tube amp prices and names,

[faster100]

I certainly won't be running out and doing this tomorrow.. But as my HT rig is basically complete.. I would love to find a tube amp for a 2 channel setup. I have a picture here of a heathkit tube amp i had when i was about 18 and back then i just beat the crap out of it and then tossed it away, actually it might have been a pre-amp as it had a volume control, bass, and treble and a selector for source's .. but it had speaker terminals that i hooked my speakers to but wasn't very loud.. anyways.. this is something that interest me alot as we collect old stuff, Glassware, coleman stuff and love the old tube stuff as well..

so i wanted to know some names and prices of Tube amps,

[faster100]

excuse the low res pic, it was a old photo i scanned. this was in the background... so it looks far away.. reconize it?? Heathkit... No model though

[organ]

Sorry, I don't know what brand it is or the model#. From your description it sounds more like a tube integrated.

Maurice

[faster100]

Its a heathkit Brand, just don't know the model.. besides i no longer have it, was just wondering what i had..

needed some tube amp names and prices so i can look for some later on,

[tonyv1]

For inexpensive tube amps and preamps, checkout Antique Sound Labs
http://www.divertech.com/antiquesl.html

[madmax]

I would like to try their $329 headphone amp!

[tonyv1]

My buddy has the Antique Sound Labs headphone amp.
He rolled the tubes with Mullards. Great sound through his Grado SR 225 cans. Only issue was his Conrad Johnson preamp doesn't have dual outputs, so he's using the tape output for now.

[faster100]

so where are the inexspensive amps on that page with any power what so ever??

[faster100]

why are tube amp wattage so low?? i don't understand what you could do with 3.2 watts or 22 watts per channel

[tonyv1]

100 W tube amps are not cheap. The mono block tube amps start at about $4K per set (Manley Labs, Rogue Audio, Cary and Audio Electronics Supply). Most stereo tube amps (60 W) start at $1500.

[faster100]

Originally posted by tonyv1
For inexpensive tube amps and preamps, checkout Antique Sound Labs
http://www.divertech.com/antiquesl.html

you mentioned cheap thats why i said that, :rolleyes:

[tonyv1]

I guess it depends on own point of reference. I've been looking at 100 W tube monoblocks for my Maggies in the $4K range.

[faster100]

ok well thats not inexpensive to alot of people on the board but i understand..

[gidrah]

This site has a 8 watt/ch integrated amp kit for $140.00 (tubes included). I've seen others put this in a cheap wooden box with stain and it looks great and they claim it sounds as good.
http://www.tubesandmore.com/

Antique Sound Labs (ASL) has the Wave-8. It's a 10 watt monoblock for about $99.00 without cage. Plenty of folks in the high efficiency asylum love these amps.

I recently got a Dynaco ST-70 (35 w/ch) for Christmas. It sounds great, cost about $350, and I've never cranked out more than 5 watts or so. Most of the time I listen to 4 watt speakers and am able to listen to some pretty high levels in my 12x15 living room without worry to most music. I turn it down for crescendoes.

[faster100]

Gidrah, Thanks.. Thats more like it.. I still don't understand what 8 watts can do when we all strive for 100 or more with our Ht setups. Is the sound louder with tubes?? I know i sound clueless about tube amps because i am.... I know nothing bout them.

Learn me if ya would, I want a small set of speakers... a cd player, maybe a fm tuner and a small tube amp. thats all nothing more and nothing less, speakers on stands also would be fine, no large towers.. keep it simple

[madmax]

From my own experience, 50 watts per channel tube is the equal to about 375 watts per channel SS. It all has to do with clipping beyond the voltage ability of the power transformer. When SS amps of 300-400 watts per channel averages around 50 watts average power it also peaks at values around 300-400 watts. This is the end of it's power range. The tube amp averages the same 50 watts but when it clips, rather than following the peaks up to 300-400 watts it distorts gracefully with even order harmonics and you don't hear it. Thus you perceive the same amount of power. This does vary with program material.
madmax

[faster100]

Great thanks, so what would 8 watts be compared to? Or would the 35 watt amp Gidrah has be a good start? i don't really want to build one myself.. e-bay bound for a used one working would be cool

[madmax]

Originally posted by tonyv1
My buddy has the Antique Sound Labs headphone amp.
He rolled the tubes with Mullards. Great sound through his Grado SR 225 cans. Only issue was his Conrad Johnson preamp doesn't have dual outputs, so he's using the tape output for now.

Do you know the sound output level of this headphone amp? Just in general terms I'm wondering if it can drive the headphones to painful volume levels. I like that now and then.
madmax

[madmax]

Whether it is 30 or 50 watts is somewhat insignificant but I would look closer to the 50 watt range. Jolida makes a nice one. The 302A.
madmax

[madmax]

There is another nice one from Manley called the Stingray which I would consider. Keep in mind I've only tried the two brands.
madmax

[tonyv1]

madmax001,
Don't know what the output level is, but with headphones their impedence will make the difference whether they can driven that loud. I've had Yamaha cans that sounded soft and Sennheiser cans that hurt at the same volume setting.

[madmax]

Thanks! I guess the only way to find out is to try it. I hate spending that much for a headphone amp but I don't have time to do a kit. I think I'll put it off for a while longer. I just bought a Koss A-250 set of phones. No, I wouldn't have thought of Koss either but I got to reading some reviews on this particular model.
madmax

[madmax]

Are there any other tube headphone amps out there that I should be looking at? There was a little extra in the envelope last week if you know what I mean. The karma is good and the pocket is burning! I've read about the Stax amps but I am not willing to spend $1700. I am more into the range of $300 to $500? The headphones I bought have an input impedence of 60 ohms and have a large driver which means I should get some good volume levels. Any ideas about OTL vs transformer amps?
madmax

[tonyv1]

madmax,
Most tube amps I've looked at have output xformers on them. McIntosh even puts them on their more expensive SS amps!
Some the guys on the MUG site used zero-formers in with their amps to drive their Maggies. Suppose to ease the amp load when driving the 4 ohm Maggies.
The only one I know of that sells OTL tube amps is Atma-Sphere
http://www.atma-sphere.com/
Have you checked out the Headroom amps?
http://www.headphone.com/layout.php
I'm looking at replacing my NAD phono preamp with the ASL tube phono preamp.

[rlw]

Originally posted by madmax001
Are there any other tube headphone amps out there that I should be looking at? madmax

These guys are every bit as mad as you, and I mean that in a good way. (http://headwize2.powerpill.org/ubb/forumdisplay.php?fnum=2&fdays=20)

[madmax]

I see what you're saying! Looks like a lot of reading is required. Nothing is ever easy... Nor should it be! Thanks!
madmax

[madmax]

Damn,
Just once it would be nice to get the answer "Buy the *****". I really do appreciate it though.
Thanks again,
madmax

[faster100]

Hey stop hy jacking my thread :) i wanted names and prices for tube amps, ah below the 500 dollar mark, not thousands for one amp.. i'f its not obtainable than fine, But the dynaco amps seem popular on e-bay at 250-400 each

[madmax]

Now, back to the original thread...

My Jolida 302A sold for $355 on ebay. They are really nice amps! I tried one of the HH Scott amps with EL-84's, not the same class as the EL-34's. Look for a Pioneer EL-34 tube amp. They are really cool! Sometimes you see one going for under $500. Ones with KT-88's or 6550's should not be overlooked either.
madmax

[faster100]

Thanks Buddy, Just looking for future 2 channel stuff, Tubes are what dreams are made of they say :) later

[Jstas]

Originally posted by faster100
excuse the low res pic, it was a old photo i scanned. this was in the background... so it looks far away.. reconize it?? Heathkit... No model though


If you need info on Heathkit stuff, this is the place to check out:

Heath Kit Virtual Museum (http://www.heathkit-museum.com/)

[faster100]

thats awesome!! I found the model it was AA-161 combo amp/pre.. Cool cool, so what do you guys think of the old heathkit gear??

I found one on e-bay, different model but its 14 watts each, total 28 and a tube am/fm tuner.... cool looking stuff

[Jstas]

Heathkits are actually very good pieces of equipment from thier time. I have an old tube amp, well, my dad does, and I'm going to be using it in a lab here at work. It's part of the reason I went and grabbed those speakers from George. They will work perfectly!

My dad also has a Heathkit clock. It's one of thier first digital LCD screen clock kits that he put together in like the late 70's. It's like 20 some odd years old or something and it has been keeping perfect time since my dad put it together.

I wish you could still get Heathkit stuff. Check out the specs on some of it. Most are tube amps and they post impressive numbers for thier price. Now all Heathkit does is make professional training kits. Still very impressive and you can learn alot from them but not the same as building your own set of mono-block tube amps for your stereo pre-amp and running a set of ribbon speakers off of it!


Oh and for the differences between a solid state and a tube amp, basically, with a tube amp, what you see is what you get. There is no voltage drop unless you change impedance and there is no wattage change in an operational range. If it's 20W per channel, it's 20W per channel, all the time. They also handle high imperdance loads well but aren't so great at low impedance loads. Most tube amps will be happily chugging along at 8 ohms but will play like a 4 ohm solid state amplifier.

Tube amps have a much warmer sound than the solid state amps too. It's hard to explain unless you hear it. Tube amps are also a good way to heat a room in your house! ;)

I have actually seen tube amps with tubes that will run hot enough to glow! That is cool!

[madmax]

The HeathKit musium is cool! I wish I could order one of their tube kits today. Wouldn't that be cool! I remember the days when I used to see some of them advertised. The prices were pretty good at the time too.
madmax

[faster100]

Madmaxx,

what do you think of a 14 watt x 2 amp?? is that kinda low.. and what speakers could you run with this type of amp??

[madmax]

I'm really not a fan of the smaller ones. 14 watts isn't a lot of power and to me the great sound of the larger tubes disappear. Someone else may like it but personally I don't. From what I can tell most of the people who like the really low power amps like 8 watts or whatever like it because they are using the amp in triode mode which is different than the push-pull amps like I have. It is a different world than I am into.
madmax

[faster100]

Oh i see, so what size amp do you have?? what would be the next step then? heathkit has some 25 and 50 watt amps i think, or the dynaco dynakit70's seem nice.. alot more money though for me, oh well tubes are big money i guess

[Jstas]

The reason tubes are big money is because it is outdated technology. Nobody is making tubes except for a few niche manufacturers who support things like HAM radio and us audio junkies. The problem is, tubes are outdate but still aviable solution and as more people buy into them, the market will go back down. The bonus is, the tubes and fuses and other gear in these amps are being made with much higher precision than they were 30-40 years ago when tubes was pretty much all you could get and transitors were just picking up steam. Consequently, people are revisiting tubes and finding out that there is alot more potential there than they thought.

Asfar as power goes. 14 watts on tubes is equivalent to much more on a transistor/solid state unit. 14 watts doesn't seem like alot by today's standards but for a tube amp, it's do pretty well.

I remember seeing a guy with 7 foot tall ribbon speakers being powered by a 25Wx2 stereo tube amplifier and a seperate 100W monoblock tube amplifier being run through a pre-amp controller. It doesn't seem like much but that stereo could probably shake the house off it's foundation if he pushed it hard enough.

[faster100]

Ok then thanks,, seems like very mixed feelings over power output and such, some will say 8 watts is plenty with others saying 50 watts minimum at a very premium price i might add.. i wanted a value minded setup that sounded good also.. I want 2 small speakers on stands with a small tube amp and tuner and maybe a cd player... Thing is i don't want it to sound all distorted when i turn it up a bit.. also i see no way to incorporate a subwoofer in the 2 channel setup.. being a would plan to use small but nice bookshelf speakers i see not much bass response.. any suggestions for the tuber on a budget???

[madmax]

I just like the EL-34's, 6550's and KT-88's. I have tried one with EL-84's (about 12 w/per) and it didn't have the glorious sound I had been hearing with the others. On ebay I've seen many go for $400 or less. Just keep an eye out for awhile. You could try searching under "EL-34 tube amp" or similar. Another thing you may want to keep an eye out for is ones that say "Ultra linear" which just means a different type of feedback loop from the transformer is used. All the ones I have experience with are ultra linear. I wish we had a "real" tube guy here with about 50 years experience!
madmax

[faster100]

Thanks again, great info

[madmax]

One other thing,
I wouldn't worry too much whether it was 25 watts or 50 watts for your application. Keep in mind an amp that uses say an EL-34 may be listed anywhere from 25 to 50 watts depending on the exact circuitry around the tube.
madmax

[weiser]

I bought a Sonic Frontiers Anthem Amp 1 on eBay for $422 U.S..
Unbelievable for an amp that would have cost almost $2700 CDN.
with taxes new. I also received two complete sets of tubes. The original tubes and a set of Mullards.
Be patient and watch eBay!

[Jstas]

Originally posted by faster100
Ok then thanks,, seems like very mixed feelings over power output and such, some will say 8 watts is plenty with others saying 50 watts minimum at a very premium price i might add.. i wanted a value minded setup that sounded good also.. I want 2 small speakers on stands with a small tube amp and tuner and maybe a cd player... Thing is i don't want it to sound all distorted when i turn it up a bit.. also i see no way to incorporate a subwoofer in the 2 channel setup.. being a would plan to use small but nice bookshelf speakers i see not much bass response.. any suggestions for the tuber on a budget???


Well, I grabbed a kit from that tubesandmore place. Seems decent for 140 bucks. I'll be putting that together soon and playing with it. Looks like the older Heathkits. I'll tell you how it works out when I get it finished.

However, those monoblock amps and that pre-amp from Antinque Labs, that Wave-8 deal looks pretty nice. You can also pick up a fairly inexpensive high power monoblock amp that puts out like 70W x1 I think it was. I'd have to recheck the website to know for sure. Anyway, with a decent set of bookshelf speakers and a sub, you could put together a nice stereo for less than 1500 bucks minu things like CD player and tuner and so on but anything will work with them it seems so you can be budget minded there.

Even if you don't get into it, tubes are a neat thing to fool around with. They are definitly a different sound but, if they break, they are pretty easy to fix with parts you can find at Radio Shack. Only thing not at the Shack is fuses. But there are places to get them too. I'd recommend a tube amp to anybody. Even if it's just a little pre-amp and amplifier like the Wave-8 stuff for your desk at work.

[faster100]

How would you hook up a subwoofer from a old pre-amp and tube amp?? They don't exactly have a sub out?? would you just use the high level speaker wire inputs on the sub and run the bookshelfs off like sats....

[wangotango68]

http://www.idealinnovations.biz/

scott:cool:

[Jstas]

Originally posted by faster100
How would you hook up a subwoofer from a old pre-amp and tube amp?? They don't exactly have a sub out?? would you just use the high level speaker wire inputs on the sub and run the bookshelfs off like sats....

The ones I was referring to are not old. They are brand spankin new! All you have to do is run signals to the amps and have 3 seperate amps. One for the left, one for the right, and one for the sub. It is simple to wire up a passive sub crossover on the signal wires to limit the frequency range and the parts can be found at your local Radio Shack.

However, the pre-amp I am speaking of is also a tube based unit and a pre-amp does not have speaker leads. It has only signal wires which send a signal to the amplifier(s) which then in turn send the signal to the speakers. There is no amplification from the pre-amp. That's why it's called a preamp. It only processes a signal and sends it to am amplifier. The amplifier plays that same signal louder. Trying to run speakers off of a pre-amp signal will not only sound like hell but probably break your pre-amp too.

[madmax]

Not to get around the subwoofer issue but when you listen to tubes presenting the bass it is different. A little loose, a little more real. Once you notice it you may no longer want a sub.
madmax

[faster100]

Jstas:
I fully understand pre-amps and amps and tuners and all, although i appreciate your explanation, I just am not familiar with tube gear and i was interested in old/vintage tube amps and so that is why i mentioned how to hook up a sub, Thanks

madmax:
I was also thinking along those lines as well of not needing a sub anyways... i will most likely stick with polk audio for the speakers and i really like Onkyo and integra gear of older and plan to most likely get a pre-amp by Onkyo Integra and a cd player of some sort and a tube amp or dual mono amps to run a set of polk rti28's or 38's or lsi 7's... we will see though...

[Jstas]

I wasn't trying to be a jerk. In hindsight I probably was. I apologize. It jus threw me for a loop that you asked how it would handle a sub. I guess we weren't on the same page.

[madmax]

Any of the self powered subs that accept speaker level inputs should work.
madmax

[faster100]

Jstas:
You weren't being a jerk i was just letting you know that i knew about the hookup of such pieces so you didn't get into a whole breakdown of hooking it up when i already knew, and i didn't really think first before posting that question i guess, I guess i was just hung up on the sub out hookups like on my receiver and never thought about just hooking the amp to the sub first then to the bookshelf speakers.. anyways i don't know about Tubes at this point, alot of expense.. that might be a long term project later on

[gidrah]

Tube amps and subs usually don't go too well together. The tubes don't have the damping factor of SS. Subs usually need alot more power also. I'll look around for some other amp suggestions.

Depending on the size of your room, how loud you like your music and such, any speaker rated @90dB sensitivity should work fine. I heard these last year and really liked them. I've been throwing around the idea of getting some since then.
http://www.diycable.com/catalog/products/he10_review.htm

[gidrah]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3004120465&category=14973 30w/ch AMC hybrid for $369 BIN
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3004729841&category=3280 Great looking Harman Kardon integrated amp. I have no idea on the condition of the tubes or availability of replacements.
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1049239541&class&3&4& Dynaco ST-70 for $350+50S&H
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1049144746&class&3&4& Counterpoint SA-100 hybrid
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1048886650&class&3&4& A rebuilt Dynaco SCA-35 integrated for $250 (Good choice)
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1048860810&class&3&4& Dynaco amp, pre & tuner for $500
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1048831334&class&3&4& Fisher amp for $350

[rnoseworthy]

Fater100 Check some of the links below. Check the FAQ section of the first link I think it will explain the question of why the amps power is different but the results in terms of SPL would be about the same.
http://www.beauhorn.com/pages/frame.html

The links below all have some tube amps. I didn't know if you were looking for a kit or not.
http://www.diycable.com/catalog/default.php
http://www.welbornelabs.com/index.html also check some of the speakers on the recommended speaker section.
http://www.bottlehead.com/
http://www.wright-sound.com/
http://www.soundsofsilence.com/

These are a few links that I have found. If you check the links section of some of these sites you will be able to find more. I hope this helps.

[rnoseworthy]

I apologize for the name typo.

[madmax]

One point to make concerning prices of tube amps. Even the cheaper tube amps like I use are comparable to SS amps in the $1500 to $2500 range. $400 spent on a SS amp will not even come close in performance to the same amount spent on a tube amp. It is just that the good tube amps start out at around $1000. Of course used prices are half of that. :)
madmax

[bikezappa]

Try any of the Jolida amps. They are completely intergrated, have head phone jack, 50 to 100 watt power and can be purchased for about $500 on ebay. The sound will be educational. My even want to try the Jolida tube CD player for about $500. Have a blast.