New Toshiba DVD Player Anyone?

[Early B.]

Anyone seen or heard about the Toshiba XD-E500?

http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/review/5531/toshiba-xd-e500-review

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001D9IWIY/ref=amb_link_7349732_2?ie=UTF8&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=right-1&pf_rd_r=13C5ZW0X3ZMKT1DJ9QMH&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=434803301&pf_rd_i=507846

Looks like a very nice player for standard DVDs. It could be a decent "bridge" unit until Blu-Ray players come down to $149 and the discs become much more affordable. Prices for Blu-Ray aren't dropping fast enough. That's why a little bit of competition can be a good thing for consumers. Bring back HD-DVD, I say!!

OK, back on topic. I wonder if the picture quality on this unit is superior to the Tosh HD-DVD players which have very good upconverting capabilities.

[Ron-P]

Bring back HD-DVD? HA HA HA. That format war did nothing for prices, bringing it back would again accomplish nothing.

Also, if you do your shopping you'll find you can land most Blu-ray discs for $15-$20, not much more then SD-DVD yet quality that far exceeds it. I'll never buy another SD-DVD player, waste of money.

My experience with Toshiba players will keep me away from their product for a very, very long time.

[Early B.]

Also, if you do your shopping you'll find you can land most Blu-ray discs for $15-$20, not much more then SD-DVD yet quality that far exceeds it. I'll never buy another SD-DVD player, waste of money.

You're in a small minority. The vast majority of consumers aren't willing to purchase their favorite movies over again in BR format and buy a higher priced BR player just to get HD movies. Standard DVD players will be around for a few more years, and innovations in standard DVD technology will likely be welcomed, especially if it's affordable. HD is wonderful, but it's something many of us can do without.

[Sherardp]

Buy a Xa2 instead, awesome for upconversion

[WilliamM2]

You're in a small minority. The vast majority of consumers aren't willing to purchase their favorite movies over again in BR format and buy a higher priced BR player just to get HD movies. Standard DVD players will be around for a few more years, and innovations in standard DVD technology will likely be welcomed, especially if it's affordable. HD is wonderful, but it's something many of us can do without.


I agree. I still think DVD will out live BluRay, by many years. DVD is already well established, and good enough for the average consumer.

The future is "On Demand" and downloads, but right now plain old DVD still has over 95% of the market.

[Ron-P]

Everyday more and more people add HD channels to their TV viewing, more and more HD TV's are sold every day. HD is nothing but a growing format and Blu-ray is a part of that growth. Blu-ray's growth was faster than that of SD-DVD when it first was first introduced. Blu-ray will continue to grow as the demand is there for it. When Blu-ray prices drop to that of current SD-DVD prices (2-3 years is my guess), SD-DVD will be a dying format.

Considering that the shelf growth at most major B&Ms for Blu over this last year has more then tripled in size, I'd hardly say I'm in the minority.

[appadv]

I'm still wondering how did Blu-ray win so fast?

But for now, HD DVD and regular DVD's look fine.

[Keiko]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's seems to be a market for these SD DVD players w/up-conversion. Some claim that BD PQ is only slightly better. My Yammie is an up-converting player to 1080P and I couldn't be happier. Plus it handles SACD's very well. There's not a single standalone BD player on the market yet that plays SACD's. The PS3 is the only option. I take into account also that I can buy Standard Def DVD's dirt cheap now. Way below the BD offerings and they work fine for me. I wondered about the future of SD's when Sony won the HD war. And even though more an more people are buying into HD these days, I doubt that SD will be totally obsolete for quite some time. As far as "On Demand" and "Downloads" who knows? It's a possibility. Personally, I like to have something more tangible.

Just my .02

[grif32]

Bring back HD-DVD? HA HA HA. That format war did nothing for prices, bringing it back would again accomplish nothing.

Also, if you do your shopping you'll find you can land most Blu-ray discs for $15-$20, not much more then SD-DVD yet quality that far exceeds it. I'll never buy another SD-DVD player, waste of money.

My experience with Toshiba players will keep me away from their product for a very, very long time.

Format war did nothing for prices :confused: BR had to drop their prices of players fast and going alot lower then they really wanted to. Other wise we would of had nothing but $899 and up on players.

$35 and higher for disc

BR was an unfinished product as well. It made them get their 2.0 players out as well.

Also it MADE BR put out better disc. Do you remember BR quality at the beg. of the war? Man alot of their transfer sucked. So yes the format war was huge.

Also the quailty of BR over SD DVD does not FAR out exceeds. I would say some discs yes and others not. Alot of crap transfers still coming out. They really need to step it up now that HD DVD is gone.

On topic:

I think this is great for those who have a huge SD DVD libary but I think price needs to be $99 not $149 or whatever its at for it to exceed.

[grif32]

I'm still wondering how did Blu-ray win so fast?

But for now, HD DVD and regular DVD's look fine.


PS3 helped BR win without it BR dies.

[mmadden28]

Everyday more and more people add HD channels to their TV viewing, more and more HD TV's are sold every day.

This is true, but this has nothing to do with the comparison between HD/BR formats and SD-DVD. SD-DVD is much better looking on the screen in wide screen that SD broadcast stuff. At least with SD-DVD, you get full wide screen, but with SD broadcast, its 4:3.

[skykeys]

I am waiting on Blu-ray players. I just purchased an Oppo DV-980H, Universal player. It's not even Oppo's best player, and I think the picture is slightly better on the 980H than on my previous Denon DVD-1920. (My Denon unit was fried in an electrical storm a couple of months ago).

The 980H is a stellar audio and video performer for $170. It plays SACD and DVD-A discs and sounds great. I did lots of research on Oppo - originally found out about Oppo from someone on this forum, and I think it's the definitely the best value going, and one of the best players out there no matter the cost. The Oppo DV-983HD is even a better video performer, but my primary focus is on audio, so I didn't feel the need to pay more. I'm very happy with the 980H.

FYI: Sony did just announce a couple of new high-end players; a Blu-ray unit and a CD/SACD audio only player.

Regards.

[WilliamM2]

The 980H is a stellar audio and video performer for $170. It plays SACD and DVD-A discs and sounds great. I did lots of research on Oppo - originally found out about Oppo from someone on this forum, and I think it's the definitely the best value going, and one of the best players out there no matter the cost.

The Pioneer DV-48AV uses the same video processor, and has a much better build quality in my opinion. You can get them at Vann's on closeout for $99 w/free shipping, now that's value.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/486974189/pioneer-dv-48av;jsessionid=D05683AF63A164179608149F9EFD9A79.w eb0

[skykeys]

The Pioneer DV-48AV uses the same video processor, and has a much better build quality in my opinion. You can get them at Vann's on closeout for $99 w/free shipping, now that's value.

Well, that would seem to make the Pioneer a good value. I am not familiar with that model, so I'll take your word for it that it has good video processing.

But a guy who mods both Oppo and Pioneer players says that the Oppo sounds better than the Pioneer DV-58 AV. I assume the 58 is a higher quality unit than the 48.
http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Oppo_Player_Mods.html

If sound is important to you, my research on many forums suggests the Oppo would be a better choice. I don't have anything against the Pioneer. I do have the Oppo, and I really like it.

Regards.

[sucks2beme]

I don't buy disks. I do have netflix. Good luck getting BR tittles, long wait.
Both my son's have PS3, and one left his PS3 here while at college.
Does it look better than upconverting? Yes. Enoght for me to pay more
or wait longer for movies? NO! I'm not all that hot on BR. I have a smaller tv
(42") and upconverting works pretty good.
Note: I don't watch many movies. The Mrs. or son #2 do.
I am not anyone's target audience. But there's still a lot of us
out there. SD DVD will be around for a while. Kinda like CDs.
There's so much content out there that will never be moved over to BR,
that SD DVD wil be hanging out for years. Sorry, Hollywood.

[Early B.]

IMO, at its current pricing, BR players aren't worth upgrading. They need to be at $149 or less by Xmas to pique my interest. Otherwise, I'm afraid newer technologies (i.e., downloads) may eclipse BR in a year or two. Hell, if the Tosh XD-E500 comes closer to HD quality on standard discs than existing upconverting players, it could conceivably stunt the growth of BR.

[mmadden28]

If only the cable companies would broadcast stuff (the non HD stuff) equivalent to what you would get when watching a DVD, now that would be cool. SD (4:3) is junkola, but SD-DVD is nice--I would rather buy a DVD at $10 than rent one (onDemand) in 4:3 for a few dollars less.

I didn't jump on BR or HDDVD when during the war, however I did get an HDDVD player for my XBOX360-how could I not-for $150 it was a steal. I really only had 2 HDDVD movies until the war ended, then when prices dropped, I bought a Tosh HD-DVD player and have been racking up on HD-DVD titles for less than $10 (less than SD in some cases)

I'm waiting on the BR bandwagon-current titles are still way to high for me-theres probably only a small handful of titles I would really want in HD anyway, and some of those I already have on HD-DVD-so its not worth it for me right now. Some amazing deal would have to be offered.

[WilliamM2]

Interesting review of the Toshiba, all hype?

http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/toshiba-xd-e500/4505-6463_7-33224998.html?tag=mncol;lst

[mantis]

You're in a small minority. The vast majority of consumers aren't willing to purchase their favorite movies over again in BR format and buy a higher priced BR player just to get HD movies. Standard DVD players will be around for a few more years, and innovations in standard DVD technology will likely be welcomed, especially if it's affordable. HD is wonderful, but it's something many of us can do without.

In the retail bussiness, Blu ray players are selling everyday. I Install 30 Blu ray player and maybe 1 standard player now. New Dvd players are at a stand still almost. When you own a HD tv and experience blu , there is no reason to keep buying new DVD players or movies unless it's not offered on Blu yet.

I never thought Blu ray players where expensive. buying a player for 399.99 is the price of a good DVD player. Years ago a good DVD player was 1,000.00.

If regular DVD still does it for yeah then by all means stick with it, I have like Ron moved on and really enjoy Blu ray. I really Enjoyed HD DVD as well and still do. I have no desire to ever buy another DVD.

Dan

[grif32]

I don't buy disks. I do have netflix. Good luck getting BR tittles, long wait.
Both my son's have PS3, and one left his PS3 here while at college.
Does it look better than upconverting? Yes. Enoght for me to pay more
or wait longer for movies? NO! I'm not all that hot on BR. I have a smaller tv
(42") and upconverting works pretty good.
Note: I don't watch many movies. The Mrs. or son #2 do.
I am not anyone's target audience. But there's still a lot of us
out there. SD DVD will be around for a while. Kinda like CDs.
There's so much content out there that will never be moved over to BR,
that SD DVD wil be hanging out for years. Sorry, Hollywood.

Long wait for BR titles from Netflix?? I have netflix and thats all I rent is BR and NEVER waited for any title new or old.

[grif32]

In the retail bussiness, Blu ray players are selling everyday. I Install 30 Blu ray player and maybe 1 standard player now. New Dvd players are at a stand still almost. When you own a HD tv and experience blu , there is no reason to keep buying new DVD players or movies unless it's not offered on Blu yet.

I never thought Blu ray players where expensive. buying a player for 399.99 is the price of a good DVD player. Years ago a good DVD player was 1,000.00.

If regular DVD still does it for yeah then by all means stick with it, I have like Ron moved on and really enjoy Blu ray. I really Enjoyed HD DVD as well and still do. I have no desire to ever buy another DVD.

Dan

Well BR players are collecting dust around here in NY. I see piles of them everywhere I go. CC , Walmart etc and talk to the sales guys there and they said that right now they are not selling and either are their movies.

I agree ONCE you expirence blu then SD DVD's suck. But for the average Joe to expirence Blu prices need to come down on players.

You install 30 Blu Ray players a week, month?

Are they standalone or the PS3? Because standalones are not selling well according to everything I read anymore. Just the PS3 (which i own and think its the best BR player out there)

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I don't understand people who say dumb things like the Blu Ray - HD DVD competition never did anything for price or quality improvement. I'm not on one side or the other since I own both, but statements like that are just...dumb

[Keiko]

I don't understand people who say dumb things like the Blu Ray - HD DVD competition never did anything for price or quality improvement. I'm not on one side or the other since I own both, but statements like that are just...dumb
IIRC, blu ray titles were a little less expensive before HD DVD went belly up.

[marker]

I agree. I still think DVD will out live BluRay, by many years. DVD is already well established, and good enough for the average consumer.

The future is "On Demand" and downloads, but right now plain old DVD still has over 95% of the market.

Samsung Exec: Blu-ray Will Be Gone in 5 Years

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/samsung_exec_blu_ray_will_be_gone_in_5_years/

[Ron-P]

Samsung Exec: Blu-ray Will Be Gone in 5 Years

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/samsung_exec_blu_ray_will_be_gone_in_5_years/

First off, everything gets replaced in this hobby, that's the nature of it. But, you have to take into account consumer saturation. Blu-ray is still in it's infancy, no way in 5 years will Blu-ray be gone, the average joe will just be getting into it at that point. But will Blu-ray last forever, nope. Something bigger and better always comes along, but not in 5 years time.

I don't understand people who say dumb things like the Blu Ray - HD DVD competition never did anything for price or quality improvement. I'm not on one side or the other since I own both, but statements like that are just...dumb
Please explain why it's dumb. Competing formats never do the consumer market good. Very few people bought into both formats because they all were waiting to see what would happen, now that one's dead Blu-ray will start to really take off and as the format ages prices will fall.

As with everything new, it's expensive. SD-DVDs were just as expensive as Blu is now, as were the players back when it first hit the consumer market

[grif32]

First off, everything gets replaced in this hobby, that's the nature of it. But, you have to take into account consumer saturation. Blu-ray is still in it's infancy, no way in 5 years will Blu-ray be gone, the average joe will just be getting into it at that point. But will Blu-ray last forever, nope. Something bigger and better always comes along, but not in 5 years time.


Please explain why it's dumb. Competing formats never do the consumer market good. Very few people bought into both formats because they all were waiting to see what would happen, now that one's dead Blu-ray will start to really take off and as the format ages prices will fall.

As with everything new, it's expensive. SD-DVDs were just as expensive as Blu is now, as were the players back when it first hit the consumer market


Fewer people bought in but to say the war didnt bring down prices is crazy. Like I stated without HD DVD you would still have $1000 standalone players and $35.00 disk

HD DVD made BR bring down prices, have a CRAP load of bogo's etc...

Where are all the Bogo's now?? Yeah not happening like they did with HD DVD around.

[WilliamM2]

Please explain why it's dumb. Competing formats never do the consumer market good. Very few people bought into both formats because they all were waiting to see what would happen, now that one's dead Blu-ray will start to really take off and as the format ages prices will fall.


If Blu-Ray is really going to take off, why have sales of new players slowed since HD-DVD died? And DVD sales are still growing at this point, although very slowly.

[Deadof_knight]

who in the world says Blu ray is only slightly better than sd-dvd what are you watching it one good lord you must be blind.

[Ron-P]

HD DVD made BR bring down prices, have a CRAP load of bogo's etc...

Where are all the Bogo's now?? Yeah not happening like they did with HD DVD around.
Have you visited Amazon lately? They almost always have Blu's at 50% off, or multi-disc specials, almost always. When HD-DVD was around they're weren't very many anyway. Prices are lower now and there seems to be more specials now then there when HD-DVD was around.

Right now Amazon has a 45% off special on Blu-ray disc bundles and 40% off all Disney Blu-rays, deals like these were not around during the HD-DVD days, not as frequently anyway.

If Blu-Ray is really going to take off, why have sales of new players slowed since HD-DVD died? And DVD sales are still growing at this point, although very slowly.
Ummm, have you been around lately and taken note of the economy? How about the fact that the holiday's are fast approaching to which we will most likely see some great deals that people might be holding out for. To say Blu sales have slowed because HD-DVD is now dead is laughable.

[WilliamM2]

To say Blu sales have slowed because HD-DVD is now dead is laughable.


Of course that's not what I said.

You said now that one format was dead, Blue-Ray would take off, which logically makes sense. Blu-Ray should gain sales by default, since the competition is gone. And yet it hasn't, which shows a general lack of interest in HD discs from the average consumer.

[Ron-P]

Got it, misunderstood what you were saying. While one would think Blu sales would pick up I don't see that happening right when the competing format dies, it may take a few years or longer.

Blu-ray is still very much an enthusiast format, no way is the average consumer ready for it and the sales reflect it, the enthusiast's bought in, sales will slow until prices drop. Add that to the current state of our economy and it's no wonder sales are slowing.

[ben62670]

Till it does dishes or cost less than a $100 I'll stck with SD;)

[grif32]

Have you visited Amazon lately? They almost always have Blu's at 50% off, or multi-disc specials, almost always. When HD-DVD was around they're weren't very many anyway. Prices are lower now and there seems to be more specials now then there when HD-DVD was around.

Right now Amazon has a 45% off special on Blu-ray disc bundles and 40% off all Disney Blu-rays, deals like these were not around during the HD-DVD days, not as frequently anyway.


.

More specials NOW then when HD DVD was around?? Cmon now. Below are the bogo's for BR while HD DVD was around: Sorry but you are so wrong on this.

I am hoping to see some really good Bogo's this year by xmas but I wouldnt hold my breathe since BR is the only HD format now.

Show me the last Bogo they had. Sure amazon might have B2G1 but jack up their prices. Last one they had included 3:10 to Yuma which before the sale was $18.95 then went up to $27.95 due to the b2G1. So they are not deals

Amazon is a joke with their prices. 50% MRSP does not make a good deal. Look at the 48% of deal going now. What a joke that is. Those titles should be $15 - $20 an nothing more.

12/06 First BOGO for Blu-Ray movies


1/12/07
BOGO @ Best Buy
House of Flying Daggers
Kung Fu Hustle
Black Hawk Down
Monster House
Click
Talladega Nights: Ballad Of Ricky Bobby
Underworld: Evolution

2/4/07 – 2/10/07
BOGO @ Best Buy
CLICK
UNDERWORLD: EVOLUTION
MONSTER HOUSE
HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS
INTO THE BLUE
THE FIFTH ELEMENT

2/9/07 – 2/13/07
BOGO @ Fry’s
For $24.99
Click
Silent Hill
Underworld Evolution
Little Man
Monster House
The Benchwarmers
For $19.99
50 First Date
The Big Hit
House of Flying Dagger
THe Fifth Element
Hitch
A Knight's Tale
Into the Blue
Memento
Stealth
XXX
Black Hawk Down
Tears of the Sun*
SWAT
Resident Evil: Apocalypse

3/6/07
50% Off @ Amazon
47 Titles Including:
Alien vs Predator
The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
Resident Evil - Apocalypse
50 First Dates
Kingdom Of Heaven
Memento
Speed
Fifth Element
Entrapment
Phone
Behind Enemy Lines
Chain Reaction
The Marine
Hitch
One Last Thing



7/6/07 – 7/10/07
2/$25 @ Fry’s
Curse of the Golden Flower
Black Hawk Down
House of Flying Daggers
Hellboy
Layer Cake
Kung Fu Hustle
Resident Evil: Apocalypse
Tears of the Sun
Identity
Stealth
Into the Blue
XXX
Big Fish
Memento
Donnie Brasco
Closer
Revenge
Hitch
Seven Years in Tibet
Cruel Intentions
Blazing Saddles
Full Metal Jacket
Unforgiven

10/01/07 – 10/20/07
BOGO @ FYE
Pirates of the Caribbean 1+2
Prestige
Apocalypto
Wild Hogs
Reign of Fire
Bridge to Terabithia
Déjà vu
GI Jane
Glory Road
Goal
Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back
King Arthur
The Queen
The Wild
Annapolis
The Lookout
Brothers Grimm
Casanova
The Great Raid

10/15 – 10/21
$9.99 @ Fry’s
Bram Stoker's Dracula
Fifth Element
Replacement Killers
A Few Good Men
Memoirs of a Geisha
Underworld
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
House of Flying Daggers
Hitch
Immortal Beloved
King Fu Hustle
Resident Evil: Apocalypse
Tears of the Sun
Layer Cake
Curse of the Golden Flower
Donnie Brasco
Blackjawk Down
Hellboy
Wild Things
The Patriot

10/15/07 – 10/22/07
BOGO @ Deepdiscountdvd.com
Disney titles including:
Annapolis
Apocalypto
Bridge to Terabithia
Chicago
Chicken Little
Déjà vu
…and many more

10/15 – 10/21
BOGO @ Circuit City
INCLUDES:
Black Hawk Down
Finding Neverland
G.I. Jane
Haunted Mansion
House of Flying Daggers
Into the Blue
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
King Arthur
Knights Tale, A
Kung Fu Hustle
Layer Cake
Memento
Remember the Titans
Resident Evil: Apocalypse
Stealth
Tears of the Sun
Annapolis
Apocalypto
Bridge to Terabithia
Brothers Grimm
Casanova
Casino Royale
Chicago
Chicken Little
Click
Dark Water
Deja Vu
Dinosaur
Eight Below
Enemy of the State
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Gone in 60 Seconds
Great Raid, The
Guardian, The
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Invincible
Ladder 49
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Pirates of the Carribean: Curse of the Black Pearl
Pirates of the Carribean: Dead Man's Chest
Prestige, The
Primevil
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Ultraviolet
Underworld Evolution
Wild Hogs
Wild, The

10/15 – 10/21
50% Off @ Best Buy
Invincible
Chicken Little
Wild Hogs
Eight Below
POTC 1 and 2
Gone in 60 Seconds
The Lookout
Pearl Harbor
Apocolypto
Deja Vu
Guardian
The Prestige
Enemy of the State

10/15 – 10/21
BOGO @ Amazon.com
Enemy of the State
The Queen
The Lookout
Pearl Harbor
Wild Hogs
Reign of Fire
Dark Water
Primeval
Dinosaur
The Wild
Eight Below
POTC: DMC
POTC: BP
Invincible
POTC: DMC
POTC: BP
…and more

10/15 – 10/21
BOGO @ TARGET
Wild Hogs
Apocalypto
Wild Hogs
Pirates 1 & 2
…and many more

11/9 – 11/15
BOGO @ Futureshop
20 Disney titles
Includes:
Ladder 49
Apocolypto
Déjà vu
Pirates 1&2
The Prestige
…and more

11/11/07
BOGO @ Fry’s
20 Disney titles
Includes:
Apocalypto
Deju Vu
Pirates of the Caribbean (both volumes)
The Prestige
Wild Hogs
…and many more

11/11/07
BOGO @ Amazon
72 Sony titles (including Casino Royale, Rocky Balboa)
40 Disney titles (including Apocalypto, The Prestige, Pirates 1 & 2)

11/15/07
BOGO + $10 Off @ FYE
40 Disney titles (including Chicago, Brothers Grimm, Apocalypto)

11/16 - 11/25/07
55% Off @ Fry’s
FOX titles
Day After Tomorrow
28 Weeks Later
Kingdom Of Heaven
28 Days Later
Night At the Museum
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Alien vs. Predator
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Eragon
Fantastic 4
Transporter
Transporter 2
Flyboys
Mr. Brooks
From Hell
Hills Have Eyes 2
(All $13.98 each)

11/16/07
$9.99 @ Fry’s
Bram Stoker's Dracula
Hollow Man
The Fifth Element (REMASTERED)
The Replacement Killers
A Few Good Men
Underworld
Memoirs Of A Geisha
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
The Patriot
Wild Things
Hellboy
Donnie Brasco
Curse Of The Golden Flower
Layer Cake
Tears Of The Sun
Black Hawk Down
Resident Evil: Apocolypse
The House Of Flying Daggers
Kung Fu Hustle
Stealth

11/19/07
55% Off @ Amazon

12/16
BOGO @ Best Buy
BOGO @ amazon

12/26
Up to 50% Off Blu-Ray
on many titles including
Ratatouille, Cars, Pirates

1/1/08 BOGO@amazon
96 Fox & Warner titles
including Harry Potters,
Die Hards, 300, 28 Weeks Later
__________________

[Ron-P]

Damn, I had no idea, of course, I didn't get into Blu until about close to a year after it streeted so I missed most of those. You are right though, that's a lot more then there are now.

But to get a format to survive, there can be only one. Having two competing formats never bods well with the average consumer. Maybe there are some great deals while there both around but it doesn't last long and neither will two formats. People don't want two machines and their movies split between two formats, it doesn't work.

Either way, it doesn't matter (to me) as it's the only format I buy now, even if I pay $30 a disc, I haven't bought or watched an SD-DVD for probably close to a year now. It's just too painful to watch and listen to.

[Keiko]

Ron...Just curious, but which BR player do you have? I saw last night that amazon has
80gb PS3's for 399.00. I'm debating if I should pull the trigger on one of those or not.
That's not to bad of a price really to get my feet wet.

[Ron-P]

I have the 40g PS3 and a Samsung BD-P1000. You'll be very, very, hard pressed to find a better Blu-ray player then the PS3, for price and performance it's unbeatable. That's also a great price on the 80 as I paid that for my 40.

[grif32]

Damn, I had no idea, of course, I didn't get into Blu until about close to a year after it streeted so I missed most of those. You are right though, that's a lot more then there are now.

But to get a format to survive, there can be only one. Having two competing formats never bods well with the average consumer. Maybe there are some great deals while there both around but it doesn't last long and neither will two formats. People don't want two machines and their movies split between two formats, it doesn't work.

Either way, it doesn't matter (to me) as it's the only format I buy now, even if I pay $30 a disc, I haven't bought or watched an SD-DVD for probably close to a year now. It's just too painful to watch and listen to.

LOL yeah not to many people "Recall that many bogo's" all due to HD DVD. If you remember EVERY big release for HD DVD, BR countered with Bogo's.

Thats why we needed the War but at the sametime we didnt need it because I think it hurt BR being adopted quickly.

Watching SD DVD's is soooooooo painful now. I try and not watch them but every now and then I have to..

I have over 100 BR's thanks to the Bogo's but I refuse to pay $30.00/disk. Thats why I joined netflix for $16.99 a month cant beat it. Prices NEED to come down fast for the "Average Joe" to join us.

[Ron-P]

I just joined Netflix about 2 weeks ago, so I'm sure my purchases will drop off a bit. But I still like to own my movies and take as much advantage of Amazons deals when they have'em as they are better then going to BB or CC, usually.

I will say the reason I don't mind spending $30 on a blu-ray is that I rarely go see movies in the theater because for the 3 of us to go, it costs more to do that then to just buy the movie and own it.

[Keiko]

I have the 40g PS3 and a Samsung BD-P1000. You'll be very, very, hard pressed to find a better Blu-ray player then the PS3, for price and performance it's unbeatable. That's also a great price on the 80 as I paid that for my 40.

What I don't get is that the 40gig versions are 500.00 plus.

http://www.amazon.com/Playstation-3-40GB/dp/B000XGJH1O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1220541977&sr=1-2

Reason I'm debating it is that my receiver doesn't have HDMI inputs. Only analog, optical and coax. So I wouldn't be able to take advantage of the HD audio for movies. I really don't want to upgrade because for music I'm pleased with the system.

[cheddar]

What I don't get is that the 40gig versions are 500.00 plus.

http://www.amazon.com/Playstation-3-40GB/dp/B000XGJH1O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1220541977&sr=1-2



The higher prices are from 3rd party vendors on amazon. They are obviously out of stock and aren't selling them at retail.

[Keiko]

The higher prices are from 3rd party vendors on amazon. They are obviously out of stock and aren't selling them at retail.

Got ya cheddar...Hmmmm, reading more I wasn't aware that these arn't backwards compatible according to some reviewers. The description says you can play the PS2/PS games. :confused:

[cheddar]

Got ya cheddar...Hmmmm, reading more I wasn't aware that these arn't backwards compatible according to some reviewers. The description says you can play the PS2/PS games. :confused:

Yes, the 40gig is not backwards compatible. They are supposedly coming out with a new 80gig that's supposed to replace the 40gig and I'm not sure if they will keep the compatibility. But previous 80gig versions were compatible with over 2000 older games. And if you were lucky enough to get the 60gig, it was near 100% compatible because they put the guts of a ps2 in the console. They've since taken part of the hardware out of the 80gig to control costs, using software to make up the difference. And they completely removed all the ps2 hardware from the 40gig.

[cheddar]

Ron-P is actually a little more right than many of you are giving him credit for. It's DVD disk sales that really have the industry worried as they have been falling off or flat in recent years. And blu-ray is actually the hope of studios as they try and reinvigorate sales:

http://login.vnuemedia.com/hr/login/login_subscribe.jsp?id=JwgPPVfVmcksd4TtPuM3gvMrl1h uoS1n41WGBMtipDBHyP416NfmcYCfx50GCg1dRCjBThaZau8c% 0Aii75%2FtsbHIxGjkdrnDQOslHfbuVVWsNcA0l00S7x8ww%2B JvO8QjqZjq8kcNPDs0glnmyz2I8MIdwT%0AS1Wlvcvv2GXBbIf xofJ1OoZlRvl0KLCaDWz6ywZj0H%2BZLhORD7EUymF77NTUBPi 95wE7nhpmMR%2Bl%0ALSGRrW6eTO8FqsDlX51sRK1S4DnSDRDA z%2FlAgu5JRpPosk0nQLv4mYlLJJ0Af33%2F0%2BrEs3w%2B%2 FFeh%0AT6mEI0fI%2FjXo1%2BZxgJ%2FHnQYKDV1szQkldQ3E2 k7snTVhlKaf4eGI0TPRmHxHjYkVErAJMxavIBHe%0AdrtW


Consumer spending on DVDs and Blu-ray Discs in the first three months of this year was up about 1% from the first three months of 2007, coming in at $5.51 billion compared with $5.46 billion in the first quarter of last year, according to Home Media Magazine market research estimates based on studio and retail data. The nascent Blu-ray Disc saved the day for the sellthrough business, per Nielsen VideoScan sales data, with DVD unit sales in the first quarter down 1.2% from the first quarter of 2007 but Blu-ray Disc sales up a whopping 351%.


That's not to say that DVD sales still aren't the major portion of total sales or that the 351% isn't an increase off of very low numbers last year. But it's also not the case that DVD sales are completely healthy with blu-ray dropping off as some are trying to say. Even with unit sales declining 1.2% for dvd, consumer spending rose 1% in the first quarter thanks to blu-ray sales kicking in.

And on Amazon right now here are some great under 20 buck deals that are actually pretty regular (there are more, but I got tired typing them in). Warner is actually toying with the idea of bringing their average prices down to increase sales. Just look at how low Batman Begins and Legend have been pretty continuously on amazon for under $20. The difference between these prices and the bogos is that the bogos only lasted as long as they needed to knock off hd-dvd new releases. These new prices are found just by avoiding retailers like best buy and circuit city. And even new releases like transformers are nowhere near the $30 a pop prices people usually quote as outrageous. Be patient for a sale, and even these regularly drop lower. I'd look for many many deals on blu-ray hardware and software as we get closer to Christmas. The real benefits of economy of scale and lack of a format war will really kick in not with short time bogos, but with average everyday prices falling as more hardware and software product hits the shelves (real competition, not a messy, confusing format war):

3:10 to Yuma $18.95
X-Men: The Last Stand $18.95
Cloverfield $19.95
Casino Royal $19.95
Underworld movies $19.95 each
Open Season $19.95
5th Element $14.95
Men in Black $14.95
Black Hawk Down $14.95
Hellboy $14.95
Patriot $14.95
I am Legend $18.95
Road Warrior $14.95
No Country for Old Men $19.95
Pirates of the Carribean movies 2 and 3 $19.95 each
National Treasure 2 $19.95
Prestige $19.95
Cars, The Rat movie $20.99
300 $20.95
Batman Begins $17.95
Transformers $24.95
2001: Space Odyssey $17.95
Polar Express $17.95
50 First Dates $17.95
Hunt for Red October $18.95
Fantastic Four $18.95
Unforgiven $18.95
U-571 $19.95
Mummy movies $19.95 each
Harry Potter movies $19.95 each
Tom Clancy movies $19.95 each
Shrek the Third $19.95
Cast Away $19.95
28 Days Later $19.95
Edward Scissorhands $19.95
Flags of our Fathers $19.95
Babel $19.95
Blades of Glory $19.95

[grif32]

Ron-P is actually a little more right than many of you are giving him credit for. It's DVD disk sales that really have the industry worried as they have been falling off or flat in recent years. And blu-ray is actually the hope of studios as they try and reinvigorate sales:

http://login.vnuemedia.com/hr/login/login_subscribe.jsp?id=JwgPPVfVmcksd4TtPuM3gvMrl1h uoS1n41WGBMtipDBHyP416NfmcYCfx50GCg1dRCjBThaZau8c% 0Aii75%2FtsbHIxGjkdrnDQOslHfbuVVWsNcA0l00S7x8ww%2B JvO8QjqZjq8kcNPDs0glnmyz2I8MIdwT%0AS1Wlvcvv2GXBbIf xofJ1OoZlRvl0KLCaDWz6ywZj0H%2BZLhORD7EUymF77NTUBPi 95wE7nhpmMR%2Bl%0ALSGRrW6eTO8FqsDlX51sRK1S4DnSDRDA z%2FlAgu5JRpPosk0nQLv4mYlLJJ0Af33%2F0%2BrEs3w%2B%2 FFeh%0AT6mEI0fI%2FjXo1%2BZxgJ%2FHnQYKDV1szQkldQ3E2 k7snTVhlKaf4eGI0TPRmHxHjYkVErAJMxavIBHe%0AdrtW



That's not to say that DVD sales still aren't the major portion of total sales or that the 351% isn't an increase off of very low numbers last year. But it's also not the case that DVD sales are completely healthy with blu-ray dropping off as some are trying to say. Even with unit sales declining 1.2% for dvd, consumer spending rose 1% in the first quarter thanks to blu-ray sales kicking in.

And on Amazon right now here are some great under 20 buck deals that are actually pretty regular (there are more, but I got tired typing them in). Warner is actually toying with the idea of bringing their average prices down to increase sales. Just look at how low Batman Begins and Legend have been pretty continuously on amazon for under $20. The difference between these prices and the bogos is that the bogos only lasted as long as they needed to knock off hd-dvd new releases. These new prices are found just by avoiding retailers like best buy and circuit city. And even new releases like transformers are nowhere near the $30 a pop prices people usually quote as outrageous. Be patient for a sale, and even these regularly drop lower. I'd look for many many deals on blu-ray hardware and software as we get closer to Christmas. The real benefits of economy of scale and lack of a format war will really kick in not with short time bogos, but with average everyday prices falling as more hardware and software product hits the shelves (real competition, not a messy, confusing format war):

3:10 to Yuma $18.95
X-Men: The Last Stand $18.95
Cloverfield $19.95
Casino Royal $19.95
Underworld movies $19.95 each
Open Season $19.95
5th Element $14.95
Men in Black $14.95
Black Hawk Down $14.95
Hellboy $14.95
Patriot $14.95
I am Legend $18.95
Road Warrior $14.95
No Country for Old Men $19.95
Pirates of the Carribean movies 2 and 3 $19.95 each
National Treasure 2 $19.95
Prestige $19.95
Cars, The Rat movie $20.99
300 $20.95
Batman Begins $17.95
Transformers $24.95
2001: Space Odyssey $17.95
Polar Express $17.95
50 First Dates $17.95
Hunt for Red October $18.95
Fantastic Four $18.95
Unforgiven $18.95
U-571 $19.95
Mummy movies $19.95 each
Harry Potter movies $19.95 each
Tom Clancy movies $19.95 each
Shrek the Third $19.95
Cast Away $19.95
28 Days Later $19.95
Edward Scissorhands $19.95
Flags of our Fathers $19.95
Babel $19.95
Blades of Glory $19.95

Only problem with the above list as I stated probably half if not more have been included in Bogo's from Amazon or cheaper $9.99 from fry's or other deals so those prices are really not that good for most of us that have been in the game awhile but good for those new to it.

Pirates were Bogo at TRU's. And with the (2) $10.00 off coupon and a $5.00 off coupon I picked up two POTC 3's for less then $1.00. They were $24.95 plus tax ea with BOGO.

See those were deals that we do not see anymore.

Heck I picked up all Harry Potters on BR in the Bogo. Plus grabbed #5 all for less then $60.00 shipped. Lets $12/movie. 28 Days later, Bable flags of our fathres, hellboy, 3:10 to yuma just to name a few.

Also BR sales should be up 350% since alot of HD DVD fanboys came over and thats all they can enjoy now. If it wasnt up that high from last year then Br might as well forget it.

Warner is toying with bringing thier old titles out for around $15.95 otherwise they would probably just sit on the shelves.

Transfomers is $24.95 or $27.95 wit tax so its pretty close to $30.00

Fox is the biggest problem with disc around $30 and up. Most of us were spoiled with all those Bogo's I guess is the problem.

[cheddar]

Only problem with the above list as I stated probably half if not more have been included in Bogo's from Amazon or cheaper $9.99 from fry's or other deals so those prices are really not that good for most of us that have been in the game awhile but good for those new to it.


I think you're sort of missing the point I was making. These aren't short term bogo deals. They're pretty much what you can get these titles for everyday on Amazon. That means you don't have to watch the deal sites or scramble to buy them before they run out. (Have you ever tried to get a cheap blu-ray deal at a retail Fry's? The popular titles sell out very quickly and unless you're early, you're usually picking over the less popular left overs.) I have no doubt that even the up coming Christmas sales should be much better than these. These prices are just what the current economy of scale advantages have given the market. And few people actually pay Amazon sales tax (even if they're supposed to). So including sales tax and even easily avoidable shipping costs really isn't a fair true cost statement. Most people will pay less than 25 bucks total for Transformers at Amazon.


Warner is toying with bringing thier old titles out for around $15.95 otherwise they would probably just sit on the shelves.


It's pretty established economic truth that the lower the price, the more of something you will sell. Titles are already selling, they're just trying to find the sweet spot where volume sold at a reduced profit per unit sale maximizes total profit. That's where people who keep thinking that the end of the war or no war in the first place would mean sky high prices now. In order to sell at volume, you simply can't raise prices to whatever you want. You lower prices and squeeze your margins until you reach a sweet spot where volume sold at a certain profit is highest. And as more of a product is sold, that almost always means rapidly declining prices as economies of scale make the product much cheaper to produce and you've got more room to squeeze margins even further.


Which is why this whole format war was such a waste. The format war severely reduced unit sales of both hardware and software because few people wanted to jump into HD with all the format uncertainty. This ran the real risk of both formats dying off completely and is the real reason that Warner shifted its support when it did. Sure, they can have great bogos and sales where you can get movies for a buck. Heck, they could even give the disks to you for free (oh wait, they did...). But all that cheap software and hardware doesn't mean anything if the format just dies after two years and you want to continue getting more titles for your collection.

We are probably a year or two behind where we would have been if there was no format war. Which means that economies of scale (the total advantage of having high volumes of hardware and software readily available on the market) are also just as far behind. So we got lots of temporary sales (hardware and software) while the two formats were clubbing each other over the head. But for the longer term, we probably lost out on regular Amazon prices dipping below $15 instead of $20 by now and hardware going below $150 or even $100 instead of below $200 by Christmas. Imagine if Funai put out a blu-ray player last Christmas or even at launch instead of just releasing them this year. Delayed investment from both Studios and hardware companies and low initial volume sales is what really hurt the industry and will keep prices much higher in the short term than they would be if this was the 2nd or 3rd Christmas of high volume sales for the format.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

FACT: There were better sustained deals on a greater selection of Blu Ray discs when it was competing for market share with HD DVD.

Opinion: Those deals were likely due to competition, with Sony trying to buy up all the market share and knock off HD DVD

You people can argue the opinion all day long, but fact is fact and in that matter your opinion (and mine) is irrelevant. At the end of last year and beginning of this year there were SUSTAINED deals on Blu Ray discs. Today you can find decent deals from time to time, but not even in the same ballpark as the selection we had before.

I bought over 120 BR titles from places like Amazon and Fry's for a total average of $13.37 a disc - and those were premeire titles, not Snakes on a Plane. You can't find those prices today, and if you do it's on a very limited selection for a very limited amount of time. Hell 40% off is a great deal, but you're still looking at $20 a pop for most movies, even when looking at the list of 'deals' that cheddar posted above.

I'm too laze to go back and find my threads now, but I called it when HD DVD died. I said then you kiss all the $13 Blu Ray discs goodbye, and I've been overwhelmingly correct.

I'm not on one side or the other, I want whatever gives me the best selection at the best price with the best quality. Other than the natural progression of technology, there hasn't been one single thing that's happened since the death of HD DVD (except for all the great prices on HD DVD players and movies) that's been to my benefit, as a consumer.

[cheddar]

Other than the natural progression of technology, there hasn't been one single thing that's happened since the death of HD DVD (except for all the great prices on HD DVD players and movies) that's been to my benefit, as a consumer.

Except that one format is actually starting to sell in healthy volumes and might actually survive, of course. The avalanche of titles starting to come out from both big and small studios, both A list and B movies, domestic and international is a testament to that. It wasn't too long ago that we had to wait for just the summer block busters to come out, and it all depended on which format you had if you could even get those. Now, you can get all the new releases from all the studios and an increasing number of catalog titles (some remastered to high quality) as well. Average prices continue to drop for both hardware and software, although not as fast as some would like. But you can't really argue with free. Yes, as long as HD-DVD and Blu-ray were willing to lose money and give their stuff away below cost, consumers got great deals. Can't argue with that...

[grif32]

FACT: There were better sustained deals on a greater selection of Blu Ray discs when it was competing for market share with HD DVD.

Opinion: Those deals were likely due to competition, with Sony trying to buy up all the market share and knock off HD DVD

You people can argue the opinion all day long, but fact is fact and in that matter your opinion (and mine) is irrelevant. At the end of last year and beginning of this year there were SUSTAINED deals on Blu Ray discs. Today you can find decent deals from time to time, but not even in the same ballpark as the selection we had before.

I bought over 120 BR titles from places like Amazon and Fry's for a total average of $13.37 a disc - and those were premeire titles, not Snakes on a Plane. You can't find those prices today, and if you do it's on a very limited selection for a very limited amount of time. Hell 40% off is a great deal, but you're still looking at $20 a pop for most movies, even when looking at the list of 'deals' that cheddar posted above.

I'm too laze to go back and find my threads now, but I called it when HD DVD died. I said then you kiss all the $13 Blu Ray discs goodbye, and I've been overwhelmingly correct.

I'm not on one side or the other, I want whatever gives me the best selection at the best price with the best quality. Other than the natural progression of technology, there hasn't been one single thing that's happened since the death of HD DVD (except for all the great prices on HD DVD players and movies) that's been to my benefit, as a consumer.

My point I have been trying to make. People think they are getting deals with $20.00 BR's when in fact they are not since most were in Bogo's and were around $12.00 a movie. Thats a deal.

[cheddar]

People think they are getting deals with $20.00 BR's when in fact they are not

Still missing the point. $15-$19 everyday amazon prices for disks like batman begins, i am legend, and black hawk down are reasonable prices and a welcome trend, not a super deal. When these disks actually go on sale, they'll be even less. I'm not saying that the bogos weren't great opportunities to get movies for cheap. I've built a big collection by waiting for hd-dvd to release big movies and picking up handfuls of cheap deals on bogos each time. But it's kind of like saying that you won't shop for deals on a new house, cause houses were so cheap in 1997. HD-DVD and Blu-ray were locked in a deathmatch and prices came down to the point that both almost didn't survive. Good situation for the consumer and deals. Agreed. But you're living in the past if you think that companies should maintain money losing profit margins just because some people want a free lunch. Better to have a healthy industry in general so that even more hd movies and players are released so that general average retail prices will come down faster.

[grif32]

Still missing the point. $15-$19 everyday amazon prices for disks like batman begins, i am legend, and black hawk down are reasonable prices and a welcome trend, not a super deal. When these disks actually go on sale, they'll be even less. I'm not saying that the bogos weren't great opportunities to get movies for cheap. I've built a big collection by waiting for hd-dvd to release big movies and picking up handfuls of cheap deals on bogos each time. But it's kind of like saying that you won't shop for deals on a new house, cause houses were so cheap in 1997. HD-DVD and Blu-ray were locked in a deathmatch and prices came down to the point that both almost didn't survive. Good situation for the consumer and deals. Agreed. But you're living in the past if you think that companies should maintain money losing profit margins just because some people want a free lunch. Better to have a healthy industry in general so that even more hd movies and players are released so that general average retail prices will come down faster.

Well companies will HAVE to lose profit margin in order for BR to be sucessful.

Sony is with the PS3 thats the ONLY reason BR is still alive.

Average Joe will not pay the prices of BR disk or players today. I want BR to keep trucking but getting worried with the current pricing. Thats all.

[cheddar]

I think we're already seeing prices drop. There should be some good discounting during Christmas as both studios and hardware makers have a motivation to make this a blu-ray holiday season. If they're smart and jump start volume sales with great black friday deals and such, the format should be just fine. There are so many hardware makers coming out with new product and so many software titles releasing compared with last year, I'm not too worried about there being an end to good discounts because of competition. Just clearancing last year's products should generate some great deals...but if they don't, I can see how things might play out the way you fear they might...

[grif32]

I think we're already seeing prices drop. There should be some good discounting during Christmas as both studios and hardware makers have a motivation to make this a blu-ray holiday season. If they're smart and jump start volume sales with great black friday deals and such, the format should be just fine. There are so many hardware makers coming out with new product and so many software titles releasing compared with last year, I'm not too worried about there being an end to good discounts because of competition. Just clearancing last year's products should generate some great deals...but if they don't, I can see how things might play out the way you fear they might...

Yeah I hope for a hug xmas push..

Some of those titles you listed above for under $20.00 are now $13.99 for fyr's deal

Frys $13.99 Friday Sale [September 5 - September 9, 2008]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

$13.99

Starship Trooper
The Fifth Element
Men In Black
Gattaca
Exorcism of Emily Rose
House of Flying Dagger
Black Hawk Down
Underworld
Hellboy
I Know What You Did Last Summer
Kung Fu Hustle
Monty Python's Life of Brian
The Adventures of Baron Munchausen
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
XXX: State of the Reunion
The Patriot
Urban Legend
The 6th Day
Maximum Risk
Into The Blue
Anger Management