I need some advice on a DAC

[mmadden28]

Sorry this post has lots of questions but they're all related... :o

OK, I made an offer about a week ago, for an Adcom GDA-600 DAC on audiogon, it was accepted. went though the process, prices, shipping fees accepted, etc. Sent my check last night (no paypal) (Seller has 100% rating). Then I got an email today from the seller apologizing that they apparently made an error and accidentally double sold it. :eek:
Guess who is not getting it? :(

Is that possible via the Gon? To double sell with that semi automated flow process thing they have? This would've been my first gon purchase so I am not very familiar with the process.

Needless to say I am very disappointed- :( I was looking forward to it and perhaps updating it, etc. It was $170 shipped.
There is another avail (diff seller) for $40 more-essentially same cond. (8/10). Not sure if I should jump on it, or do they pop up often enough to be patient?

Well anyway, back to the purpose of this thread--I'm rethinking if I really need this component. So I need some advice on what it or something similar will really do for me. I woudl expect to use it in my 2 ch rig.

The more I read the more I learn that this model of DAC is over 15 years old and has a 20 bit DAC. Now most DACs today, even on lower end equipment is 24 bit. Granted there are many different types of DACs and some are far superior to others, but is a 20 bit DAC still a force to be reckoned with in this day, or is it only so because of the low price that it can be had for?

I understand that the source is very important in the audio cahin and all but...How does an older 20 bit DAC hold up against, lets say the DAC in the Onkyo 805? The Pio DV-48AV Universal player? The Squeezebox Duet? Or perhaps a higher end soundcard in a PC?

I'm guessing that it will do nothing for SACD since SACD will output either HDMI or analog only. So no way to get it in to the DAC. Right?

What areas of my system will the outboard DAC improve?
Will a DAC do anything for an Ipod?

Or is the Adcom DAC highly desired because of modding potential?
Its was due to recent threads in this board that I got hot on the GDA-600 to begin with so I have no other knowledge of its potential.

What is the max 'good value' for a decent condition GDA-600? When do you hit the point of diminished returns?

Or should I be looking at somethign more current, even if more $$$? Or would I only see minimal improvement? Or night and day? Most of what I've seen out there for a DAC are muy expensivo.

Or perhaps I should just invest in some other component with better improvement potential??

Thanks

[ben62670]

GDA-600 can be had for $150 if you are patient. $170 isn't bad. To me the number specs are not as important as the analog build. The older Adcom's were built with quality in mind. I am not saying they used the very best components, but they did use some real nice stuff. Modding is fun if you can do it comfortably. After mods, and the unit price you can do just as well if not better if you shop around. I haven't had much DAC experience. Take your time and look around. If you just want a DAC for CD playback you may want to invest in a good player. It will do nothing for SACD. As for receivers. They are mass produced for tons of features. A separate DAC can help. Myself I would look for a decent SACD/redbook player. But that is me. The reason I have a DAC is I have kids, and a changer just makes life much easier.
Ben

[danger boy]

is a 20 bit DAC still a force to be reckoned with in this day?

Sorry I wouldn't know.. i'm still stuck in 18 bits. :p

seriously... a DAC can make a big difference.. or else so many people on here wouldn't have them in their systems. Of course it's a debate how good of a player you have to have to go along with that DAC to make a difference..

some people claim a DAC made a $99 CD player sound like a much more expensive one.. that of course was the DAC.. it's still a $99 player.. now you just have a $$$ DAC doing the conversion from digital to analog. :D

I would say at the price point you're looking at.. go for it. You'll always wonder "what if" otherwise. good luck. let us know how she turns out.

[ben62670]

We did a cheap sony 200 disc with the Adcom GDA-700 vs a Jolida tubed player. The Jolida was better for jazz, and classical, but the cdp with the DAC was more dynamic IMHO. Both setups had their strong points.
Ben

[PolkClyde]

Ben What do you think about Audio Alchemy DAC with HDCD. I have both also the DTI PRO

[ben62670]

Ben What do you think about Audio Alchemy DAC with HDCD. I have both also the DTI PRO

When it comes to DACs I know that mine helped. I know you can research numbers, but numbers lie. Hopefully someone with ears you can trust chimes in. The real bad thing about this hobby is your taste may differ from someone else's. Buy used, and sell if you don't like it is the best advice I can give.
Ben

[Early B.]

IMO, I'd suggest initially focusing on upgrading the CDP and possibly performing some minor mods on it. Later on, you can experiment with DACs. I say this for two reasons:

1. Establish a strong core foundation for your system. Only then should you consider DACs, DIPs, transports, etc. Otherwise, you won't know the value of a DAC if you add one to your system. Many of today's CDPs have excellent DACs. A separate DAC, especially and older model under $500, may not necessarily perform better than a DAC in a newer model $500 CDP.

2. A good DAC can be just as costly as a good CDP.

If you're gonna do it, do it right. Don't start out with a cheap DAC for your main rig. If so, you'll likely get into the endless upgrade cycle and waste money.

[george daniel]

^^^^^^^^^^^What Brad said^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just start off with as good a source as you can afford,,,,it has been said many times before,,and IMHO, it's always overlooked,,,, source,source,and source,,the money you spend on it,, will result in hundreds,maybe thousands saved in the constant uprgrade orgies.I've had the Adcom GDA 600,,Bel Canto,sold em,,and bought the Ah! CD player,,YMMV.

Good luck :)

[Early B.]

... it's always overlooked,,,, source,source,and source,,the money you spend on it,, will result in hundreds,maybe thousands saved in the constant uprgrade orgies.

This is so true. I've upgraded almost everything in my system several times over in the past three or four years except my modded CDP.

I use a passive preamp. Some who have tried passive pre's before didn't tlike them because they sounded thin. I believe the problem was the source. If a passive pre is doing its job, how can you blame the sound on something that's not supposed to make any sound at all? Perhaps the passive pre is revealing the weaknesses in the system.


George -- have you checked out Gateway Sound in Tucker yet? Great gear and the owner is pretty cool. They have a $6,000 CD player on display (I won't mention the brand). I talked myself out of taking my $500 CDP over there and comparing it to see what an additional $5,500 would buy me in terms of sound quality.

[george daniel]

Thanks for the heads up Brad,, nope,,have not been there yet,,I'm waiting until March ,,,my FINAL upgrade,, which will be a source and possibly a pre(Joule),, then,,I'm done,a few tweaks aside so to speak. I'm happy with the Plats and Tylers,,and somewhat like you,,I'm almost "there",, now if I win the amps that Mr. Carver is bringing to Carverfest,, well that would be just "gravy". All for now,, gotta' finish packing and get on the road,,or as Tommy Boy would say,,roooaaadd. :)

[mmadden28]

All good advice thus far-Thanks all. :cool:
Hopefully another newb will find some value in this thread as well.

IMO, I'd suggest initially focusing on upgrading the CDP and possibly performing some minor mods on it. Later on, you can experiment with DACs.


So if I understand correctly, a good DAC can make a cheaper CDP (transport?) better, but more importantly the better the source to begin with, the less need for an outboard DAC?? About right?

Last night, while listening, I could really hear the spinning CD noise from the CDP. At lower volumes it was actually annoying. I told myself ages ago, that I would never spend any buku bucks on a CD Player of all things, but is one of the winning qualities of a good CDP lower noise from the unit itself?


...
1. Establish a strong core foundation for your system....Otherwise, you won't know the value of a DAC if you add one to your system.


I hear ya, perhaps I'm rushing things a bit. :o

So how about some good mod-able CDP suggestions-so I can keep my eye out--Budget=TBD. SACD capability is preferred.

[fbm211]

You mentioned audiogoN.Browse the CDP section and get a good marantz that supports SACD.Whats your budget??And there is an adcom GDA-600 on ebay right now with a buy it now for 220.00.Thats a little to high but it may go for less.Doesnt hurt to place a bid for say 170.00.(I have one for my GCD-575 and it improved SQ a little.)

[Early B.]

So if I understand correctly, a good DAC can make a cheaper CDP (transport?) better, but more importantly the better the source to begin with, the less need for an outboard DAC?? About right?

Last night, while listening, I could really hear the spinning CD noise from the CDP. At lower volumes it was actually annoying. I told myself ages ago, that I would never spend any buku bucks on a CD Player of all things, but is one of the winning qualities of a good CDP lower noise from the unit itself.

OK, so even if you got a DAC, it wouldn't resolve this issue. You definitely need another CDP anyway, so you might as well buy a good one.

[steveinaz]

Spend the $975, get a Benchmark and be done with it. This company is fanatical about absolute fidelity and a dead quiet background.

[lakesailor]

A good DAC can work wonders for your system. Good DAC’s are more about design topology than technology absolute. We recently put a 10 year old Theta Digital DAC that was close to $3K up against a new PS Audio Digital Link 3 ($1K)

The PS Audio is generally well regarded, not to the same extent as the Benchmark; however is still good. All three of us agreed that the Theta Digital DAC; in spite of it’s age was the hands down the best sounding unit.

I would not be afraid to try the Adcom GDA 600; especially for the money it typically sells for. It was a reasonably well regarded model when new and if I recall correctly I think the GDA 600 also was HDCD compatible as well; just in case you happen to come across any HDCD’s.

As for your Ipod question; to the best of my knowledge only Wadia has a docking station that is capable of bypassing the Ipod’s internal dac and outputting pure digital bitstream that a DAC can take advantage of. I have a Wadia on order and am keen to try it out on my Theta Digital DAC to see how it sounds.

[mmadden28]

^^^
Thanks for the info...:)

[fbm211]

The GDA-600 doesnt support HDCD but the GDA-700 does.I have the 600 and it is a great dac.You can usually get one for 150.00--200.00.Well worth the investment.

[JoeLR]

A good DAC can work wonders for your system. Good DAC’s are more about design topology than technology absolute. We recently put a 10 year old Theta Digital DAC that was close to $3K up against a new PS Audio Digital Link 3 ($1K)

The PS Audio is generally well regarded, not to the same extent as the Benchmark; however is still good. All three of us agreed that the Theta Digital DAC; in spite of it’s age was the hands down the best sounding unit.

I would not be afraid to try the Adcom GDA 600; especially for the money it typically sells for. It was a reasonably well regarded model when new and if I recall correctly I think the GDA 600 also was HDCD compatible as well; just in case you happen to come across any HDCD’s.

As for your Ipod question; to the best of my knowledge only Wadia has a docking station that is capable of bypassing the Ipod’s internal dac and outputting pure digital bitstream that a DAC can take advantage of. I have a Wadia on order and am keen to try it out on my Theta Digital DAC to see how it sounds.

If possible, try to listen to a modded PS Audio DL III. I have a Stage 3 modded DL III (bought directly from Cullen Circuits after speaking w/ Rick Cullen several times) and it is noticeably "better" than stock. Dead quiet, great dynamics, very tight & fast bass.... For ~$1,600, the modded DL III is tough to beat, IMO.

[lakesailor]

[QUOTE=fbm211;919016]The GDA-600 doesnt support HDCD but the GDA-700 does.I have the 600 and it is a great dac.You can usually get one for 150.00--200.00.Well worth the investment.[/QUOTE


My apologies. FBM211 is indeed correct. I recall that one model came out later on with HDCD capability; however I mistook the Adcom model number. The GDA700 did indeed succeed the GDA600 and also offered HDCD as well. Apologize again for the error. My memory is starting to get fuzzy as I get older….

[lakesailor]

If possible, try to listen to a modded PS Audio DL III. I have a Stage 3 modded DL III (bought directly from Cullen Circuits after speaking w/ Rick Cullen several times) and it is noticeably "better" than stock. Dead quiet, great dynamics, very tight & fast bass.... For ~$1,600, the modded DL III is tough to beat, IMO.


I think that is good advice. I have heard very good things about the mods. available for the PS DLIII Even OEM I think you will enjoy a good DAC. Best of luck