Newer receivers for running the LSi series speakers

[djreef]

Looking to upgrade the old ES receiver for something a little more recent, but I need to know if there are going to b impedance issues with the LSi9's (mains) LsiC (center), and Lsi7's (rear) that I need to watch out for. I have heard that some of the newer receivers are having issues with the lower impedances of the LSi's. I don't want to run the risk of throwing the receiver amps into protection during xplosions, and such. I'll b running a pair of amped subs so the receiver wont b having to do any of then real heavy lifting per se' when it comes to low frequencies. I'm thinking that I can b a little more flexible with the subs, given that I have 2 of them, being able to cross them over a little higher than normal - given this will b a movie/TV only system - little or no music. Just wondering if anyone is currently running LSi's with a newer HT rig and what their recommendations would b. Thanx ahead.


DJ

[dkg999]

I ran my HT system with a B&K AVR 507s2 with no problems. I only added the external B&K amp for the LSi9's because it was available at a good price from another forum member. The external amp on the LSi9's does make a positive improvement, but it sounded great running everything off the AVR.

[djreef]

I have Carver amps in the rig, now. The problem - I'm moving in with the girlfriend, and she's having a cow about all the wires and ugly black boxes, so..... I'll b dumping all my amps over the next few weeks and upgrading the receiver with the proceeds, using HDMI (thus reducing the wire clutter). The HT system is going to b more to placate her.

The tradeoff, though is that I get my own dedicated 2 channel listening room in another part of the house. Something I've always wanted.

DJ

[Kex]

Have you checked out NAD yet? Very good with 4 ohms and 2 ohm capable (and a big improvement, in my case, with 8 ohm speakers too).

They will not implement the new HD audio formats, if you want those, until later this year (maybe February), but hugely dynamic sound IMO, with excellent, tight bass (from my speakers), more detailed vocals and superb surround sound processing. Good deals can be found from Spearit Sound, but the available models on sale vary from time to time. The receivers are all T7xx, with the current lines being T7_4 and T7_5, but only the T7_5 models have HDMI. Check for analog to digital cross conversion, if you need that, to make sure you will only need one HDMI cable from the receiver to the TV.

http://nadelectronics.com/products/av-receivers
http://www.spearitsound.com/nad/nadspec.htm

Some extracts below from a review of a NAD amplifier, that I found mirrored almost exactly my experience with the T754 when I got it (surpassing significantly the results I obtained with Emotiva separates rated 125w/ch):

The secret behind the ... ability to drive difficult loads is NAD’s PowerDrive circuitry. According to NAD, PowerDrive is a second high-voltage rail on the power supply that can double the amp’s output for brief periods. Think of it as nitrous-oxide injection for your hot rod that you don’t have to flick a switch to take advantage of -- PowerDrive kicks in automatically when needed.

Because the NAD ... sounded cleaner, with more control over the speakers, ... I ... set the crossover point to a lower frequency so that more of the sound was produced by the speakers instead of the sub.

... the effects of using the NAD ... were startlingly immediate. A good example was just after the opening scene of Mission: Impossible III, when the M:I theme breaks in with military-style drumming. ... the drumming sounded tighter and sharper, rather than the more relaxed, less distinct sound ...

Another area ... was the midrange; dialogue had greater clarity ... No amount of money spent on amplification, source components, or processing can clear up the mumbling of Sylvester Stallone in Rocky Balboa, but the dialogue was much cleaner through the NAD. ... Also, the noise floor in my system was a lot quieter through the NAD; as a result, dialogue was coherent even at lower volumes -- or as coherent as Rocky can be.

... I found myself playing my system louder without realizing it ... This was no doubt because clean power is less fatiguing, ... At high volumes, the highs didn’t sound brittle through the NAD ...

[djreef]

Thanx Kex - she's wanting a BluRay player, so I'm thinking I'm gonna have to stick with Jap crap. Besides, I don't think I'm gonna b able to swing that much for a receiver - was hoping to keep it under a grand.

DJ

[mmadden28]

Expect the LSI9's to dip below 2 ohms around 50Hz. XO at 80Hz is probably good. I think that if you set it too high you might be able to localize the sub. I think I read that once you get over 100Hz you can start to localize the source. Whereas below that you shouldn't be able to tell where the sub is (unless of course its really up loud and blowing your hair back or pounding into your back) :eek::cool: )

Here's a link (http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/polkaudio_lsi9/)to a chart on the LSi9. Look at Chart #4 for the impedance curve-its lowest at ~50Hz.[/QUOTE]

I was having an issue with an amp going into protection when driving my LSi9's at a specific lower frequency (music), and when I crossed it over to a sub at 80Hz, it was fine.

[djreef]

Thanx Madden,

I have that graph from awile back, and was thinking the same. I was thinking along the lines of 100Hz for a xover point. I have 2 subs so that gives me a little more flexibility as far as the localization problem, plus it's going to b for movies, and TV almost exclusively. I'm thinking that localization is going to b an even smaller issue, still. OK, so you've had descent luck with your Onkyo? I was looking to get one of the newr AV units (706 or 806), but heard the horror stories surrounding their abysmal customer service. That kinda concerned me a bit.

DJ

[mmadden28]

...OK, so you've had descent luck with your Onkyo? I was looking to get one of the newr AV units (706 or 806), but...

DJ

Actually I don't recall that I had the LSi9's hooked up to my Onkyo 805. I kinda skipped right into an external amp (The XPA-5).
Otherwise, aside from a wierd thing when I'm trying to listen to an SACD via HDMI when the TV is off where the audio keeps cutting in and out (resolved by turning HDMI Monitor to off or by turning the TV on when using SACD), I don't think I've really had any other issues-at least not that I recall right now or probably worth mentioning.

[Kex]

Thanx Kex - she's wanting a BluRay player, so I'm thinking I'm gonna have to stick with Jap crap. Besides, I don't think I'm gonna b able to swing that much for a receiver - was hoping to keep it under a grand.

DJ
Well, NAD is the most obvious choice, but if you can't swing it ... I've seen some recommend the Pioneer Elite stuff too, even if it's not rated for 4 ohms officially IIRC, but I bet that won't be cheap either. You seem to know what you're doing, but it would scare the cr@p out of me to use the options that are not really 4 ohm friendly.

Maybe you should just sell the LSi's and get some RTi A's instead? The consensus seems to be that the LSi without proper amplification don't sound as good as the RTi A alternatives, which are more forgiving.

[Sami]

Under a grand, how about a combo of HK 254 ($399) and Emotiva UPA-7 ($549). $948 + shipping should be just a little over. HK has always been a good match up with LSi's and with the power amp I don't think you'd run into power issues. Just an idea.

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=91729
http://emotiva.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=32

[djreef]

but it would scare the cr@p out of me to use the options that are not really 4 ohm friendly.

Maybe you should just sell the LSi's and get some RTi A's instead?

Yea, which is why I posted this.

I'm starting to think along those lines, as well. The Lsi9's are my biggest concern.

[Sami]

I'm starting to think along those lines, as well. The Lsi9's are my biggest concern.

The downgrade would still cost you money, I think. I would just spend it on a good receiver + amp combo. Plenty of options really, the HK + Emotiva combo was just an example that featured new items.

[djreef]

Under a grand, how about a combo of HK 254 ($399) and Emotiva UPA-7 ($549). $948 + shipping should be just a little over. HK has always been a good match up with LSi's and with the power amp I don't think you'd run into power issues. Just an idea.

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=91729
http://emotiva.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=32

Unfortunately, we're running into the cables problem again with an external amp. Everything has to b clean and minimal to suit her - ie "no messy wires" to quote her. She's being a PIA about this. Maybe I'm upgrading the wrong system :D.

DJ

[Pepi28]

"Maybe I'm upgrading the wrong system ."

^What I was thinking.^

[Sami]

LOL, don't get any ideas... ;)

Messy wires, hmmm, you'd only be adding an extra power cord plus 3 sets of RCA's (if you're running 5.1). Get some short runs, 3ft or less, and put a zip tie on them so they won't hang out there. If she is ok with 2 pieces of equipment you're fine. And remember, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission...say you didn't know, you thought it was a wireless system. :)

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021803&p_id=2869&seq=1&format=2

[mmadden28]

Have you thought about a different kind of cabinet? Something that would conceal the wires and the AVR/Amp altogether?

[dkg999]

Maybe you should consider a SurroundBar for the HT and put the money into the 2 ch system?

[djreef]

Maybe you should consider a SurroundBar for the HT and put the money into the 2 ch system?

Yea, I'm very recently entertaining that option, as well. I really want to simplify this whole operation. It seems to be not so simple to simplify. It's looking like I'm going to b keeping one of the Carvers, either way I go, just to manage the LSi9's. I was just hoping I could get around all that with a one box option. Oh, well.


DJ

[Sami]

I have Carver amps in the rig, now. The problem - I'm moving in with the girlfriend, and she's having a cow about all the wires and ugly black boxes, so..... I'll b dumping

I guess I missed than from the beginning. Why don't you tell her tough, that's how it's going to be. Either way you go, yours or hers, it's going to set the tone for the rest of the relationship...set your foot down now so you won't be the whipping boy later. :D

[djreef]

RIIIIIGHT! I'm doing this, too to see if I can do it - so I have selfish reasons also. I'd like to minimize this, so I can dump the remaining proceeds into my 'music only' room. I truly would like to sell everything I don't absolutely need. There is an alternate agenda taking shape here.

DJ

[Sami]

Seriously speaking, a full HT setup needs its own dedicated room IMHO. For living room setups, I prefer quality 2.1 setting over full surround. Keep the 9's and settle for a decent integrated if you don't have room for a nice AV rack that hides the wires.

I'm not saying a good, clean living room HT surround can't be done. It can, just needs to be cleanly and most living rooms don't provide the right space for this.

[djreef]

Seriously speaking, a full HT setup needs its own dedicated room IMHO. For living room setups, I prefer quality 2.1 setting over full surround. Keep the 9's and settle for a decent integrated if you don't have room for a nice AV rack that hides the wires.

I'm not saying a good, clean living room HT surround can't be done. It can, just needs to be cleanly and most living rooms don't provide the right space for this.

I absolutely agree 100%. Gawd, and if you only saw the livingroom that I have to work with. Picture windows down one side - tile, with thick carpeted stepdown flooring. And to top it off she wants to put the TV in the frickin corner by the fireplace. So, needless to say, this system is basically for her. I've rather absolved myself from having to do any real heavy lifting on this project, and have more or less resolved to do simply what I can with the least amount of $ and effort. It saddens me a bit, to see my 5000 watt overkill monster HT rig get broken down, but the payoff to me helps to take some of the sting out of it. So, she gets what she wants - I gets what I wants (my dedicated music room). See how that works.

DJ