Finding Hidden Speaker Wire Behind Walls

[tryrrthg]

My boss had speaker wire run for an HT when his house was being built. Now he is finally getting around to putting an HT together but he doesn't know exactly where the wires are behind the drywall. He does have access to the ends of the wire that will be connected to the receiver. What is the best/easiest way for finding the speaker ends of the wire behind the walls?

Thanks!

[George Grand]

A small digging tool is what I'd recommend.

You have to do anything on your job to keep this guy from hurting himself with scissors all day long as well?

[tryrrthg]

Nah, we sit in front of non-threatening Excel spreadsheets all day.

[ben62670]

Tell him to contact the guys that buried the wires. They should not have been buried. How long has the work been done for?

[tryrrthg]

Tell him to contact the guys that buried the wires. They should not have been buried. How long has the work been done for?

Couple years.

He called them and they told him how to go about finding them but he had to go buy something. My boss couldn't remember what it was called. I thought I'd ask to see if there was something simple he could do... He doesn't really want to go tearing up drywall, but I'm willing to bet he's going to end up tearing it up no matter what he does to find them.

[bikezappa]

Your boss must work at wall street.

We just need to bail him out with a new home.

Give him some sissors like George said and then you can get his job very soon.

[tryrrthg]

He's actually a pretty handy guy which is why he doesn't want to pay these jokers to come out and dig out the wires for him.

[bikezappa]

It sounds like he put an underground sprinkler piping system in the back yard and now wants to connect the watering heads but doesn't know where the pipes are.

[treitz3]

Why doesn't he just use the existing wires instead of digging them up? It's not that hard to figure out what wire is what, provided they set it up properly.

[treitz3]

Nevermind, I see that he has access to the receiver side, but not the speaker side. Start digging.

[disneyjoe7]

How about one of these :)

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2356554&cp=&sr=1&kw=metal+detector&origkw=metal+detector&parentPage=search

[John30_30]

Maybe they're exposed up in the attic. Probably not, tho.
The guy that built my house (for himself) 28 years ago at least hung the ends out of the drywall and rolled them up. I may get around to using that, finally. :D

[Hawkeye]

If either of you have access to an electonics type guy, ask him for a TDR. That is a Time Domain Refractometer. You attach it it to the exposed wires and send a signal down the line and it will tell you how many inches away the end of the wire is. You can then measure around the wall and get you very close to the end. Hopefully, any guys familiar with this device here will correct me on the exact procedure if I'm in error. The electronics guys at work use it all the time to find wires in the airplanes we fix.

Gordon

[ntculenuff]

there is such a tool that you can get it will make finding hidden wire much easier http://www.flukenetworks.com/fnet/en-us/products/Pro3000/Overview.htm i picked mine up at home depot. works great

[Lowell_M]

The 61-958 Ideal Circuit Tracer will get you within a half an inch of where the wire is in the wall. You could trace the path with a pencile..... But it will cost you about $1000. (It does a lot more than find speaker wire, but would be much easier to use than a tone&probe.)

http://www.idealindustries.com/products/test_measurement/circuit_analyzers/suretest_circuit_tracers.jsp

[John30_30]

there is such a tool that you can get it will make finding hidden wire much easier http://www.flukenetworks.com/fnet/en-us/products/Pro3000/Overview.htm i picked mine up at home depot. works great

There ya go. Only ever used them for phone lines. I didn't realize you could use a Fluke for speaker wire too.:o

[disneyjoe7]

If the wire is in the wall I don't see why my idea wouldn't work? I can't see how a tone'a would work if you don't know where the wire is now.

[tryrrthg]

there is such a tool that you can get it will make finding hidden wire much easier http://www.flukenetworks.com/fnet/en-us/products/Pro3000/Overview.htm i picked mine up at home depot. works great

This is getting closer to what he was trying to explain to me from what the installer told him. He was saying you connect something to the one end he has access to and then it sends some kind of signal/tone through the wire. Then you wave a (magic?) wand over the walls and it will tell you where the wire is behind the walls... :confused:

How does that thing work?

If the wire is in the wall I don't see why my idea wouldn't work? I can't see how a tone'a would work if you don't know where the wire is now.

The metal detector would pick up screws, nails, electrical wire, etc.

[Lowell_M]

[QUOTE=tryrrthg;925903]This is getting closer to what he was trying to explain to me from what the installer told him. He was saying you connect something to the one end he has access to and then it sends some kind of signal/tone through the wire. Then you wave a (magic?) wand over the walls and it will tell you where the wire is behind the walls... :confused:

How does that thing work?

QUOTE]
A tone and probe is going to be a pain in the ass to use behind the wall on speaker wire.

He was actually talking about the gadget that I posted for you. It sends a signal down the wire and the "magic wand" looks for the signal. You can even use it to trace copper water lines....or anything metal in your walls, for that matter. They are mostly used for tracing electrical circuits through the wall so that you don't cut through a wire when doing a re-mod. On sales calls, our sales guys ( I work for IDEAL) get asked all the time how it works and most of them don't know. They literally tell people "it's magic".

[ben62670]

3 options

1-hire a pro with the right tools
2-get lucky
3-Make a big mess

[tryrrthg]

Yep, I think he's realizing that now. He said he found the construction pictures so he has an idea of where to start. He's going to start with a little hole and a coat hanger and see if he gets lucky.

[ben62670]

Yep, I think he's realizing that now. He said he found the construction pictures so he has an idea of where to start. He's going to start with a little hole and a coat hanger and see if he gets lucky.

Well I hope he can see the wire in those pics. Spend a little time knocking for studs can go a long way;)
Good luck.
Ben

[treitz3]

Do the wires run up in the attic? If so, you could possibly see where the lines drop down in between the studs. This will keep you within a foot or two of where the wires will be.

[mmadden28]

I agree on the Toner option. They're not expensive and readily available and any IT guy that handles your network at work should have a set-You might be able to just borrow it (if things are run well at the office then the thing should be sitting on a shlef getting dusty)-It certainly can't hurt. I never tried it on anything other than tel/network cabling, but it may work. Of course it would help to know an approximate area where the cables are as you need to be fairly close to the wires to detect the tones.

I have a (Fluke CableIQ (http://www.flukenetworks.com/fnet/en-us/products/CableIQ+Residential+Qualifier/)) that will also do TDR for Cat 5/6, but I've never tried it on speaker cable-I'll bring mine home tonight to see if it will-I might try it on some Coax as well. The model I got is made for qualifying HT installs so it has the adapters on it for speakers and coax as well-so maybe... Hmmm.

But when all is said and done aside from tracing with a toner, looking in the basement or attic or hiring a pro-I'd rather run $1k of new speaker cable than spend $1k on a device that will likely only be used once. Ben how long can you braid that silver wire? ;)

[mmadden28]

I'm still a bit baffled by the fact that he had cables run for HT, but that they weren't terminated and possibly just left blindly in the wall. :confused:

I would think that if the runs were meant for ease of install at construction time but for future termination, that either the cable would be left coiled above in the attic, or below in the basement waiting to be fished and terminated. Or they would alredy be run but left unterminated in an installed gangbox with a blank plate. There you go look for a blank plate on the walls.

[mmadden28]

How about one of these :)

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2356554&cp=&sr=1&kw=metal+detector&origkw=metal+detector&parentPage=search

I tried that before-the thing has a wide swath of detection and picks up rebar in the concrete, as well as every nail and screw, etc in the floors and walls. Definitaly best for outdoors.
On the other hand, this Zircon (http://www.zircon.com/products/metal_mt6.html)might also work---It says it will detect cables and it doesn't just say live AC wires (which detection is usually done by detecting the live wire only) This is actually a handheld metal detector. :cool:

[ben62670]

You don't want to detect a live AC wire, and poke it;)

[tryrrthg]

From what I've been told it's his basement, but not really. it's like a sunken room that has finished space, or an exterior wall, on all sides of it. so there is no access from basement/attic/crawlspace etc.

He said his brother had one of those metal detectors that works like a stud finder. he was going to try that also.

[ntculenuff]

it's like $90 at home depot use it for what you need and return it.
if you have and idea where the wires are connect the aligator clips to the exposed wire (stripped ends) press the button for a solid tone or an alternating tone walk over to where the wire might be use the wand to sniff it out around the area. you will here the tone it will be louder when your closest to the wire it is actually really simple
35606

sorry it is a little blurry. cell phone :)

you'll be able to narrow it down to which studs the wire is between then when you cut your hole for the speaker you just reach in and grab it

[mmadden28]

You don't want to detect a live AC wire, and poke it;)

Of course the zircon also alerts to a live wire as well. :cool:

[treitz3]

That Zircon is a piece of crap in my experience. Not recommended. Damn thing can't even find a stud half the time. I know, I own one.

[mmadden28]

I forgot about my audio setup at the office, so I tested with the speaker wires there. I simulated the wire in the wall by holding it behind the wall. With a toner and detector, I was able to detect the wire, but I was also able to pick up the tone from over 5 feet away and and it didn't get much louder when I was right on top of it (through the wall), when I got within inches of it, it certainly got very much louder-so it might depend on wheer in the wall cavity the wire is sitting. YMMV.

I also tested the TDR to measure the length and it worked fine. It was actually quite accurate on the speaker wire I had. Although I'm nor sure how useful this info will be unless you really had no idea what room the wires ran to. Since he had the wires run for a HT, I can only imagine that he at least know which room they'll be in, and mayeb even which walls. Also the wire could be couled somewhere thus skewing the actual distance.

From the first post I'm assuming he knows the room and the walls, he just needs to figure out which studs to poke through right?
EDIT--If they ran the correctly, the speaker wires won't be in the same stud space as any AC outlets if that helps.
Hope he finds some useful construction pics.

[mmadden28]

That Zircon is a piece of crap in my experience. Not recommended. Damn thing can't even find a stud half the time. I know, I own one.

The unit I linked to is not a stud finder-its only a metal detector.

[treitz3]

Oh, I have one of those that has A/C duct, electrical/telephone line, stud and plumbing detectors. That damn thing has told me once that a freakin' stud was an A/C duct! The A/C duct was actually 5 feet away.

I have had many a word with the manufacturer and HD and the end result is that I wasted my $$$. No return, refund, exchange or replacement. I forget how much I spent on it, but I do know that it was over $160.00. :mad:

Oh well, you live and you learn.

[disneyjoe7]

I don't know but I feel this is going to be a trip into the "Attic" to see where those wires are.

[Logic 7]

We use tone generators all the time to find wires. You can also hook the wires up to the stereo and play something thru it and find the wires with the wand.

[mmadden28]

We use tone generators all the time to find wires. You can also hook the wires up to the stereo and play something thru it and find the wires with the wand.

I discovered that myself last week. I did it with the headphone to RCA cable from my iPod. :rolleyes: interesting-It was like picking up an AM broadcast.

Another good use of a tone detector is to look for sources of hum near any sensitive (audio) equipment. :cool: