Audio Interconects

[Braddles]

:confused:
Im looking to improve my 2 channel set up and have read here and elsewere that upgrading you interconect cables will help. I have some basic cables at the moment ($30-$40) and just got some AudioQuest King Cobra ($325)cables to try.

Every shop i went into said i would hear a HUGE difference between what i have and the next step up. (anywere from $79 up)

Well i just finished a hour or two of comparing the two and the thing is the improvement was only "Just" noticable. Not the night & day everyone was telling me i would get. I was supposed to "hear things i didnt even know was on the disc".

In the end i cant see what im spending my $300 on.

I got my wife to have a listen without her knowing which was which and she was also battling to tell the difference. At one stage when she said she thought one was a little bit smoother, guess what? It was my cheep cables that were playing!

Im taking them back tomorrow and maybe try a different brand or somthing.

I did a fair bit of reserch on the net and Audioquest sounded like a good brand to go for.

[TNRabbit]

It depends on the rest of your system as to how much difference you'll hear.

[ben62670]

I believe some people can't hear a difference. Like me I can't tell cheap wine from the good stuff. If you can't hear a difference consider yourself lucky. Just out of curiosity what components does the test rig consist of, and what media were you using for your test?
Ben

[Braddles]

Luxman LV113 int amp (70wpc)
Marantz 6002 cdp
Polk Monitor 12s

Listen to:
Maroon 5
Sting
Eagles
Dire straites
Christopher Cross

Dont get me wrong i have a pretty good ear for what i like but i expected more from this.

[ben62670]

Speaker cables?

[Braddles]

Esoteric Audio USA 12 AWG

[ben62670]

Just a couple more quick questions.
What IC's did you have before?
How long did you let them burn in before the comparo?

[Braddles]

My cables are just a generic brand (pro audio) the local shops get made as give aways when you first buy a system. I got them when a got my HT stuff as they were beter than the stock cables i got with the 2 channel stuff some 18 odd years ago.

The Audioquest were straight out of the box.

Should i leave it playing overnite and try again tomorrow?

[ben62670]

Should i leave it playing overnite and try again tomorrow?

Yep. Take a good dynamic CD, and let it repeat at least 24hrs. The volume position doesn't matter seeing they are between your CD, and receiver. Some cables can take over 300hrs to fully burn in. The ones I sell you can hear a big difference in just the first 2-3 hours, and are almost fully burned in in about 80hrs. Hopefully someone who has the same IC's will chime in. You had some pretty good choices for evaluation music. Just use something you are very familiar with. If you don't hear a noticeable difference don't waste your money on IC's. In the future if you change gear try it again. Synergy is a PIA.
Ben

[Braddles]

Cheers Ben!

[shack]

An oldie but goodie thread if you have some time to read it....good info and interesting opinions.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14424

Opinons on cables are just that...opinions. Everybody has their own. Some can hear differences...some can't. To some it's "snake oil" to others it's an "absolute amazing difference". I know what I think and don't really care what others ultimately decide as it has NO bearing on what I do. Either way it is just a part of the hobby and all good.

[WilliamM2]

Take them back and stick with what you have. If there really was a difference between cables, there would be no debate.

[steveinaz]

Cable changes are generally subtle irregardless of price, IME. I would be weary of anyone who says they make a "huge" difference.

[shack]

Take them back and stick with what you have. If there really was a difference between cables, there would be no debate.

Or if there is clearly NO difference there would be no debate... :rolleyes:

[concealer404]

I demo'd the Diamondbacks against my Sidewinders for about a month.....

In the end, i didn't hear much difference, but somehow, the Sidewinders sounded a little warmer.... sooo, i went for them, returned the Diamondbacks. The sales person at Ovation was extremely surprised.

I DID, however, hear a large difference going to the Sidewinders from the cheap-o Monster cables i was using.

[heiney9]

I give the OP huge props for atleast venturing out to do a comparison. In the end the only opinion that matters is the listeners.

Try burning them in and using them for a few days. Not sure what the return policy is but use all that time to evaluate. Nothing you purchase can you expect to use for a few hours and then try to make an evaluation.

In the end it may not be worth the cost for what you hear or don't hear. But now you'll know form your own experiences that the particular cables you are using aren't what you're looking for.

But, you atleast TRIED it. Hopefully the dealer will let you audition other types of cables. It's the only way to know for sure.

H9

[rayslifecycle]

Yes - another Cables thread.:cool:
Ben's advice is sound on this.....let them burn in.....

Your cables can make a difference.
But just like anything else........the law of diminishing returns applies..........
When you are comparing $50 dollar cables to $5 cables (always assume equal length) - the difference in what you hear should be very noticeable;)......when you compare $50 cables to $300 cables and your other equipment is sensitive enough to take advantage of this improvement - you will hear a slight difference........moreover you will notice that when comparing cables in the upper price ranges - you start prefer one cable over another - and - someone else will prefer differently then you because we all are unique.....

[heiney9]

Yes - another Cables thread.:cool:
Ben's advice is sound on this.....let them burn in.....

Your cables can make a difference.
But just like anything else........the law of diminishing returns applies..........
When you are comparing $50 dollar cables to $5 cables (always assume equal length) - the difference in what you hear should be very noticeable;)......when you compare $50 cables to $300 cables and your other equipment is sensitive enough to take advantage of this improvement - you will hear a slight difference........moreover you will notice that when comparing cables in the upper price ranges - you start prefer one cable over another - and - someone else will prefer differently then you because we all are unique.....

I do agree somewhat. But you really can't base it all on price. I've heard cheaper cables sound better (to me) than expensive ones. It's a good general rule of thumb but I wouldn't necessarily say this is always true. It's one of many tools to help evaluate.

System synergy has a lot to do with it plus a persons likes and dislikes as far as sound and those aren't always dictated by price; ie; some people may not like the sound very expensive cables can present, etc.

H9

[steveinaz]

I demo'd the Diamondbacks against my Sidewinders for about a month.....

In the end, i didn't hear much difference, but somehow, the Sidewinders sounded a little warmer.... sooo, i went for them, returned the Diamondbacks. The sales person at Ovation was extremely surprised.

I DID, however, hear a large difference going to the Sidewinders from the cheap-o Monster cables i was using.

I found the Diamondback's very cold sounding too--I prefer the Copperhead/Sidewinder to the DB.

[Erik Tracy]

I've got a set of ICs on order from Ben.

I'd love to do a Polk forum review of these ICs vs my current set of ancient Monster cable ICs.

To date, I'll admit to being somewhat of a skeptic of ICs - taking the middle road of always using some sort of 'better than average' ICs yet not really bothering to do any sort of actual comparison in SQ.

But - I'll give it a whirl this time. It could be that my gear, however, won't be in the right tier to really bring out any clear audible difference.

I've got an open mind - we'll see! :D

[heiney9]

All I can say is recently I made the jump to MIT and I won a true 75 ohm digital Signal Cable (to go between my DAC and CDP) at PF and my system is giving me even more grins than I thought possible.

It's jumped to another level. I just can't believe the difference it makes when listening to extremely familiar material. To me it's not subtle as this is very familiar music. The sound stage and bass response is where it's most noticeable. Instrument separation as well as background vocals have a lot more depth. The sense of "realism" has increased as well.

H9

[Kex]

I've got a set of ICs on order from Ben.

I'd love to do a Polk forum review of these ICs vs my current set of ancient Monster cable ICs.

To date, I'll admit to being somewhat of a skeptic of ICs - taking the middle road of always using some sort of 'better than average' ICs yet not really bothering to do any sort of actual comparison in SQ.

But - I'll give it a whirl this time. It could be that my gear, however, won't be in the right tier to really bring out any clear audible difference.

I've got an open mind - we'll see! :D
I need to do this comparison too, but I only have two pairs, and actually need three (for SACD and DVD-A 5.1). Before even using them though, I will say that Ben's (BW Audio Audio Concepts, for any newcomers that don't know who Ben is yet) cables are gorgeous IMO ... they look and feel like a fabulous product, and at Polk Pricing ($60/pair + shipping), they must be one of the few genuine high end bargains where trying out a theory doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

[F1nut]

Cables must burn in, this is fact. Don't even listen to new cables until the burn in is complete.

The system must have enough resolution to allow the cables to do their thing and synergy is always king.

[jm1]

Based on your original post in the thread, I would suggest investing the funds on upgrading the components/speakers before addressing cabling. This might yield the results you are after.

[curved]

Based on your original post in the thread, I would suggest investing the funds on upgrading the components/speakers before addressing cabling. This might yield the results you are after.

Agreed

Don't get me wrong, I like Luxman - my dad has had an L-430 (105x2) from new and it still sounds sick!!

[Braddles]

Cheers for all the feedback everyone!!!!!

I have a good rep with the dealer and he let me take these IC's home to try so there will be no probs taking them back. Ive been running the system overnite and will let it run today while at work and will report back.

I have wanted to update the old luxman for a while (only $'s holding me back) so maybe better off looking at that next as the CDP is new and i want to update the XO's on the 12's to give them a refreash.

[SolidSqual]

Not to be a party pooper, but why are you spending $300 on cables? Looking at your system, it seems you could be spending that kind of cash on better equipment that would certainly deliver "huge" results.

[F1nut]

Ive been running the system overnite and will let it run today while at work and will report back.


As stated previously, burn in takes time. Some cables take 300+ hours. 24 hours isn't enough.

That said, I agree with some of the others. It all starts at the source, garbage in, garbage out. Get a better source.

[ben62670]

Do they have Kimber PBJs there. With your rig I think they would work real good. Those don't take a lot of time to burn in, and can be had cheap used.
Ben

[Braddles]

Yes Ben i can get Kimber here. Will look into them. Cheers mate you've been helpfull.

F1nut. Thanks for telling me my CDP is **** but im afraid its all i could afford for now. (retail for $799 in oz)

What you guys have to remember is what ever you are used to paying for things in the states you can pretty much double it with the exchange rate and freight.

For instance you may be interested to know (yes i will start a diff thead in a min) i just picked up a pair of SDA 2a's off ebay in great condition for $500.00. These were over 3k in Australia.

[Braddles]

Not to be a party pooper, but why are you spending $300 on cables? Looking at your system, it seems you could be spending that kind of cash on better equipment that would certainly deliver "huge" results.

I agree. i am looking at some pre/power combo's at the moment. Just thought i would try a $300 upgrade before a $3000 one.

I have high end taste but not the budget to match.

There are some Quad 99/909 on sale for $2500. (nom $3899)
from the reviews ive seen they have great mids with good lows & highs.

Dealer will let me take it home to try so will be interesting.

[ben62670]

I would hold off on IC's till you get the gear you will be keeping. IC's that sound good on one system may not on another.

[Braddles]

maybe i should just get some from you ben?

[SolidSqual]

Upgrade speakers, then amp, then preamp, then source, then cables, then acoustic treatment, then power conditioning, then isolation . . .

[ben62670]

maybe i should just get some from you ben?

I only have one problem with that. I never sell my cables from any sort of a cable debate thread. If you were looking for cables, had heard differences in different cables, and were looking to upgrade I would be fine with that. If I sold you cables at this point then that devalues my opinions on cables, I look like a cable pimp, and I am not actually looking out for the OP's best interest. This is why I recommend other brands than my own in these situations. Now if you find out you can hear a difference in cables, and want to try mine that would be great. For now I suggest you continue with your Pre/amp hunt. I hope you understand.
Thanks
Ben

[jm1]

Upgrade speakers, then amp, then preamp, then source, then cables, then acoustic treatment, then power conditioning, then isolation . . .

What he said but acoustic treatment should have a higher priority than everything else so you can hear what the components actually sound like in your room.

[SolidSqual]

What he said but acoustic treatment should have a higher priority than everything else so you can hear what the components actually sound like in your room.

I listed it lower to allow for the fact hat you won't know what treatment you need until the system is together. This is the most cost effective route.

[Hawkeye]

What he said but acoustic treatment should have a higher priority than everything else so you can hear what the components actually sound like in your room.

No truer words were ever spoken. I wish I had started down the "room is a component" thought earlier than I did. I think some very fine speakers and electronics were traded or sold by me before they had a chance to show what they were actually capable of.

Gordon

[reeltrouble1]

I never sell my cables from any sort of a cable debate thread. Now if you find out you can hear a difference in cables, and want to try mine that would be great. Thanks
Ben

wow.

[pearsall001]

Upgrade speakers, then amp, then preamp, then source, then cables, then acoustic treatment, then power conditioning, then isolation . . .

That's one good way of spending a ton of money & still not being happy. Until you realize that the room is a componet of "extreme importance" (more towards the top of the list)...you're just spinning your wheels. If the room isn't right, good stuff can sound lousy & you're still sitting there scratching your head wondering why.