Emotiva Customer Service

[Kex]

Well you guys, there's a very hot thread over at AVS right now concerning Emotiva. I read the thread with great interest, since a fellow Polkie here had the same c/s issue with Emotiva some time last year.

Basically, a customer purchased an LPA-1 amplifier, but was not happy, so he returned it. He later changed his speakers and bought an LPA-1 used (without going through Emotiva) and liked it this time, so he decided that he would ultimately prefer two XPA-5 to power those speakers even better, and placed an order with Emotiva.

Well, Emotiva noticed he had previously returned a unit, so they not only told him that they would not sell him an XPA-5, and cancelled his order, but they went so far as to tell him that if he did not like the LPA-1, he would not like the XPA-5, since they were basically the same! So much for the advantages of extra power! The only product they would sell to him was their most expensive amplifier, at $1,700, without the option to return it within thirty days.

Anyway, it's a long thread by now, with over 300 posts and more than 11,000 views. There is of course some garbage included, but it may be of interest to some. Like I said, a fellow polkie encountered a similar fate as the OP in this thread, with no happy ending AFIK.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1086174

[Hilbert]

Having read a few of the posts over there, I think there's a case to be made on Emo's behalf:

(a) This isn't David vs. Goliath. Emo is a small corporation; if the Laufmans have any kids it's a Mom and Pop corporation.

(b) This is not a moral issue. Emo hasn't reneged on a promise or refused to fulfill a contract. A customer upon whom they had previously lost money came back for more, and Emo imposed some conditions on the second transaction. Why the hell not. The conditions may or may not be resasonable. They claim (I think) that the XPA-5 is like the UPA-7 in that both are short signal class A/B something. I can't discuss this claim; I can't even state it, but it seems obvious to me Emo have a perfect right to make conditions, wisely or not, on their own business.

Finally, (c) the plaintiff ordered a UPA-7, returned it for a refund, then bought a very similar LPA-1 used. Maybe these transactions were innocent. Certainly audiophiles have been known before this to behave in an erratic, volatile manner. But now he wants not one but two XPA-5s. Presumably to bi-amp his fronts and center with 400 wpc? I can't read minds and maybe this is all above board, but if it were my money going out the door I'd be thinking about the scene in Animal House where the guy is trying to get dates for all his friends.

Just my two cents, he said, in a futile effort to fend off a flame war...

[Early B.]

Having read a few of the posts over there, I think there's a case to be made on Emo's behalf:

(a) This isn't David vs. Goliath. Emo is a small corporation; if the Laufmans have any kids it's a Mom and Pop corporation.

Emo is small, but it is part of a much larger company. It's definitely not a mom & pop shop.

(b) This is not a moral issue. Emo hasn't reneged on a promise or refused to fulfill a contract. A customer upon whom they had previously lost money came back for more, and Emo imposed some conditions on the second transaction. Why the hell not. The conditions may or may not be resasonable. They claim (I think) that the XPA-5 is like the UPA-7 in that both are short signal class A/B something. I can't discuss this claim; I can't even state it, but it seems obvious to me Emo have a perfect right to make conditions, wisely or not, on their own business.

Emo is probably selling its gear at cost or at very low margins, so returns actually represent a loss for them. So if someone wants to come back and buy two more amps that are quite similar to the amp he returned, I can understand Emo's hesitancy to sell it again. They are not obligated to sell their products to anyone to wishes to buy them. However, if what is occurring is true, it's probably not worth the forum flames.

[MikeC78]

They are obviously contradicting there policy, it states pretty clear on what it is....

Maybe there should be a written disclaimer on Emo's behalf; that you'll be banned from future purchases, If you happen to dislike their amp and initially return one? Whatever, I'll definetly steer clear from them...

[SolidSqual]

Haha! Does this mean Emo won't sell me their new CDP or subs without stipulations? I returned two XPA-2s! So far I'm on both preorder lists and no one has said anything to me. Perhaps there is more to this issue than just a hesitancy to sell from simple returns.

[Early B.]

Haha! Does this mean Emo won't sell me their new CDP or subs without stipulations? I returned two XPA-2s! So far I'm on both preorder lists and no one has said anything to me. Perhaps there is more to this issue than just a hesitancy to sell from simple returns.

I agree. This story doesn't make sense. There's probably some very important tidbits of information that are not being divulged. I'd wait until Emo speaks on this issue.

FWIW -- I have personally dealt with various Emo staff on several occasions and all of them exhibit some of the best customer service I have ever encountered, so this issue smells fishy to me.

[SolidSqual]

I agree. This story doesn't make sense. There's probably some very important tidbits of information that are not being divulged. I'd wait until Emo speaks on this issue.

FWIW -- I have personally dealt with various Emo staff on several occasions and all of them exhibit some of the best customer service I have ever encountered, so this issue smells fishy to me.

Emo customer service could be the best I have every dealt with from a big company. They are extremely responsive to any and all inquiries.

[SolidSqual]

Maybe the guy is a "serial return artists"? Perhaps Emo just cut him off?

[MikeC78]

Did you guys read the (AVS)thread? This was posted on the Emo Forum until it was found and deleted, with no rebutle whatsoever. There really isn't any excuse for a response like that period, imagine getting an email like that from Pioneer, Denon, or even Polk? (would never happen)

[bobman1235]

There's at least 3 people on this board who have had excellent customer service from them, I wouldn't write them off so quickly based on one experience from a stranger.

[MikeC78]

There's at least 3 people on this board who have had excellent customer service from them, I wouldn't write them off so quickly based on one experience from a stranger.

I agree, but there is more than ONE person voicing a negative experience over there. It only takes one bad experience, not to many people go out of there way to post anything positive until something bad happens.

[cfrizz]

Precisely Bob. This so called customer sounds like a flake, an expensive flake at that.

If I returned something to a company because I didn't like it, What would make me think I would like something else of theirs?:confused:

I'd go elsewhere for whatever.

Sorry I don't blame Emotiva for their caution.

[SolidSqual]

I agree, but there is more than ONE person voicing a negative experience over there. It only takes one bad experience, not to many people go out of there way to post anything positive until something bad happens.

Really? Do magazine and personal reviews of their products count as positive feedback? You can read those all the time.

What about the throngs of threads started in anticipation of Emotiva products?

The fact of the matter is that the internet provides a great forum for a minority of dissatisfied individuals to throw a shit fit. What remains true is that they are a minority. Otherwise, Emotiva would not be fortunate enough to be expanding their product lines and upgrading existing ones.

What do you mean it only takes "one bad experience?" And what, the company falls? You got to be kidding? I know people who bad mouth Emotiva products simply because they cost less. You can't make eveyone happy, especially those who want to hate your product because it messes with their world view that a quality product can't be sold cheap.

If a company doesn't have haters, then it means they are not pushing their designs. It means they are not making conscious decisions to serve a particular market.

[MikeC78]

I see no reason not to give someone a second chance, especially when purchasing a different product. Seriously, if you purchased any Polk product and returned it, you would totally shun them from purchasing anything else? I doubt that...

[MikeC78]

Really? Do magazine and personal reviews of their products count as positive feedback? You can read those all the time.

What about the throngs of threads started an anticipation of Emotiva products?

The fact of the matter is that the internet provides a great forum for a minority of dissatisfied individuals to throw a shit fit. What remains true is that they are a minority. Otherwise, Emotiva would not be fortunate enough to be expanding their product lines and upgrading existing ones.

What do you mean it only takes "one bad experience?" And what, the company falls? You got to be kidding? I know people who bad mouth Emotiva products simply because they cost less. You can't make eveyone happy, especially those who want to hate your product because it messes with their world view that a quality product can't be sold cheap.

If a company doesn't have haters, then it means they are not pushing their designs. It means they are not making conscious decisions to serve a particular market.

You are taking me the wrong way... I was expressing the fact that the company gets more attention from just ONE bad experience, and can often steer people in the other direction. Calm down killer...;)

I was agreeing with Bobman, however, I look at it both ways, and the response from Emo was wrong.

[SolidSqual]

You are taking me the wrong way... I was expressing the fact that the company gets more attention from just ONE bad experience, and can often steer people in the other direction. Calm down killer...;)

I was agreeing with Bobman, however, I look at it both ways, and the response from Emo was wrong.

Ya see what Emotiva gear did to me? AND I returned mine. Imagine what savages the people are like who kept their stuff!

That being said, people who like the gear already will not be steered away. To say, one bad review will steer away a ton of people is way too simplistic.

For example, extremely respectable people on this forum have said some no so nice things about Odyssey Audio gear and support. Despite these comments, I still bought my amps. Why? Because the multitude of good reviews squashed the bad.

[NewHTguy]

Did you guys read the (AVS)thread? This was posted on the Emo Forum until it was found and deleted, with no rebutle whatsoever. There really isn't any excuse for a response like that period, imagine getting an email like that from Pioneer, Denon, or even Polk? (would never happen)

I was following the relevant thread on Emo's site in which the incident was mentioned and the letter from the company had been posted. When I tried to post my 1.5 cents, the thread was locked. Then I refreshed the page and the posts were gone! I was like WTF! Big brother is choosing what I read. How can I trust all the positive reviews on their website if they delete some of the negative feedback. Even if I could accept their response to the guy, I cannot accept censorship. If I were to learn that Polk deletes negative comments about Polk I would never buy another speaker from them. very sad.

[SolidSqual]

I was following the relevant thread on Emo's site in which the incident was mentioned and the letter from the company had been posted. When I tried to post my 1.5 cents, the thread was locked. Then I refreshed the page and the posts were gone! I was like WTF! Big brother is choosing what I read. How can I trust all the positive reviews on their website if they delete some of the negative feedback. Even if I could accept their response to the guy, I cannot accept censorship. If I were to learn that Polk deletes negative comments about Polk I would never buy another speaker from them. very sad.

Get over it. You're only losing out. Censorship doesn't apply. It's a private enterprise. Turn on MSNBC for a prime example.

Besides, there are many other forums not controlled by Emotiva with glowing reviews and bad ones.

[MikeC78]

Ya see what Emotiva gear did to me? AND I returned mine. Imagine what savages the people are like who kept their stuff!

That being said, people who like the gear already will not be steered away. To say, one bad review will steer away a ton of people is way too simplistic.

For example, extremely respectable people on this forum have said some no so nice things about Odyssey Audio gear and support. Despite these comments, I still bought my amps. Why? Because the multitude of good reviews squashed the bad.

Let's get this clear, there is more than ONE bad review. Second, not everyone is like you. If I was looking for the first time in purchasing a product from them, and came across that thread over at AVS, I'd probably have to second guess my purchase. There is something said about the ethics about a compay with the response that individual received.

BTW, I'm glad you're happy with their products, kudos to you! I just don't understand why you agree with Emo's email response to that particular customer? I'm sure Emo is quite aware of that thread over at AVS, where is their rebutle if there is more to it than that?

[NewHTguy]

Get over it. You're only losing out. Censorship doesn't apply. It's a private enterprise. Turn on MSNBC for a prime example.

Besides, there are many other forums not controlled by Emotiva with glowing reviews and bad ones.

Solidsqual: Why should I get over it? It's my money. You can give your dollars to whomever you choose. Don't tell me how I should spend mine. And, the MSNBC is an awful analogy because I don't give them a penny.

[SolidSqual]

Let's get this clear, there is more than ONE bad review. Second, not everyone is like you. If I was looking for the first time in purchasing a product from them, and came across that thread over at AVS, I'd probably have to second guess my purchase. There is something said about the ethics about a compay with the response that individual received.

BTW, I'm glad you're happy with their products, kudos to you! I just don't understand why you agree with Emo's email response to that particular customer? I'm sure Emo is quite aware of that thread over at AVS, where is their rebutle if there is more to it than that?

Don't agree with the response as stated. Don't think it's the whole story either.

[SolidSqual]

Solidsqual: Why should I get over it? It's my money. You can give your dollars to whomever you choose. Don't tell me how I should spend mine. And, the MSNBC is an awful analogy because I don't give them a penny.

First, didn't tell you where to spend your money. Nor do I care. I told you to get over censorship . . . it's not a first amendment issue.

Second, if my analogy is bad, then are you saying you have given Emotiva money in spite of the bad reviews?

[MikeC78]

Ok, I must of missed that, I apologize for missing that...

I'm just trying to make some sense out of this, and I figured we would of heard more from Emo if it was untrue. I look at both sides of the plate, until I read a solid response from Emo on the matter, I'll believe otherwise. (that's just me of course);)

[shack]

I think companies like Emotiva tend to over-react to negative criticism. They view the internet and word of mouth to be their lifeline and try TOO HARD to combat anything negative. I am not saying this particular company does so, but it is not uncommon for net companies to have shills on various forums to act like consumers and bash any critical reviews and give glowing reviews of their own.

I would much prefer a company such as Emotive to directly address the customer issues and leave both the criticisim and the reply availble for all to read and then allow the end user to decide. I would have a greater level of respect for them.

I don't pay much attention to fanboy reviews. I also don't pay much attention to bashers. I do however like to see what a real world user thinks about a product...GOOD AND BAD.

[bobman1235]

I was following the relevant thread on Emo's site in which the incident was mentioned and the letter from the company had been posted. When I tried to post my 1.5 cents, the thread was locked. Then I refreshed the page and the posts were gone! I was like WTF! Big brother is choosing what I read. How can I trust all the positive reviews on their website if they delete some of the negative feedback. Even if I could accept their response to the guy, I cannot accept censorship. If I were to learn that Polk deletes negative comments about Polk I would never buy another speaker from them. very sad.

If every negative thread was deleted, I'd agree with at lesat part of you. Where it was just this one, as many others have said, it seems there's more to the story here. Emotiva should probably be more upfront about the issue but there's also something to be said for not feeding the trolls.

And it's some small comapany's web team, not Big Brother, get your literary references straight.

[mmadden28]

Precisely Bob. This so called customer sounds like a flake, an expensive flake at that.

If I returned something to a company because I didn't like it, What would make me think I would like something else of theirs?:confused:

I'd go elsewhere for whatever.

Sorry I don't blame Emotiva for their caution.

So if you don't like a Chevy model for whatever reason, does that mean that there is absolutely no reason that you wouldn't try another Chevy model?

To be fair, the buyer explained that his setup/speakers had changed over time and that he had tried another Emotiva LPA-1 which did work out-so it was then that he decided to try the XPA's. That is why he decided to try again. Does it matter that he made the right decision or not?
What qualifies the buyer as a Flake?


Now just my comments on the situation in general--I'm trying to be neutral here.

It should not matter "why" he decided to return the original amp, nor why he decided to try another of their products. The problem really is the way Emotiva handled it could have been handled better IMO. Or perhaps the way the buyer handled it. Like it's been said many times in the AVS thread--They should have communicated better with him before proactively deciding to cancel the order. If for no other reason than to ensure that he was making a sound decision. In everything I read and in what others have said about his forum activity, there was no reason to suspect that he was a serial return con artist or whatever. If that had been handled better I doubt we would even be having this discussion now.

Emotiva made an assumption that the buyer was buying the new amps for the same purpose or for the same equipment. How many here only have one set of gear? How many keep the same gear forever and don't make any changes to it? (it's a rhetorical question)

There is no requirement when you make a purchase to reveal your setup to a retailer. If I go into Best Buy (strictly an example) and buy something it does not matter whether what I am buying will or will not work well with my setup. If it doesn't I can still return it. Hence the return policy. The return policy is clearly stated. Best Buy does not refuse future business by arbitrarily canceling orders and removing return rights for future purchases.


How would you feel if you went into BB and the salesperson asked you a few questions and said that there is no way that you will like this particular subwoofer and refused to sell it to you but offered to sell you another higher model with no return priviledges because you returned something similar a year or more ago? I doubt most people would stand for that.

The other half of this issue I think is that there is a stated return policy and its touted as one of the very reasons to buy from Emotiva. There is nothing that states you only get one return chance on a particular product type.
Everything I read indicated that this buyer only had one return.
And its not a Full Return policy, the buyer still has to ship the item back at a cost of $50+. So its not like Emotiva has to pay the return shipping on it or anything and it makes it less attractive to continually pay return shipping fees just to play some sort of return game.

I can understand when a company enforces its "reserved rights" when it determines that a privilege is being abused, but it just does not seem to be the case here before they made their decision.

Now as far as why the user was Banned from the EmotivaLounge forums I cannot speculate but that does sound a bid odd. I can understand when a post is deleted for content, but to actually Ban on a potential 1st offense? Now I may not necessarily agree that the buyer's airing of his dirty laundy was the right way to go about it, he was upset about it, and he was then banned from the forum-how would you react?

Will any of this deter me from buying from Emotiva in the future? No
Does this change my view of the value or quality of the gear? No
Do I think that Emotiva will make some changes to the way they handle these situations or CS in the future? I'm gonna say Likely even if its just to get a better awareness of a situation before a decision is made and via internal training.
Was Emotiva right in thier decision to cancel the order and refuse a future return? I will say Yes and No. While I agree that it is their right to do whatever they want, it was not right (IMO) from a good CS perspective based on the way it was handled or how the letter was written.

[SolidSqual]

Ok, I must of missed that, I apologize for missing that...

I'm just trying to make some sense out of this, and I figured we would of heard more from Emo if it was untrue. I look at both sides of the plate, until I read a solid response from Emo on the matter, I'll believe otherwise. (that's just me of course);)

This is a good point. I'm not really sure how a company should react, but some might say reacting in defense is an omission of guilt. Doing nothing makes the complaint ordinary and a matter dealt within the normal course of business.

[WilliamM2]

Emo has already responded in that thread, and the whole story was given. He purchased one product, and returned it. They will not let him buy what he wants now, but will let him buy a more expensive product, with no 30 day gaurantee. No big deal I guess.

What really concerned more was the member that reported having to pay half his warranty repair.

[Early B.]

Emo has already responded in that thread, and the whole story was given.

Can someone post Emo's response here? Thanks.

[NewHTguy]

And it's some small comapany's web team, not Big Brother, get your literary references straight.

Lol, I hope you had something more relevant to say and just forgot to say it.

[NewHTguy]

Second, if my analogy is bad, then are you saying you have given Emotiva money in spite of the bad reviews?

??? I don't do business with MSNBC.

[Kex]

Precisely Bob. This so called customer sounds like a flake, an expensive flake at that. ...
Well, I don't know about this particular customer, but I only posted this link to that thread because of the prior experience voiced by a fellow polkie. The situation is strikingly similar. Nobody called him, or emailed him to any alternative to a blunt refusal, such as perhaps:

"We are pleased to see that, despite a prior unsatisfactory experience with one of our products, you still wish to purchase another product from us. However, please understand that such returns represent a significant cost to us as a small company. Before accepting your order, we therefore wish to specify that must insisit that we will not be able to accept another return on this new order (except in the case of a faulty item, of course, which is unlikely) since you have already had time to evaluate the quality of our merchandise. Please let us know at your earliest convenience if this is acceptable to you, so that we can process your order to your satisfaction. ..."

I have had dealings with the Polkie involved in the other incident. He seems like a totally normal audio nut to me, buying and selling gear from time to time, so I think this could have happened to many of us. In fact, when I had my unhappy experience with the LMC-1 and LPA-1, some suggested I return them and get the next model up also, so perhaps I would have met with the same refusal had I taken that route.

The AVS thread also contains posts from a veteran member over there, who buys and tests a lot of gear all the time. He had a problem removing a faulty module from his MPS-2, which caused some damage, so they charged him for it, rather than honor the warranty, even though he had already bought a extra module (just in case) at full price. Since another module also failed, he has resorted to offering to pay shipping both ways to get spares! He was no flake, AFIK, and still got treated like one.

Other than that, I personally don't have much of an opinion either way about Emotiva. I did not like the products I tried, because they did not compare favorably to a modest harman/kardon AVR147, but I did not condemn all of their products as garbage because of that. I did not have any dealings with customer service very much so I cannot add any direct experience to that aspect of the discussion.

[MikeC78]

I see page #6 and #11 on that thread. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15116790#post15116790

Here is part of it from the President of Emo(Dan Laufman) and a follow up from the complaintant:


So, here are the facts as I understand them:

1. The customer is not "banned" from Emotiva. We removed a thread that was based on a private message from us to him on our board. We felt it was inapproriate then and still do now. The fact that he has posted it on this and other forums is out of our control and makes us question the motive behind it.

I am not banned ANYMORE. I absolutely was banned, and within minutes of when my thread that was removed. When I click log in and enter my password and the response from your server says "UNABLE TO LOG YOU IN AS YOU HAVE BEEN BANNED", that is pretty clear. My motive for posting it here and in av123 is two fold, as I explained to Lonnie. It gave me an outlet for my frustration and also it allowed me to see the responses from others to see what they thought about the situation; a reality check as it were.


2. Lonnie has sent him a personal message apologizing for the misunderstanding and has also tried to explain the thinking behind our original correspondence with him. Please remember, he posted our message to him within just a few minutes of receipt! We did not have the chance to contact him personally to help resolve the situation, or explain in more detail the reasons for our original decision. Clearly, we had a reason for our position and was not due to some evil corporate mindset, nor was he on a "black list".

Yep, he surely did send me a very nice email detailing things to which I have responded. I THINK I copied you on it, but maybe not.

3. I've called personally and left a messaage with him asking him to please call me so that we can help resolve this in a constructive and positive manner. I have not heard from him as of the time of this post.

Yes, you have; and I will be returning your phone call tomorrow if you are available

4. We did not answer him directly yesterday because his response was to take an innocuous private message "public" as expose' of sorts, and we didn't really know what to make if it. We also felt like anything we said would be posted once again, possibly as cannon fodder, and the facts would not be made clear.

It was not a "innocuous private message". It was (to me) an insulting email sent by your COO to a potential customer informing him that his order has been refused. I can also almost assuredly state that any response you sent me would have been posted as I feel I have been pretty fair in my assessment of this situation. I do take offense to the "cannon fodder" comment as I think I have not been mean or malicious in these posts one single bit. What email/comments WOULD you have sent that you would NOT want posted? If anything I think you would have responded FASTER to right what I feel to be some crummy customer service. Even if the email was "Please call us so we can discuss this situation."

I do not really understand why this has taken on a life of its own. We at Emotiva always try to place the customer's satisfaction as our number one priority.

We do not have strings attached to our 30 day return policy. If you purchase a unit from us that you don't like for any reason, just call and ask for an RMA. It will be politely and graciously accepted and approved. No attitude and no "black listing". We'll work even harder in the future to try to make and keep you as a happy and satisfied customer of Emotiva.

This flies contrary to the email I received.

If we have hurt this gentleman's feelings or disrespected him in any manner, then on behalf of myself and the Emotiva staff, I apologize. It was, and is not, our intent to do so.
I have no hurt feelings, but I do believe that you have disrespected me in this particular instance as a potential customer.

In the future I can only urge any customer with an issue, question, or problem of any sort to please contact us directly. You will find a polite, honest, and helpful staff ready to assist you.

Sincerely,
Dan

[Kex]

Can someone post Emo's response here? Thanks.
These are the four posts by Dan Laufman in that thread (he has made six posts in total on AVS since joining in March of 2007).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15115902#post15115902

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15116473&highlight=#post15116473

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15133421#post15133421

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15134335#post15134335

[Early B.]

These are the four posts by Dan Laufman in that thread (he has made six posts in total on AVS since joining in March of 2007).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15115902#post15115902

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15116473&highlight=#post15116473

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15133421#post15133421

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15134335#post15134335

Thanks for the links.

OK, from what I can ascertain, the head of the company reached out in earnest, explained clearly what happened, apologized profusely, and made personal guarantees for top notch customer service. Hell, Emo's president asked the OP to call him, but didn't get a response. What else can he do -- give away free amps to poor audiophiles? Geez.

The OP was not denied the opportunity to make another purchase as many posters erroneously imply. All he had to do was make a phone call to clarify the situation; instead, the OP starts bad mouthing a very credible company. Emotiva apologized and admitted that the situation should have been handled differently, but has the OP apologized yet for posting all of this crap? Has the OP asked AVS to remove the thread?

[WilliamM2]

Thanks for the links.

OK, from what I can ascertain, the head of the company reached out in earnest, explained clearly what happened, apologized profusely, and made personal guarantees for top notch customer service. Hell, Emo's president asked the OP to call him, but didn't get a response. What else can he do -- give away free amps to poor audiophiles? Geez.

The OP was not denied the opportunity to make another purchase as many posters erroneously imply. All he had to do was make a phone call to clarify the situation; instead, the OP starts bad mouthing a very credible company. Emotiva apologized and admitted that the situation should have been handled differently, but has the OP apologized yet for posting all of this crap? Has the OP asked AVS to remove the thread?

You need to read the email he got again. He was denied the opportunity to purchase the XPA-5's he ordered. They did offer to sell him a more expensive amp, but with NO 30 DAY gaurantee. The email did not ask him to call.

And what crap did the OP post? All he posted was a copy of the email, which may have been crap, but it was Emotiva's crap.

If you read the thread, you will see the OP has tried contacting Dan, but has not been able to get a hold of him.

[polkatese]

So, curious, where is Emotiva amps compared to B&K, Rotel, or Sunfire, in terms of AQ?

It looks solidly build, for what it worths, and priced about 1/2 to 1/3 of its brand name competition (as it appears at MSRP).

[Early B.]

You need to read the email he got again. He was denied the opportunity to purchase the XPA-5's he ordered. They did offer to sell him a more expensive amp, but with NO 30 DAY gaurantee. The email did not ask him to call.

And what crap did the OP post? All he posted was a copy of the email, which may have been crap, but it was Emotiva's crap.

If you read the thread, you will see the OP has tried contacting Dan, but has not been able to get a hold of him.

If that's the case, then either Dan or the OP is not being entirely truthful about whats going on due to the contradictory statements you've pointed out. All I'm sayin' is -- Emo has a very reputable customer service history, but we don't know the OP or his intentions. So if presented with a choice, I'd choose the side with the track record.

[WilliamM2]

If that's the case, then either Dan or the OP is not being entirely truthful about whats going on due to the contradictory statements you've pointed out. All I'm sayin' is -- Emo has a very reputable customer service history, but we don't know the OP or his intentions. So if presented with a choice, I'd choose the side with the track record.

Here's a copy of the email they sent him:

Hello Chris,

First off I would like to say thank you for your order. I see from our
records that back in September you ordered a UPA-7 and that it was returned
for a refund because you preferred the sound of your Sunfire amplifier. I
completely understand this as the Sunfire is a very fine amplifier and has a
very distinct sound due to the fact that it is a Class H design.

Now the XPA series is based off of the UPA design and is a short signal path
Class A/B where as the MPS-2 is a dual tracking Class H very much like the
Sunfire. To that end I do not believe that you will be happy with the sound
of the XPA-5 amplifiers since you did not like the UPA. I am sorry to say
that we must decline to fulfill your order for the XPA-5s. However, you
would probably be happy with the MPS as it operates and sounds like the
Sunfire you currently have. To that end if you would like to purchase one,
we would be happy to accept your order but the courtesy trial period of 30
days would be suspended. I regret having to do this, but it is important
for us as a small company to watch our exposure in these matters.

We have voided your order, so you should not have any charges to your credit
card account.

Thank you for your understanding and best regards,


Cathy Laufman
Chief Operations Officer

[lakesailor]

The fact is Emotiva has the right to refuse business. I think it is a stupid position for Emotive to actually do so in this situation; however it is their decision to make.

I would have suggested that Emo. handled this differently had it been my company; however I doubt it will have much of an impact on Emotiva long term.

[nm4710]

Kex,

I'm sorry that your experience with Emotiva didn't turn out the way you wanted. Glad you are happy with your new Nad receiver. That said, I think you (perhaps unknowingly) constantly seem to put out this message that emotiva and its products are not satisfactory.

I'd like to share my experience with Emotiva. I have an HK AVR245, which has more power than the 14x series you were using. I found it did not drive my RTi10s and CSi5 to satisfaction. The highs sounded shrill, the bass was weak and loose. I added an Emotiva LPA-1 external amp through the 245's pre-outs. The difference was night and day. The RTi10s could deliver wall-shaking bass...even at relatively soft volumes on the receiver. They dug down lower than my sub! As for the highs they were less harsh as well. Imaging improved substantially - I could close my eyes and it sounded like the voices were coming out of the TV instead of from each speaker. It was the single biggest upgrade I've made to my system. Frankly, I can't fathom how an external amp didn't make a similar difference to yours...well maybe I can: different speakers, perhaps different volumes, and certainly different rooms. I think if you added an LPA-1 to your receiver (even your NAD now) you would be pleasantly surprised.

As for Emotiva's service, I have no complaints. My LPA-1 was delivered promptly, as expected...and it has functioned well for quite a while. I feel it represents an outstanding value and delivers sound quality equal (if not superior) to much more expensive amps that I've purchased and returned or borrowed from friends. It certainly dispels the "200wpc is necessary for survival" mantra that seems to permeate this forum.

Lastly, as to this issue about the customer service: I think what was done to the original purchaser in that thread was heinous. Blatant disregard for the basic principle of "the customer is always right." The mistake was acknowledged and the CEO is promising better customer service. What else can they do? I guarantee you local audio shops, best buy, circuit city, etc. have more than their fair shair of poor customer service...so how about we cut Emotiva a break? So far you've pointed out only 4 or 5 people who are unhappy with Emotiva's service. That's a miniscule fraction of the thousands of customers Emotiva has made happy over the past few years. Even if Emotiva took away the 30d return policy it would still be one of the best values in audio.

I'm not trying to be an Emotiva fan boy...but I haven't found another company whose bang-for-the-buck even approaches Emotiva's. For many of us looking to purchase our first amplifier or preamp, etc, I think Emotiva is a great destination.

[Kex]

Kex,

I'm sorry that your experience with Emotiva didn't turn out the way you wanted. Glad you are happy with your new Nad receiver. That said, I think you (perhaps unknowingly) constantly seem to put out this message that emotiva and its products are not satisfactory. ...

I think I have been fair:

... I have had dealings with the Polkie involved in the other incident. He seems like a totally normal audio nut to me, buying and selling gear from time to time, so I think this could have happened to many of us. In fact, when I had my unhappy experience with the LMC-1 and LPA-1, some suggested I return them and get the next model up also, so perhaps I would have met with the same refusal had I taken that route.

...

Other than that, I personally don't have much of an opinion either way about Emotiva. I did not like the products I tried, because they did not compare favorably to a modest harman/kardon AVR147, but I did not condemn all of their products as garbage because of that. I did not have any dealings with customer service very much so I cannot add any direct experience to that aspect of the discussion.

Had my intent been to "put out this message that emotiva and its products are not satisfactory", I could have given a lot more detail about why I was not happy, as you know (since we discussed it at length at the time), and how I arrived at my conclusions, but that is not the topic under discussion here.

All companies will make mistakes, and have technical issues at some point in their history. It is normal, IMO, for potential buyers and current owners to want to know about them. It does not mean everything they do is wrong and that they should disappear off the face of the planet.

You have "(perhaps unknowingly)" mirrored the indignation of some Emotiva owners at AVS that anyone could possibly say anything negative about Emotiva and not be a flake, a scammer, or not telling the whole story (and indeed, that threads with such negative information about Emotiva should even be locked). This particular incident caught my attention, because it is almost identical in the precise details to the incident involving our fellow Polkie, which you will also remember, because it was also discussed (albeit very briefly) at the time.

[NewHTguy]

Emotiva may have responded in the AVS forums, but at the present time they have yet to post the previously deleted comments in their own forum:
http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com/index.cgi?board=amps&action=display&thread=2783&page=2
When I read comments in forums, whether they be on Emotiva's site or here or AVS, I do so on the assumption that I am reading ALL posts, not merely the posts that the administrators decide are acceptable. For those readers who don't mind that the admin decides to selectively delete posts, China wants you....