa tweeter in the LSi's, can you buy one similar at Parts Express? Which part #?

[Face]

Polk has them manufactured to their specs.

Why be cheap?

[love2listen]

Ben or Face,
Would either of you guys still be willing to do this mod for CP members? If so, how much would it be and what would it require? Tnx for the help! :)

[ben62670]

I do these mods for Polkies. PM sent.
Ben

[Krazyz1]

Are the RTiA9's good to go on the XO or do they need a helping hand also?

[Face]

Almost any commercial speaker's crossover components can be improved.

[McLoki]

Are the RTiA9's good to go on the XO or do they need a helping hand also?

Almost all Polk speakers use the same level of components in the crossover. That means they will all benefit to some level from upgrading them - the only question is how expensive a component do you put in there to replace the existing caps???

Long story short - yes, your RTiA9's would benefit from the upgrade and it would be well worth doing.

Michael

[Rev. Hayes]

Face, could I trouble you for a parts list. My lsi9's took a hard hit during shipping and the crossover pcb was broken in the right. :( Right now I am simply "jumping" the broken traces so I would love to do this upgrade as a full point to point project (that is what you have there, no?)

[Face]

Rev, here's a link to the LSi9 crossover schematic: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18677&d=1155780535

The LSi9's I upgraded were not all point to point, but the LSi15's were.

[gp4jesus]

to Ben62670: "...I can't get the exact numbers off the PDF."
How can I get a PDF for RTi A7s?

thnx tony

[Face]

to Ben62670: "...I can't get the exact numbers off the PDF."
How can I get a PDF for RTi A7s?

thnx tony
Polk won't release that info.

[jjwm27]

Ben was right, my Lsi9s did suck, i just did the sonicap mills upgrade and they havnt even broke in yet and i cant get over how much better they sound, not just a little but a LOT, this is a must do upgrade. thanks to all of you that posted pics, it made it easy. well back to my chair.

[maximillian]

Thanks jjwm for sharing. Can you tell me what you find better? I want to make sure the $200-$300 price tag is worth it. How would you compare these speakers to other brands? Recently in this thread people have compared the LSi bookshelf speakers to Totem's and said that the Totems are better.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99536
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99628

Would this upgrade bring them closer in sound quality to the Totems? Other brands?

[gwh]

My LSIC does suck, at times, in my opinion. Will I need to do the upgrades on the left & right channels also to blend the front stage properly?




G

[jjwm27]

i have never heard the totems so i cant say, i cant imagine them sounding better than my upgraded Lsi9s. it sounds like i took the muffler of the tweeters and the bass is much tighter. i have mostly polk speakers, monitor 12s that are also modded and sound great, a pair of sda crs unmodded, and a pair of Lsi7s, the lsi9s are by far my favorite now. the cost of the upgrade was $196.05 including shipping from sonicraft. i would like to hear the totems to compare but i doubt i ever will because i am very happy with the 9s and cant see paying $700 for something that may or may not sound better. if you have the 9s i say go for it.

[mantis]

i have never heard the totems so i cant say, i cant imagine them sounding better than my upgraded Lsi9s. it sounds like i took the muffler of the tweeters and the bass is much tighter. i have mostly polk speakers, monitor 12s that are also modded and sound great, a pair of sda crs unmodded, and a pair of Lsi7s, the lsi9s are by far my favorite now. the cost of the upgrade was $196.05 including shipping from sonicraft. i would like to hear the totems to compare but i doubt i ever will because i am very happy with the 9s and cant see paying $700 for something that may or may not sound better. if you have the 9s i say go for it.

Send them to me and I'll conduct the shootout. I'd love to hear the Modded 9's as the factory 9's didn't do so well. I didn't like anything about them really. They fell on their face and never got back up.

The Rainmakers are going to be extremely hard to beat but if they do or even just come close I will have a new respect of the Lsi series with this upgrade. I'm so wanting to hear.

[maximillian]

So if I want to save money, what are my options....
1) use the Dayton 18uF caps from Parts Express instead of Sonic caps. Do you think the SQ will be considerably different?

2) Do not do the 260uF caps. I use a HSU sub for music and it sounds pretty good.

3) Do not do the resistor changes. These don't cost that much so it may be worth it to just do it.

So it looks like a minimum cost is (from DK's post #98):
Mills 3 ohm 12 watt (MRA-12) 2 @ $3.50 $7.00
Mills 1 ohm 12 watt (MRA-12) 2 @ $3.50 $7.00

Sonicap 1 uF 200v 2 @ $5.80 $11.60 (this is C1, correct?)
Dayton 18 uF 200v 4 @ $5.65 $22.60
Sonicap 12 uF 200v 2 @ $19.60 $39.20

Total: $87.40 + SH

That's pretty inexpensive. Will this result in a noticeable improvement? Any other recommendations?

[Face]

I wouldn't skimp on the 18uf. As for the 260uf, you could bypass it with a small value Dayton film cap.

[maximillian]

Edited...

I just read posts 107-111. Dayton could maybe be used for the bass 18uF caps, but Sonicaps preferred on the high side. So it looks like the minimum is pretty much what mmadden28 described in #71 but you can save a few dollars if you order custom 18uF Sonicaps. Also see post #98 summary.

[jjwm27]

Send them to me and I'll conduct the shootout. I'd love to hear the Modded 9's as the factory 9's didn't do so well. I didn't like anything about them really. They fell on their face and never got back up.

The Rainmakers are going to be extremely hard to beat but if they do or even just come close I will have a new respect of the Lsi series with this upgrade. I'm so wanting to hear.now your making me want to get the Rainmakers so i will know for sure, damn club polk is hard on the wallet.

[mmadden28]

Send them to me and I'll conduct the shootout. I'd love to hear the Modded 9's as the factory 9's didn't do so well. I didn't like anything about them really. They fell on their face and never got back up.

The Rainmakers are going to be extremely hard to beat but if they do or even just come close I will have a new respect of the Lsi series with this upgrade. I'm so wanting to hear.

Hey Dan, if I ever get around to actually finishing my LSi9 mod (adding the low end cap replacements), I'll get my set up to you to try for awhile. I've had my ears abducted by my SDAs for some time now and haven't given my 9's much of a workout. And your fairly close (actually probably within a mile or two from where I used to live) so I won't have to worry about shipping them.

So I'll get started on that in the next week or two and give them a bit of a burn-in, although they may still need some more burning in when you get them (I just can't bring myself to leave my stereo on for 500+ hours :o)

I have several sets of 9's so if you wanted to side by side the stock vs. modded as well, I can bring both sets.

[mmadden28]

.... damn club polk is hard on the wallet.

AIN'T IT THE TRUTH!!!! :rolleyes:;):cool:

(should there be an apostrophe in ain't???)

[McLoki]

My LSIC does suck, at times, in my opinion. Will I need to do the upgrades on the left & right channels also to blend the front stage properly?
G

No, you will be fine. After hearing the sound quality upgrade though - you will want to upgrade your fronts.

They still sound like LSi's, just better. (same tone, just more bass, clarity, SQ, etc.)

[McLoki]

So if I want to save money, what are my options....
1) use the Dayton 18uF caps from Parts Express instead of Sonic caps. Do you think the SQ will be considerably different?

2) Do not do the 260uF caps. I use a HSU sub for music and it sounds pretty good.

3) Do not do the resistor changes. These don't cost that much so it may be worth it to just do it.

So it looks like a minimum cost is (from DK's post #98):
Mills 3 ohm 12 watt (MRA-12) 2 @ $3.50 $7.00
Mills 1 ohm 12 watt (MRA-12) 2 @ $3.50 $7.00

Sonicap 1 uF 200v 2 @ $5.80 $11.60 (this is C1, correct?)
Dayton 18 uF 200v 4 @ $5.65 $22.60
Sonicap 12 uF 200v 2 @ $19.60 $39.20

Total: $87.40 + SH

That's pretty inexpensive. Will this result in a noticeable improvement? Any other recommendations?

1) Considerable is in the ear of the beholder, but I am sure either will be considerably better than stock....

2) there is such a bass improvement, I really think skipping the 260uf would be a mistake. Get a couple of 130uf's and replace them. (I think this is important enough that if money was an overall concern - I would drop the sonicap caps down to Daytons in the tweeter before I left the stock 260uf cap in the crossover)

3) I am really not sure how much of an improvement the resistors give you, but they are such a cheap part that you would be foolish to not replace them while you are in there. (the resistor in the tweeter circuit is a weak point in the LSi's anyway, so you should replace that with a 12watter anyway)

Michael

[gwh]

No, you will be fine. After hearing the sound quality upgrade though - you will want to upgrade your fronts.

They still sound like LSi's, just better. (same tone, just more bass, clarity, SQ, etc.)


I might just give it a try then.
Thanks,




G

[bklynNupe]

Can anyone recommend someone in the NYC metro area to do this mod? I just got my 9’s earlier this week and would like to get this before I hook them up.

[zingo]

I know Ben used to do them for members if you mail them to him and foot the bill. Send him a PM and he may be up to it.

[McLoki]

I know Ben used to do them for members if you mail them to him and foot the bill. Send him a PM and he may be up to it.

You can just mail him the crossovers, you do not have to send the entire speaker. (just so you know)

[dtowntke]

hi, i am new to the forum and i just purchased a pair of lsi 15's. i am a person always looking for better sound. i never moded speakers before so i would like some one to do this for me if all possible?

[zingo]

You can just mail him the crossovers, you do not have to send the entire speaker. (just so you know)

That's probably an important piece that could be misinterpreted... :p

[dtowntke]

Ben hi names jason i am to new to pm so if you could contact me about changing my crossover that would be great, if your still doing it

[bklynNupe]

If you are a novice like me and are wondering should I get this mod?
I would highly recommend sending your 9’s out to one of the trusted members on this forum.
I wanted to post my feedback on this thread because this is the tread that I was able to understand the most as a layman how this mod. would change my new speakers. Ben, Face and others who are tech. savvy continue to provide very useful information to folks like me who just know what good sh#t sounds like! :D:D:D
Too many forums out there engage in techno-masturbation imo. anyway...

I sent boards out to Mike (Face) given he is in NY and had them back the next week! :)
Mike even took the time to explain how simple it was to remove the boards from my speakers.


For me this mod was akin to when I added an external amp to my avr, the results are amazing and immediately noticeable.

I can say without a doubt my new lsi9's have much cleaner hi’s and the bass is fuller. Keep in mind that I’ve only had my modded 9's back for a week and when I sent my 9’s out they were about a week old. The burn –in should only make these babies better.
I’m really curious if this mod would make my rtia9’s more musical? I used to use the rti’s for HT and music, but now that I have the Lsi9’s w/mods. I no longer like the way the rti’s sound for music.

Either way, I’m sold on this particular mod, It was certainly worth the time, effort and minor expense.

[vmaxer]

If you are a novice like me and are wondering should I get this mod?
I would highly recommend sending your 9’s out to one of the trusted members on this forum.
I wanted to post my feedback on this thread because this is the tread that I was able to understand the most as a layman how this mod. would change my new speakers. Ben, Face and others who are tech. savvy continue to provide very useful information to folks like me who just know what good sh#t sounds like! :D:D:D
Too many forums out there engage in techno-masturbation imo. anyway...

I sent boards out to Mike (Face) given he is in NY and had them back the next week! :)
Mike even took the time to explain how simple it was to remove the boards from my speakers.


For me this mod was akin to when I added an external amp to my avr, the results are amazing and immediately noticeable.

I can say without a doubt my new lsi9's have much cleaner hi’s and the bass is fuller. Keep in mind that I’ve only had my modded 9's back for a week and when I sent my 9’s out they were about a week old. The burn –in should only make these babies better.
I’m really curious if this mod would make my rtia9’s more musical? I used to use the rti’s for HT and music, but now that I have the Lsi9’s w/mods. I no longer like the way the rti’s sound for music.

Either way, I’m sold on this particular mod, It was certainly worth the time, effort and minor expense.



What exactly did you have done to them??? Any pics??

[bklynNupe]

Without getting technical ( because I can’t :) )All of my resistors and capacitors were replaced.
Sonic caps were used, the board came back and they were a lot bigger than before. Sorry I didn’t take any pictures but the mods were similar to the work done by these same mentioned members earlier in this tread. They have photos attached.
Below is a list of the parts used:

18uf x 4
12uf x 2
1uf x 4
3.0ohm x 2
1ohm x 2
1.0uf capacitor to bypass the 260uf cap

[Face]

Glad to hear you're enjoying them.

All caps were replaced with Sonic Caps with the exception of the 260uf. To keep thing simple it was only bypassed with a 1uf Sonic Cap instead of building an external board.

[dhart86]

Nice feedback on your modded speakers Nupe. You made me feel like I'm missing out with my stock 7's. I contacted Face and he agreed to mod my 7's. I'm looking forward to the clearer, cleaner high's, better mid's and fuller bass. Thanks for taking on my project Face (your a real good dude) and thanks Nupe for giving me the motivation!

[bklynNupe]

you can't go wrong! :D

[dhart86]

Got my modded Lsi7 XO's back from Face (Mike). The craftmanship is top shelf. Excellent work Face! Will post pics later. I can't wait to hear the sonic changes

[dane_peterson]

Yay pics! Excited to see 'em.

[dhart86]

Sorry about the poor quality pics....I didn't think to take the cover off of the board prior to sending out for mod. The pics don't tell the story. Sorry...... I'm learning!


http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49402&stc=1&d=1275748493http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachmhttp://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49406&stc=1&d=127574849http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49407&stc=1&d=1275748493http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49410&stc=1&d=12757484933ent.phhttp://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49411&stc=1&d=1275748493p?attachmentid=49403&stc=1&d=1275748493

[bklynNupe]

Looks good!
Mine have gotten significantly better, I'm sure you will notice the same dhart.
I do now realize that I now need more power. I hooked up my emotiva xpa-2 just to see what they could handle and i was floored!
I don't know if it's just the Lsi9's can handle or it it's the mods or both?
I'm doing my research ( and saving funds) for the perfect amp for the 9's that will give me the best synergy.
For a novice like me, these 9's and mods have really opened up a new comprehension of what good music can sound like in my home for a modest amount of cash. :D

[dhart86]

WOW! Now I get the title to the threat. My 7's sound X....O....LENT
The modded XO's make it sound like a much better speaker. Thanks again Face!
Lsi owners really need to check into getting the mod

[Roland P]

I let a diy shop mod the crossovers on my LSi9's and LSiC.
I'm really amazed by the results. Highs are much cleaner and clearer now. Better capacitors makes the LSi's really shine.

Has anyone already modded their LSiFX's ?

[jbrady]

I would imagine so, but is this mod possible on the LCI/RTS inwall version of these speakers? Also has anyone done this? Not sure how they come apart..... lol

[Face]

It depends on how much room there is inside the enclosure. As for disassembly, are there any exposed screw heads?

[jbrady]

The only exposed heads are in the back of the cabinet but they thread into the magnet of the drivers. I don't think these hold it together, its more to strenghten the cabinet. I believe there would be enough room, they are 3.5"deep, and 12"wide by 22" tall. So there is room inside above and below the drivers. These are not Biample for what it's worth. There is a grey oval area around the drivers that looks like it would "pop" off to expose the driver screws.... but my LC65I rear back surrounds look like this as well and those drivers mount from behind. They do not have built in enclosures though so they are easy to disasemble. My Center is the LCI/RTS c, and it uses an MDF encloser and it's easy to get to the X over on it, but i most likely would only do the left and right since im looking for the imrovement in SQ for when i listen to 2 channel. I may do all three but depends if i can get the RTS105s opened or not. These must not be very popular speakers, it seems not many people have worked on them or know much about them.
Any help would be great!! It sounds like i could benefit from this mod as well if it can be figured out.

[Face]

If possibly, I would do all three.

As far as popularity goes, most consumers who purchase in wall speakers generally aren't into hot rodding gear.

[jbrady]

I figure all three would be best.... and the center would be the easiest. I guess it will come down to weather or not polk desgined these to be opened up and how much it's gonna cost me to do this. I can't see why they would seal them without expecting to need to open them up at some point. If i can pop that front trim peice around the drivers off, i bet the screws are behind it. since the only screws on the back go into the driver magnet. If the screws are not on the front under the trim i don't think they where meant to be serviced.
It seems like most people that buy comercial speakers would not be into "hot rodding" IMO, but my comment also aimed at the fact that there is not much posting on these inwalls or reviews or anything really which leads me to believe they are not too popular. They are the best speakers i have had, and i have some serious car systems in my day. These are very good especially for an inwalls. I have seen alot of people on forums dissin inwalls as well, but these are not your average inwall either.

[jbrady]

Can anyone help me out here?

[FTGV]

Can anyone help me out here?

Maybe,what specifically?

[jbrady]

Trying to do the X over upgrade on my LCI/RTS inwall versions of the LSI 9. For one, i am not sure how to open the enclosure up. 2 im not sure whats needed to do the upgrade since no one seems to have done this on the LCI/RTS 105 or the LCI/RTS C speakers.

[FTGV]

I can't help with the enclosure opening as I've never seen a pair,but if you can get access to the xover try to determine the values of the capacitors in the hipass (tweeter) section.If these are cheap mylars or electrolytic types then a good starting point would be to replace them with premium polypropylenes.

[jbrady]

Ok thanks, i will see what i can do without destroying them :) lol It looks like the front "trim" piece around the drivers may pop off to reveal screws. There are non on the back other then the 2 that thread into the magnets on the drivers. Those are just to stiffen the cabinet from what i have read. 2 screws hold a sealed cabinet together does not make sense either.

[McLoki]

You might just want to give Polk Customer Service a quick call. They may be able to tell you how to get to the crossover and may even send you a schematic for it.

Well worth the time to call - let us know what they say.

Michael

[supra94tt]

Hi, any recommended mods for M70's?? Did a search but nothing came up.

[jbrady]

I will try polk and see what they say.... good thinking :)

[dhart86]

After about a month or so and over 150 listening hours, my LSi7 mod is really giving me what I was hoping for. The speakers are more opened and detailed. The highs are extended, but still butter smooth. The bass is punchy. Mid's sound very good. This mod was well worth it. I can't get off these things a night, my music sounds amazing. If your contemplating this mod......Just do it! Thanks again Face, excellent work! I may be making another request in the near future, hope you can do another mod for me

[rooftop59]

I have a question for you guys: I have almost no space in my entertainment cabinet for another amp, so would it be silly to upgrade my lsi7s while I am only powering them with the HK? It runs about 145 watts into 4 ohms stereo on various test bench results, so not bad but I know mo' better power would sound better. but since I don't have the room would I notice a real difference with just the crossover upgrade for the foreseeable future?

Peace,
Paul

[PSOVLSK]

I'm speaking from opinion and not experience, but I'd think you'd still see a nice improvement.

I've got to get my 15's modded. I spoke to Ben in March and was ready to get it done, but I ended up putting it off. It's about time to JUST DO IT!!!

[Face]

You would still hear an improvement from upgrading the caps, it just may not be as significant.

[rooftop59]

Okay thanks face. Do you know how much the upgrade for the lsi7s is (I searched through this thread and didn't see a list) and would you be interested in doing the upgrade and for how much? it may be out of my range for the moment, by I am selling several things so hopefully I might be able to pull it off soon.
Peace,
Paul

[McLoki]

Do you know how much the upgrade for the lsi7s is (I searched through this thread and didn't see a list) and would you be interested in doing the upgrade and for how much? it may be out of my range for the moment, by I am selling several things so hopefully I might be able to pull it off soon.
Peace,
Paul

click the "LSi7 crossovers upgraded" link in my sig....

Or just click here (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84363)....

[dhart86]

Rooftop
Face modded my LSi7's. The mod was top-shelf, He might be really busy...but if he can do'em....jump on it

[camtah]

I think I am going to upgrade my Lsi15 crossovers with external ones. Where are you guys getting your inductors at?

[jinjuku]

I think I am going to upgrade my Lsi15 crossovers with external ones. Where are you guys getting your inductors at?

Try Parts Express, Erse Audio, or Madisound.

[Face]

Solen and Parts Connexion also.

[camtah]

Thanks for replies..time to dig in..

[camtah]

Yikes !!!! I didn't realize the cost of these components for a full remake of the crossovers..(sigh)

[jinjuku]

Yikes !!!! I didn't realize the cost of these components for a full remake of the crossovers..(sigh)

For my Mission Statements they were $170, for my Zaph ZDT3.5's (Center and L/R) ~$200.

It will be cheaper and yield better results than money on an amp, source, or interconnects.

[camtah]

For my Mission Statements they were $170, for my Zaph ZDT3.5's (Center and L/R) ~$200.

It will be cheaper and yield better results than money on an amp, source, or interconnects.

My mission was to build a completely new crossover (external). By the time I added up the components (caps, inductors, resisters, etc) it was close to
~$500/pair. (sigh). I wanted to save reworking the existing crossover so I could put them back to stock if I decided to sell in the future.

I must have been looking for parts in the wrong place...

[mmadden28]

My mission was to build a completely new crossover (external). By the time I added up the components (caps, inductors, resisters, etc) it was close to
~$500/pair. (sigh). I wanted to save reworking the existing crossover so I could put them back to stock if I decided to sell in the future.

I must have been looking for parts in the wrong place...

Upgrade the XO internally (rework or new) and reuse the existing Inductors. What I've been gathering from other opinions so far is that new inductors will provide minimal if any improvement for the money. My opinion would be to put any extra money in better caps and resistors, before the inductors.

Why put them back to stock if you sell them? Wouldn't you want the upgrade to be added value?

[mmadden28]

...

I must have been looking for parts in the wrong place...

One tip I would offer is to be patient and buy your parts when they go on sale, such as the occasional 20-25% off sales they have on caps at Sonic Craft.

[camtah]

One tip I would offer is to be patient and buy your parts when they go on sale, such as the occasional 20-25% off sales they have on caps at Sonic Craft.

Thanks for the tip..I shall research this further

[Face]

Upgrade the XO internally (rework or new) and reuse the existing Inductors. What I've been gathering from other opinions so far is that new inductors will provide minimal if any improvement for the money. My opinion would be to put any extra money in better caps and resistors, before the inductors.
Normally I would agree, but not in this case. Except for the tweeter shunt, the rest of the inductors are cheap steel core inductors and should be upgraded. If you have lots of time and patience, everything can fit inside, I believe I posted pics a few pages back. I don't remember the exact amount, but it did cost between $400-550, and none of the parts were that exotic(Sonic Caps, Solen, Mills, Dayton, etc..).


One tip I would offer is to be patient and buy your parts when they go on sale, such as the occasional 20-25% off sales they have on caps at Sonic Craft.
This I agree with.

[jinjuku]

Thanks for the tip..I shall research this further

Hit this link (http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm) before committing the inductors to glue or zip ties. Inductors can Cause interference with other inductors if not placed correctly.

[veerapaneni]

I am sad that i am parting away from my Lsi series. I hope i could keep them in my bed room but dont have space:(

[anonymouse]

I found zero audible improvement by upgrading the inductors on my 9s.

[Face]

Which inductors did you use?

[Ericw2431]

i will be gettin the 9's soon kinda regretting it! =[ why so much bad revewis?!

[PSOVLSK]

i will be gettin the 9's soon kinda regretting it! =[ why so much bad revewis?!

The title of this thread is tongue-in-cheek to get people's attention. The 9's are a great speaker that is made even better with an XO upgrade. I'm planning to upgrade my 15's next month.

If you power them correctly you'll love your 9's and won't be regretting anything.

[anonymouse]

Which inductors did you use?

Jantzen 15AWG air core from Parts Express

[Face]

Jantzen 15AWG air core from Parts ExpressWere you sure to match the DCR of the stock components within 5-10%?

[ben62670]

The title of this thread is tongue-in-cheek to get people's attention. The 9's are a great speaker that is made even better with an XO upgrade. I'm planning to upgrade my 15's next month.

If you power them correctly you'll love your 9's and won't be regretting anything.

I started this thread and I do not think LSI's suck. A little time and a few key parts makes them shine. The design and cabinets are top notch.

[PSOVLSK]

I started this thread and I do not think LSI's suck. A little time and a few key parts makes them shine. The design and cabinets are top notch.

IMO it's obvious that you mean they "suck" compared to a modded pair (and that you don't really think they are a bad speaker). I think the title is genius because if you own LSi's, you have to open the thread and read it.

[FTGV]

DCR of the stock components within 5-10%I see your OCD was of the short term variety.:wink::biggrin:

[Face]

I see your OCD was of the short term variety.:wink::biggrin:A 16 hour work day today will do that. :tongue:

[FTGV]

A 16 hour work day today will do that. :tongue:Kinda like when closing time approaches the standards begin to slide and the bigger gals start looking a little smaller.:biggrin:

[megasat16]

Kinda like when closing time approaches the standards begin to slide and the bigger gals start looking a little smaller.:biggrin:

Kinda like in this? :biggrin: :tongue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ9QWe221sU

[anonymouse]

Were you sure to match the DCR of the stock components within 5-10%?

I recall there was a conversation on here about that and folks felt the choice was good. I'm not sure there was any precise measurement of DCR. My experience was that the sound neither improved nor degraded - so it was money and time out the door for nothing. I felt the same way about upgrading the binding posts on my SDA's, so maybe my ears are not as sensitive as others.

[megasat16]

I felt the same way about upgrading the binding posts on my SDA's, so maybe my ears are not as sensitive as others.

May be NOT coz what you can hear or not! Not every upgrades / little tweaks adds performance as much as we like to think. If there is nothing wrong, there is nothing wrong. Additional gains are to be achieved when there is something wrong to begin with. There is little gains to have for upgrading binding posts and air core inductors.

I think the Caps and the Resistors should be a nice touch in the XO upgrade though. I don't hear any difference from inductors or coils. May be my ears are biased. LOL

[FTGV]

Kinda like in this? :biggrin: :tongue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ9QWe221sUHe He:biggrin: That was a funny movie.


There is little gains to have for upgrading ..... air core inductors.

Agreed assuming no big disparity in the DCR.However I would expect to hear improvements when replacing a cheap saturation prone ferrite core in a woofer or mid circuit with an air core.

[reeltrouble1]

The stock 9's are just fine.

any mass speaker can be upgraded and the Polk brand is no different. The thread title was inappropriate then and I am sorry to see it brought back.

typical C is for cookie thing.

Put some quality electronics on polk speakers and they will take you a long way right out of the box.

RT1

[ohskigod]

I feel RT's argument on this. I recently got another pair of 9's I am rolling in my office rig. dayum they sound good. there only flaw is that you need very high quality amplification to get the most out of these......amplification that is often priced at a higher point than these speakers were (evens out a bit if you go use amplification, but new retail? eesh).......which made it a bit of a marketing fail (emphasis on a "bit")

oh, those of us in the know get to enjoy the benefits. I might have these modded just to see the deal, but I have been told they "open up" the highs....I am not 100% sure I would like that, as the laid back highs is something I love about this speaker.

[Norm Apter]

oh, those of us in the know get to enjoy the benefits. I might have these modded just to see the deal, but I have been told they "open up" the highs....I am not 100% sure I would like that, as the laid back highs is something I love about this speaker.

I owned the 9s for nearly two and half years before having the mod performed. In addition to the highs, I noticed a much better defined low end (as someone else explained its because in part greater clarity was brought to the highs). I'm glad I didn't get the mod done right away...I don't think I would have appreciated it as much without those 2+ years with stock sound. But in the end the mod was worth every penny and then some, at least to my ears. For me at least, it delivered all benefits without any compromises or negative impact (except on my wallet).

I'll be taking my modded Lsi9s to our SoCal get together next weekend. I'm looking forward to hearding the opinions of the other guys (especially those who have heard stock Lsi7s/Lsi9s.

[JimAckley]

Has anyone modded 25s or FXs yet? I want to modify my system all around. The C will be easy, I'm just concerned about the others. I haven't seen anyone try those yet.

[mmadden28]

Has anyone modded 25s or FXs yet? I want to modify my system all around. The C will be easy, I'm just concerned about the others. I haven't seen anyone try those yet.

Nothing was modded, per se, on the 15's or 9's--Just replacements (upgrades) of existing components with like values. No reason you shouldn't be able to do the same to any speaker XO, IMHO.

Well to clarify, it might be considered a 'mod' by replacing the electrolytic caps with film caps, but still the same applies.

[Face]

Has anyone modded 25s or FXs yet? I want to modify my system all around. The C will be easy, I'm just concerned about the others. I haven't seen anyone try those yet.
I've heard of one pair of 25's being modified, but haven't heard of FX's being done yet.

As long as you keep it simple(tweeter caps, resistors), the C isn't too bad.

As for the 25's, do not remove the large value cap in series with the mids. Either parallel a few large value caps or bypass the stock electrolytic with a 5uf film cap. If there isn't enough space, you can go with a smaller bypass cap.