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c_corie
12-19-2008, 01:35 PM
What brand/model speaker has the most realistic "in the room with you" sound? Also does a speaker that sounds "forward" translate into natural? I guess I would say B&Ws especially the 700 and 800 series sound natural, but they're wicked expensive. How are the new RTA series?

Also are there any not well know speakers that sound very real? I listened to the Magnepans and didn't really like them. So maybe I want a forward sound as opposed to truly natural?

Also I don't know if any of you know/like Porcupine Tree, but their CD "Recordings" has an amazing vibe of being there in the room. Thats the CD I test most speakers with, not because it sounds AMAZING, (it sounds good) but it has a sense of space too it.

skipf
12-19-2008, 01:56 PM
Carver ALS Platinums.

McLoki
12-19-2008, 02:05 PM
Best I have heard are Wilson Audio - Watt Puppies (http://www.wilsonaudio.com/product/watt_puppy_8/). (the ones I heard were series 8)

I personally find them rather ugly, but damn do they sound awesome. I WILL one day own a pair. I also listened to the Wilson Audio - Maxx speaker (at over twice the cost of the Watt Puppy) and liked the watt puppies more.

Michael

Face
12-19-2008, 02:19 PM
The B&W's I've heard I wouldn't consider natural sounding, and since you like B&W's, you like forward. Other speakers that may spark your interest are Polk RTiA/RTi and newer KEF's.

c_corie
12-19-2008, 02:30 PM
So i have Polk Monitor 11s, they're good just too laid back sounding? And not enough depth too the sound maybe? They're nice esp for the price I paid ($20-goodwill blown fuses, haha) but not AMAZING. Also I rediscovered Panasonic/Technics T200 speakes which are really not that bad.

Also do slimmer speakers/smaller drivers appear to have a "bigger sound" or is it the reverse. Because the Monitor 11s I have are physically wide but they don't sound "huge." But those cheap Technics which have like dual 5inch woofers and are slim, seem to sound much more....big at least given their comparative size. Any ideas?

Face
12-19-2008, 02:36 PM
A crossover rebuild would bring them back to life.

lakesailor
12-19-2008, 02:41 PM
Personally I think every speaker to a degree will impart a sonic signature with respect to sound re-production. Ultimately “most natural” will be in the ears of the beholder. I think also to a degree it will depend upon what type of music you listen to as well.

For example if you are heavily into rock; odds are you will not find listening to panels to be a “natural;” experience; however if you are into acoustical strings you would have a different perspective.

For me the enjoyment is the journey of exploring different types of sound from different speakers.

treitz3
12-19-2008, 03:50 PM
Even if you have the ever elusive "most natural sounding" speaker [if you can even find it, seeing how that's a subjective term], the room can take a great speaker and either make it shine or sound like crap. The room is part of the reproduction process and is a very important part of the equation.

BottomFeeder
12-19-2008, 04:04 PM
Even if you have the ever elusive "most natural sounding" speaker [if you can even find it, seeing how that's a subjective term], the room can take a great speaker and either make it shine or sound like crap. The room is part of the reproduction process and is a very important part of the equation.

I sooo wish you weren't right here, but I've recently discovered just how true this is. A friend of mine & I rearranged my furniture in order to give my speakers a lot more breathing room & viola! WOW! My speakers sounded waaaaay better than ever before!

Wish I could keep the room the way we made it, but WAF prevents me from doing so...Rats.

NJPOLKER
12-19-2008, 05:52 PM
Mine

mhardy6647
12-19-2008, 06:32 PM
Really, truly natural? Like real life natural?
Quad electrostatics. Vintage or new, take your choice. And they're not even scarily expensive.

George Grand
12-19-2008, 07:52 PM
Really, truly natural? Like real life natural?
Quad electrostatics. Vintage or new, take your choice. And they're not even scarily expensive.

Yeah, real life natural without the real life low-end.

NEXT!

beardog03
12-19-2008, 07:56 PM
I have been reading about Totems, and I read that they disappear, and are very natural sounding

I have heard some B&W 802`s and really liked them, but big $$....but again what isn`t ?!!

c_corie
12-19-2008, 07:59 PM
so i just hooked the monitor 11's back up and they sound a lot more detailed and clearer and less muddy, BUT they don't seem to have the depth of those crappy technics T200 speakers. makes no freakin sense to me. or maybe it's not depth maybe the T200 are so upfront that anything that isnt up front in the mix has depth?

BottomFeeder
12-19-2008, 08:36 PM
I like NJPOLKER's answer: "Mine"

Makes sense to say that. Sometimes I don't even want to hear anyone else's system / speakers because then I might like mine less.

So, that's my answer too: mine!

ben62670
12-19-2008, 08:45 PM
so i just hooked the monitor 11's back up and they sound a lot more detailed and clearer and less muddy, BUT they don't seem to have the depth of those crappy technics T200 speakers. makes no freakin sense to me. or maybe it's not depth maybe the T200 are so upfront that anything that isnt up front in the mix has depth?

They are old speakers. The caps weren't the best to begin with, and now they are old. Time to rebuild.
Ben

ben62670
12-19-2008, 08:46 PM
Early's center. No I'm not kidding.

Early B.
12-19-2008, 09:01 PM
Early's center. No I'm not kidding.

Nope, he's not kidding, ya bastards!:D:p:D

BigMac
12-19-2008, 09:22 PM
The best I have heard was the original B&W Nautilus. Was hooked up to a gazillion McIntosh amps with speaker wire the size of truck. Not really sure if it was the most "natural" sounding, but when I left I thought about those speakers and sound for years. The only other baddass speakers I heard that sounded amazing ( I have not been around that many "OMG" speakers) were the Legacy Whisper speakers that were modded. I heard them years ago at my friends house, they were his fathers. Huge speakers and holy crap did they have alot of bass.

GV#27
12-19-2008, 09:50 PM
Vandersteen 2C's.

Igo
12-19-2008, 09:54 PM
There are a thousand answers to this question and nobody really know which answer is the correct one.

beardog03
12-19-2008, 09:59 PM
There are a thousand answers to this question and nobody really know which answer is the correct one.


The answer is so subjective that there is no "right " or " wrong " answers, as everybody hears what they hear

It`s just that some speaks sound better to more people than others



**did I get that right ?**

W WALDECKER
12-19-2008, 10:05 PM
What brand/model speaker has the most realistic "in the room with you" sound? Also does a speaker that sounds "forward" translate into natural? I guess I would say B&Ws especially the 700 and 800 series sound natural, but they're wicked expensive. How are the new RTA series?

Also are there any not well know speakers that sound very real? I listened to the Magnepans and didn't really like them. So maybe I want a forward sound as opposed to truly natural?

Also I don't know if any of you know/like Porcupine Tree, but their CD "Recordings" has an amazing vibe of being there in the room. Thats the CD I test most speakers with, not because it sounds AMAZING, (it sounds good) but it has a sense of space too it.I think that it is a loaded question and it is system dependant and that includes the listening room acoustics etc...;)

Igo
12-19-2008, 10:21 PM
works....it works.

megasat16
12-19-2008, 10:32 PM
No, I haven't found one yet. It's the life long quest to find one. I am sure most people will change their taste and listening preferences as they ages and men especially lost the ability to hear full frequency range with aging. So, yeah...the best speaker I have yesterday may no longer be the best or the most natural sounding tomorrow (even though it still sounds great). Once again, this is a hobby and a lifelong quest to find one if it does even exists.

Well, I'll tell you what. If you have a musician wife, it's the most natural as it can get but no guarantee that she will forever be the most natural sounding for you as she ages. :D

beardog03
12-19-2008, 10:47 PM
my Pop`s used to play the vibes...
I remember when I was a kid watching him play in the living room

I wish I could find a rig/speaks that sounded that good !!

F1nut
12-19-2008, 11:05 PM
How about the most un-natural floorstanding speaker? B&W is at the top of my list....hell, I'd rather listen to CV's.

DaveMuell
12-19-2008, 11:17 PM
The answer is so subjective that there is no "right " or " wrong " answers, as everybody hears what they hear

It`s just that some speaks sound better to more people than others



**did I get that right ?**

Yes, you did.

Next subject can now be presented.

How about a good ole speaker cable debate or a who had the prom date with the nicest clump of flowers for the evening?

beardog03
12-19-2008, 11:19 PM
that`s an easy one !

My date was hot, but her mom was a better sport ;)

and MIT`s...naturally :D

F1nut
12-19-2008, 11:22 PM
My date was hotter than hot and her mom hated my guts.......hehe

DaveMuell
12-19-2008, 11:24 PM
I always knew my girlfriend's mom kinda "liked me"...

janmike
12-19-2008, 11:25 PM
I ended up taking my best friend's date home. So much for friendship. :D

DaveMuell
12-19-2008, 11:27 PM
I ended up taking my best friend's date home. So much for friendship. :D

Well hey, which one would you rather hang out with at your 10 or even 20 year reunion?

schwarcw
12-20-2008, 01:47 AM
Kook at what the pro's use. Not the magazine writers and reviewers, but the guys in the studio performing the magic on the remastering. You know the guys who hate the loudness war and who are trying to preserve the best sounding recording as it was originally recorded.

Two guys come to mind, Steve Hoffman and Bob Ludwig. Steve of course has his own website where audio equipment, but mainly music is the hotly discussed topic. Steve's studio where he does his near field monitoring for the mastering, he uses Rogers BBC LS3/5a speakers . These speakers are true to form and tell no lies. What is on tape, is what is played back in the speaker. ACCURATELY! Is it natural? It's what on the tape.

Bob Ludwig at Gateway recording has remastered s boatload of SACD's for Sony and others. He probably has done more SACD's and quality SACDs than anyone else by far. Gateway studi has been nominated for 37 Grammies. Here is an interesting link on their evaluation of Monitor type speakers: Here (http://emusician.com/speakers/emusic_good_references/)

gdb
12-20-2008, 01:48 AM
c-corie, what are you feeding the 11s & technics speakers with??? A low power amp or receiver MAY make the lesser speakers sound better because it doesn't have enough ass to properly power the better ones. A lot of great speakers won't even budge with an underpowered amplifier, and as a result sound bad. My .02:)

organ
12-20-2008, 01:59 AM
Klipsch La Scala. The lack of bass can be a turn off for a lot of people.

beardog03
12-20-2008, 02:01 AM
Kook at what the pro's use. Not the magazine writers and reviewers, but the guys in the studio performing the magic on the remastering. You know the guys who hate the loudness war and who are trying to preserve the best sounding recording as it was originally recorded.

Two guys come to mind, Steve Hoffman and Bob Ludwig. Steve of course has his own website where audio equipment, but mainly music is the hotly discussed topic. Steve's studio where he does his near field monitoring for the mastering, he uses Rogers BBC LS3/5a speakers . These speakers are true to form and tell no lies. What is on tape, is what is played back in the speaker. ACCURATELY! Is it natural? It's what on the tape.

Bob Ludwig at Gateway recording has remastered s boatload of SACD's for Sony and others. He probably has done more SACD's and quality SACDs than anyone else by far. Gateway studi has been nominated for 37 Grammies. Here is an interesting link on their evaluation of Monitor type speakers: Here (http://emusician.com/speakers/emusic_good_references/)


Interesting read !

Thanks

beardog03
12-20-2008, 02:01 AM
Klipsch La Scala. The lack of bass can be a turn off for a lot of people.

would be a great speak if you have the room !

megasat16
12-20-2008, 02:44 AM
Kook at what the pro's use. Not the magazine writers and reviewers, but the guys in the studio performing the magic on the remastering. You know the guys who hate the loudness war and who are trying to preserve the best sounding recording as it was originally recorded.

Two guys come to mind, Steve Hoffman and Bob Ludwig. Steve of course has his own website where audio equipment, but mainly music is the hotly discussed topic. Steve's studio where he does his near field monitoring for the mastering, he uses Rogers BBC LS3/5a speakers . These speakers are true to form and tell no lies. What is on tape, is what is played back in the speaker. ACCURATELY! Is it natural? It's what on the tape.

Bob Ludwig at Gateway recording has remastered s boatload of SACD's for Sony and others. He probably has done more SACD's and quality SACDs than anyone else by far. Gateway studi has been nominated for 37 Grammies. Here is an interesting link on their evaluation of Monitor type speakers: Here (http://emusician.com/speakers/emusic_good_references/)

Interesting topic but I want to bring up one topic here. As with all of us, these musicians has their own preferences to them and what they use is what seems to be true to their ears. It's doubtfully the same for everyone else. But in General, yes, what's good for them should be good for most of us but it can be hotly debated.

I agree on this statement - "These speakers are true to form and tell no lies. What is on tape, is what is played back in the speaker. ACCURATELY! Is it natural? It's what on the tape". If you own a system (not just speaker) that can accurately up to 99% of what's been recorded onto the media during mastering can be achieved, I'd say it's darn good to be original and natural sounding system.

I know all of you know that good speakers are only an integral part of a good system and all the other things (source, materials, cables, rooms, amplifications; etc.) all needs to play along right with it too. Synergy is never been my favorite word in the dictionary so I am saying it in the simple form. :D

dorokusai
12-20-2008, 02:50 AM
Magnepan.

McLoki
12-20-2008, 07:50 AM
Klipsch La Scala. The lack of bass can be a turn off for a lot of people.

As can the ice pick pressed against your ears....

dorokusai
12-20-2008, 07:55 AM
Amen.

c_corie
12-20-2008, 09:36 AM
I'm using a Yamaha 50W Stereo reciever, it seems to power them pretty well.

Sort of still on topic, i think for fun/christmas i might get 2 TAD "Aural Ecstasy" 805C center, and use them as L/R speakers. Because 1. They look like b&w speakers which you can't lie is ****ing sick. And 2. I just have this feeling that they will sound fairly good. Also two 5.25 speakes/ported w/ tweeter for cheap isn't a bad deal, even if i end up using them as bookshelf near my computer or something else.

sucks2beme
12-20-2008, 10:12 AM
The monitors they describe in the article don't sound that good
in an average room. There lies the problem. A speaker has to
load up the room right. What works swell in room A won't work
so well in room B. Or it's better with sand or tubes. I've owned
JBL L100's , which statrted as studio monitors. Fun to listen to,
but not very true to life in a standard room.
We could go on and on about this, but what's the point?
One man's natural is another man's yuk. And the debate goes on.

SlowcarIX
12-20-2008, 03:01 PM
What brand/model speaker has the most realistic "in the room with you" sound?

if you get a chance, hear them out

http://www.emeraldphysics.com/intro.htm

quite eerie - able to reproduce a soundstage so tangible, you can almost reach out and touch it.

mhardy6647
12-20-2008, 03:32 PM
As can the ice pick pressed against your ears....

Tom Brennan likens the LaScalas to a Sawsall sonically.

In fairness, all of the rest of the Klipsch Heritage speakers (even the Heresy) are better balanced than the LaScala. The Cornwalls (e.g.) are capable of pretty "natural" presentation, but only with very good (and sympathetic) electronics and exceptionally well-recorded source material. I wouldn't put any of the Klipsch products in the "most natural sounding floorstanding speaker" category myself.

organ
12-21-2008, 02:00 AM
Tom Brennan likens the LaScalas to a Sawsall sonically.

In fairness, all of the rest of the Klipsch Heritage speakers (even the Heresy) are better balanced than the LaScala. The Cornwalls (e.g.) are capable of pretty "natural" presentation, but only with very good (and sympathetic) electronics and exceptionally well-recorded source material. I wouldn't put any of the Klipsch products in the "most natural sounding floorstanding speaker" category myself.


I actually much prefer my LS than my CW. I also have a pair of Cornwall with upgraded caps in the x-over and new woofs/tweets. The LS need a lot more room to breathe. If I have them 8ft away from my head, the sound spectrum, leans toward the bright and forward side. Very painful to listen to. At 11ft, the sound is perfectly balanced and more laid back. The low freq ext. of the Cornwall is amazing though.
I know some people don't like them but I mentioned it because they're the most natural speakers I"ve heard. I haven't heard as many as some people here, but I"ve yet to come across a pair of speakers I like more. Stereophile gave them a very favorable review.

mantis
12-21-2008, 06:27 AM
Dynaudio C4's. The most musical and Natural sounding speaker I have ever heard at any price.
http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/systems/lines/confidence/confidence_c_4.php

mhardy6647
12-21-2008, 03:05 PM
I actually much prefer my LS than my CW...
I know some people don't like them but I mentioned it because they're the most natural speakers I"ve heard. I haven't heard as many as some people here, but I"ve yet to come across a pair of speakers I like more. Stereophile gave them a very favorable review.

Does the Stereophile review in question refer to the current production LaScalas? They may well be better than the earlier incarnations. The Cornies are said to be, as well.
Do you have new, or earlier, LaScalas?

Aldous_Huxley
12-21-2008, 03:52 PM
what are the best sounding speakers under 400 bucks. -LP

ND13
12-21-2008, 07:13 PM
what are the best sounding speakers under 400 bucks. -LP

Monitor 7As or a claen set od SDA 2Bs, just an opi.nion

george daniel
12-21-2008, 07:17 PM
Monitor 7As or a claen set od SDA 2Bs, just an opi.nion

Yep,, throw in some tubes,, dial em' in and don't touch a thing,, just sit back and enjoy.

4406bbl
12-22-2008, 01:01 AM
what are the best sounding speakers under 400 bucks. -LP

CRS+ with rdos.

organ
12-22-2008, 01:48 AM
Does the Stereophile review in question refer to the current production LaScalas? They may well be better than the earlier incarnations. The Cornies are said to be, as well.
Do you have new, or earlier, LaScalas?

My LS are early 90's (too lazy to check date code on ser. #) in perfect shape. Drivers are K-55-M, tweeters are K-77-M. I've yet to open the box to check the woofer. X-over is AL-3. My cornwalls from 1982 use the K-55-V squaker, Crites CT-125 tweeters and Crites woofers designed to be direct replacements. I still prefer the K-77 tweeter over the Crites. The CW's have the B-2 x-over, stock caps replaced with Sonicaps and new internal wiring,

From what I see around the Klipsch forum, the new LSII is better than the LS. But most say, the improvement is in he bass. The new cabinet is more sturdy, they were able to increase sensitivity to 105db/w/m. Some say the tweeter is a little more detailed. So the LS and LSII are quite close sonically. There are also bad sounding LS's out there that use dated x-overs or have leaking caps.
From what I see, the CW3 are better than the original. People are really enjoying them. If I'm not mistaken, I think the new CW3 uses a tractrix mid-horn vs. exponential on the original and 2.

mhardy6647
12-22-2008, 09:09 AM
The MR horn on the earlier Cornies has some pretty glaring (literally!) flaws. I lived with a pair of Cornies for a decade, but sold them as quickly as I could when a nice pair of Altec Valencias became available.

It sounds like you did the work on your LaScalas to make them contenders (and don't get me wrong, I am pro-horn).

I think that the earlier LaScala reputation rests on qualitatively very good but quantitatively lacking LF performance relative to the MR and HF horns/drivers. If the current version has improved LF, so much the better.

I wouldn't mind hearing a pair of the new Cornies sometime. I put Sonicaps in the XOs of my 1974-vintage Cornies for their new owner. They were definitely an improvement. The new owner's using the Cornwalls with a beautiful Fisher 800C procured from Mike Urban in CT, and he's quite happy with them. The Fisher tube receivers complement the characteristics of the vintage Klipsch speakers nicely.

FWIW, the best I personally heard my Cornwalls sound was with a beautiful Marantz 8B that I had refreshed for a local fellow.

The K-77 family (EV T-35) is not my favorite tweeter, but de gustibus non est disputandum, as they say. Haven't heard Crites' drivers.

ohskigod
12-22-2008, 02:47 PM
Yeah, real life natural without the real life low-end.

NEXT!

so, chalking you up as a Quad efficianado would be an error is what your saying....LOL

ND13
12-22-2008, 03:44 PM
There are numerous Advent and Acoustic Research sets that'll treat the ears, too.

gdb
12-22-2008, 07:29 PM
I'm using a Yamaha 50W Stereo reciever, it seems to power them pretty well.

Sort of still on topic, i think for fun/christmas i might get 2 TAD "Aural Ecstasy" 805C center, and use them as L/R speakers. Because 1. They look like b&w speakers which you can't lie is ****ing sick. And 2. I just have this feeling that they will sound fairly good. Also two 5.25 speakes/ported w/ tweeter for cheap isn't a bad deal, even if i end up using them as bookshelf near my computer or something else.

No offense....but you'd like almost any speaker's sound a lot more if you upgraded to a higher powered unit. I don't think that the Yammie is up to the task of powering your Polks very well. (not much headroom) This is probably why the others sound better IMHopinion.:)

mantis
12-22-2008, 07:39 PM
I also think the N801's are probably another one that will just take your breath away and sound as natural as natural gets.

Dan