RTIA3 vs RTI4 death match coming soon!

[Erik Tracy]

I pulled the trigger on a good deal for a pair of RTIA3s.

I'll do a 'death match' comparison in my rig with the current RTI4s I've got as mains. :D

Let the games begin!

[Ron Temple]

Middle weight vs welter weight. I know which will win ;).

[leroyjr1]

The rti a3' s are the Packers and the rti 4's are the cowboys

[ben62670]

LSi's are the Pats:p

[croutons]

Can my old Panasonic bookshelfs be the dolphins? Or does someone have a worse speaker?

[leroyjr1]

can my old panasonic bookshelfs be the dolphins? Or does someone have a worse speaker?


Bose

[Norm Apter]

I pulled the trigger on a good deal for a pair of RTIA3s.

I'll do a 'death match' comparison in my rig with the current RTI4s I've got as mains. :D

Let the games begin!

Erik, I can't wait to hear about your impressions. Please be as detailed as possible in your comparison.

I've heard a pair of RTi4s and Rti6s in a Crutchfield showroom. That was about 9 months ago, when the Rti A series was just being released to retailers and thus haven't had a chance to listen to the latter.

I more or less finished putting together my 2 channel system a few months ago, and I will next be looking toward building a (separate) Home Theatre system (different room). Thus, I've had my eye on both of these series and am really interested to see how they compare.

[Erik Tracy]

Erik, I can't wait to hear about your impressions. Please be as detailed as possible in your comparison.

I've heard a pair of RTi4s and Rti6s in a Crutchfield showroom. That was about 9 months ago, when the Rti A series was just being released to retailers and thus haven't had a chance to listen to the latter.

I more or less finished putting together my 2 channel system a few months ago, and I will next be looking toward building a (separate) Home Theatre system (different room). Thus, I've had my eye on both of these series and am really interested to see how they compare.

Roger that.

I'm an engineer by trade so I'll be as detailed...and objective as I can be.

I don't have test equipment, but I'll note out the configs and settings for both and the sources used.

Listening impressions will however be subjective and I don't claim to have 'golden ears'...yet... :D

[croutons]

Bose

You can be the Bengals, since Bose are just a bunch of swindlers and crooks.

[Erik Tracy]

Fed Ex attempted a delivery today for the RTIA3s.

Signature required... grrrr

I'll work a deal with my neighbor for watching out for these and I'll go for the signature release.

One step closer to the 'death match'...:p

[leroyjr1]

At least they didn't do like UPS did and put my $1500 projector outside my front door where someone could just walk by and take it.

[Erik Tracy]

Well,
The RTIA3s arrived today!

Both in good condition - like new - I'd never suspect they were categorized as "refurbished".

The cabinet shape is odd - I'll have to get used to it.

The front of the speaker looks pretty darn cool.

I did weigh them with a digital scale I have - spot on to the web page at 16lbs on the dot with the grill on.

I did hold one up next to my RTI4 that I have mounted on my B-Tech BT-77 mounts - and the RTIA3 is substantially larger.

It's getting late for me now - so more comparisons tomorrow.

Full on sound comparison will be for the weekend!

Stay tuned - this will be fun....

[leroyjr1]

Time for a second pair.:D

[Norm Apter]

Well,
The RTIA3s arrived today!

Both in good condition - like new - I'd never suspect they were categorized as "refurbished".

The cabinet shape is odd - I'll have to get used to it.

The front of the speaker looks pretty darn cool.

I did weigh them with a digital scale I have - spot on to the web page at 16lbs on the dot with the grill on.

I did hold one up next to my RTI4 that I have mounted on my B-Tech BT-77 mounts - and the RTIA3 is substantially larger.

It's getting late for me now - so more comparisons tomorrow.

Full on sound comparison will be for the weekend!

Stay tuned - this will be fun....

Good to hear that they arrived intact.

A few preliminary questions before you get into the sonic comparisons.

You mentioned that you bought them refurbished but that they look "like new." Were these bought from Polk Direct (the Polk eBay store)? If so, did you bid on them or purchase via "buy it now" route?

I've been thinking about this route, especially if one can save some money off the retail price and they arrive in good shape.

Finally, did you get black or cherry? I assume you matched them to the color of your Rti 4s.

[Erik Tracy]

Good to hear that they arrived intact.

A few preliminary questions before you get into the sonic comparisons.

You mentioned that you bought them refurbished but that they look "like new." Were these bought from Polk Direct (the Polk eBay store)? If so, did you bid on them or purchase via "buy it now" route?

I've been thinking about this route, especially if one can save some money off the retail price and they arrive in good shape.

Finally, did you get black or cherry? I assume you matched them to the color of your Rti 4s.

But it now...I haven't seen the A3s for bid.

Black...to match the rest of my gear and cabinets.

I did a very very quick sound check just to verify the speakers were in working order.

I inspected the drivers with the grills off - everything looked like new.

Both speakers work fine....they are definitely of the RTI 'lineage' :)

First noticable difference is a bigger/wider sound stage - but then again, they are a bigger speaker.

I'm going to get them securely mounted in my BT-77s first before any serious listening and re-run the YPAO on my yammy avr just to even the playing field with my RTI4s.

Can't wait for the weekend for more time to do some extended comparisons.

[leroyjr1]

ERIK, you don't like the curved cabinet? I think it's sweet.

[Erik Tracy]

ERIK, you don't like the curved cabinet? I think it's sweet.

It just made mounting them up on my existing BT-77s more...complicated.

But I'm going to use the excellent advice of "McLoki" to get them up today or tomorrow and then do some extended listening tests!

I plan on taking some pictures and then reporting back with what I've decided.

Erik

[Kex]

ERIK, you don't like the curved cabinet? I think it's sweet.
I like it a lot too. I think it makes them look more presitgious, higher end, than the straight sided cabinets of previous Reference Theater products.

[BjornB17]

I like it a lot too. I think it makes them look more presitgious, higher end, than the straight sided cabinets of previous Reference Theater products.

I really like the silver-faced RTi line. It would be awesome if they combine the curved cabinet of the RTi A line with the silver face of the RTi line. They could call it the RTi XYZ-BANANA line.

[Ron Temple]

So what's the story Erik...impressions yet?

[Erik Tracy]

Well....to be honest, this hasn't been as easy as I thought....

I have this Friday off and I'm going to do some more comparisons.

It is practically impossible for me to do direct/quick A/B comparisons as it means shutdown my system, putting up the speakers into the wall mounts, then powering everything back up, then repeating this with the next set of speakers

I've also concluded that the default YPAO setting is not the best to use for a good speaker to speaker comparison.

So I've had to go back and recalibrate my avr with different settings for this.

Because of this, I want to repeat the A/B comparisons.

Stay tuned!

[croutons]

Keep up the good work! Some of us are still curious as to your results!

[Erik Tracy]

Keep up the good work! Some of us are still curious as to your results!


Will do. I just want to be thourough and fair.

This is not a first round knock out (surprised? I am), and I'm trying to capture some more listening tests.

Pictures will be included.

[Erik Tracy]

RTi4 vs RTiA3 Death Match – Full Report

Well, was this really a ‘death match’ in the sense that the bigger A3 scored an instant ‘kill’ against its smaller cousin?

Surprisingly no! I spent some extended time listening to both in various modes and using different sources.

Admittedly I could not do a “true” A/B comparison with instantaneous switching between the two given the constraints of my home setup using wall mounts for my mains.

First I’ll explain the setups I used and then I’ll try to describe what I found.

My system is composed of the following:
AVR: Yamaha RX-V1800
External Amp: Carver M 1.0-t via the avr preouts
Center: Polk CSi3
Surrounds: Polk RTI4s
Subwoofer: Polk PSW303
Blu-Ray/CD player: Sony PS3
Turntable: Sony PXS-55 with Grado Z1+ cartridge, Preamp: TC-760LC

The fronts are wall mounted using the BTech BT-77 mount and I used these to interchangeably mount the RTi4s and the RTiA3s.

The one thing I did not like about the RTiA3s was the shape of the new cabinet, which made it problematic in mounting them using the BTech mounts – the curved sides did not provide enough surface area to hold the speakers securely and since I have my mounts angled down, the A3s easily tipped forward out of the mounts. To overcome this, I used a set of zip ties to hold them to the BTech mount using the powerport in the rear.

Here are the pictures of my rig with the RTi4s and A3s mounted up:
RTi4s:
http://erikt.cts.com/Pictures/rti-death-match/HT-setup-RTI4.jpg

A3s:
http://erikt.cts.com/Pictures/rti-death-match/HT-setup-RTIA3.jpg

I wanted to start from ‘scratch’ and so I re-ran Yamaha’s YPAO auto calibration for both the RTI4s and the A3s, but I soon found that the default YPAO used what Yamaha calls “Natural” Parametric Equalization that shapes too much of the high end and it resulted in an unbalanced coloration of the sound between the two speakers.

Instead I opted to skip the EQ in the auto calibration and set the EQ to off, but let YPAO set the rest of the configurations for speaker size, crossover, level, distance, etc.

As I suspected, YPAO set all my speakers to “Large”, but I saved this anyway as this is still useful and relevant when I went into some Pure Direct listening tests because in Pure Direct, the LFE out on the avr is disabled and the mode is purely 2-channel only, so having the speakers set to Large ensured that they got all the low freq signals when I listened to CDs and LPs.

I did, however, go back into the setup and manually changed the speaker setup to change all the speakers to “Small” and the LFE/Bass to Sub only. And yes, I have drank the kool-aid and have my sub hooked up via the LFE out using a new audioquest Sub-x interconnect :p

Each speaker therefore had 2 saved memory locations:
RTI 4:
Mem=1 for No EQ with Speakers=Large
Mem=2 for No EQ with Speakers=Small, LFE/Bass=Sub, Xover=80Hz

RTIA3:
Mem=3 for No EQ with Speakers=Large
Mem=4 for No EQ with Speakers=Small, LFE/Bass=Sub, Xover=80Hz

Here are some more shots of the RTi4s and A3s:
Fronts
http://erikt.cts.com/Pictures/rti-death-match/RTI-fronts.jpg

Naked
http://erikt.cts.com/Pictures/rti-death-match/RTIs-naked.jpg

I actually prefer the look of the RTI4 fronts!

Tops
http://erikt.cts.com/Pictures/rti-death-match/RTI-Tops.jpg

With everything calibrated, I then proceeded to the listening comparisons.

I used 4 different sources:
1) Turntable: where I listened to Steely Dan’s “Aja”, Side 1
2) PS3: where I listened to Pink Floyd’s “Wish You Were Here”
3) PS3: where I played Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl set to uncompressed PCM (5.1, 48Khz, 6.9Mbps bit rate)
4) Cable FM: smooth jazz (Dolby D, 48Khz sampling rate, 192Kbps bit rate)

I ranged the volume for each source and for each speaker listening for changes in tonality and dynamics and I also changed the memory setting so that each speaker could be listened to both with and without subwoofer integration/support.

So you’re all saying – like the army in Monty Python and the Holy Grail - “GET ON WITH IT!” :D

Well….like I said, this was not as easy as I thought it would be.

Polk got things right with the RTi4s.

After listening to both, I’d say that the RTi4 is like enjoying a good espresso! All the flavors are there in balance in a small cup, but there is great enjoyment to be had savoring in a small serving.

The RTi4s have good imaging, good sound stage with detailing to individual instruments. What could be said against them is that they are lacking a bit in the mid range details and while there is the impression of bass – especially in my setup since they are ‘coupled’ via the wall mount to the whole front wall – there is not real detail down low – nor can there be any real expectations for such in this small speaker.

The RTi4s have what I’d call a ‘modest’ midrange – dare I say something akin to ‘laid back’ at least in comparison to the RTiA3s.

They do strain when pushed to higher volumes and the high end detailing tapers off and the sound stage starts to close down.

For all that though, I really got into the closing theme song to Pirates in full uncompressed 5.1 – the room was full of clean sound!

When I was done after about an hour of listening to the RTi4s, as quickly as I could, I took them down and put up the RTiA3s and called up memory location 4 to get them going for comparisons.

Here’s the thing.

The A3s have a more ‘forward’ midrange, or should I say ‘balanced’ in comparison to the 4s which, relatively speaking, seemed to have the mids ‘recessed’ a tad, compared to the A3s.

The A3s had tighter mid-bass and more crisp punch to percussion. I also detected what I would call faster response in dynamics. This gave me the impression of hearing more detail to the sources – as if I could mentally hear just around to sides of each instrument.

Also the A3s painted a much bigger soundstage – not only from side to side but from top to bottom. The left and right speakers blended completely to project a wide image to my listening spot (whereas the RTi4s painted a nice horizontal sound stage, but not as ‘high’ from top to bottom).

The A3s also kept their sonic cohesiveness to higher volumes than the RTi4s, as if comparing two weight lifters in different classes each trying to bench the same weight: the A3s could “lift” more power with less strain.

Ok, so I’ve said a lot of things that give the decision to the A3 – and yes, they do sound like a bigger brother to the RTi4 and can do things better.

Yet, like a much anticipated football game with one team a clear favorite, you can’t help but admire the underdog putting up a good close game and coming away with respect.

Both are undeniably from the “RTI” line of Polk speakers and for my setup, the highs need to be ‘restrained’ back a bit – which I’ll do so by using the GEQ feature of my avr – yet I thought it important that for my review, the settings were left as neutral as possible to hear the speakers – and not muck with the signals.

If the speaker demons came to my house and ‘cursed’ me to only live with the RTi4s, heck, I’d chuckle and say ‘ok by me’. Things came together in this speaker and for the amount of coin they cost today – wow –fantastic deal.

But, I have to be honest – the A3s are a step up in sound in detail, imaging, presence, and punch. I’m not sure I’d recommend this step for everyone as it is admittedly, not a HUGE step up – more incremental. If a buyer is looking for that next level in SQ improvement, then they’d probably be better off going up to the LSi line.

For me, I was curious and just had to know.

Now I do.

I’m keeping the A3s and will be looking to finding a home for my RTI4s with someone who can appreciate their value.

There it is - now its time for a cold one, or two! :)

Erik

[jaysonbarnett]

I like to add my dell speakers to the battle because i think those will win everytime. If you need to see how great they look click here
http://www.pcplan-it.com/speaker_dell_opo614.jpg
now i can see the fear in your eyes.
P.S. they have been calibrated THX style

[Danny Tse]

Thanks for the comparison, Erik.

[TouchOfEvil]

Great review. Now how much for your rti4's haha.

[Ron Temple]

Erik, I'm impressed with the effort. Interesting read. The RTis vs. the As are close cousins and I agree somewhat of a lateral move, if you were goings 6s to 3s, but you like the bump...I'm glad. I also agree, if you're looking for a step in another direction for music, then LSis or vintage is the way to go in the Polk lineup (and not the vintage books except SDA-CRS).

If you can spare the space...get them off the wall and on stands.

[nikolas812]

Nice write up!!!

I've owned a couple pairs of RTi4's. I was very impressed with them to say the least. I never expected so much out if them.



Nick

[Erik Tracy]

Erik, I'm impressed with the effort. Interesting read. The RTis vs. the As are close cousins and I agree somewhat of a lateral move, if you were goings 6s to 3s, but you like the bump...I'm glad. I also agree, if you're looking for a step in another direction for music, then LSis or vintage is the way to go in the Polk lineup (and not the vintage books except SDA-CRS).

If you can spare the space...get them off the wall and on stands.

Thanks for the compliment!

It was fun to do the comparison and I learned more about my setup - my fear of the OSD menus is now a thing of the past! :p

Believe me, I agonized a long time on how I wanted to get my gear set up - but alas, I've made my bed - and wall mounts are the way it is and so 'bookshelves'.

When I win the lottery I'll have the luxury of getting the perfect house with a dedicated HT room just the way I want it with whatever gear I want! :D

For now, I'm enjoying the journey of 'baby step' upgrades.

Doesn't get much better than opening a nice wine on a relaxed weekend and making minor adjustments here and there - experimenting with settings and basking in the sonic goodness!

Erik

[dpljr]

Awesome, thoughtful review/ I found it quite interesting to learn the differences between the old and new RTi series. Enjoy your new speakers!
Dave

[Kex]

... Well, was this really a ‘death match’ in the sense that the bigger A3 scored an instant ‘kill’ against its smaller cousin?

Surprisingly no!

...But, I have to be honest – the A3s are a step up in sound in detail, imaging, presence, and punch. I’m not sure I’d recommend this step for everyone as it is admittedly, not a HUGE step up – more incremental. ...
Excellent work IMHO! Both in methodology and in the way you reported back what you heard!

It's nice to see that Polk Audio has not been getting it all wrong with their older designs. This has also been my experience with the older RT series (without the "i"), and yes: great bargains can be had used, perhaps more than with almost any other brand.

It's also nice to see that, even though changes between subsequent ranges are slight, and may not merit changing up immediately, the changes over time do make a difference, and they seem to be going in the right direction. I would add that, for people on a budget, the older Polk lines (such as the RT) are truly excellent for a completely convincing home theater experience (excluding subwoofers). They may not be quite adequate for the most discerning listeners when it comes to certain types and/or tracks of music.

All hail Erik Tracy, and all hail Polk Audio! You deserved those cold ones.

[Norm Apter]

Great review Erik! As others have said I really appreciate both your thoroughness and your complete honesty. Posts like this really make Club Polk and excellent place to come and learn.

I think you've done a great job in picking out precisely how they differ in term of music listening experiences.

May I ask about home theater. Have you watched any movies witht the RTia3s in place of the RTi4s as your front speakers? Just wondering if there would be any discernable difference in that department, as well.

In addition, what is the size of your TV/living room?

The reason I ask is because I'm also considering either the Rti or RtiA series down the line for home theater. Initially, I had been thinking about floorstanding speakers as fronts (either RtiA 5s or Rti As) and a mounted bookshelf for rears (either RTi4s, RTi6s or RTiA3s). But since you have mounted speakers for your fronts this has me thinking that maybe floorstanders might not be necessary, especially if you feel that this combo fills up your space aplenty.

Let me pose one other hypothetical to you, in terms of the two models you compared: in the case of rear speakers/surrounds for a home theater set-up, would you see any need to go with the Rtia3s over the Rti4s?

[leroyjr1]

Nice review. Those RTI A3's are huge.

[croutons]

I'll second (or third, or fourth) all the previous comments. That was a job well done, and I enjoyed reading it. Thanks for your time and effort!

[Erik Tracy]

Great review Erik! As others have said I really appreciate both your thoroughness and your complete honesty. Posts like this really make Club Polk and excellent place to come and learn.

I think you've done a great job in picking out precisely how they differ in term of music listening experiences.

May I ask about home theater. Have you watched any movies witht the RTia3s in place of the RTi4s as your front speakers? Just wondering if there would be any discernable difference in that department, as well.

In addition, what is the size of your TV/living room?

The reason I ask is because I'm also considering either the Rti or RtiA series down the line for home theater. Initially, I had been thinking about floorstanding speakers as fronts (either RtiA 5s or Rti As) and a mounted bookshelf for rears (either RTi4s, RTi6s or RTiA3s). But since you have mounted speakers for your fronts this has me thinking that maybe floorstanders might not be necessary, especially if you feel that this combo fills up your space aplenty.

Let me pose one other hypothetical to you, in terms of the two models you compared: in the case of rear speakers/surrounds for a home theater set-up, would you see any need to go with the Rtia3s over the Rti4s?

I watched PotC:Curse of the Black Pearl for the HT portion of the 'shootout' - giving both the RTi4s and the A3s the listening test for a good portion of the movie.

My family room is about 12x12 (the front wall actually measures 9ft - but add about 3 feet for the hallway down the 'side') and it also adjoins to the kitchen on the left.

The 4s and the A3s can fill my family room with quite loud sound as driven by the Carver power amp.

Either one did an admirably job with the movie for HT effects (like the attack of Port Royal from the Black Pearl with lots of canon shot, or Sparrow vs Will Turner sword fight in the smithy).

I thought the A3s as fronts and the RTi4s as rears were a good match - I really didn't notice anything jarringly disparate about the sound: both are in the RTI family.

When listening to Pink Floyd I went up to about -4db on my avr when playing "Have a Cigar" - the house was rockin'!

I guess the decision between towers and bookshelves really depends on just how loud you generally listen to and the power source driving them.

Admittedly, I'm now letting the A3s break in and will need to dial them in to further tune them to get just the sound I want for my setup. Like I said, they do need to be reigned in a bit for the top end - especially for any bright sources/mixes - its just a bit much when going to moderate/loud levels.

If budget is a major constraint, then A3s as fronts with 4s as rears, would be a good match in my opinion. Plus, depending on your set up, if you do have to wall or ceiling mount your rears, the A3s are bigger and heavier. For a 5.1 setup with room constraints, I don't think you're giving up much of anything using the 4s as rears.

One other area I need to spend more time dialing in is the sub and front integration. Because the A3s dig deeper than the 4s, and because I have them wall mounted and because of this they 'couple' to my front wall for bass reinforcement, and because the A3s power ports are closer to my front wall, I'm having a more of a challenge to get the bass management set correctly.

To keep them from being overly 'boomy', I'm playing with the crossover frequency and the sub volume. This was something I was warned about and one consideration Ron expressed a recommendation to get them off the wall and on stands.

For now, that isn't going to work for me - so I'm working within the constraints I have to deal with and do the best I can to dial in the settings.

I really like the A3s and still respect the 4s.

Erik

[leroyjr1]

Have you thought about HT 7.1

[Ron Temple]

Erik, did you note a difference in the tweeter response. I think it's the same part, but either the cabinet design or a crossover tweak really smoothed the response on the 3s vs the 8s I had here (at different times). The 8s always had a touch of sibilance on some content, the 3s it was hardly noticeable on any content.

[Erik Tracy]

Have you thought about HT 7.1

My couch is right up against the back wall, so 7.1 really would not work for my setup.

I've read and heard others say its better to opt for 5.1 that works, than force together a 7.1 that doesn't.

Erik

[Erik Tracy]

Erik, did you note a difference in the tweeter response. I think it's the same part, but either the cabinet design or a crossover tweak really smoothed the response on the 3s vs the 8s I had here (at different times). The 8s always had a touch of sibilance on some content, the 3s it was hardly noticeable on any content.

Ron,
To be honest, I think the A3 and the RTi4 have a tweeter response that are really close to each other: detailed and crisp and 'ethereal' at low volumes, tending to be just a tad 'strident' when pushed loud especially with bright/busy mixes up top that compound the effect.

The more spacious the source and mix - meaning that if there are 'spaces' in the music, the more pleasing the effect. But if the source/mix is busy or edgy by design - then both the A3s and the 4s can be a bit too much up top.

I think that both benefit by pulling back a bit on the high end if pushed loud.

The most notable difference is the mid-range, and lower-treble with the A3s having more presence here than the 4s, hence my comment that I thought the 4s seemed 'recessed' (or 'relaxed' or whatever metaphor you'd choose).

But - that's just me....

[Norm Apter]

Thanks for letting me know about the home theater dynamics, Erik. Your words definately inspire confidence in the consistent quality delivered by the Rti series (old and now) at that price point.

Though this question diverges a bit from the spirit of the original post, I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about the decision process involved in matching the Rti speakers (previously you had 4 Rti4 speakers, right?) with your AVR and amp.

The only negative thing that I hear from time to time about the RTi series is that they tend to be a little on the bright side for music. Were you conscious of this at all when you decided on your AVR and amp?

The second question has to do with power: I see that the upper limit under the official specs by Polk puts each (Rti4 and RtiA3) at 125 wpc. I searched for your AVR on Amazon just to see what you were using and found this:

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V1800BL-7-1-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B000V53V82/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1223226258&sr=8-1

If this indeed is the one that you have, I noticed that it can pump out 130 wpc. I do realize that one can exceed the listed upper limit of wpc, but am wondering if that is primarily the reason you went with the Carver amp (In other words, was it an addition of raw power or a different (i.e. better) sound offered by the Carver amp that pushed you toward the decision to run these with external amplification?).

[Erik Tracy]

Thanks for letting me know about the home theater dynamics, Erik. Your words definately inspire confidence in the consistent quality delivered by the Rti series (old and now) at that price point.

Though this question diverges a bit from the spirit of the original post, I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about the decision process involved in matching the Rti speakers (previously you had 4 Rti4 speakers, right?) with your AVR and amp.

The only negative thing that I hear from time to time about the RTi series is that they tend to be a little on the bright side for music. Were you conscious of this at all when you decided on your AVR and amp?

The second question has to do with power: I see that the upper limit under the official specs by Polk puts each (Rti4 and RtiA3) at 125 wpc. I searched for your AVR on Amazon just to see what you were using and found this:

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V1800BL-7-1-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B000V53V82/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1223226258&sr=8-1

If this indeed is the one that you have, I noticed that it can pump out 130 wpc. I do realize that one can exceed the listed upper limit of wpc, but am wondering if that is primarily the reason you went with the Carver amp (In other words, was it an addition of raw power or a different (i.e. better) sound offered by the Carver amp that pushed you toward the decision to run these with external amplification?).

To be honest, I did not do any extensive research when pairing the avr and the speakers. It was more independent of what HT setups and avrs were getting good reviews.

I have read some opinions that the RTI coupled with the Yamaha makes for a 'bright' pairing. Then again, some of the V1800 reviews say that it has a 'warm' sound. Go figure....

My decision to use the Carver was that I had it from my 2-channel setup and decided to keep it and integrate into my HT setup.

I think there is an actual measurement of the yamaha V1800 on one of the on line reviews with all 7 channels driven and it is lower than the 130 watt/channel rating.

It was my thinking that the avr would be not be pushed too hard if I used the Carver to drive the fronts and so I'd have more headroom for both the mains and for the other speakers as well when the "11" mood strikes me every once and awhile :D

I get a kick out of seeing the leds dance up and down on the Carver when the volume goes up. It's even more of a kick to see that the leds don't even get close to maxing out when the room is LOUD - so there's plenty of headroom left.

For typical moderate listening, in my room, the avr by itself was quite adequate in driving all 5 channels.

fwiw,
Erik

[Ron Temple]

Ron,
To be honest, I think the A3 and the RTi4 have a tweeter response that are really close to each other: detailed and crisp and 'ethereal' at low volumes, tending to be just a tad 'strident' when pushed loud especially with bright/busy mixes up top that compound the effect.

The more spacious the source and mix - meaning that if there are 'spaces' in the music, the more pleasing the effect. But if the source/mix is busy or edgy by design - then both the A3s and the 4s can be a bit too much up top.

I think that both benefit by pulling back a bit on the high end if pushed loud.

The most notable difference is the mid-range, and lower-treble with the A3s having more presence here than the 4s, hence my comment that I thought the 4s seemed 'recessed' (or 'relaxed' or whatever metaphor you'd choose).

But - that's just me....Agree...pushing the RTis on busy content can get a bit strident, though as I said the A3s were much better than the 8s over here. However, the A3s were getting pushed by my Luxman with almost no indications of stress. I didn't have this amp when I had the 8s (or my Carver either). I don't know if your Carver is T modded, if so, I'd think it's rolled off enough to take most of that out. My TFM is more laid back than my Luxman.

[olds97_lss]

I've been on a similar fence. I went from a big 60" rear projection to a 55" flatscreen. I had been using the hitachi RP internal speakers as my center which gave me good depth along with my JBL EC25 for a bit of brightness, but when the TV died and I got a flatscreen, I realized how weak my JBL center was.

I picked up the polk CSi A4 and the sound that comes out of it is just night and day better. Which now has me on a fence about replacing my entire JBL setup with polks. I'm inches away from pulling the pin on the Rti A3's, but they are relatively big and heavy. I either have to do wall mounts, or buy a new tv stand for my hardware to go under the TV instead of beside it. I don't have studs near my current wall mounts... and I have my current speakers about 5 feet up. With the weight and size of the A3's... I have a feeling it won't look so great and may possibly end up on the floor in a pile of junk one morning.

Every time I read something though about the Rti A3's, I get all excited and search the net for a good price.

Anyway, just glad there are people out there that are enjoying these speakers. They do have a great sound compared to many out there.

[Erik Tracy]

You dug deep to revive this thread! :biggrin:

With the proper mounts, you can safely mount the RTiA3s to the wall.

Here's a shot when I had my RTiA3s and CSi3 mounted on the wall - all snug and safe.

http://erikt.cts.com/Pictures/hometheater/home-theater-valor.JPG

[olds97_lss]

Geez... I didn't even notice that. Sorry for stirring up the dust!

Just saw an add for rti4's and did a search for rti4 vs rti a3 and ended up here! lol

[byfthalone]

very sweet set up though Erik

[Lietuvis91]

Hey it's kind of nice to get an update a few years later, good stuff :wink:

[27dnast]

You can totally mount those rtia3's with the aim mounts without stud access. Go to your hardware store and buy some screws and dry wall anchors that can support up to 75 lbs. Each mount will have 3 or 4 if them... If done properly, it won't go anywhere. I mounted some rti4's using that configuration --- works great.

[olds97_lss]

Thanks for the info. A3's back on the radar... lol

[pstrev]

Just get some A5's and don't worry about hanging anything...

Pat

[matchan]

Erik, any more upgrades since 08 ?

[Erik Tracy]

Erik, any more upgrades since 08 ?

Can't seem to stop!:redface:

Upgraded:
Upgraded the RTiA3s to B&W CDM1NTs and the CSi3 to a B&W CDM1SE. To me, this got me what I would call a nice blending of the RTiA series 'sparkle', with the midrange warmth and presence of the LSi.

The CA 640c V2 CDP got upgraded to a Marantz SA-KI Pearl SACD player. Wonderous smooth accurate sound

The Carver got upgraded to a Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated amp. It has HT Bypass so I have all my source components connected directly to the A5 which has plenty of "oomph" and amazing bass control.

And the Sony TT w/ Grado cartridge got upgraded to the Technices 1200MkII w/ Denon DL-160 cart. This took my vinyl experience to a whole new level.

Along with various ICs and Speaker cables.

I'm in a happy place for now....:smile:

[matchan]

Wow Erik. Can you care to contrast the higher end CDM1 NT with the A3 ? Was the difference like "night and day" or a small step up ? Thanks

Pics please...

[Erik Tracy]

http://erikt.cts.com/Pictures/hometheater/CDM1nt-RTiA3-grills-2.JPG

http://erikt.cts.com/Pictures/hometheater/CDM1nt-RTiA3-nekid-1.JPG

In my rig, what I noticed was that the CDM1NTs and RTiA3s had similar high ends for 'sparkle' (detail, if you want to call it that) and treble spaciousness with the nod going to CDM1NTs.

The CDM1NTs have better midrange presentation.

Like I said - if the RTiA3 and LSi7 had a 'child' - it would sound like the CDM1NT.

It was a nice step up for me because I got a great local deal on the B&Ws (used from a local seller). Night and day? No - but noticable.

Some don't like 'sparkle' - so it depends on your tastes in music and system synergy. With the right ICs & speaker cables, the A5 int amp, and the Pearl -SACD, I'm finding that sweet spot for component synergy.

[matchan]

awesome. thanks a lot. feel more confident in my upgrade plans towards the RTi series.