The DIY Super Center Channel Thread

[Early B.]

As many of you already know, Ben and I have been working feverishly to complete the build for a super center channel based on a kit I purchased (more on that later...). I'll have to post more pics and provide my first impressions of the sound this evening, but I thought I'd tease you with a picture of the finished product. I have nicknamed it, the "Rock Box" for three reasons.

Enjoy the pic...

[Conradicles]

Nice..I am thinking about making one myself to match my SDA's...Not quite that big though! Good job guys.

[Early B.]

So why did I decide to build a super center channel? Well, the center channel speaker is the most important speaker in an HT setup because it carries the majority of the sound and all of the dialogue. I realized several years ago that the typical MTM center channel configuration, regardless of brand or cost, was inadequate in conveying the richness of HT. This is particularly important with bass. Most center channels are rated at 50Hz or higher. That’s not good enough.

I believe a good center channel should be able to dip into the 20’s. Here’s why: the value of implementing an HT system is to replicate, to the extent possible, the “you are there” phenomenon. You want to be part of the action. So if a gun shot goes off, it should sound realistic – just like you are in the scene alongside the actors. In other words, the sound should have plenty of impact and be as dynamic as possible. Sorry, folks, but that ain’t gonna happen with a wimpy center channel. The center channel should be the second biggest, baddest speaker in your arsenal (with your subwoofer being #1).

With that said, I wanted to build the mother of all center channels. Of course, no store or retailer had what I was looking for. The closest one was a center channel designed by PBN Montana. (http://www.montanaloudspeakers.com/loludspeakers/spc.html) They build huge speakers and have huge price tags, as well. Fortunately, with a tip from GV#27, I stumbled upon the Dynamic 4CC kit and placed my order.

[Early B.]

There’s another important reason for the value of pursing a DIY project. Consider this: 100% of the cost of this center channel went into materials. Contrast this with a product purchased from a retailer. I’m guessing about 10% of the cost went into materials. The other 90% of your money goes to pay salaries, middlemen, marketing, overhead, profit, etc. So if you pay $300 for a DIY project, it could conceivably retail for 10 times what you paid, or $3,000. Plus, with a DIY design, you are likely to purchase higher quality parts and you have the benefit of customizing it any way you like.

[Early B.]

The designer of the Dynamic 4CC is Jed Kunz, a prolific DIY speaker designer with award winning designs. Check out his website: http://clearwaveloudspeaker.googlepages.com/

As a novice to DIY speakers, Jed was very patient and explained the build process very well via a flurry of e-mails. He seemed genuinely interested in making sure I had a very positive experience with his design. In fact, I’m seriously considering doing more business with Jed in the coming months.

[Upstatemax]

I have that same TV. :cool:

On that note, how much vibration is the TV getting from the CC?

The vibration could kill the bulb in that TV... :(

[Early B.]

OK, so how does it sound? Once Ben and I completed the build, he hooked it up to his system and we were astonished at the sound. It was very powerful and clear with a huge soundstage. We were very impressed and I was anxious to get it home and hook it up to my system. Since the speaker weighs at least 100 pounds, I couldn’t tuck it under my arm and walk out the door. We had to use a hand truck to move the speaker.

When I got it home around midnight last Saturday, my wife was waiting for me. She loved the look of the Rock Box and had no problems with it being naked in the den, although I prefer a grille, particularly for times when children are in the house. They won’t be able to resist touching the shiny midranges, phase plugs, and Vifa nipple.

Anyway, we popped in the demo DVD, then a music CD. Let’s address music first. We put on Sarah McLachlan’s live acoustic CD and I had to put my ear against the front speakers a couple of times to make sure they were not on. In spite of the center channel being horizontally placed and near the floor, the sound was as good as, if not better than, my 2-channel system. The soundstage, detail, and tonal quality were the best I have heard in my home. Period. That’s with one speaker with music being played on a DVD player and powered by a multi-channel amp!!!

Of course, many of you will doubt what I’m saying, but I don’t care. I’m telling you what I heard. The music was seamless and it was surrounded by a breath of fresh air. I heard it, Ben heard it, and my wife heard it. All of us agreed that this center channel was incredibly good. In fact, we were so excited that we called Jed and thanked him personally for designing such a great speaker. In addition, I’m entertaining the possibility of purchasing the Dynamic 4T kit and build the floor standers to complement the center channel. That’s how good it sounded.

OK, so how does it sound with HT? We watched the Dark Knight last night and let me tell you – it was, by far, the best HT experience we’ve heard (in spite of the movie just being OK and too damn long). I know I’m not going to do justice in trying to explain the improvement in sound, but I’ll try. Let’s begin with the front soundstage. If you go into a good movie theater, you are surrounded by speakers. However, in your home you have 2 or 5 or 7 speakers. That’s fine, but ideally you would probably want a wall of speakers all around you, but especially in the front because most of the sound is coming from in front of you. The value of a 4-foot long center channel speaker is its ability to project a wider sound, thus making the front stage appear as one speaker, not three. This provides a greater sense of the “you are there” thing I talked about earlier.

More importantly, the dynamics and impact are off the charts. In the past, I always felt that my many HT configurations suffered from anemia. The main source of the problem was the wimpy MTM center channel. Listen carefully folks – the center channel is much more important than most people realize. Let me offer an analogy. When you print in color on your inkjet printer, the black ink is used to create many of the colors. If you remove the black ink cartridge and print in color, the colors will not be correct. Similarly, a center channel anchors the sound – it aids in the production of sound from all of your speakers. For instance, when the rear speakers fire, they often get assistance from the center channel. So when the Rock Box was introduced, it not only improved the sound coming from the center, but the entire system has been greatly enhanced. My system doesn’t sound like it’s attempting to emulate the movie theater experience anymore. It IS the experience.

[Early B.]

I have that same TV. :cool:

On that note, how much vibration is the TV getting from the CC?

The vibration could kill the bulb in that TV... :(

A good speaker cabinet is designed NOT to vibrate.

[Early B.]

I will post a few pics of the build process later today...

[zingo]

That think looks amazing, and I'm sure it sounds even better! The construction looks pro and it makes the perfect TV stand. :D

[Early B.]

As you may know, I’m a huge proponent of bass all over the place. What’s missing in most HT systems is some serious bass from the center channel. One of the main reasons I wanted to build a bigger center channel is to get more bass. In this case, the center channel is set to SMALL and crossed over at 60 Hz (it’s the lowest setting on my pre/pro for the center channel). I wanted to set the center channel to LARGE, but when I do, for some reason the pre/pro automatically sets the surrounds to LARGE, but I don’t want to do that, hence the SMALL setting for the center channel, at least for now. Emotiva will unveil its new UMC-1 pre/pro soon so hopefully I’ll be able extract even more bass from the Rock Box than I’m already getting.

[Upstatemax]

A good speaker cabinet is designed NOT to vibrate.


True, but that does not mean it's not getting ANY vibration from the speaker. I have worked with those bulbs for years, they are VERY sensitive to vibrations. Plus when they go, it's a solid $200-250 to replace the bulb...

Just a friendly heads up. ;)

[rdb2001]

It looks great and at the price you built it at is amazing. Glad things turned out good.

[Early B.]

I wanted to take a moment to personally thank Ben for volunteering his time and expertise to this project. We spent an entire Saturday (12 hours actually) building the Rock Box. He was just as excited as I was to get started on the project, and we both shared in the exhilaration of its completion. Our jaws dropped simultaneously the first time we heard it. There are really cool people on this forum, and Ben is a great Polkie and a great person.

[Early B.]

True, but that does not mean it's not getting ANY vibration from the speaker. I have worked with those bulbs for years, they are VERY sensitive to vibrations. Plus when they go, it's a solid $200-250 to replace the bulb...

Just a friendly heads up. ;)

Thanks, but the TV should fear my subwoofers more than the center channel 'cause they cause the whole room to vibrate.:eek:

FWIW -- I've also had this TV resting atop a couple of previous, lesser built center channels for the past 2 years with no problems.

[mmadden28]

Awesome job guys!! Perhaps that may be my next DIY project. Looking forward to the build pics.

Any timbre matching concerns?

[ben62670]

Well I would like to thank Brad for this experience, and it was a pleasure meeting his lovely wife. I was going to ask if she had a sister, but I didn’t want to get tossed out on my ear:D I went over to his house last night to do a little finishing, and install a two circuit dedicated outlet for him. This speaker when just running as a center presents a huge sound stage. Like Brad said it sounded like the floor standers were on. The first music selections were live female recordings so it did not contain any stereo information. Even running just a DVD player as the source through EMO gear it sounds fantastic. It seriously gave me goose bumps. The underling detail this speaker was able to reproduce was uncanny. I questioned the build considering that it was a kit from some guy off the internet, but after hearing it I was completely floored. There is no audible transition from driver to driver. It is so seamless that you would not believe it is a 3 way. Brad has got to let his VMPS's go:eek:, and get the kit for the floor standers. I have heard a lot of gear in different HiFi shops from entry on up. What this speaker did was awe inspiring. I knew I liked the Vifa ring radiator, but was unsure about titanium coned mids, and the Dayton RS woofers. Fears are relieved. Before Brad took it home we hooked it up to my system here, and the bass was phenomenal. Brad thought for sure that one of my SDA's was on:D My hats off to the designer of this speaker:)
Ben

[Early B.]

The first music selections were live female recordings so it did not contain any stereo information.

BTW, Ben -- the second female recording we listened to was not live. It only appeard to be so. It takes a damn fine speaker can pull a trick like that. :D

[treitz3]

Glad to hear that you like it Brad. As for upgrading the mains? You can't do that. Remember, you are done with audio and have been. Again.....

........and again..........

........and again..........

........and again..........

........and again..........

........and again..........

:eek: :p :D

[Doug_D]

I just wanted to chime in and say that I built the 4T's and they are simply amazing :) I will be adding the 4C center and 1S surrounds as well as a sub in Jan. I will also be adding a new amp or 2 and a UMC-1 to hold me over until the XMC-1 comes out. I love Emotiva and I love Jed's speakers this is the second design of his I've built. Here is a picture of my speakers.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c30/Dougie085/Dynamic%204T/P1010704.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c30/Dougie085/Dynamic%204T/P1010701.jpg

[treitz3]

Welcome to CP! Nice.

[Early B.]

Glad to hear that you like it Brad. As for upgrading the mains? You can't do that. Remember, you are done with audio and have been. Again.....

........and again..........

........and again..........

........and again..........

........and again..........

........and again..........

:eek: :p :D

To be honest, I have mixed feelings. There's no way in hell I was going to consider trading out my wonderful VMPS speakers anytime soon, but the improvement is so compelling that I may be "forced" to do it. Even my wife wants me to trade them in favor of the DIYs, and she has never expressed that level of interest in my speaker upgrades.:cool:

[Face]

So when are you going to stop messing around and build the matching mains?

EDIT: I didn't see the above post.

[Early B.]

I just wanted to chime in and say that I built the 4T's and they are simply amazing :) I will be adding the 4C center and 1S surrounds as well as a sub in Jan. I will also be adding a new amp or 2 and a UMC-1 to hold me over until the XMC-1 comes out. I love Emotiva and I love Jed's speakers this is the second design of his I've built. Here is a picture of my speakers.

Sweeeetttt!!! Gotta love those speakers, dude. Thanks for posting.

I'm into Emotiva gear, as well. Great bang for buck. Is that an XPA-3 on your shelf?

[Doug_D]

Yes I currently have an XPA-3 and plan on adding either the XPA-1's or an XPA-2 depending on how much cash I have lol. The speakers are simply amazing best speakers I've heard for sure. I've heard a few other DIY designs as well and these easily top them. I'm sure I'd have to spend many thousands to get something close to these in a commercial design. Everything you said about the center is the same way I feel with the towers. They are extremely well balanced and the midrange is one of my favorite parts of these. I built Jed's Lineup Maxx last time and I loved the midrange in them. The tweeter was pretty good but I always wanted more as far as the woofers went. That's when I talked to Jed about these and they certainly fill all my needs! Spectacular speaker to say the least.

[Early B.]

Yes I currently have an XPA-3 and plan on adding either the XPA-1's or an XPA-2 depending on how much cash I have lol. The speakers are simply amazing best speakers I've heard for sure. I've heard a few other DIY designs as well and these easily top them. I'm sure I'd have to spend many thousands to get something close to these in a commercial design. Everything you said about the center is the same way I feel with the towers. They are extremely well balanced and the midrange is one of my favorite parts of these. I built Jed's Lineup Maxx last time and I loved the midrange in them. The tweeter was pretty good but I always wanted more as far as the woofers went. That's when I talked to Jed about these and they certainly fill all my needs! Spectacular speaker to say the least.


Man, I love to hear your impressions of these speakers once you add the center channel. You said next month, right?

I also noticed that you built your tower speakers using a curved cabinet design. Did you spec the cabinet yourself or did jed provide the plans for it?

[Doug_D]

I did the cabinet design my self. Jed has talked about adding plans or a finished speaker option for the curved side but hasn't really said much on it? I know the 1S surrounds are going to be in the parts express curved MTM cabinets. I will be ordering all the parts for the Center and Surrounds and what not sometime in Feb when tax returns come.

More on the cabinets, I started a design in Solid Works (cad program) so that I could have the majority of the parts CNC'd but I wasn't the greatest with Solid Works so a friend from another forum ended up helping me out with it. There is a build thread of my speakers on Jed's forum if you care to look. It was a bit of work but they turned out great. They will eventually be stained and clear coated.

[Doug_D]

I should also mention my cabinets are quite a bit larger then Jed's. Jed's are something like 50 liters while with mine I wanted to extract the most low end I could out of it so they are something like 80 liters. So mine will play a good bit lower then Jed's cabinet design. Not that Jed's are any slouch in the bass department I'm sure they are still extremely impressive as I'm sure you know from the center build. My center will be the standard enclosure as I don't feel like doing another curved thing haha!

[Early B.]

I should also mention my cabinets are quite a bit larger then Jed's. Jed's are something like 50 liters while with mine I wanted to extract the most low end I could out of it so they are something like 80 liters. So mine will play a good bit lower then Jed's cabinet design.

I find it interesting that you decided to make the cabinets larger, as well. If I were going to build the 4T's, I'd make the cabs larger -- at least 12 inches wide. I like the curved design, too.

I almost made the Rock Box 12" high, but decided against it after consulting with Jed.

[Early B.]

The Rock Box is based on the Dynamic 4CC kit from Jed Kunz of Clearwave Loudspeaker. I made one approved modification – the original design is 42” in length but the Rock Box is 48”. I wanted to make it longer to fit the length of my TV and to get more bass. This brought the box down a bit to 36 Hz and, of course, with room gain we’re looking at the very low 30’s. The dimensions are approximately 48”l x 16”d x 9”h.

When I first received the kit, I was struck by the sheer size of the crossover. The crossover weighs in at a beefy 4.2 pounds and is built point-to-point on a 5.5” x 9” MDF board. (By the way, the drivers, crossover and other parts weigh about 35 pounds, which is the entire weight of a typical center channel speaker. The Rock Box probably tips the scales at around 100 pounds.) The crossover uses Dayton caps. Two 2” ports are on the back along with a set of high quality binding posts that Ben provided.

We decided to finish the speaker with Formica instead of paint or wood veneer in order to save time and to make it more durable. It’s gotta be able to bear the brunt of a TV, and paint or veneer would be more vulnerable to dings and scratches. The Formica looks like granite, hence the name “Rock Box.” We also cut another corner by not flush mounting the drivers. In addition, we did not build a grille because the Rock Box looks sexy enough without it. Oh, I almost forgot – we placed the crossover behind one of the woofers instead of the sealed enclosure behind the tweeter/midranges where it was supposed to go in order to access it once the cabinet was sealed. Luckily, this was a good move because we needed to make a minor tweak to the crossover after the enclosure was assembled.

The cabinet is constructed of ¾” MDF with a 1.5” baffle. There are four braces. As always, the challenge is making straight cuts and getting everything to fit perfectly. Of course, having all of the necessary tools is important, too, and Ben and I had most of what we needed. One of the mistakes I made in the assembly is attaching the Sonic Barrier before the cuts were made for the drivers. The sawdust got all over the Sonic Barrier and we had to spend a few minutes using a vacuum cleaner to suck out as much sawdust as we could. Please, wear a mask if you’re gonna cut MDF. The pics show Ben's car showered with sawdust.

Once the Rock Box was maneuvered into position, I placed a set of isolation pucks underneath it so it wouldn’t rest directly on the fireplace hearth.

[clearwave]

we placed the crossover behind one of the woofers instead of the sealed enclosure behind the tweeter/midranges where it was supposed to go in order to access it once the cabinet was sealed. Luckily, this was a good move because we needed to make a minor tweak to the crossover after the enclosure was assembled.



Hi, I'm the owner of CLD, and just thought I would chime in to say thank you for the wonderful review!

Now, about that sealed enclosure you mention in your post in the quote above. That section is actually not sealed. The partitions should actually have a cutout to make a passage that leads from each woofer section behind the completely sealed midrange chamber. I heavily stuffed that area with poly fill and you can place the crossover there if you want and still have access to it. This adds a few extra liters to the woofer section as well. I just wanted to clarify the construction, just in case anyone else is wondering. Putting the crossover where you did is a smart move though.

Great build!

Regards,

Jed
Clearwave L. D.

[Early B.]

Hi, I'm the owner of CLD, and just thought I would chime in to say thank you for the wonderful review!

Now, about that sealed enclosure you mention in your post in the quote above. That section is actually not sealed. The partitions should actually have a cutout to make a passage that leads from each woofer section behind the completely sealed midrange chamber. I heavily stuffed that area with poly fill and you can place the crossover there if you want and still have access to it. This adds a few extra liters to the woofer section as well. I just wanted to clarify the construction, just in case anyone else is wondering. Putting the crossover where you did is a smart move though.

Great build!

Regards,

Jed
Clearwave L. D.


Jed --

Thanks for the clarification.

What types of designs are you working on now?

[clearwave]

Jed --

Thanks for the clarification.

What types of designs are you working on now?

I'm finishing up my Dayton RS270s, SB Acoustics 5", Vifa XT25 3 way this week. I've been listening to it for awhile now, and it sounds really great for $599 (basic kit with drivers and crossovers). I've got a "matching" MTM using the SB Acoustics 5" and XT25 that should work really well for surrounds. Then of course there is the Dynamic 1S that needs to get finished. I'll use the PE .75ft3 enclosure for that. It'll also make it less of a hassle for people who want to try out one of my designs without having to build enclosures.

Then there is the custom TMM speaker I'm working on for customer that will use the SB Acoustics 7" drivers and the Seas DXT waveguide tweeter. I'm also going to design a very slim tower using multiple 5-6" drivers for people not wanting a speaker with a huge footprint, but want all the dynamics in a small package. So to say I have a lot to do the next few months would be putting it mildly. The responses I've received about the Dynamic Series are definitely helping me stay very busy as well!

Jed

[GV#27]

Nice work guys, I bet it does sound good.I'm guessing you could not buy anything near that performance wise for under $2G's. I agree 100% with you Brad on the importance of having a top notch CC,I recently went from an MTM to a WMTW and it was well worth the effort.

Adding a pair of 4t's would be sweet.

[ben62670]

Nice work guys, I bet it does sound good.I'm guessing you could not buy anything near that performance wise for under $2G's. I agree 100% with you Brad on the importance of having a top notch CC,I recently went from an MTM to a WMTW and it was well worth the effort.

Adding a pair of 4t's would be sweet.

Thanks. I don't really see you being able to find a pair of mains that would compete with Zed's design under $4,000. I have been to many HiFi shops, and when I come home I am happy with my system. After hearing these I want a set;) It's not going to happen for a long time, but I can invite myself over to Brad's house when he builds the mains:D
Ben

[Doug_D]

You also wouldn't want to change the baffle width on the 4T's. Maybe you were referring to the part that's bowed out where it curves? But the front baffle should stay 8" wide as that's how the speakers were measured and the crossover was designed.

[Doug_D]

Would be a minimum of 4k if you ask me.... Possibly higher even.

[Early B.]

You also wouldn't want to change the baffle width on the 4T's. Maybe you were referring to the part that's bowed out where it curves? But the front baffle should stay 8" wide as that's how the speakers were measured and the crossover was designed.

I hear ya, and the 4CC center channel was measured the same way, but my TV greatly extends the front baffle.:eek::D:eek:

Of course, when it comes to speaker design, there's always some arrogant prick out there who thinks he can improve on the original design, no matter how little I, errrr, I meant "they" know about the subject.;)

[Doug_D]

Deeper is always ok :) Mine are like 18" deep 49.5" tall and 8" wide.

[GV#27]

Doug your 4T's look spectacular.

[Midnite Mick]

delete...double post

[Midnite Mick]

Those are awesome guys. You guys do great work. I built speakers before they definitely did not look that good.

The only thing I question is whether that vifa tweeter is too laid back and soft for home theatre. Atleast that is what I thought of the lsi15's I used to own.

Mike

[Doug_D]

I find the XT25 to be very nicely detailed without being harsh at all. I don't think your missing anything with it over other tweeters. I've heard the Dayton RS28-A which is a metal dome tweeter and I find that it doesn't have that sparkle or whatever you want to call it on the top end. The Vifa Ring Radiator certainly has a sparkle and is amazingly good on the top end. Tons of oomph in there honestly great tweeter for anything!

[Early B.]

The only thing I question is whether that vifa tweeter is too laid back and soft for home theatre. Atleast that is what I thought of the lsi15's I used to own.

Perhaps someone else can chime in, but Vifa makes/made several iterations of the ring radiator tweeter, so the 4T/4CC may not use the same tweeter as the Lsi series.

[Doug_D]

That is true the one in the Dynamic series is actually a newer double magnet one. I'm not sure what the LSi's used though. But you can read my previous post haha.

[Early B.]

Oops. I forgot to post pics of the crossover by itself...

[Face]

The LSiC and LSi9 both use a single magnet Vifa, I assume the rest of the LSi line is the same configuration. As for them being too laid back, that's more to do with the crossover design. But overall, they are very smooth sounding tweets.

[sdschwendener]

fascinates me. I live in an apartment building. If only I had:
1) The tools
2) The space
3) The money
4) The amps

I would go for these in a heartbeat.

Oh what the future holds!!

[clearwave]

Early B.,

In your build pictures I noticed there is no recess opening around the back of the midrange cones, rather the hole for the midrange is a straight cut through the baffle. This will "choke" the mids a bit and they may sound a bit more closed in than they could sound. My recommendation is to take a rasp and bevel a 45 degree angle to carve away some of the material in the straight cut opening, to allow the mids to breath more.

In my build, I have a 2 layered baffle. The first baffle the opening for the midrange is cut the same size as the full diameter of the driver, which is 4 15/15", and then the next layer of the baffle, which is also 3/4" thick, is cut so the driver is flush mounted. The 2 layers thus create enough room around the midrange to allow it to breath. It's not a 45 degree cut like I mention in the paragraph above, but either way is effective.

Maybe Doug_D can show a picture of what I mean? I made this suggestion to him as well.

Jed

[GV#27]

This will "choke" the mids a bit and they may sound a bit more closed in than they could sound. My recommendation is to take a rasp and bevel a 45 degree angle to carve away some of the material in the straight cut opening, to allow the mids to breath more.
Good advice.

I used a TB W5-704D as the mid in my center and noticed that while it has a nice cast basket it did appear to restrict airflow somewhat.Therefore I chamfered the inner edge to with a 45 degree router bit.It's too late to use the router on Early's but maybe a Dremel with a heavy grit sanding wheel would work.

[GV#27]

Like this.

[Doug_D]

I actually used a jig saw angled at 45 degrees to do mine. I touched it up a bit with a rasp though.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c30/Dougie085/Dynamic%204T/P1010667.jpg

[ben62670]

Guys the amount the cones move will not impede any sort of airflow from the mids. I don't know what the XO points are(I would like to), but I know the cones are barely moving;)
Ben

[Doug_D]

It's more the rear soundwave doesn't have anywhere to go. It should be going into the back where the acoustic foam is so that it absorbs it. If the cabinet is block it in then it's probably bouncing and radiating right back into the mid which can cause issues. And regardless the mids probably move more air then you'd think :)

[Early B.]

Early B.,

In your build pictures I noticed there is no recess opening around the back of the midrange cones, rather the hole for the midrange is a straight cut through the baffle. This will "choke" the mids a bit and they may sound a bit more closed in than they could sound. My recommendation is to take a rasp and bevel a 45 degree angle to carve away some of the material in the straight cut opening, to allow the mids to breath more.

In my build, I have a 2 layered baffle. The first baffle the opening for the midrange is cut the same size as the full diameter of the driver, which is 4 15/15", and then the next layer of the baffle, which is also 3/4" thick, is cut so the driver is flush mounted. The 2 layers thus create enough room around the midrange to allow it to breath. It's not a 45 degree cut like I mention in the paragraph above, but either way is effective.

Maybe Doug_D can show a picture of what I mean? I made this suggestion to him as well.

Jed


Thanks for looking out. Since I have a Dremel, I'll take GV's advice and chamfer the inner edges of the midrange drivers.

[clearwave]

If there is anyone sitting on the fence (ready to jump on a deal), I'm running a free shipping special (http://clearwaveloudspeaker.googlepages.com) on the kits through Dec 25.

[Early B.]

If there is anyone sitting on the fence (ready to jump on a deal), I'm running a free shipping special (http://clearwaveloudspeaker.googlepages.com) on the kits through Dec 25.

Get off the 'effing fence, you wussies. Get yourself some manly speakers. Go big or get another hobby -- may I suggest macrame? It's good for girlymen.

[mmadden28]

One thing that sorta has me on the fence (aside from potential lethal backlash from my wife if I spend more money) is how well will these match up with RTi12's as a center? I have a CSiA6 now. Will it be timbre matched/compatible?

How much does the final product weigh?

I have plenty of spce for it in my current entertainment center, and will likely place it on a shelf of sorts below the screen in my ded. HT (when it gets done).

Man doesn't that CSiA6 look small up there?

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk226/mmadden28/PolkAudio%20Forum/CIMG6291.jpg (this is an older pic, stuffs has changed ;))

[Face]

One thing that sorta has me on the fence (aside from potential lethal backlash from my wife if I spend more money) is how well will these match up with RTi12's as a center? I have a CSiA6 now. Will it be timbre matched/compatible?

How much does the final product weigh?

I have plenty of spce for it in my current entertainment center, and will likely place it on a shelf of sorts below the screen in my ded. HT (when it gets done).

Man doesn't that CSiA6 look small up there?

It would probably come closer to timbre matching those 9's.


Get off the 'effing fence, you wussies. Get yourself some manly speakers. Go big or get another hobby -- may I suggest macrame? It's good for girlymen.
So are you replacing your mains?

[Doug_D]

They would probably work ok with your Polks although after hearing the center I must warn you there may be a very real chance you're going to want to upgrade your mains lol :)

[mmadden28]

They would probably work ok with your Polks although after hearing the center I must warn you there may be a very real chance you're going to want to upgrade your mains lol :)

Upgrade? Who me? Nah-it'll never happen :rolleyes:;)

[Early B.]

One thing that sorta has me on the fence (aside from potential lethal backlash from my wife if I spend more money) is how well will these match up with RTi12's as a center? I have a CSiA6 now. Will it be timbre matched/compatible?

How much does the final product weigh?

mmadden -- timbre matching should be the least of your concerns for HT. (I'm not sure about music in surround sound, but that sucks anyway.) I have had probably 15 or 20 different HT setups, most of which were not timbre matched and it doesn't make much difference. Just calibrate with an SPL meter and you're done.

I'm guessing the final product weighs 80 - 100 lbs.

[mmadden28]

Well (as being discussed in another thread), I think I'm going to leave my RTi setup (as pictured) since it works, and just create a new HT rig for the new dedicated HT/Media room. I already have some LSi9's for my 2 channel, so I think I might get some LSiFX's and build this beast for a 5.1 setup.
Now I just have to figure out what to use for a new AVR and Amps. Oh boy.
It will be a combo HT and 2 channel/Multi Channel rig.

As far as laminate for the 4CC, I guess I could either try to match the LSi9's with some kind of Cherry laminate or keep it more budget and just make it all black and disappear like the LSiC.
So it won't go in the entertainment center as pictured above, but on a ~24" stand just below a 106" 16:9 screen.
At ~24" Would I need to tilt it? Or leave it flat?
What kind of power does the 4CC like?

[Doug_D]

Well thats the nifty thing about the Dynamic series! They can take all kinds of power, but on the flip side they are very efficient speakers and don't require tons of power! Of course you're going to get the best dynamics out of them with some good solid power like the XPA series from Emotiva :)

[Early B.]

Well (as being discussed in another thread), I think I'm going to leave my RTi setup (as pictured) since it works, and just create a new HT rig for the new dedicated HT/Media room. I already have some LSi9's for my 2 channel, so I think I might get some LSiFX's and build this beast for a 5.1 setup.
Now I just have to figure out what to use for a new AVR and Amps. Oh boy.
It will be a combo HT and 2 channel/Multi Channel rig.

As far as laminate for the 4CC, I guess I could either try to match the LSi9's with some kind of Cherry laminate or keep it more budget and just make it all black and disappear like the LSiC.
So it won't go in the entertainment center as pictured above, but on a ~24" stand just below a 106" 16:9 screen.
At ~24" Would I need to tilt it? Or leave it flat?
What kind of power does the 4CC like?

Mmaden -- power the new HT setup with your existing XPA-5. Also, forget about the LsiFX's and go with the matching surrounds of the Dynamic series. It will save you a few bucks and the Dynamic will sound better.

[mmadden28]

Mmaden -- power the new HT setup with your existing XPA-5. Also, forget about the LsiFX's and go with the matching surrounds of the Dynamic series. It will save you a few bucks and the Dynamic will sound better.

Hmm. I'll have to consider that-I might spring for another XPA-5 while on sale-I think I want to keep the old setup as is. (ha-'old' ;) now that's funny right there). I could just use other LSi9's I have as surrounds for now until I can build the 1s's.

Holy crap what the heck just happened here :confused:
Let me put the new HT stuff on the backburner here for a moment. I'm getting too far ahead of myself. :o I think what I'll do is go for the 4CC and put it in the mix in my current HT rig (in place of the CSiA6) to get a better feel for the changes since I'm accustomed to how it sounds now. Yeah-That's what I'll do. ;)

[janmike]

desert333 reported.

[clearwave]

The 1S is coming. Sorry for the delay but I'm trying to get a collaboration effort going with a local cabinet maker. I should have the drivers loaded in the test cabinet by the end of next week. He'll be making any cabinets for those of you that lack the carpentry skills. I'll post some pics by the end of next week. Happy Holidays everyone!

[TouchOfEvil]

The 1S is coming. Sorry for the delay but I'm trying to get a collaboration effort going with a local cabinet maker. I should have the drivers loaded in the test cabinet by the end of next week. He'll be making any cabinets for those of you that lack the carpentry skills. I'll post some pics by the end of next week. Happy Holidays everyone!

This was what i was wondering about while i read. I would love to try some stuff out but making these enclosures would be hard for me to do "not having any of the tools to do so.":(

[mmadden28]

...but making these enclosures would be hard for me to do "not having any of the tools to do so.":(

Men need tools.
Go get you some. grunt :cool:

That reminds me of something funny... I was in Home Depot the other day (or was it Lowe's ah doesn't matter), with my 3 and 5 y/o sons. We were in the power tool section. My 3 y/o brought a tape measure to my 5 y/o and told him that we should get it for Mommy for Christmas. My 5 y/o said "No... remember Daddy gets the tools, Mommy gets beautiful things. My 3 y/o just so "Oh, right" and then handed it to me. :cool::D

[ben62670]

This was what i was wondering about while i read. I would love to try some stuff out but making these enclosures would be hard for me to do "not having any of the tools to do so.":(

Swing over for a weekend:)

[clearwave]

This was what i was wondering about while i read. I would love to try some stuff out but making these enclosures would be hard for me to do "not having any of the tools to do so.":(

A few options for folks in this position:

1.) Sub out the cabinets to a local cabinet builder.
2.) Buy cabinets from me and I ship them to you.
3.) There are other sources for cabinets like Lee Taylor, Elemental Designs, etc.

I'm working on setting up a dealer near NYC that will be responsible for the finished speakers. Turnkey... the 4T are going to retail for $3100.00. You save big $$$ DIY.

[Early B.]

I'm working on setting up a dealer near NYC that will be responsible for the finished speakers. Turnkey... the 4T are going to retail for $3100.00. You save big $$$ DIY.

Actually, that's a great deal in its price range. Should I assume that the center channel will sell for about half that price or $1,500? Based on other comparable center channels on the market, I think the Dynamic 4CC should retail for $2,500.

FWIW, y'all -- I spent less than $700 to build mine. Compare this to any center channel that retails for about $700 and the value of DIY becomes obvious.


BTW, Jed -- if you plan to retail the Dynamic 4T's, I'd suggest going with a different name for them. A different name will also differentiate them from the DIY option (unless, of course, you plan to yank the DIY 4T's once they hit the retail market. You should, IMO.)

[clearwave]

Actually, that's a great deal in its price range. Should I assume that the center channel will sell for about half that price or $1,500? Based on other comparable center channels on the market, I think the Dynamic 4CC should retail for $2,500.

FWIW, y'all -- I spent less than $700 to build mine. Compare this to any center channel that retails for about $700 and the value of DIY becomes obvious.


BTW, Jed -- if you plan to retail the Dynamic 4T's, I'd suggest going with a different name for them. A different name will also differentiate them from the DIY option (unless, of course, you plan to yank the DIY 4T's once they hit the retail market. You should, IMO.)


I've got to wait and see what happens this next month with the retail thing. The 4CC will be $1550 all made up in nice veneer. More than likely the series will get a rename and a curved cabinet or some angles to make them a bit more sculptural and exclusive.

My roots are in DIY, so it's hard for me to give that part up. Also, about the pricing, I want to keep these competitive in the retail market... really competitive. Especially in this economy and starting up as a relatively unknown entity in an over saturated market.