Dark Knight Blu-ray Audio Details

[Ethancf]

So it looks like Warner won't be screwing up this one with Dolby Digital 5.1 like they did with Speed Racer. I'm good with Dolby TrueHD, but I think many will be upset that it's not DTS-HDMA 7.1.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=1787

Opinions, thoughts?

[cheddar]

Certain studios seem to have different arrangements with Dolby and DTS as well as different commitments to remastering audio for 7.1. Warner may very well end up being a Dolby shop, just as New Line and Fox appear to be DTS shops. Just the way the licensing deals went, I suppose. I think TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are pretty much equivalent to each other, though as they are supposed to reconstruct the original uncompressed PCM data, not add anything special to the mix that wasn't already there.

So I'm much more concerned that major studios don't seem to think it's worth the effort to remaster audio for 7.1 surround on their flagship titles. Pretty much a missed opportunity every time they don't. New Line has been a notable standout as they have produced great 7.1 remasters. My guess is that the big studios will get a lot of people to double dip when they offer their 7.1 surround collector's editions...:rolleyes:

[Keiko]

My guess is that the big studios will get a lot of people to double dip when they offer their 7.1 surround collector's editions...:rolleyes:
Them fargin greedy bastiches...

[Ron-P]

Well, it seems Warner is screwing this up. The SD-DVD release will contain the 2.35:1 release while the Blu-ray will contain the 2.35:1 release with the IMAX shots (1.78:1, I believe) mixed in. This means that during playback the aspect ratios will change on us through the entire film.

I can see why this is being done but find it a screw-ball job, give us both versions. Now my mattes will not work and I have to watch the film change AR's which will be nothing but a distraction.

Thanks for another fubar Blu-ray release Warner, this studio just flat out sucks donkey balls. I'll rent this but no purchase until I can get a 2.35:1 Blu-ray release of the film.

[kuntasensei]

Yeah... Tried to watch this last night. The aspect ratio change is SOOOOOoooooo annoying. I ended up stopping it and playing Gears of War 2 instead. They absolutely ruined the experience by putting the IMAX shots in. I really don't understand why there wasn't an option to watch the whole movie in 2.35:1. It sounded amazing... but as soon as it changed to IMAX the second time, I couldn't stand to watch it.

Way to go, Warner. Way to screw up your biggest Blu-ray release release of the year.

[Keiko]

I managed to pick up a SD DVD of this today. I have no complaints. Up-conversion looks great on my system and the audio is excellent. ALOT of LFE on this! :D

I sympathize with you blu-ray guys. I would be annoyed to if the aspect ratio kept changing. That is way to distracting. Why take such an awesome movie and screw it up like that? I agree that there should at least be an option to watch the movie in 2.35:1.

[kuntasensei]

Y'know, as much as they hype the extra space of Blu-ray, you'd think they could have put both versions on the disc. DVDs have offered multiple versions using branched video (for director's cuts, etc.), so there's absolutely no reason they couldn't have done this right. I checked the BD against the DVD... and I gotta say that I preferred watching the DVD. It's a pretty sharp transfer, the audio's still very nice, and I don't have to worry about the aspect ratio changing.

[Keiko]

I checked the BD against the DVD... and I gotta say that I preferred watching the DVD. It's a pretty sharp transfer, the audio's still very nice, and I don't have to worry about the aspect ratio changing.
Honestly, IMO, the cost of some of these blu-ray discs and higher end machines is something I have a hard time justifying. I can wait 3 weeks after a movie has been released and pick it up used for 5.00 from the store I rent from. Standard Def of course. I've compared the PQ with blu-ray on my PS3 vs. 1080p Up-conversion on my Yammie. Personally, I'm still content with SD. I expressed in another thread that with my current rig I can't take advantage of the HD audio with my current system, but I have no desire really to start changing out or buying separate equipment just for HT. While BD is superior, what I have works well enough for me and I don't have to be concerned with these issues.

[Ron-P]

Here's a thread (over at AVS) that has screen caps from both the SD-DVD and Blu. The difference is quite amazing.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1089714

[dholmes]

So during the movie it switches between 2.35 & 1.85,that's going to be annoying

[Ron-P]

Yes it does, and yes it will be. One reason this is off my to-buy list. I'll rent it to see what it's like but I won't buy it.

[Keiko]

Here's a thread (over at AVS) that has screen caps from both the SD-DVD and Blu. The difference is quite amazing.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1089714
Not trying to start a debate, but if that PQ is accurate for the blu-ray disc, I'll stay with the DVD. I'm 100% certain the pic quality on my player is much better than those blu-ray screen shots.

[Ron-P]

Not trying to start a debate, but if that PQ is accurate for the blu-ray disc, I'll stay with the DVD. I'm 100% certain the pic quality on my player is much better than those blu-ray screen shots.
Well, first off, it's a screen cap, they never do justice to the real deal, never. Secondly it shows a substantial difference between the two but I'd image both are better then what those screen shots show.

I will say I have yet to see the PQ of an SD-DVD upscaled come even remotely close to that of Blu-ray.

I have no idea what this DK Blu-ray will look like but it is in my rental queue so if there's not a long wait I'll find out soon enough. I did read that the IMAX footage suffers from EE which will suck. That's one very nice aspect of Blu, no EE.

[millerman 3732]

Not trying to start a debate, but if that PQ is accurate for the blu-ray disc, I'll stay with the DVD. I'm 100% certain the pic quality on my player is much better than those blu-ray screen shots.

There not actually screen shots, Xylon, uses some kind of computer program to get direct image captures from the disc, so not saying that it won't look better on your set up, especially when its in motion, but your seeing exactly what is on the disc.

[dholmes]

Have any of you that gets movies early seen the blu-ray of Dark Knight,if so how does the 2.35 to 1.85 look? thanks

[kuntasensei]

On my 100" screen, the transition is really jarring. And the IMAX scenes look kinda' meh compared to the others, almost hazy by comparison.

This is one of the only times you'll hear me say this: Watch the DVD instead. The BD looks like they jacked up the sharpness meter to its max and the changing aspect ratios are horrible to watch. The DVD, on the other hand, has a pretty smooth transfer without any noticeable enhancements.

[mutelight]

On my 100" screen, the transition is really jarring. And the IMAX scenes look kinda' meh compared to the others, almost hazy by comparison.

This is one of the only times you'll hear me say this: Watch the DVD instead. The BD looks like they jacked up the sharpness meter to its max and the changing aspect ratios are horrible to watch. The DVD, on the other hand, has a pretty smooth transfer without any noticeable enhancements.

But then again you are watching a re-encode of it anyway. I will reserve judgment until the disc actually releases and I can see it in full quality.

High Def Digest spoke quite highly of the image quality.
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1825/darkknight.html

[kuntasensei]

My initial impression was from the recode. That last post was based on the retail BD via PS3 to my calibrated Z2000. But feel free to reserve judgment.

[KrazyMofo24]

Just curious how are you guys able to watch the blu ray version already? One review didn't complain about the transitions. I don't think it's going to be that noticeable it was at the IMAX the scenes were great. Just my assumption it would suck if I have to get the dvd instead.

[mutelight]

My initial impression was from the recode. That last post was based on the retail BD via PS3 to my calibrated Z2000. But feel free to reserve judgment.

How did you see the Blu-ray before its street date?

[kuntasensei]

Friends who work at certain less-than-vigilant retailers. ;)

[mutelight]

Friends who work at certain less-than-vigilant retailers. ;)

Ah right, the internet, the ones who work with torrents, IRC, and newsgroups. haha

[kuntasensei]

Nope, retail disc. He doesn't have surround yet, so he dragged his PS3 over and we strung HDMI cables through my Onkyo 705 and across the room to my Z2000. Only the second time I've hooked up anything to my Z2000 via HDMI ('cause I'm all component) and the first time I've run lossless audio to my 705 (though it was decoded in the PS3, not bitstreamed). Can't say it made me want to jump on the BD bandwagon or buy a PS3, but I may have to do an HDMI run to my projector soon just for the video.

The TrueHD soundtrack was pretty nice! We also spun the BD of Wanted, which was surprisingly a better movie than I thought it would be and had one HELL of a soundtrack!

[mutelight]

Haha, whatever man, glad you enjoyed yourself. While I still don't buy it, it is all good. ;)

[danger boy]

how many in here are going to go out and buy this movie on Tuesday? :)

[millerman 3732]

how many in here are going to go out and buy this movie on Tuesday? :)

Me. :D

[polkatese]

I have one coming from Amazon.

[danger boy]

i plan on picking it up on Tues from BB. I got a $5 off coupon. Blu ray should be amazing.

[mutelight]

I will definitely be at Best Buy tomorrow picking up my copy. :cool:

[thsmith]

i plan on picking it up on Tues from BB. I got a $5 off coupon. Blu ray should be amazing.

+1 BRD from BlockBuster

[Roy Munson]

how many in here are going to go out and buy this movie on Tuesday? :)

I'll be renting it.

[Ron-P]

how many in here are going to go out and buy this movie on Tuesday? :)

I'll rent it until they fix the aspect ratio problem.

[Sherardp]

Coming from Amazon

[mutelight]

I'll rent it until they fix the aspect ratio problem.

What is the problem exactly? They do change the aspect ratio for the scenes shot on a larger film stock but it is done purposefully and not a "problem" except for on possibly a personal level.

[kuntasensei]

Well, I don't know if this is Ron's problem, but a lot of people with projectors use mattes to block off the black bars. Because of the aspect ratio changes, you can't use your mattes with this disc unless you want to see image on them during the IMAX scenes. Comparing the BD to DVD, it looked like all they did for the IMAX scenes was go open matte... so if you are using mattes at home and can tune out the image overspill during the IMAX scenes, it should recreate the theatrical ratio pretty closely.

Personally, I don't use mattes... I just find the aspect ratio change really annoying and prefer the theatrical ratio for this movie. Given the storage space of Blu-ray, they should have given people the option.

[mutelight]

Well yes, I can understand those with masking systems but for the vast majority of viewers, I wouldn't consider it a "problem".

[Ron-P]

Yep, that's right, I cannot use my mattes.

Add to that, it's a problem as this is not the way I saw this in the theater, I saw it with a fixed AR, if this was not the directors intent then it should never have been shown that way. So, personal or not, this Blu release is a problem.

Also, I have yet to find anyone who can actually post a comment by Nolan stating that this Blu release is his preferred version of the film.

[millerman 3732]

Add to that, it's a problem as this is not the way I saw this in the theater, I saw it with a fixed AR, if this was not the directors intent then it should never have been shown that way. So, personal or not, this Blu release is a problem.



The Dark Knight was meant to be seen in an IMAX theater, that's the way Nolan shot it so obviously that how he wanted it to look in theater, aspect ratio change and all, So personally I have no problem with it, but I could see some one using a masking system being bothered by it.

[mutelight]

The Dark Knight was meant to be seen in an IMAX theater, that's the way Nolan shot it so obviously that how he wanted it to look in theater, aspect ratio change and all, So personally I have no problem with it, but I could see some one using a masking system being bothered by it.

Exactly. If Nolan had it his way, he would have shot the entire film on IMAX film stock. But yes, I can also understand the issues with masking systems.

[danger boy]

I'm heading to BB right now to get this movie on BD. :D

[polkatese]

It appears that Danger Boy has been born again Blu-Ray... ;)

[Ron-P]

For those that might not know, I saw Target has a 3-disc set for $29.99 and it comes with a Batman Mask type disc holder, just like the Iron Man set.

I don't see it on their website but I did see it in the store this morning.

[danger boy]

I picked this up this morning. it's limited edition... includes Dark KNight in Blu Ray and also Batman begins with tons of extras. I just wish the audio was DTS MA instead of DTS EX or whatever it is..

[wingnut4772]

I think I'm getting it for Christmas.:p I wish it had DTS 7.1. That is da bomb.

[Ron-P]

I picked this up this morning. it's limited edition... includes Dark KNight in Blu Ray and also Batman begins with tons of extras. I just wish the audio was DTS MA instead of DTS EX or whatever it is..

The audio is Dolby TrueHD, which IMO, is just as good as DTS-MA HD.

[mantis]

Quickly it changes ratios. They do it tastefully if that is even possible. I don't care for it. The full screen shots are awesome. They audio and video quality of this movie is top notch. I liked the film overall but I think I still like the first one better.

I don't like Actor changes. They changes out Rachel. The new actor looked amazingly close but you can tell she was not the same person. Only real bummer for me. Other then that the movies was great. The Joker was sick and twisted like he is suppose to be.

I own it and I will watch it again. I'm cool with it.

Dan

[Ron-P]

After viewing this, I'll be at Target to pick it up, the Bat Mask set that is.

The varying AR isn't too bad, only was it a distraction during the daylight scenes, being that the film is primarily dark it's noticeable but not a distraction. As for EE, what EE? I didn't notice any. The TrueHD track is fantastic as well. The PQ is also first rate.

[mutelight]

After viewing this, I'll be at Target to pick it up, the Bat Mask set that is.

The varying AR isn't too bad, only was it a distraction during the daylight scenes, being that the film is primarily dark it's noticeable but not a distraction. As for EE, what EE? I didn't notice any. The TrueHD track is fantastic as well. The PQ is also first rate.

I was definitely noticing some EE due to visible edge haloing but it still looked really good. The 70mm scenes had my jaw as well as my friends' on the floor, amazing image fidelity. The Dolby TrueHD track though, is absolutely flawless.

[Grimster74]

Well worth the purchase on Blu if you ask me, absolutely kick a$$ movie in my opinion.

Rob

[sdcfan19]

Well worth the purchase on Blu if you ask me, absolutely kick a$$ movie in my opinion.

Rob


I agree. I thought the aspect changes would throw it off, but it isn't really a big deal. I noticed it because I'm into this kinda thing, but my wife didn't even notice it until I brought it to her attention. The Dark Knight is just as good in repeat viewings as it was when I saw it in theaters.

[Polkitup2]

I bought it on Blu-ray but am holding off until the Holidays to watch. I hope my POS Sony BDP-S300 Blu-ray player can handle it. I'll probably have to wait for another firmware release so it can actually play the movie. :(

[millerman 3732]

Great movie, enjoyed it even more the second time around. The aspect ratio change wasn't distracting at all, I didn't even notice most times, BUT.... I don't know if it was the EE or the added sharping, it was alittle hard on the eyes at times, especially the bright scenes in the city.

[polkatese]

I have to say that changes in aspect ratio is mildly annoying since it happens with no warning throughout the movie. the digital copy is a nice bonus, since I can watch it on my ipod video. al in all, good BD to own.

[Ron-P]

Does the digital copy have the varying AR, or is it fixed?

[polkatese]

varying AR, just like the BD, which lead me to speculate that the DVD is that way too.

[dholmes]

I loved this blu-ray,the ar changing wasnt bad at all like I thought it would be I did think the imax sceens where a little soft compared to reg shots. The sceen where they are testing the machine guns omg I took one to the shoulder!!!!

[Ron-P]

varying AR, just like the BD, which lead me to speculate that the DVD is that way too.
Not a chance. The BD would blow the doors off the DVD in every respect. After all my bitching about the varying AR and then watching it, it's not near as bad as I would have thought. Only a couple switches were noticeably drastic. Now, where did I put that slice of humble pie? :)

[Ron-P]

Oh, and here's some good news for the Bat Man...and Blu!


‘Batman’ Could Save the Day


By Thomas K. Arnold | Posted: 10 Dec 2008
tarnold@questex.com

Can Batman save the home entertainment industry?

In a season of hit-or-miss theatrical blockbusters, where some of the misses have been by as much as 30% off target, Warner Home Video’s The Dark Knight landed squarely on the hit side, selling more than 3 million units its first day in stores, 600,000 of them on the high-definition Blu-ray Disc format.

That sets the stage for the Batman sequel to become the top-selling home video release of the year, mimicking its performance on the big screen, where its domestic gross of $530.3 million stands unmatched by any other theatrical release in the past decade.

“We were extremely pleased with first day sales, and we now think it will easily be the biggest title of this year in home video,” said Ron Sanders, president of Warner Home Video.

He notes that the Warner number includes sellthrough only in the United States, Canada and United Kingdom; sales to rental dealers are not factored in.

Sanders also projects that the Blu-ray Disc sales tally alone could rise to 1 million units by Saturday. “In the first two days across those three territories, Blu-ray Disc sales are running between 25% and 30% of total sales, which is a massive number,” he said. “We had expected Blu-ray to account for a significant percentage of sales, but not quite this high, which speaks well for the format. It’s really catching on with consumers.”

The previous Blu-ray Disc sales record was set earlier in the fourth quarter by Paramount Home Entertainment’s Iron Man, which sold more than 500,000 high-definition discs its first week. The Dark Knight shattered that record — in a single day.

“Blu-ray is clearly catching on with consumers,” Sanders said.

There are bigger implications as well. For the home entertainment industry, the DVD/Blu-ray Disc release of The Dark Knight wasn’t just about one title, albeit the biggest title of the year. It was more about the short-term future of the business.

Throughout the fourth quarter, studio executives, key retailers and analysts have been closely monitoring sales of the summer blockbusters. With total home video sales projected to be off by as much as 6% this year, the performance of the hits has taken on special significance.

Back when the DVD business first began to slow four years ago, the first cracks to appear were in the sales totals of the megahits, beginning with Shrek 2, which sold phenomenally well upon its November 2004 release — but not as well as DreamWorks had anticipated.

From that point on, the video-to-theatrical ratio for the big-screen blockbusters continued to decline — and, with it, the fortunes of the entire home entertainment business, which, like its theatrical counterpart, had grown increasingly dependent on the hits.

This year the fourth-quarter parade of summer theatrical blockbusters has had a spotty performance. Some titles, such as Iron Man, did exceptionally well; others, such as Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, could have done better.

The day The Dark Knight went on sale, a Wall Street Journal article said the film’s home video sales performance would be a bellwether for the entire industry.

“When the Warner Bros. film The Dark Knight shattered box office records this summer, it was hailed as a sign that Hollywood can repel an economic downturn,” the article said. “But as that latest Batman installment is released on DVD … it could show that Hollywood’s defenses against a recession are crumbling. Batman’s fate in a declining DVD market will be just one way the movie industry’s claim of being recession-proof will be tested.”


http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/batman-could-save-day-14069

I saw give it another year or two and I bet we start seeing Blu sales beating out DVD.

[polkatese]

Now, where did I put that slice of humble pie? :)

I think you left it right underneath the Kung-Fu Panda case, Ron. ;)