Why is MIT cables better?

[disneyjoe7]

I'm asking because I noticed a different sound with some Demo cables I got now. Thank you Uncle Ted ;)


I mean why is MIT better? There are other companies who make nice cables like AudioQuest, who don't to anything with network circuits. So why is MIT cables better? Is it because the network is given you higher levels sounds? Doesn't this color the sound?

[polkatese]

The secret sauce is in the Network...

[MillerLiteScott]

There is magic inside those boxes.

[janmike]

there is magic inside those boxes.

big time.

[disneyjoe7]

But is it given you a color sound?

[janmike]

Nope - sounds very natural.

[disneyjoe7]

Nope - sounds very natural.


How did you know? Is it something they told you? Where's the test?

[janmike]

Based on other cables. Much more detail. The test is in my ears.

[Ricardo]

Who cares why? Just use the cables that sound best to your ears (and you can afford).

[pearsall001]

Do they make your rig sound different or better??? Flip a coin for your answer.

[disneyjoe7]

Ok because its louder is it better?

[heiney9]

Disney,

MIT's web page has about a days worth of reading and discussion about the cables. Get your learn on.

It's the magic beans in the network boxes ;)

[NJPOLKER]

I would imagine MIT put alot of money in research and development when engineering those cables. Maybe some day when I find some extra cash again I'll find out for myself.
Drew

[janmike]

I find sometimes the less you read, the less you know can help prior to any significant evaluation of gear, especially cables and tweaks. Preconceived notions often have a tendency to skew the results. If it sounds good, buy it. JMO.

[disneyjoe7]

Do they make your rig sound different or better??? Flip a coin for your answer.


They are given me more bass, tighter maybe or just different. Then female voice are forward, where male voice are behind a little now. Drums are forward, not the bass the other stuff. (You can say I don't make music... I just like music :rolleyes:) Are they different then AudioQuest yes are they better I not sure, but I like them and more I listen I them more. But I would feel the same with a Drug dealer, the more I did the more I liked it. :eek::eek::eek:

[janmike]

Well Steve, you are probably the first to site an analogy between MIT cables and a drug dealer. :eek:

You should probably just send them back and find the drug dealer. :) :D

[heiney9]

They are given me more bass, tighter maybe or just different. Then female voice are forward, where male voice are behind a little now. Drums are forward, not the bass the other stuff. (You can say I don't make music... I just like music :rolleyes:) Are they different then AudioQuest yes are they better I not sure, but I like them and more I listen I them more. But I would feel the same with a Drug dealer, the more I did the more I liked it. :eek::eek::eek:

I have to say when I demo'd those the more I listened and switched out my regular cable the more impressed I was with them. I went right out and bought a newer generation (used) pair off E-bay and the I/C's to match.

I have no regrets and am thankful people like Ricardo and Ted made the demo possible. It's the ONLY true way to know if something works and improves your own system.

[Keiko]

inspiredsports has some MIT's up for grabs in the FM now. I wish I had the dough cuz I wouldn't mind trying these myself. How good are the one's he's selling anyway?

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76817

[polkatese]

MIT Golden Rule: Go Shotgun Or Go Home...


hmmmm, sure it doesn't rhyme. But, it's true.


that's purely my personal opinion and I shouldn't be flamed for saying it, and if you feel otherwise, I am very cool with that too. ;)

[heiney9]

MIT Golden Rule: Go Shotgun Or Go Home...


hmmmm, sure it doesn't rhyme. But, it's true.


that's purely my personal opinion and I shouldn't be flamed for saying it, and if you feel otherwise, I am very cool with that too. ;)

I'm taking donations. Not ready to spend that kind of coin.......................yet :). I'm sure the Shotguns are another BIG step up. For now I'm happy with my T2's.

[heiney9]

inspiredsports has some MIT's up for grabs in the FM now. I wish I had the dough cuz I wouldn't mind trying these myself. How good are the one's he's selling anyway?

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76817

Very, very good. Of course the Shotguns are in whole other category but so is the price.

[Keiko]

MIT Golden Rule: Go Shotgun Or Go Home...


hmmmm, sure it doesn't rhyme. But, it's true.


that's purely my personal opinion and I shouldn't be flamed for saying it, and if you feel otherwise, I am very cool with that too. ;)

I'm interested in those cables. But are you saying they wouldn't be worth upgrading to? Consider my modest rig...Yamaha RX-797 2 channel receiver, EQ630, and a Yammie DVD/SACD S1800 Universal. Can my system benefit from these? Chime in guys please.

[heiney9]

I'm interested in those cables. But are you saying they wouldn't be worth upgrading to? Consider my modest rig...Yamaha RX-797 2 channel receiver, EQ630, and a Yammie DVD/SACD S1800 Universal. Can my system benefit from these? Chime in guys please.

I'd say no to the Shotguns, but certainly a line like the AVt line would be an improvement (of course not sure what you're running now). Is the EQ really necessary. I mean I don't even have (or for that matter need tone controls) and IMO, EQ's are a bandaid.

But yes, I think MIT's might give you some more out of your system but don't spend a lot. Because with your modest system there will most definitely be a point of diminishing returns.

H9

P.s. I won't be looking at moving up to Shotguns until I go up the next rung or two of the ladder equipment wise.

[polkatese]

yes, you WILL see the benefit of upgrading.

I guess it's a matter of drawing the line on the sands of the "upgrading" sickness. For the right price, given the choice, if you have budget for signalcable level price but can get MIT for about the same price (even if it's +$100 and you have the extra coins), then go for the MIT.

[polkatese]

I'd say no to the Shotguns, but certainly a line like the AVt line would be an improvement (of course not sure what you're running now). Is the EQ really necessary. I mean I don't even have (or for that matter need tone controls) and IMO, EQ's are a bandaid.

But yes, I think MIT's might give you some more out of your system but don't spend a lot. Because with your modest system there will most definitely be a point of diminishing returns.

H9

P.s. I won't be looking at moving up to Shotguns until I go up the next rung or two of the ladder equipment wise.

Wise recommendation..

[polkatese]

I'm interested in those cables. But are you saying they wouldn't be worth upgrading to? Consider my modest rig...Yamaha RX-797 2 channel receiver, EQ630, and a Yammie DVD/SACD S1800 Universal. Can my system benefit from these? Chime in guys please.

btw, Keiko, just to clarify, you're asking in the context of what's being offered by Inspiredposts right?

[Keiko]

Thanks fella's. Yeah heiney, I like over-kill, but shotguns would be a bit to much and not really within my budget either. I'm really interested in inspired's offering cuz I still have a couple of them nasty M cables on my rig that I've been want to ditch anyway. Hmmmm, well based on what you guys are saying, these maybe worth trying.

[Keiko]

btw, Keiko, just to clarify, you're asking in the context of what's being offered by Inspiredposts right?
Yes...the ones in the FM I posted the link to.

[heiney9]

Thanks fella's. Yeah heiney, I like over-kill, but shotguns would be a bit to much and not really within my budget either. I'm really interested in inspired's offering cuz I still have a couple of them nasty M cables on my rig that I've been want to ditch anyway. Hmmmm, well based on what you guys are saying, these maybe worth trying.

I know it's beating a dead horse................but the M* stuff really is bad. I have about 4 pairs here in a drawer and I've been using a pair in the office rig between my DAC and Integrated amp and even switching to Signals using my modded 5B's for speakers was a very noticeable difference.

I'm also using DIY Shotgun style runs of Canare 4S6 for speaker cables and that was a BIG improvement over the cheap M* zip cord is was using. I figured it was a secondary system why put the better cables in there.......well it made a positive difference. Even if you don;t go with MIT get the M*'s out of there and at the very least Signal and Blue Jeans are nice cost effective alternative.

H9

[heiney9]

Also a nice thing with MIT cables is they tend to hold their value so if you don't like them or they aren't a good match you can flip them w/o taking a big hit.

[Hawkeye]

But is it given you a color sound?

I think any cable will impart some type of coloration. The question is,do you like it and can they be listened to without introducing fatigue? I know after trying several different brands, the initial "listen" which may be bright or darker than the previous cable, the newness wears off and the fatigue factor takes over.

Gordon

[NJPOLKER]

Also a nice thing with MIT cables is they tend to hold their value so if you don't like them or they aren't a good match you can flip them w/o taking a big hit.

I see where Joe Abrams sells most of his MIT's with a life time warranty.

[Keiko]

I know it's beating a dead horse................but the M* stuff really is bad. I have about 4 pairs here in a drawer and I've been using a pair in the office rig between my DAC and Integrated amp and even switching to Signals using my modded 5B's for speakers was a very noticeable difference.

I'm also using DIY Shotgun style runs of Canare 4S6 for speaker cables and that was a BIG improvement over the cheap M* zip cord is was using. I figured it was a secondary system why put the better cables in there.......well it made a positive difference. Even if you don;t go with MIT get the M*'s out of there and at the very least Signal and Blue Jeans are nice cost effective alternative.

H9
I sent inspired a PM. I'm going to go ahead and try these. He already sent me a PM...Real nice polkie...made me a great offer. I'm really psyched and look forward to trying these. Man, I got into audio years ago as an enthusiast. Now I'm a budding audiophile. I was warned when I first joined CP about you guys taking me to the Dark Side. And it is good. :D

[tonyb]

I don't give a rats ass about how they make sausage,I just know it tastes good.
Same with cables....not that I eat mine or anything like that.:)

[mantis]

There are many good companies who make great wire. I can name a few really good wire companies. Audioquest and Kimber kable are my favorite 2 to date. I'm still using all Audioquest in my system currently. But working for a dealer who carries so much wire, I may have to try out some others.....

So why is MIT good wire? What makes them so special? It's in the network brick. I was trained many years ago by Transparent who at one time was the same company. Transparent and MIT split but they both use almost the same exact technology. They both will tell you "they do it better" then the other but with my experience with the 2 companies, they sound almost exactly the same.
The network bricks have inside the ability to remove tones above 20khz. According to Transparent, this is where the most interference happens and hurts your sound. Copper and cables can be good but at some point you can't fix whats broken. So they decided this was the best way to achieve purity from one place to another.

I would never say Transparent and MIT are better then any other companies. I would say they are as good as other high end companies and not as with others. Depending on the level of cable, Transparent can like MIT be beat for the money. I prefer both Audioquest and Kimber for the same money or even in some cases less.

It's all personal opinion on anything with our systems. Sometimes the right cable is the one that sounds the best to you. Sometimes that mean the higher end cable sometimes not.

Dan

[Keiko]

Question: Are the MIT interconnects directional cables? Should the network box be placed closer to the source or the amp? Can't find any info on that.

[heiney9]

Question: Are the MIT interconnects directional cables? Should the network box be placed closer to the source or the amp? Can't find any info on that.

The ones I own and have seen are.

[Keiko]

Thanks H9. Face also responded in the FM thread.

[WilliamM2]

How did you know? Is it something they told you? Where's the test?

Here's one test, even MIT employee's couldn't pick out their own cables from generic 16 gauge zip cord. The tester? Some guy named Frank Van Alstine.

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=60159.msg539789#msg539789

[NJPOLKER]

Here's one test, even MIT employee's couldn't pick out their own cables from generic 16 gauge zip cord. The tester? Some guy named Frank Van Alstine.

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=60159.msg539789#msg539789

I don't even have to read the attachment to know something is wrong. I don't know Fank Van Alstine but I have heard for myself the difference cables make.
Drew

[Keiko]

Here's one test, even MIT employee's couldn't pick out their own cables from generic 16 gauge zip cord. The tester? Some guy named Frank Van Alstine.

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=60159.msg539789#msg539789
Opinions vary. ;)

[disneyjoe7]

Here's one test, even MIT employee's couldn't pick out their own cables from generic 16 gauge zip cord. The tester? Some guy named Frank Van Alstine.

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=60159.msg539789#msg539789



Well to be honest I don't believe that crap. I got a Blue Jean cable on my center and I feel its missing something right now with MIT cables used for L / R :(

In fact I use AudioQuest bedrock speakers wires normally, they sound different then this MIT setup. :mad:

[WilliamM2]

Well to be honest I don't believe that crap.

Well you asked the question. Sorry if you didn't like the answer.

[Ricardo]

Here's one test, even MIT employee's couldn't pick out their own cables from generic 16 gauge zip cord.

I don't think having good ears is a requirement to build cables :rolleyes:

[Keiko]

Well you asked the question. Sorry if you didn't like the answer.
We get it William. You're one that believes cables don't make a significant difference. What I don't get is why you gotta stir the f*ckin pot on these discussions every time? :confused:

[inspiredsports]

Well you asked the question. Sorry if you didn't like the answer.

The original poster asked "Why are MIT's cables better", NOT "Why are they not better".

MIT designs to a plan. They have a theory that resistance, capacitance and inductance matter, and they build accordingly. They use high-quality wire, teflon insulation, sheathing and connectors and a carefully valued network component to correct measurable problems. That costs money.

Yes opinions about sound vary. Most over 30 have some degree of hearing loss (and many under 30 don't have a firm basis of reference). You probably don't hear the same improvements or problems that 1,000 others in the forum hear.

Quantitatively this brand does quite well, Qualitatively they do quite well also, but not for everyone.

[disneyjoe7]

Thanks guys, yes I hear a difference so something is there for sure. I just wonder if the network is adding to sound to correct something the cable does for the length of wire itself. It's hard to believe an Interconnect of 3' could be corrected as is hard to believe something 3 feet under 20khz as any lose. I mean the sound grows on ya, but so would crack, heroin, or whatever blue green red.

[janmike]

Steve, good sex can do that to you as well. :D

Drugs mask reality and if you think cables are doing that as well, then eliminate the cables. It's as simple as that. Get your wife to do a blind test with you.

[disneyjoe7]

Drug, Sex can we have Rock and Roll?

[janmike]

The last 2 for sure.

[WilliamM2]

We get it William. You're one that believes cables don't make a significant difference. What I don't get is why you gotta stir the f*ckin pot on these discussions every time? :confused:

Every time? More like 1 in 100, don't exagerate. And I wasn't stirring the pot, he asked where the test was I answered, Try not to get so worked up.

[Keiko]

Even with my limited experience Steve I can affirm cables make a difference in how equipment sounds. Couple years ago I never would of given it much thought. When I changed out my generic speaker cables with the BJC Belden 5000UE I noticed a big difference right away. Same thing with IC's. Got a few Blue Jeans in my rig now and those were a huge improvement over the OEM and Monster's I had in there. I'm really psyched now about getting some MIT's. I can finally get rid of all those M cables now in my rig. I'll need to integrate them with the BJC's, but have a good idea how I'm going to do it so I get the most out of the system. I have no complaints at all with the Blue Jeans IC's. They're far better than any of the MC's in my rig. I can't wait to finally be rid of em' and get my ear's on some highly acclaimed MIT's.

[Face]

William, you're such a martyr.

[Keiko]

Every time? More like 1 in 100, don't exagerate. And I wasn't stirring the pot, he asked where the test was I answered, Try not to get so worked up.
I'm going to ignore that line of BS. And the only thing I'm worked up about is gettin' me some Real Cables now. You should to William. It's exillerating ;)

[SEH]

Thanks guys, yes I hear a difference so something is there for sure. I just wonder if the network is adding to sound to correct something the cable does for the length of wire itself. It's hard to believe an Interconnect of 3' could be corrected as is hard to believe something 3 feet under 20khz as any lose.

I don't think it can add anything to the sound. If there's loss in the cable, you can't add it back with a passive device.

It's technically removing something from the sound, something the designer thinks shouldn't be there. Read what mantis posted. Maybe they've figured out some way to subdue high frequency non-linear distortion.

I don't know the exact details of the blind listening tests that supposedly "prove" something about these cables, but I know the qualities that lead to fatigue aren't always immediately apparent as something that will cause fatigue. At least, not until you've listened to something long enough to feel it, and then your memory causes you to zero in on what annoys you, and you just get fatigued faster and faster until you give up on that gear. So I think most blind tests prove short-term listening conclusions are unreliable more than anything else.

[F1nut]

Transparent and MIT split but they both use almost the same exact technology. They both will tell you "they do it better" then the other but with my experience with the 2 companies, they sound almost exactly the same.


No, they don't and no, they don't.

And yes William, you do.

[WilliamM2]

William, you're such a martyr.

Martyr? I don't recall sacrificing my life or personal freedom for any particular cause.:confused:

[Keiko]

Martyr, without a cause. :rolleyes:

[daboyz]

Keiko - At the latest RAS meeting we demo'd MIT's and they were hands down the winner of the day. They are definitely a great cable and made me go out and buy IC's and speaker cables.

[disneyjoe7]

Keiko - At the latest RAS meeting we demo'd MIT's and they were hands down the winner of the day. They are definitely a great cable and made me go out and buy IC's and speaker cables.


I knew I wasn't going to like that / this demo of cables.


You Bastards ;)

[daboyz]

I knew I wasn't going to like that / this demo of cables.


You Bastards ;)

It's good to be a bastard when you've got great cables.:p:D

[Keiko]

Keiko - At the latest RAS meeting we demo'd MIT's and they were hands down the winner of the day. They are definitely a great cable and made me go out and buy IC's and speaker cables.
Uh oh! Am I gunna have to upgrade my speaker cables now to? :D ;)

[Keiko]

It's good to be a bastard when you've got great cables.:p:D
I wanna be a fargin bastige. :cool:

[daboyz]

I wanna be a fargin bastige. :cool:

Yes you will be.......









Once you upgrade.;)

[heiney9]

Here's one test, even MIT employee's couldn't pick out their own cables from generic 16 gauge zip cord. The tester? Some guy named Frank Van Alstine.

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=60159.msg539789#msg539789

Let it go dude........................your anti-cable crusade is well known. He can hear a difference, I can hear a difference and many others can too. You're way off topic here. We get it..............you don;t believe. No one asked if they could hear a difference.......he asked why he could hear a difference.

You're bordering on the lunatic fringe always chiming in when your info isn't remotely relevant. We get it.....cables don;t matter, except to those of us who can actually hear a difference. Take you're argument to a thread that has relevance to your cause.

H9

[Keiko]

Yes you will be.......









Once you upgrade.;)
Then my journey to The Dark Side will be complete. :eek:



I do this really good voice impression of a gay Yoda, seriously! :D
If I ever get to Polk Fest I'll do it for you guys.

[jm1]

The signal path from my DAC to the Dynaudio monitors is using Nordost Frey cables. These cables have significantly eclipsed the performance of the previous Harmonic Technology cables in every aspect. The overall presentation is very neutral with outstanding air, depth, layering, macro dynamics and inner detail. I am now hearing low level details and sonic characteristics within the music I have not heard on mine or other systems.

For those who are in the process of addressing system cabling, I highly recommend having a listen to the Nordost Norse series (Heimdall or Frey) cables within your system. Be warned that these cables will totally expose the sonic characteristics of your system components which may be good for the overall presentation or bad as there will be another issue to address.

I also envy those who don’t (or won’t) hear a difference between cabling. They don’t need to spend the time finding and implementing a cable system well-matched with their system components.

[george daniel]

I'm asking because I noticed a different sound with some Demo cables I got now. Thank you Uncle Ted ;)


I mean why is MIT better? There are other companies who make nice cables like AudioQuest, who don't to anything with network circuits. So why is MIT cables better? Is it because the network is given you higher levels sounds? Doesn't this color the sound?

Because Jesse and Ted said so,;), something(s) inside that box,, for my system,I noticed a more laid back sound, which is good because I thought that it was somewhat bright before.

[inspiredsports]

deleted

[Keiko]

Got my read on this morning and thought this would be an interesting injection to the conversation.

From the MIT website FAQ:

Is there really a difference in digital cables?

Yes there are. The digital signal from a DVD player, CD Transport, or set top box, can transmit a lot of information. There are four common digital connections for this interface. Most common is 75ohm RCA connection, and a Toslink, or “fiber optic” connection between your player and receiver. Higher end connections will be ASE/EBU 110ohm connection or a BNC connector. Whatever the connector they all transmit information in a square wave digital signal. Cable can play a big part in transmitting this signal with less “jitter”, “jitter” equals noise. This noise can be seen on an oscilloscope at the top and bottom of the wave form. This wave form is rising and falling sometimes thousands of times a second like a switch being turned on and off very quickly. Digital Coax cable is available in varying speeds to which it allows signal to flow. They are measured in a unit of VP, or “velocity of propagation”. Cables that have a “low VP” will not transmit digital signal as well as cables that have a “high VP”. Other materials like silver and Tri-poly-ethylene di-electric material will aid in increasing the VP of the cable. The number associated with a VP rating is the percentage of the speed of light that a signal is traveling over the conductors. MIT Digital Interfaces have one of the highest VP Ratings in the industry. Coupled with our patented parallel digital networks, nothing works better at giving you better bass, clearer mid-range and more articulate high frequencies, with out being harsh or fatiguing.


Can an average person "Hear" the difference?

You bet! One of our favorite demonstrations is to use "lamp cord" as speaker cables, and then add the AVt S CI-modules to each channel and play the difference. In four days during the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, we thrilled audiences more than 30 times a day. There were none present that claimed to "not" hear the dramatic improvement in articulation, detail and a genuine sense of "being there."

[Lovegasoline]

Here is a very useful and informative page about speaker wire presented by famous audio engineer and inventor Roger Russell, Director of Acoustic Research at McIntosh Laboratory, Inc. and the originator of McIntosh Loudspeakers:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

He presents scientific research, listening tests, as well as the social and economic history of high end speaker wire.

Included on the same page is a listening test devised by Gordon Gow, President of McIntosh Laboratory, where he demonstrated various speaker wires to dealers and customers.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#gordongow

Am I stirring the pot or drinking the soup? I'm not sure. But I am as curious of the whys and why nots as anyone else as I currently need to buy a pair of ICs.

Disclosure: I have no affiliation with Mcintosh and have never owned their products.

My 2 channel system:
McCormack DNA 125
Adcom GFP 565 Preamp
Meridian 508.20 CDP
Polk LSi9
Music Hall MMF5 TT
Kimber Kable Hero IC
Home Depot Speaker Wire

[Face]

Again, more "tests" from 60 year old men.

Btw, have you ever heard any McIntosh products from when either of those two were still working at McIntosh?

[Keiko]

There's that Roger Russell article again. LOL...How many times has that been posted I wonder? I myself even posted it when I first joined CP. :o

[polkatese]

To borrow the word from Obewan Kenobi: Trust You Ears, Luke...


:)

[Keiko]

To borrow the word from Obewan Kenobi: Trust You Ears, Luke...


:)
and good polkies that know already. I can't even begin to convey all the excellent advice and knowledge I've gotten since I've met up with this crew. Not enough bandwidth. ;)

[inspiredsports]

I was skeptical at first also, and was directed to the Gow articles. I probably posted a link to them here at CP myself.

I've been involved in many heart to heart discussions here and at AK, and several listening test at friends houses that led me to upgrade my interconnects and cables in a big way.

I've studied the photos of the "master" and "slave" boxes Gow used. Wouldn't the switches, terminal blocks, light bulbs and whatever else is inside affect the signal in ways beyond those of a simple amplifier to speaker connection?

[inspiredsports]

Uh oh! Am I gunna have to upgrade my speaker cables now to? :D ;)

I don't want to get you in trouble with the missus, but I would drop the 8' AVt-2 Speaker Interfaces to 2 if everything is in the same box when I ship tomorrow. You would have a perfectly matched set then if you ever want to resell. :)

Greg

[Keiko]

I don't want to get you in trouble with the missus, but I would drop the 8' AVt-2 Speaker Interfaces to 2 if everything is in the same box when I ship tomorrow. You would have a perfectly matched set then if you ever want to resell. :)

Greg
Thanks for the offer Greg. Pushing the funds already and as much as I'd like to, I just can't afford it right now. Sometimes I have to make sacrifices living in Paradise. ;)

[polkatese]

How about a payment plan with no interest?

ok.ok. I shut up...

[Keiko]

How about a payment plan with no interest?

ok.ok. I shut up...
LOL! You said it, Shuddup! :D

[twanto]

yes, you WILL see the benefit of upgrading.

I guess it's a matter of drawing the line on the sands of the "upgrading" sickness. For the right price, given the choice, if you have budget for signalcable level price but can get MIT for about the same price (even if it's +$100 and you have the extra coins), then go for the MIT.

Isn't copper still copper?

[heiney9]

Isn't copper still copper?

No, there are all grades of different copper as far grain and purity and other properties. Plus, that's just one of many things that make cables different from one another.

[Lovegasoline]

I've studied the photos of the "master" and "slave" boxes Gow used. Wouldn't the switches, terminal blocks, light bulbs and whatever else is inside affect the signal in ways beyond those of a simple amplifier to speaker connection?

That information is currently unavailable to us.
However, even if the switch box had an effect upon the sound, it would impart that effect unilaterally and thus a truly superior sounding speaker wire would be discernible.

There's also the issue of burn in. I've often wondered why used (and thus fully cured and burned-in) ICs and speaker cables do not sell for a higher price, or at least for an equal price, over the cost of new cables...even calculating in minimal wear and tear.

Regarding the comment earlier in this thread about the physical age of Gow and Russell, I do not know what Russells' age was 25 (or more) years ago when these tests were conducted. Furthermore, Russell's claim was that this was not merely a personal indulgence but rather a public service performed by Gow, designed to allow dealers and customers to draw their own conclusions based on their own ears in a carefully controlled double blind listening test. McIntosh had no dog in the fight as they did not market audio cables. To play the devil's advocate, perhaps there was some secret business conflict at the time between McIntosh and Monster Cable, influencing McIntosh's debunking of specialty speaker wire. That doesn't appear to make sense and it seems the opposite occured as Russell later states, "The demand for high quality speaker wire was increasing and appeared to be a new marketing area for several companies. McIntosh did not make or sell speaker wire. The solution seemed very obvious--rather than spend time and effort to create negative sales for McIntosh dealers who were beginning to sell speaker wire, it seemed best to encourage the speaker owner/customer to consult with the dealer about what speaker wire to use. Consequently, I no longer recommended the kind of wire or wire sizes in the speaker manuals." That reads to me like a concession to the audio dealers' interest in making a significant profit selling specialty wire and cable.

Perhaps this is a jump to state, but if McIntosh Labs throughout all of this testing and commentary on cables believed there was superior cabling and that their equipment's performance was being hamstrung by inferior cables, it is very likely that they would have introduced into their extensive product line a hi-end cable manufacturing/sales business as well.

I suppose the only true test is an authentic and precisely controlled double blind test with appropriate equipment to ensure rapid switching and identical sound levels.

I too am curious why MIT cables are better.

My 2¢.


Additional Disclosure:
My McCormack DNA-125 has a Kimber Kable power cord. The Kimber cord was included in the sale.

[inspiredsports]

. . . it would impart that effect unilaterally and thus a truly superior sounding speaker wire would be discernible

Respectfully, I disagree.

I think the manufacturers of tweaked cables make some pretty specific assumptions about the inductance, capacitance and resistance their cables will experience in use. I don't think the existence of the components within the Gow boxes would have been contemplated.

While the effect to the sound of a basic "non-corrected" wire may not be discernible, the ability of a tweaked cable to work may also be negated.

I am burning in some mid-level MIT IC's as we speak, using my headphones for auditioning as I feel this provides a more controlled listening environment. I have control sets of old gold plated Radio Shack IC's and a recently burned in set of Ben's Silver IC's.

I pledge to you, I can hear the difference in each, and the MIT's provide the best (by a wide margin) listening experience after just 56 hours.

[SEH]

Respectfully, I disagree.

I think the manufacturers of tweaked cables make some pretty specific assumptions about the inductance, capacitance and resistance their cables will experience in use.

Monster does this? It was Monster cable in those tests that were done, right? Is it that hard to believe that the tests showed exactly what Monster cable is?

[dorokusai]

"Hearing is believing." - Roger Russell

To keep the comment in context, in an email with Roger a couple years ago, he was commenting on the fact that people do hear differences....real or not. "There's nothing you nor I can say or do that will keep someone from formulating their own criteria, baseline or end result."

I agree. If they do....who cares? If they don't....who cares? Why do so many people take up arms and start waving flags around when either argument comes to light? I've read this same, dry, boring discussion for 5-6 years on 9-10 forums. They all repeat the same information, delve into the wordy depths of new information, establish the education level of half the parties involved...or lack thereof, with the finality of everything being reposted and argued 4-6 months later.

I'm sure there is some strange satisfaction that if you thwarted at least ONE person from spending $25 or...(aghast) $100 on an interconnect, you have finally....finally achieved the level of Master. The opposite side is also proud upon winning, beats the chest wildly, with a flagrant display of private parts only to settle down and pick lice from one another for a few more months.

I'll never understand why people overthink this hobby as there's so many things to enjoy. When did it become a crime to hear or not hear something? I like when I read about happy folks with their gear, whatever the hell it is.

Please carry on and rage against the machine for you are the One....the One who will guide us through the darkness of audio witchcraft and slovenly love for the obscene reproduction of music.

Me? I'm going to go rock out on my headphones and forget about this thread in mere seconds.

[GV#27]

"There's nothing you nor I can say or do that will keep someone from formulating their own criteria, baseline or end result."

I agree. If they do....who cares? If they don't....who cares? Why do so many people take up arms and start waving flags around when either argument comes to light? Bingo.

[inspiredsports]

Monster does this? It was Monster cable in those tests that were done, right? Is it that hard to believe that the tests showed exactly what Monster cable is?

Monster is not "tweaked cable" so you are right. It could not sound different. What I'm posing is that even a truly valid cable system may not work well with this type of test.

[WilliamM2]

Monster is not "tweaked cable" so you are right. It could not sound different. What I'm posing is that even a truly valid cable system may not work well with this type of test.

Just out of curiosity, what constitutes a "tweaked cable"? What are the requirements?

[Keiko]

These are not the Droids you're looking for. He can go about his business.

I know I'm gunna be happy by the end of the week Mark. :D

[Keiko]

Check that...Happier! ;)

[reeltrouble1]

I'm asking because I noticed a different sound with some Demo cables I got now. Thank you Uncle Ted ;)

Your welcome DJ, my pleasure.

RT1

[SEH]

Just out of curiosity, what constitutes a "tweaked cable"? What are the requirements?

Maybe a cable with some frequency filtering device attached? Surely that would sound different from a plain cable.

[NJPOLKER]

"Hearing is believing." - Roger Russell

To keep the comment in context, in an email with Roger a couple years ago, he was commenting on the fact that people do hear differences....real or not. "There's nothing you nor I can say or do that will keep someone from formulating their own criteria, baseline or end result."

I agree. If they do....who cares? If they don't....who cares? Why do so many people take up arms and start waving flags around when either argument comes to light? I've read this same, dry, boring discussion for 5-6 years on 9-10 forums. They all repeat the same information, delve into the wordy depths of new information, establish the education level of half the parties involved...or lack thereof, with the finality of everything being reposted and argued 4-6 months later.

I'm sure there is some strange satisfaction that if you thwarted at least ONE person from spending $25 or...(aghast) $100 on an interconnect, you have finally....finally achieved the level of Master. The opposite side is also proud upon winning, beats the chest wildly, with a flagrant display of private parts only to settle down and pick lice from one another for a few more months.

I'll never understand why people overthink this hobby as there's so many things to enjoy. When did it become a crime to hear or not hear something? I like when I read about happy folks with their gear, whatever the hell it is.

Please carry on and rage against the machine for you are the One....the One who will guide us through the darkness of audio witchcraft and slovenly love for the obscene reproduction of music.

Me? I'm going to go rock out on my headphones and forget about this thread in mere seconds.

Regardless of the topic, I think the members here really hate it when information is placed in the forum that is not legitimate. The thought of a new guy reading something not legit and going with it just is not right. I know I know who's to say who's right. The answer is, when responding to questions the guys/members jump in and give there heart felt opinions which are generally well thought out and accurate. Passion is a great asset you just have to harness it sometimes.

[inspiredsports]

Just out of curiosity, what constitutes a "tweaked cable"? What are the requirements?

In my opinion, things like silver content (DH Labs Silver Sonic), multiple stranding configurations (Canare Star Quad), hollow oval configurations (Analysis Plus), Teflon insulation, and most specifically, MIT and Transparent network components in the signal path, to name a few.

The designers start with a very clear therory about the impedence, capacitance and resistance values they want to see from end to end, and they design toward that goal. They believe it makes a difference versus simply going with a fat gauge wire and some plated connectors.

And sure, some of it is pure marketing savvy. But the best part is when they really get it right. We get to decide that with our ears.

[Fongolio]

The latest issue (Feb '09) of The Absolute Sound has an article on MIT cables.

[inspiredsports]

Their site (enjoythemusic.com) shows the very brief synopsis . . .

"MIT Oracle MA-X Interconnect and Oracle MA Speaker Cable: Sure, they're wildly expensive, but MIT's tops-of-the-line are worth every penny, says Robert Harley."

I'm going to try to get my hands on that article, with the understanding that $25,000 8' Speaker Cables and $8,000 1 Meter Interconnects might be packed with a little more "tweak" than the AVt and Shotgun lines us mere mortals might score for our systems.

[Lovegasoline]

"Hearing is believing." - Roger Russell

To keep the comment in context, in an email with Roger a couple years ago, he was commenting on the fact that people do hear differences....real or not. "There's nothing you nor I can say or do that will keep someone from formulating their own criteria, baseline or end result."

I agree and that IS the context in which I have taken all Mr. Russell's statements and everyone else's statements for that matter. Unfortunately, that doesn't really change anything. It does underline the importance of the double blind test conducted under controlled conditions. It seems that in the latter context, imaginary claims can be better understood for what they are and we perhaps get an opportunity to understand how our biases interact with our perceptions. Personally, I'm trying to qualify and comprehend my own skepticism which in the end places me squarely in the same pot as everyone else.

Dorokusai, I am not directing this post to you specifically. The point is if we were all indifferent to this topic, we wouldn't bother reading ...let alone posting. In this regard we are not dissimilar.

These questions are timely for me because as I stated earlier, I am in need of purchasing a pair of ICs. Therefore it IS time to revisit the competing claims in the marketplace of one product over the other. It's the reason I read this thread to begin with. Furthermore, I am truly interested in the OP's question: 'Why is MIT Cables Better'.

I for one am not losing any sleep over this, nor has discussing this diminished (in any quantifiable degree ;)) the pleasure I gain from listening to music reproduced by my system. Also, I'm an artist, a painter, so I am not unaware of the difficulties of coming to consensus regarding, for lack of a better term, The Good, The True, and The Beautiful. Nonetheless, I still need to buy a pair of IC cables.

[PS: NJPOLKER, it's impossible to tell if your comment was directed towards me or others. True, I mostly lurk here, but nonetheless I've been a member here for over three years, have consumed allot of info from this forum, and am not 'new' by any measure.]

[reeltrouble1]

thats just wonderful, now go stand in the corner, rest your neck, and play with yourself.

RT1

[Lovegasoline]

Me? I'm going to go rock out on my headphones and forget about this thread in mere seconds.

Wait a second more.

What cabling do you use in your system? Do you have experience with the MITs?

[heiney9]

I agree and that IS the context in which I have taken all Mr. Russell's statements and everyone else's statements for that matter. Unfortunately, that doesn't really change anything. It does underline the importance of the double blind test conducted under controlled conditions. It seems that in the latter context, imaginary claims can be better understood for what they are and we perhaps get an opportunity to understand how our biases interact with our perceptions. Personally, I'm trying to qualify and comprehend my own skepticism which in the end places me squarely in the same pot as everyone else.

Dorokusai, I am not directing this post to you specifically. The point is if we were all indifferent to this topic, we wouldn't bother reading ...let alone posting. In this regard we are not dissimilar.

These questions are timely for me because as I stated earlier, I am in need of purchasing a pair of ICs. Therefore it IS time to revisit the competing claims in the marketplace of one product over the other. It's the reason I read this thread to begin with. Furthermore, I am truly interested in the OP's question: 'Why is MIT Cables Better'.

I for one am not losing any sleep over this, nor has discussing this diminished (in any quantifiable degree ;)) the pleasure I gain from listening to music reproduced by my system. Also, I'm an artist, a painter, so I am not unaware of the difficulties of coming to consensus regarding, for lack of a better term, The Good, The True, and The Beautiful. Nonetheless, I still need to buy a pair of IC cables.

[PS: NJPOLKER, it's impossible to tell if your comment was directed towards me or others. True, I mostly lurk here, but nonetheless I've been a member here for over three years, have consumed allot of info from this forum, and am not 'new' by any measure.]

The only way to know for sure is to demo some cables in your rig in your environment

[NJPOLKER]

[PS: NJPOLKER, it's impossible to tell if your comment was directed towards me or others. True, I mostly lurk here, but nonetheless I've been a member here for over three years, have consumed allot of info from this forum, and am not 'new' by any measure.]

Lovegasoline
Its not directed at any one person just an opinion. I like the passion our members put into what they believe to be true.
Myself, Since I have heard improvements when replacing wires/cables and IC I wish I did it a long time ago. No, I don't use MIT's yet but may use them in the future.
I replaced Monster wires with Audioquest type 4's and heard a better overall sound. Then replaced the AQ's with Morrow Audio wires and found them to improve my listening experience greatly. Clarity, separation, and sound stage is tremendous. The cables and IC have allowed my SDA SRS speakers perform.

[Keiko]

The only way to know for sure is to demo some cables in your rig in your environment
And that's the best advice you're going to get anywhere. Good call heiney.

[NJPOLKER]

Lovegasoline
What length of IC or IC's are you looking at?

[Hawkeye]

thats just wonderful, now go stand in the corner, rest your neck, and play with yourself.

RT1

In my opinion, harsh, uncalled for and rude and added nothing to discussion.

Gordon

[Keiko]

thats just wonderful, now go stand in the corner, rest your neck, and play with yourself.

RT1
Where's the chin rest? PM me if you're not sure what a chin rest is. :p

[F1nut]

thats just wonderful, now go stand in the corner, rest your neck, and play with yourself.

Rt1

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[reeltrouble1]

In my opinion, harsh, uncalled for and rude and added nothing to discussion.

Gordon


Please feel free to join him.

RT1

[Lovegasoline]

Lovegasoline
What length of IC or IC's are you looking at?


Since you ask (I'm not trying to derail the thread from the OP's topic):

1 meter or .5 meter RCAs*.

I'm leaning towards maybe another pair of Heros or perhaps PBJ. Most important is that they are well constructed to ensure solid connections, not a mere $3 toy throw away. From everything I've studied, RCA connectors are one of the least suitably designed audio connectors ever introduced and are a throwback. Why they are still so prolifically used in high end audio, other than force of habit, is a huge question mark. That they are produced in configurations costing thousands upon thousands of dollars with claims to be the ne plus ultra of audio connectors is somewhat ludicrous to my thinking.

I owned a pair of .5 meter Kimber Kable KCAG Silver Interconnects With WBT 0147's. Swapping those out for 1.0 meter Kimber Kable Hero Interconnect with WBT 0144's I could discern no significant diminution in the music. Admittedly, this was not a blind nor even double blind test, nor was it very 'controlled'.
At the time, perhaps my listening was less critical, it's hard to say. It would be a treat to do a double blind test and I would consider it a great opportunity to learn.

*[I'm in the process of rearranging my space and I also need a new audio stand. I had really hoped to design and build my own (I have a wood shop an a friend has a metal shop) but for reasons not worth going into, it doesn't look like that will happen any time soon. So, I'll need to settle on whatever good deal I can find on a rack that's functional, attractive, and will suit the decor & my budget...no great luck so far. I mention this because rack shelf spacing...enough space to keep the amp cool, will dictate the IC length].

[dkg999]

The recognition of, and acting upon, a subtle hint delivered via the elegance of written communication is something that has become lost in modern society.

[Ricardo]

In my opinion, harsh, uncalled for and rude and added nothing to discussion.

Gordon


True, but funny as hell.

[zombie boy 2000]

Tedwick ALWAYS delivers the goods. Good on him.

[Keiko]

Just Teddles injecting his brand of humor. :)

[heiney9]

In my opinion, harsh, uncalled for and rude and added nothing to discussion.

Gordon

FYI, I have Chill Pills available..............$6 for a bottle of 20.

Really, the seriousness on CP lately is too much.

H9

[reeltrouble1]

it began faintly, such so he was not sure it was ever even there, yet the echo of the voice began to grow, repeating, louder and louder, until the reverbration of this one thing pounded inside his head, then suddenly without escape and great dispair there came a submittal and down the hole he went, coveting the thing all the way down.

RT1--That's my line now bite my hook.

[Keiko]

It's that damn comet heiney. It's fockin' up everything. It's what killed the dinosaurs to. :eek:

[zombie boy 2000]

Really, the seriousness on CP lately is too much.
H9

I feel like I have to wear an effin' black tie every time I log on of late. Would someone, ANYONE, take a nibble at RT's hook? I could really go for a laugh.

[Keiko]

In my opinion, harsh, uncalled for and rude and added nothing to discussion.

Gordon
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true if not for RT1's generosity in letting polkies try out some cables. Would we even be having this discussion right now?


I'm asking because I noticed a different sound with some Demo cables I got now. Thank you Uncle Ted ;)

[reeltrouble1]

hmmm...........well Ricardo as well.

RT1 is kinda like that Poltergeist in your closet, I already know what scares anti hi-fi audio insurgents.

RT1--you keep biting I'll keep reeling.

[inspiredsports]

If I ever get sent to the corner, can I stand and play in my SDA sweet spot instead ?? :D :D :D :D

[polkatese]

If I ever get sent to the corner, can I stand and play in my SDA sweet spot instead ?? :D :D :D :D

Can I play with Jesse's S1 too? please pretty please, with sugar on top please.

[reeltrouble1]

the instructions were for you to rest your neck and play with yourself, I am sure this has a different meaning for each of you.

RT1

[polkatese]

I need visual aids and sensory stimulus to play with myself before I can have a happy ending.

[Keiko]

I need visual aids and sensory stimulus to play with myself before I can have a happy ending.
You're gunna go blind if you keep that up. :p

[polkatese]

LOL! awww.....my eyes... ;)

[disneyjoe7]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true if not for RT1's generosity in letting polkies try out some cables. Would we even be having this discussion right now?



No you correct, S3-MIT interconnect wires win. I'll play with them tomorrow to replace to see what each cable is doing for me. :)


Not sure I understand how they work, or why I like them but I do.

[MillerLiteScott]

They just sound real good and there is magic in the boxes.

That's good enough for me.

[reeltrouble1]

No you correct, S3-MIT interconnect wires win. I'll play with them tomorrow to replace to see what each cable is doing for me. :)

Excellent Steve, I have heard them with the Parasound and they do have nice synergy. As a matter of fact I would say Parasound and MIT are a great step into hi-fi magic, not suprised to see you digging the sound with your rig and I would bet your highs sound a little sweeter as well as the MIT do a good job in bringing out the crispness in the RTi line without any etching in the treble.

RT1

[reeltrouble1]

Steve,

Getting back to your post question. Well, of course there are the network boxes which are of course a filter of sorts, now you can never add something to a signal just remove unwanted things, MIT keeps the box make-up close to the vest but you can read on the website about the articulation points, now the make up of the wire is important as well. You should note MIT does not use any silver, you see silver is known to attentuate the treble frequencies, you often see owners of silver cables state when they first heard them in their rig they sounded etchy/harsh/forward/bright pick your word, as the cables burn in a bit the effect is reported to lessen or at the very least it becomes "normal" to the listener and less distracting.

Now although silver delivers the highs it is known to be a poor conducter for the lower bass frequencies, given the boxes and copper wire improved bass response is often first noted by folks who begin using MIT cables.

As you found out, there is certainly something going on.

RT1

[Erik Tracy]

Steve,

Getting back to your post question. Well, of course there are the network boxes which are of course a filter of sorts, now you can never add something to a signal just remove unwanted things, MIT keeps the box make-up close to the vest but you can read on the website about the articulation points, now the make up of the wire is important as well. You should note MIT does not use any silver, you see silver is known to attentuate the treble frequencies, you often see owners of silver cables state when they first heard them in their rig they sounded etchy/harsh/forward/bright pick your word, as the cables burn in a bit the effect is reported to lessen or at the very least it becomes "normal" to the listener and less distracting.

Now although silver delivers the highs it is known to be a poor conducter for the lower bass frequencies, given the boxes and copper wire improved bass response is often first noted by folks who begin using MIT cables.

As you found out, there is certainly something going on.

RT1


Sir,
Did you mean that silver 'accentuates' the treble -hence making them brighter?

Attenuate, to me, means a decrease.

Just trying to accurately keep up with this interesting discussion.

Respectfully,
Erik

[F1nut]

Yeah, that's what he meant.

[reeltrouble1]

thanks Erik, good catch.

Sometimes only F1 can decipher my meanings, kinda scary isnt it???

RT1

[disneyjoe7]

Steve,

Getting back to your post question. Well, of course there are the network boxes which are of course a filter of sorts, now you can never add something to a signal just remove unwanted things, MIT keeps the box make-up close to the vest but you can read on the website about the articulation points, now the make up of the wire is important as well. You should note MIT does not use any silver, you see silver is known to attentuate the treble frequencies, you often see owners of silver cables state when they first heard them in their rig they sounded etchy/harsh/forward/bright pick your word, as the cables burn in a bit the effect is reported to lessen or at the very least it becomes "normal" to the listener and less distracting.

Now although silver delivers the highs it is known to be a poor conducter for the lower bass frequencies, given the boxes and copper wire improved bass response is often first noted by folks who begin using MIT cables.

As you found out, there is certainly something going on.

RT1

Damn Sir, you nailed it. (And yes got what you posted about "Attenuate" I mean "Accentuates")

I played with all my interconnects I have own or on loan in the house.

MIT S-3 interconnects

AudioQuest Diamondbacks

SignalCable Analog II

Or Ben's Silver's


You nailed the silvers I missing bass. I like the highs, mids but...

Of all of them I enjoy the MIT S-3's the best hands down. Seems to have it all, Bass, Mids, Highs. The most expensive but the best sounding :(

[F1nut]

The most expensive but the best sounding

You have to pay to play. :D

[disneyjoe7]

Isn't that true :)

[steveinaz]

As much as I would like to try the Shotgun, too rich for my blood. I also couldn't justify a cable that cost just slightly less than the speakers it was connected to.

[disneyjoe7]

But that gets you thinking about the rest of it ;)

[Ricardo]

As much as I would like to try the Shotgun, too rich for my blood. I also couldn't justify a cable that cost just slightly less than the speakers it was connected to.

Would you pay $300 for a CDP that makes your rig sound better? Or for an amp? Don't look at it as you are paying for a cable...look at it as paying for better sound ;)

Get in line in the demo and decide if the improvement is worth the investment.

[Face]

Would you pay $300 for a CDP that makes your rig sound better? Or for an amp? Don't look at it as you are paying for a cable...look at it as paying for better sound ;)

Get in line in the demo and decide if the improvement is worth the investment.
Exactly, look at it as another component in the chain.

[NotaSuv]

Is there a hearable improvement reguardless source quality? yes I do realize total crap produces crap, but will it improve the sound of a nice entry level rig as much as a top of the line rig?Havent had the pleasure of listening to them but do see lots of postive remarks..and yes I do believe cables can play a huge role in overall sound quality..have upgraded a few times and pleased with each one..looking for a cable upgrade next.thanks

[steveinaz]

Exactly, look at it as another component in the chain.

yeah, but an $1100 "component" I just can't see it; but understand those who would make such an investment. I would do a speaker upgrade long before I'd slap a grand down on wire.

[pearsall001]

You have to pay to play. :D

Sounds like you work in Washington or for MIT's marketing dept. Or maybe both! :D

[MillerLiteScott]

My speaker wire cost more than my speakers including all the mods and I still think it was probably the best money I spent.

[Polkitup2]

Why are MIT cables better? I spent a couple hours today trying to find out. I compared some ICs including my MIT Shotgun S3s. I ran them between my Marantz SA-8001 and Musical Fidelity A1 (2008 model) Here's the list:

freebie white and red patch cables = free
Monster THX something or another = $25 MSRP
Transparent Data Link = $75 MSRP
Audioquest Diamondback =$150 MSRP
Audioquest Viper = $225 MSRP?
MIT Shotgun S3 = $549 MSRP

First off, I was really surpirsed at how well the freebie cables performed, I expected much worse performance. They got the job of producing sound done but didn't have a lot of manners. Second, although there was an increase in refinement as I progressed up the food chain, I was somewhat surprised that from the freebie cable through the AQ Diamondback, the basic tonal characteristic of the sound was the same. I found the Vipers to be better sounding than any of the less expensive cables. The MITs sounded fundamentally different than any of the other cables. I mean not a small barely audible difference, but something immediately noticeable. The MITs at first sounded like an extra helping of mid bass had been poured over the entire sound spectrum, vocals were thick, highs rolled off, and the overall presentation was dark compared to the Audioquest Viper which had a lively and more colorful presentation. At this point the victor was definately the AQ Viper, but wait - I adjusted the impedence setting on the MITs from the low to the middle setting. BIG difference. At this point I would describe the MITs as having better bass, and here is the imortant part, less shrillness on the leading edge when the singer first begins to sing a word than the Audioquest cables. I often find the leading syllable in vocals to be somewhat shrill or harsh to my ears. The MITs seem to tone that down. So I am going to keep the MITs for now. Are they better than the Audioquest cables, maybe, they definately sound different. I must say that I prefer the looks of the AQ cables and like their RCA connections. The AQ cables just seem to fit the posts perfectly and look nice. To me the MITs look clunky and dated with their big barrel locking RCAs and the "bricks". Nevertheles, based on this experience I would like to try the MIT shotgun speakers cables at some point. :)

[F1nut]

I adjusted the impedence setting on the MITs from the low to the middle setting. BIG difference.

Ummmm....yeah, that's why you have to know what the input impedance of whatever you are hooking them up to is.


To me the MITs look clunky and dated with their big barrel locking RCAs and the "bricks".

Ok, I'm scratching my head on that one.

[pearsall001]

yeah, but an $1100 "component" I just can't see it; but understand those who would make such an investment. I would do a speaker upgrade long before I'd slap a grand down on wire.

I'll second that. As PT Barnum once said...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[SEH]

Ok, I'm scratching my head on that one.

Sure, the RCAs coming from my 8 track back in the 70s had bricks on them. Yours didn't? They were painted in wild dayglo colors too. Do stay away from the plain brown ones though. I've heard reports that the brown bricks are not specifically too good.

[Polkitup2]

Ok, I'm scratching my head on that one.

The network boxes, they look like sponge Bob's testicles dangling behind my audio rack :D

[F1nut]

I don't even want to know how you know what sponge Bob's testicles look like.

[F1nut]

Phil, knowing what you use, you shouldn't be talking.

[pearsall001]

Phil, knowing what you use, you shouldn't be talking.

Jesse, didn't Joe tell you...I sold off all my expensive cables & replaced them all with Monoprice cables. The synergy is to die for & my wallet is still full!! :D :eek:

[janmike]

The network boxes, they look like sponge Bob's testicles dangling behind my audio rack :D

That is one hell of an analogy - worthy of signature placement, but not mine. :D

[Face]

The network boxes, they look like sponge Bob's testicles dangling behind my audio rack :D

I know what you mean. :D
http://www.cleanandquiet.com/upload/store/LSiC.jpg



And is the title of this thread driving anyone else crazy? It's "Why ARE MIT cables better?", not is.

[george daniel]

Okay,, here's one,, currently have T-2 SC's,, what level would ya'll suggest as a reasonable/significant step up? Seriously.

[MillerLiteScott]

I know what you mean. :D
http://www.cleanandquiet.com/upload/store/LSiC.jpg



And is the title of this thread driving anyone else crazy? It's "Why ARE MIT cables better?", not is.

Yes it are.

[disneyjoe7]

I know what you mean. :D
http://www.cleanandquiet.com/upload/store/LSiC.jpg



And is the title of this thread driving anyone else crazy? It's "Why ARE MIT cables better?", not is.


I was trying to figure out why a filter sounded better? Why MIT cable are better? You're right. Sorry, maybe a mod should fix that title :)

[F1nut]

The network boxes are not filters, it has to do with timing. MIT has a bunch of white papers on their site worth a read.

[reeltrouble1]

Damn Sir, you nailed it. (And yes got what you posted about "Attenuate" I mean "Accentuates")

I played with all my interconnects I have own or on loan in the house.

MIT S-3 interconnects

AudioQuest Diamondbacks

SignalCable Analog II

Or Ben's Silver's


You nailed the silvers I missing bass. I like the highs, mids but...

Of all of them I enjoy the MIT S-3's the best hands down. Seems to have it all, Bass, Mids, Highs. The most expensive but the best sounding :(

The inability of silver to deliver full solid bass fequencies is the metals biggest downfall.

of course nobody likes their baby called ugly.

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[SEH]

The network boxes are not filters, it has to do with timing. MIT has a bunch of white papers on their site worth a read.

I didn't find the white papers to be all that informative. Their patents are informative, and describe filters. Can you explain what these network boxes are, if they aren't the devices described in the patents?

[F1nut]

Give them a call, they can explain it better than I can.

[Erik Tracy]

The inability of silver to deliver full solid bass fequencies is the metals biggest downfall.

of course nobody likes their baby called ugly.

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I have read that AQ interconnects get respectable recommendations - but - what is the opinion of their higher end ICs (such as the King Cobra, Columbia, Colorado, Sky) that use copper cable but Silver for the RCA connectors?

Does having silver, only in the connectors, result in the drawbacks attributed to silver?

Erik

[Keiko]

Well, got my MIT AVt2's today and I'm liking what I hear a lot. Not burned in yet of course, but the highs sound a bit more laid back to me and the bass is a bit more forward than what I have been experiencing. Just an initial impression. Once these get cooked in a little more and I spend time with them, I'll post more. Big thanks to heiney, polkatese, daboyz, face and especially inspiredsports for all your help. Hope I didn't miss anyone. :o

[polkatese]

Congrats Keiko. Enjoy your new found sound and details.

[Face]

I didn't find the white papers to be all that informative. Their patents are informative, and describe filters. Can you explain what these network boxes are, if they aren't the devices described in the patents?


"This is a common misconception. And it’s common because whether anybody wants to admit it or not, a cable is by its very nature a low-pass filter. But the circuitry inside our network boxes does not act to filter out anything. Instead, they “tune up” the portions of the audible bandwidth that are not performing optimally as they pass through the cable. This is what we call Multipole Technology. The long and short of it is that you’ll hear more articulate high frequencies from your Townshend tweeters when you connect them with our interfaces.

I refer you to our website where you can read more about Multipole Technology: http://www.mitcables.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=43

You may also wish to read Bruce’s whitepapers and patents. You can do that in the Reference Library of the website.

Also, check out the recent issue of The Absolute Sound if you’d like to see the inside of one of our cables: http://www.avguide.com/theabsolutesound/

Best,

Gavin Fish
Global Sales Manager, MIT Cables"

[SEH]

"This is a common misconception. And it’s common because whether anybody wants to admit it or not, a cable is by its very nature a low-pass filter. But the circuitry inside our network boxes does not act to filter out anything. Instead, they “tune up” the portions of the audible bandwidth that are not performing optimally as they pass through the cable. "

If they don't want to call them filters, fine. I don't think a passive device can amplify these portions of the audible bandwidth that are not performing optimally, so if they got perceivably tuned up, something else got tuned out. Most people would call that filtering, even if it was only filtering unwanted noise or something beyond the audible frequency range.


You may also wish to read Bruce’s whitepapers and patents.

I did.

"Audio signal transmission system with noise suppression network" US Patent 4,954,787
In an audio signal transmission system comprising an interface circuit is connected across the output terminals of an audio signal source or across the input terminals of an audio signal transmission cable coupled to the source. The interface circuit comprises either a discrete capacitance or a distributed capacitance in series with a discrete resistor. The value of the capacitance and the resistance in the interface circuit is chosen such that the time constant of the cable with the interface circuit produces in response to noise a signal having a frequency which is above the audio frequency spectrum but within the passband of the amplifier to which it is coupled.

That seems to be a filter.

"Method & apparatus for reducing attenuation & phase shift" US Patent 5,123,052
In an audio signal transmission system having a source of audio signals and a load coupled thereto by means of a first and second transmission line, a discrete capacitor is coupled in parallel with one or both of the transmission lines. The magnitude of the capacitor is as large as stable operation of the amplifier to which it is connected will permit.

That seems to be a filter.

"Audio signal transmission line with low-pass filter (series or parallel inductance)" US Patent 5,142,252
An audio signal transmission line comprising an additional inductance inserted in series with the line and/or coupled in parallel therewith near the load end of the line for providing a low pass filter which overcomes parasitic and dielectric capacitance of the line so as to reduce audio frequency noise generated in the line by low level and low frequency audio signals. The magnitude of the inductance used may vary widely, e.g. from 20 microhenries to 1 millihenry, depending on the length of the line and the space available.

That seems to be a filter.

Is there something wrong with a filter? The brick obviously changes the sound of the cable to something we prefer. I'm not sure how else they would change the sound, other than the methods of filtering described in the patents.

[F1nut]

Yeah Mike, that's what I was talking about, thanks for posting that info from MIT.

SEH, it may be splitting hairs, so call them filters or whatever. The bottom line, as you stated, is something we prefer.

[disneyjoe7]

I got to think they are filters more then anything else. Which drive me nuts not fully understanding why they sound better, but just to see a lot of fluff about them. IMHO

Not that I found them enjoyable very nice sounding and worth a coin or so. I will own some, some day.

[F1nut]

Why does this bother you so? I mean, do you understand why one tube sounds better than another or why one amp sounds better when they have the same specs? No, I know you don't, so simply roll with the flow, buy some and be happy.

[disneyjoe7]

Why does this bother you so? I mean, do you understand why one tube sounds better than another or why one amp sounds better when they have the same specs? No, I know you don't, so simply roll with the flow, buy some and be happy.


Yes I have an idea why tubes or tube vs. tube sound better. I'm a complete geek look here... www.dvrblackbox.com built it for people. People love it designed PCB, microchip code (needed to learn it from scratch) built a web page (learned that from scratch or my own perhaps a little help here or there) Everything is mine, may have been placed here for a geek need or two who knows.


It's not my writing skills that's for sure. Maybe for what I can fix, I can fix it because I understand something. ;)

[Mike21]

[SIZE="3"]I have a pair of Music Hose (not the second generation 750s) which I believe were the first speaker cables produced by MIT - probaly '84 or '85. Thay do not have black boxes. On my Dali Icon 6s the Hose sound better than my Audience Au24s. But, the Au sounds better with my Polk M50s. Go figure. :rolleyes:
Mike21

[metal83]

So i got some AVt-2 speaker interfaces, and some AVt-2 IC's, 1.5 pairs of each. I ordered them from Greg (inspiredsports) this past Thursday afternoon and received them this morning, wow that's some fast shipping!

I haven't hooked them up yet, but i will be doing that later today hopefully. Considering these cables are replacing the Walmart 16ga cable i have, and i currently have no IC's, i'd say this is quite an upgrade for me, especially for my first set of nice cables and IC's.

I'm very excited! :D

[danz1906]

So i got some AVt-2 speaker interfaces, and some AVt-2 IC's, 1.5 pairs of each. I ordered them from Greg (inspiredsports) this past Thursday afternoon and received them this morning, wow that's some fast shipping!

I haven't hooked them up yet, but i will be doing that later today hopefully. Considering these cables are replacing the Walmart 16ga cable i have, and i currently have no IC's, i'd say this is quite an upgrade for me, especially for my first set of nice cables and IC's.

I'm very excited! :D

You should hear a big difference:D:D:D

[metal83]

I hope so! lol :D

[reeltrouble1]

Maybe for what I can fix, I can fix it because I understand something. ;)


I believe I have heard this expressed in somewhat different terms.

Things will always break so they can be fixed, keep reaching for the unreachable star.

I just put a new set of MIT S-1 cables into the rig, immediate result is more defined clairity of the bass.

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[Ricardo]

I just put a new set of MIT S-1 cables into the rig, immediate result is more defined clairity of the bass.

RT1

Really. My experience (with S3) is that they sound like crap when new. So I'm thinking when they break in you're in for a real treat.

[reeltrouble1]

Yes Ricardo that has been my experience as well with the S-3, I am sure the S-1 will get better with some time too.

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[Polkitup2]

Ok MIT effectionatos, I've had the S3 IC's for a few weeks and did some A/B stuff with my AQ Cables and the MITs won, so the question is... Is the biggest MIT bang with the ICs or the speaker cables?

[Face]

I found MIT's a little bass shy out of the box, so I'm glad you're seeing an improvement already.

As for biggest bang for the buck, I found the I/C's made the biggest improvement, but the speaker cables are still worth the investment due to the further improvement in imaging, coherence, etc...

[reeltrouble1]

Polkit,

I would go with the connects first if you cannot do both at once.

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