Considering selling my Carver equipment...

[TSWisla]

Will I regret it? I own the c-4000 preamp and m-1.5t amp and after reading many opinions online, am considering to sell them and get "something else". Any opinions/stories to share?

[NJPOLKER]

I have a M-1.5t and since its old (20 + years) it should go to the shop for a rebuild. The cost is anywhere between about $150 to $300. depending who it goes to and what all gets updated. Alot of people like it and it sure has plenty of power.
If you have not been to the Carver web site you should.
Drew

[Early B.]

Get rid of it and try something new.

[nooshinjohn]

Keep the carver stuff... send it to Rita and Bob for a rebuild. I f you think its time for something different go for it, but hold on to the Carver stuff

[TSWisla]

I just don't get it. Some people love the stuff and some hate it and say it is garbage. I thought that it sounded pretty good, but maybe I am missing something...

[Ricardo]

If you like how it sounds, then stay away from the internet. Your wallet will thank you. ;)

[TSWisla]

I know what you mean, but I don't want to be "missing something"...

[heiney9]

If you like how it sounds, then stay away from the internet. Your wallet will thank you. ;)

Ditto!

[Ricardo]

I know what you mean, but I don't want to be "missing something"...


Well, if you really want to go down that road, you will only know when you get your ears on different gear. As you said, some people love Carver, some people hate it, and it's the same with any other manufacturers. Maybe you find something you like better, maybe you don't. It's a long and expensive journey ;)

[TSWisla]

Well, if you really want to go down that road, you will only know when you get your ears on different gear. As you said, some people love Carver, some people hate it, and it's the same with any other manufacturers. Maybe you find something you like better, maybe you don't. It's a long and expensive journey ;)

You are right and I appreciate your advice, but can you say anything personally about my setup?

[TNRabbit]

Personally, I find the C-4000 to be noisy (they are very old) and the M1.5t a little too "tubey" sounding for my taste. I switched to Sunfire & have been supremely happy for it. You WILL be spending a lot of extra cash, however. Even used, Sunfire stuff AIN'T cheap~

[steveinaz]

"afraid I might be missing something" are famous last words. Don't mess with success--TRUST ME. When you have listened to system over a number of years, changes can be mighty hard--and usually end in disappointment.

[Ricardo]

You are right and I appreciate your advice, but can you say anything personally about my setup?

I have never heard either.

[heiney9]

"afraid I might be missing something" are famous last words. Don't mess with success--TRUST ME. When you have listened to system over a number of years, changes can be mighty hard--and usually end in disappointment.

It is a very fine line..............the only way to know for sure is do some research.....get together with local polkies (if that's a possiblity) keep what you have to compare with what you get.

I just changed amps after 20+ years.......part of it was my stubborness not to take a few steps but the BIG step up.......and part of it was convincing myself that if it sounded good and I was happy don't chase your tail.

In the end after only spending 2 days with my new amp.............I am thrilled and it turned out to have been well worth the effort, heartache, and constant back and forth!! The old vs. the new is absolutely not a fair comparison.....the new wins w/o question.

Good luck with your journey

H9

[bsoko2]

I know what you mean, but I don't want to be "missing something"...

Age old story. . . some thousands of $$$$$ later and back to where you started. Enjoy what you have!

Bill

[SCompRacer]

Lots of good advice. Avoid it or get involved. You must decide for yourself. I do not regret my audio journey at all. Now I know what I like and rarely demo new gear for myself.

Along with local get togethers, many of us have bought and sold used gear looking for the sound we want. Have a budget for gear and stick to it. You will most likely not break even buying and selling gear, but there is a price for education. Perhaps check out the Chicago Audio Society. They have monthly meetings, and members have get togethers trying different gear.

[george daniel]

+1 on the good advice given here,,, you could sell the carver gear,,post here how much you have to spend on a rig,,, I'm sure that you'll get plenty of advice.;):)

[TSWisla]

I appreciate everyone's advice, thank you. I just have one more thing that I guess I would like to clear up. Is there some inherent problem/flaw with the carver equipment? Let me explain what I was getting at with selling it. I was considering a Parasound 3500 amp. Thank you again.

Tom

[heiney9]

No inherent flaw........however, older gear looses some of it "drive" or character over time. You are probably at that point. I just had a 24 year old pre-amp fixed. But it's an awesome sounding pre-amp and the repair cost me 10% of what a newer (still used) comparable unit would have cost to replace it, so it was worth it.

[nooshinjohn]

send the stuff to Bob and Rita and have them go over it... when it comes back it will be better than new. If still not what you expect then get the parasound. the fact that it has been restored by the man that built it will certainly enhance its value. while its there get him to sign it as well...................

[TNRabbit]

I appreciate everyone's advice, thank you. I just have one more thing that I guess I would like to clear up. Is there some inherent problem/flaw with the carver equipment? Let me explain what I was getting at with selling it. I was considering a Parasound 3500 amp. Thank you again.

Tom

I personally know of one guy who sold his Parasound equipment to specifically purchase Carver gear....

:confused:

[nooshinjohn]

the only inherent flaw with Carver gear is that they no longer make more of it... that said most of them, M1.5t included are so good that most companies still cannot touch it for power and all around performance... a nice 1.5t is still worth around 500 bucks and cannot be beat by new amps at 4 times that price

[TroyD]

I've always been a fan of Carver amps.....the TFM 45/42/m4.0t being top of the heap (yes, even ahead of the Silver 9t's)....the m1.5t was pretty damn good as well. The only amp that I didn't like was the m1.0t. Couldn't unload that fast enough.

I like the preamps ok, but will take a good tube pre any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

BDT

[reeltrouble1]

Depends on you, there is certainly better gear to be had. I had Silver 9t monoblocks, replaced them with something else that did in fact sound much better.

RT1

[erniejade]

It is all personal preference. ... and... Some amplifiers sound better on some speakers then others do.


I.E. this is not high end but a good test.

JBL L150 speakers Kenwood KA 8006 TOTL 1973 amp at 75 per channel. Sounded fantastic on the JBL L150. Put the Same speaker on a NAD, sounded terrible! same speaker on a Integra m5030 sounded good but not as good as the old kenwood.


Same amps, Polk 2.3 Sounded terrible on the kenwood, ok on the NAD and just amazing on the Integra.


Sometimes you have to match up the amps with the speakers.



The carver you have is a solid good amp. Don't let anyone tell you different. It might not be everyone's taste but, there is nothing wrong with it.

I also agree with nooshinjohn sending it to bob and rita. check out the carver boards. for the $ you can't beat it and they will put it back to spec. Now if you want to improve it, send it to RichP714 and he will upgrade it and the power on it.


As other people have warned you already, when you start " looking" for that perfect sound, it is a long hard $$$$$$ road and sometimes you go back to what you had. If you do decide to change amps, I would suggest holding on to the one you have. This way you can do a side by side. It is too hard to go from memory like i thought it sounded like this,,,, you need to be able to switch from A to B side by side.



On a side note, TNRabbit, yes the Sunfire does rock and sound wonderfull!!!!! Love my sig II that is for sure!!

[rlmacklin]

Just to be clear, Bob Carver was the man behind Sunfire ;)


On a side note, TNRabbit, yes the Sunfire does rock and sound wonderfull!!!!! Love my sig II that is for sure!![/QUOTE]

[TNRabbit]

I consider Sunfire to be Bob's best effort (so far).....but just wait; there's more coming down the pike from ol' Bob.

[Erik Tracy]

I also agree with nooshinjohn sending it to bob and rita. check out the carver boards. for the $ you can't beat it and they will put it back to spec. Now if you want to improve it, send it to RichP714 and he will upgrade it and the power on it.


I have my M1.0-t coming back from RichP714 after the mkII mod/upgrade.

The specs promise this will be a monster - and some of the reviews by folks who got this mod say it results in a good SQ step up - even though it is regarded by some as the ugly stepchild of the Carver line ;)

I'll post my own evaluation once I get my amp back and spend some time with it...should be here tomorrow.

[gdb]

If you'd like to know why some don't like Carver stuff...I suspect it's because years ago he took a challenge from Stereophile magazine & a couple of "Hi-End" amp manufacturers to duplicate their sonic traits with his mass produced mid-fi amps. He succeeded so well that he actually had to "worsen" the sound on one to get an exact match! Well....this didn't sit too well with the challengers at all. Like Bose, Monster etc. etc. there's always going to be someone/thing that people will band together against because "everyone else is doing it"! I personally admire Bob Carver's inventiveness and the products it has produced and think they're a lot of bang for the buck. The consistently high prices they command on ebay and Agon indicate that somebody is willing to pay a lot for them, I never buy gear based on other peoples opinions of it, they're not paying for it. OR listening to it:p Mr. Bob is a GENIUS and a Hell of a nice guy too!! Link to challenge below...read all about it;)

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:qKIj-pJv0iAJ:www.carveraudio.com/CarverChallenge.pdf+the+bob+carver+challenge&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us&client=firefox-a

[gdb]

I have my M1.0-t coming back from RichP714 after the mkII mod/upgrade.

The specs promise this will be a monster - and some of the reviews by folks who got this mod say it results in a good SQ step up - even though it is regarded by some as the ugly stepchild of the Carver line ;)

I'll post my own evaluation once I get my amp back and spend some time with it...should be here tomorrow.

AWWW:eek: You said Monster!! You better get a good lawyer,they'll sue you you know.

[heiney9]

If you'd like to know why some don't like Carver stuff...I suspect it's because years ago he took a challenge from Stereophile magazine & a couple of "Hi-End" amp manufacturers to duplicate their sonic traits with his mass produced mid-fi amps. He succeeded so well that he actually had to "worsen" the sound on one to get an exact match! Well....this didn't sit too well with the challengers at all. Like Bose, Monster etc. etc. there's always going to be someone/thing that people will band together against because "everyone else is doing it"! I personally admire Bob Carver's inventiveness and the products it has produced and think they're a lot of bang for the buck. The consistently high prices they command on ebay and Agon indicate that somebody is willing to pay a lot for them, I never buy gear based on other peoples opinions of it, they're not paying for it. OR listening to it:p Mr. Bob is a GENIUS and a Hell of a nice guy too!! Link to challenge below...read all about it;)

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:qKIj-pJv0iAJ:www.carveraudio.com/CarverChallenge.pdf+the+bob+carver+challenge&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Yeah.............that's old news. Bob deserves to sit at the table with a lot of great audio pioneers that's for sure. Never really cared for his stuff (certainly didn't hate it), but that was a long time ago. I'm more of a Pass-o-phile. But no denying Bob's contributions to audio.

Also there are two sides to that story, some say he succeeded some say he didn't..........let's just leave it at that.

H9

[reeltrouble1]

I used to order my underwear from a Sears & Roebuck catalogue. Its Groundhog Day, again or at least I hear alot of echoes.

RT1

[skipf]

I'd suggest keeping the M1.5t and having it remanufactured as noted by others. Then spend your bucks on a good tube pre. The combination of Carver power amps and tubes on the upstream side creates an outstanding sound.

[gdb]

Yeah.............that's old news. Bob deserves to sit at the table with a lot of great audio pioneers that's for sure. Never really cared for his stuff (certainly didn't hate it), but that was a long time ago. I'm more of a Pass-o-phile. But no denying Bob's contributions to audio.

Also there are two sides to that story, some say he succeeded some say he didn't..........let's just leave it at that.

H9

H9, I have no doubt that it's "old news" to an "old timer" such as yourself. My intent was to share the info with the 39post OP newbie that asked about the Carver reputation.;):D

[Erik Tracy]

H9, I have no doubt that it's "old news" to an "old timer" such as yourself. My intent was to share the info with the 39post OP newbie that asked about the Carver reputation.;):D

The Carver reputation lives on....

Just got back my modified M1.0-t mkII from Rich.... wow.....relatively speaking ;)

[gdb]

Nice!!! When funds permit....I'm going to have Rich mod a M-500T for me! ( I've got a thing for those meters:D)

[TSWisla]

Thank you for the advice, the c-4000 and m-1.5t are off to WA next week.

[gdb]

TWS, if you haven't already, join the two Carver sites. Lots of info and some damned good fights too !!!:eek::D

http://www.carveraudio.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=6

http://thecarversite.com/yetanotherforum/default.aspx?g=register

[Erik Tracy]

Nice!!! When funds permit....I'm going to have Rich mod a M-500T for me! ( I've got a thing for those meters:D)

Specs for the stock M1.0-t and after Rich's MkII mod:

Stock.......................................Mk II
Power
8 ohms 200 watts <0.15% THD...400 watts <0.15% THD
4 ohms 400 watts <0.15% THD...450 watts <0.15% THD
At Clipping
8 ohms 350 watts.....................450 watts
4 ohms 500 watts.....................520 watts
Dynamic
8 ohms 550 watts.....................670 watts
4 ohms 832 watts.....................940 watts



I have this back in my rig now with my 8 ohm RTiA3s...and it is just insane!

Cleaner...crisper....more dynamics...I'm giddy in delight right now :D

[lakesailor]

If you'd like to know why some don't like Carver stuff...I suspect it's because years ago he took a challenge from Stereophile magazine & a couple of "Hi-End" amp manufacturers to duplicate their sonic traits with his mass produced mid-fi amps. He succeeded so well that he actually had to "worsen" the sound on one to get an exact match! Well....this didn't sit too well with the challengers at all. Like Bose, Monster etc. etc. there's always going to be someone/thing that people will band together against because "everyone else is doing it"! I personally admire Bob Carver's inventiveness and the products it has produced and think they're a lot of bang for the buck. The consistently high prices they command on ebay and Agon indicate that somebody is willing to pay a lot for them, I never buy gear based on other peoples opinions of it, they're not paying for it. OR listening to it:p Mr. Bob is a GENIUS and a Hell of a nice guy too!! Link to challenge below...read all about it;)

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:qKIj-pJv0iAJ:www.carveraudio.com/CarverChallenge.pdf+the+bob+carver+challenge&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us&client=firefox-a

I always admired Carver’s ingenuity and his talent. The audio community is certainly much better off for his contributions.

My dislike for Carver gear was simply form owning it and the fact that most of it was crap due to poor build quality.

When it comes to build quality Nelson Pass is the man. I have often thought if you could somehow put Bob Carver and Nelson Pass in the same lab long enough they could come up with some pretty impressive gear that would last a life time.

The upside is that there are some people re-building the old Carver stuff again.. My only regret about selling all of my Carver gear was that I did not do it sooner.

[heiney9]

I agree 100% on the Pass statement........but if you look at their individual evolution as designers they seem to be at odds.......on paper. Nelson is the guru of simple ---> better or less is more philosophy. Bob has always been about quirky ways of coming up with a new circuit................and IMHO, making things way more complicated than they need to be, and sometimes letting the sonic output suffer a bit to have a new fangled circuit (for lack of a better term). Bob has certainly always thought outside the box, but I would conclude as a whole, Nelson's designs have more purity when it comes to the final sonic output.

They both have their following and certainly have made several key contributions to audio.

H9

[nooshinjohn]

.... how did the repairs turn out...