Sorry George. More dust

[ben62670]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1380.jpg?t=1234040535
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1381.jpg

[mewisemagic]

you do excellent (pro)work:D

[ben62670]

I'm trying:) There will be some more bracing;)

[Face]

Very nice Ben!

I wish it was warm and dry enough to do that outside up here. Even wearing a respirator I feel like crap the next day.

Which tweeter are you using, XT-25?

[sda2mike]

that grand am gonna be rockin'!:cool:

[Face]

that grand am gonna be rockin'!:cool:
That's a Grand Prix.

[george daniel]

Hmmmmm, I'm guessing that some/all of the drivers from the SRS-2 clones are going in those? Please make sure that you have an AI-1 ready when Russ shows up with his SDA's;)Also,, comfortable seating needs to be available, as no one will be allowed out of their seats once the show begins.;)

[sda2mike]

That's a Grand Prix.


you are correct, sir! got room for a sub in there:p

[ben62670]

These are using the 6.5's. Mine use the 5.5's. Remember that guy Jerry who hooked me up with my AC when it was stolen. Well one hand washes the other. These are his. He bought the drivers, an I am building these with him. I am redoing mine similar to these when I get some time/money. I have the drivers already:)

[nooshinjohn]

Ben, Can you do an sda center for me? thinking of using 4 6.5s and 1 rdo tweet....
I can do all the veneer work on it...

[hearingimpared]

Nice work Bro.

[ben62670]

6 1/2 hours later. Still need to mount drivers and do the harness.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1383.jpg?t=1234049236
I need to put an air hole in it till the passives show up:p

[Face]

I wish I could work that fast.

[george daniel]

Air hole,,, kinda reminds me of that T-unit dude,,

[zingo]

Those look really good Ben. Great work as always.

[beardog03]

WOW !

great job , Ben !!

[ben62670]

Well Jerry just left. We had these running since about 9pm. We did ditch the nippled tweeter for the dual concentric. These thing are pretty friggen cool. For those who don't beleive speakers need to break in I can solidly tell you they do. At first the mids were lacking real bad. Song after song they got better. I am very pleased. Jerry is syked. He is thinking about some high end tweeters for these, and having them done up in some nice veneer. I get to keep them for the rest of the week:)
Ben
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1389.jpg?t=1234070734

[beardog03]

very fakin kool !!

Do they sound as good as they look ?

you have skills , bro !!

Reminds me of the days when Sid The Kid was buildin stuff !!

[ben62670]

They sound real good except the XO point is to high. I have them at about 3300 which is too high for 6.5's. I need to reduce them to 2500 to reduce very minor lobing. We don't have the passives yet so the bass doesn't run as deep as I want, but it hits hard and tight. You would have to be a real stickler to complain about the SQ with these as they are. We have 4 10" passives on order to finish them.

[nooshinjohn]

very sweet bro'

[comfortablycurt]

Those look awesome Ben. I've seen quite a few pictures of the speakers you've built, and I've gotta say, you do awesome work man.

I've always wanted to try my hand at building some speakers...I'm thinking next year after I've gotten both my HT setup and my 2-channel setup rounded out, I'll give it a shot. I know who I'll be asking for advice on it;)

I won't be going for anything quite as grandiose as those SDA's though of course...Maybe eventually though...

[Keiko]

Very nice work Ben!

[george daniel]

I've heard the ones on the left,,(SRS-2 clones) BEFORE he installed the passive radiator, and they did surprise me. Very detailed,slightly laid back with a very good soundstage.

[Fireman32]

Very nice man.

[CLPolk]

Wish I could do that!! KOOL!!

[HB27]

Very nice work Ben,
What brand of passives are you going to use? I've got a project in the works and I'm not sure what kind to get and or where to get them. I need a pair of "mild" 15" to fire from the rear. The SRSII forward firing bass was too strong in my little place and I was hoping the rear firing might be easier placement and not so overpowering.

[NotaSuv]

whenever you need the backing for your own shop drop me a line...........you have quite a talent my friend.........very very nice work

[Ricardo]

Very nice job Ben. Just keep your hands away from the saw/bits ;)

[george daniel]

Very nice job Ben. Just keep your hands away from the saw/bits ;)

and flammable substances,solutions, and unidentified objects.:eek:;)

[hearingimpared]

You are like an accident prone Speedy Gonzales. I can't believe how quickly you got them built. Nice work. I would love to hear them.

[disneyjoe7]

WOW looks pro, nice work :)

[megasat16]

Very Nice! Great Job, Ben! Why are you making more SDA clones? :D

One HUGE GIANT FREAKING BEN'S SRS 1.2TL is not enough for you? :D :p

[treitz3]

I predict that he will have at least 10 sets of SDA's by year's end.......

[ben62670]

Nope just one more set. The ones we built yesterday are for my buddy Jerry. I was planning on building a set just like them with the smaller drivers(5.5"). It just happens that both the 6.5, and the 5.5 use the same cabinet volume. When I do my cabs I will put the 5.5"ers in there, and maybe someday I can afford the 6.5's. Jerry is very happy and wants to have them veneered in a cabinet shop. I am very excited about seeing a good finish on something we built. Why do I build SDA clones? Because I can:) Seriously I like to build things. I don't mind if I have a bad design. I will just build another.

Thanks for the compliments.
Ben

[bsoko2]

How do the clones sound in relation to the originals?

Bill

[nooshinjohn]

I heard Ben challenged Matt Polk to a duel with his clones... It was to be called the Clone Wars, but George Lucas threatened to get the lawyers from Monster Cable on the phone...

[disneyjoe7]

^^LOL Nice :)

[inspiredsports]

Those are a Thing of Beauty, Ben!

Are the two 10" passives per cab going to be offset? Looks like it would be tight if they're to be on the center-line.

[ben62670]

I heard Ben challenged Matt Polk to a duel with his clones... It was to be called the Clone Wars, but George Lucas threatened to get the lawyers from Monster Cable on the phone...

No way I would ever challenge MP. He and others have been gracious enough suppling schematics, and support to Polkies for years. I do like the results I have with the clones do to being able to choose different drivers. That being said the original drivers are very efficient, and have great SQ. I like Strawberry shakes, and others prefer chocolate. To do what I have done takes a lot of research and failures. The ring radiator tweeter I choose for my project I chose based on hearing the LSI's. The ones I chose sounds nothing like the ones Polk uses in there LSI line. Imaging is great with these last few designs. My monsters were great when i had plenty of room for them, but do not fair well in a normal environment. The punch is much better with the newer drivers. When EarlyB had me build his center I learned how much drivers had advanced in the last few years. I hope that some day Polk will release some 2 channel SDA's again with new drivers. I have built two sets for others beside myself. These were non profit thank yous for friends who have helped me out:)
Ben

[ben62670]

Those are a Thing of Beauty, Ben!

Are the two 10" passives per cab going to be offset? Looks like it would be tight if they're to be on the center-line.

The 2 10's are going to fit no problem center lined. Two 10's equal the surface area of a single 15. Respectfully Polk does does not release the data on their drivers so I chose to order after market PR's to be able to tune a little easier than trying to figure out Polk's specs.
Ben

[ben62670]

Well the passives will be here tomorrow, and his tweeters. We are excited:) I did the baffle boards today for mine:) I designed my box so later I can seal off the MW's(2 cubic foot sealed), and run an active woofer/PR combo in the remaining 3.2 cubic foot bottom section. With this arrangement I would have 3 way SDA's. I have also toyed with the idea of running the Dayton Titanic MK III's in the bottom section sealed;) We'll see.
Ben

[bsoko2]

Well the passives will be here tomorrow, and his tweeters. We are excited:) I did the baffle boards today for mine:) I designed my box so later I can seal off the MW's(2 cubic foot sealed), and run an active woofer/PR combo in the remaining 3.2 cubic foot bottom section. With this arrangement I would have 3 way SDA's. I have also toyed with the idea of running the Dayton Titanic MK III's in the bottom section sealed;) We'll see.
Ben

Ben, your project has my interest. It might be a fun thing to do this summer. Keep detailing or fully detail what you are doing so that others can follow.

Bill

[ben62670]

I'm still like a kid at Christmas even if the stuff ain't mine. Here you go Jerry:)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1395.jpg?t=1234376005

[jerryj12]

Woohoo.........Im on my way.

[zingo]

Which drivers are those Ben? The mids look almost like Polks, and is that a Vifa tweeter?

[ben62670]

Which drivers are those Ben? The mids look almost like Polks, and is that a Vifa tweeter?

Those are 10 PR's from PE. They would match the MW line fairly well visually, but I would need to run some tests. Yes the tweeter is a Vifa;)
Ben

[gdb]

Hey Ben, any chance of showing your router/guide/template set-up?? Do you use a center pivot/sub-base, or bushing and template method, and... are you a plunger?? Seeing this stuff makes me itchy to get into my shop !! I'm just getting around to replacing my vacuum veneering eqipment and am almost ready to take the HVLP step. Still love my old Binks#7 gun though !! Nice work !!!:D

[zingo]

Those PR are an excellent match! Good work!

[ben62670]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1396.jpg?t=1234408050

[bsoko2]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1396.jpg?t=1234408050

Fantastic! I want them.

Bill

[dorokusai]

That's great cabinet work Ben, my hat is off to you.

[ben62670]

That's great cabinet work Ben, my hat is off to you.

Thanks Bro. Jerry has decided to get these done in real venner. I am very excited to see some of my work actually worth looking at, and not just listening to:) We are both very pleased.
Ben

[schwarcw]

Ben, the cabinets look fabulous. I'm interested in the crossover. Those things look just like 2.3's (except for the two passives. Are you going to veneer them ala Sal? Greet work all around. Congrats!

[ben62670]

The boys should be back in the end of February. I will speak more of the internals after then;)
Ben

[GV#27]

I'm still like a kid at Christmas even if the stuff ain't mine. Here you go Jerry:)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1395.jpg?t=1234376005
Wow youve been a busy boy,nice work on the cabinets.I think I know what those 6.5"mids in the big speak are.:D
btw whats that nice little toroid going to be powering?

[ben62670]

Those would be Silver Flutes. The little toroidal is for my DAC pre project. It is 15-0-15, and I have another that is 6-0-6 for the 5+ digital, and the other legs will be for the analog. I have decided that I do not want to put everything in one case. I don't want an amp in there with the DAC, and pre. I don't even know if I want the toroids in the case:eek: Am I becoming a paranoid freak?

[GV#27]

Those would be Silver Flutes.Yep the big brothers to your 5.25".They appear to be excellent drivers for the price Mad is selling them for.
I have decided that I do not want to put everything in one case.Not a bad idea.
I don't even know if I want the toroids in the caseIf you can place them a few inches away youll be fine.I have never had problems with small toroids introducing noise into a circuit.Most of the noise radiated from a toroid is upwards/downwards not to the sides.
Am I becoming a paranoid freak?
Absolutely,in a good sort of way.

[mrbigbluelight]

Ben, just a couple of words: Very impressive !

Happiness is being good at doing what you like doing.

[Face]

Great job Ben!

[ben62670]

I have totally changed directions. I am now hunting the tiny tiny details, transitions, and sound stage. The tone of those Silver flutes is very very nice, and at their price they are a steal. We are toying with the idea of a better tweeter, but the problem we are having is that the tweeter for his needs to be crossed at around 2k with a 24db LR slope. Also we really need something that is at least 92db, and can handle 200wrms at 2k:( Morel has these that we are looking at.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8195
I had the Morel MDT20's, and they held up fairly well considering what I was doing to them:eek: I liked the sound except the breakup in the upper vocal ranges of female artists. The Vifa ring radiator's (not the ones Polk uses) were very directional, and didn't handle vocals sweetly. I know have these. I think you recommended this particular model a while ago. http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=153&products_id=1115
They are better than the MDT20's, and the Vifa Rings I was using, but we want even cleaner.

[Face]

If you can raise the crossover frequency to 2400, the xt19 has excellent dispersion, much better than the 25.

[GV#27]

These are an excellent alternative.Some guys are crossing them over as low as 1.8k with 24db slopes.http://www.seas.no/images/stories/prestige/pdfdatasheet/h1189_27tdfc_datasheet.pdf

I use this the metal dome version and crossover at 2k.They are very clean and detailed,no distortion issues related to the 2k xover.http://www.seas.no/images/stories/prestige/pdfdatasheet/h1212_27tbfc_g_datasheet.pdf

[ben62670]

Metal domes scare me.
A few of the design problems with the 6 mid design is that we reach 116db peaks. To have a 90db tweeter that can keep up it would need to handle 250wrms to hit 114db. Now if you can use a tweeter that is 93db you can hit 117db with the same wattage. Another huge thing to over come is these things can not be toed in. We are at nearly 40 degrees of offset at the seating position. If you move left or right this is increased even more. I know that I can't hear much above 12k, but I want it right. I may have to raise the XO point to around 2.4k. The lobing, and phasing should be minimal at near field listening position like in a house. Right now it is at 3.3k, and there is some beaming from the mids. I am being over critical of this. The transition is pretty smooth, but with my 5.5's the transition is smoother.
BTW he has been listening to his Sonicap modded LSI's for 2 days prior to coming over, and he says ?(with a big grin)these smoke them in SQ;)

[GV#27]

Metal domes scare me.No need to feareth this Metal dome,its sweet and detailed sounding without any hint of edge one might expect from a metal dome. Check Zaph's tweeter mishmash for his comments on it and the 1189.

A few of the design problems with the 6 mid design is that we reach 116db peaks. To have a 90db tweeter that can keep up it would need to handle 250wrms to hit 114db.Who listens at those kind of levels?:eek: oh yeah you do.:DDon't forget that most of the musical signal will be below the tweeters operating range so the percentage of power distributed to the tweet will substantially less than to the midbass's.
The lobing, and phasing should be minimal at near field listening position like in a house. Because you have your tweeter mounted beside and not above your mids, any lobing will be from right to left instead of up and down.You may get lucky if the mids and tweet are in phase, the lobe will angle inward towards the listening position.Aswell the lower the xover the less lobing becomes a problem.

[ben62670]

I have actually been listening at much lower level, but every once in a while it is fun to crank something:) I did a lot of reading last night, and the new Morel ET338 replaces the MDT33. I have heard lots of good things about them, and the off axis performance is very good. Another thing pushing me to them is I can get them for $220 a pair new;) From what I have read is you need to get into tweeters that cost around $300 each to go a step up from the Morel's. Also I have read that the Morel Supremes don't sound as nice as the MDT-33 or ET-338. The dome/VC assembly only cost about $20 if they get blown:)

[GV#27]

Ooops my bad for suggesting the el cheapo SEAS tweets.:oI didnt Know your budget was >$200.Morel makes great tweeters to be sure,even though their MDT33's were Dynaudio D28 knockoff's;).

[ben62670]

....MDT33's were Dynaudio D28 knockoff's;).

I read that. My budget isn't that high, but Jerry wants these done right. Normally the ET-338(MDT33) tweeters are $330. The big plus is the replacement domes. I will order spares ahead of time. I messed up with the MDT20's. I have a stack of blown ones and you can't get the domes anymore:( I had some SEAS domes that I liked, but they didn't handle low XO points, and the particular ones I had were know for having issues with the VC wire breaking from the terminals to the VC.

[GV#27]

I read that. Back in the late 80's when I started into the speaker building thing,the Dynaudio D28's where the Queen Mom's of dome tweeters.Morel decided to get in on the action and made some very nice clones.Its too bad Dynaudio decided about 10yrs ago to no longer sell their drivers for DIY use.:(
I had some SEAS domes that I liked, but they didn't handle low XO points, and the particular ones I had were know for having issues with the VC wire breaking from the terminals to the VC.
Must have been an older one with a high Fs ( 1.5kish) ,most of the newer SEAS units have very low Fs's in the 5-600hz range so crossing over low is not a problem.

[ben62670]

I think the FS was around 1k, and I tried to make them keep up with 16 MW's per speaker. That and known issues with that particular model life was short. They did sound nice in my monitors.
Ben

[ben62670]

Well I am having mucho fun tonight. I changed a couple OpAmps in my DAC which changed the sound of the speakers. They were a little bass shy to me(not Jerry), and the upper mids had a bite to them. A properly designed passive XO compensates for these short coming to an extent. We are going active on this project. This is good and bad. Good no components in the signal path to change the signal, bad no components in the signal path to change the signal. Most recordings are engineered for the average user:( Well I dug through my parts. All I had was one OPA134 OpAmp I knew I don't just order just what I need. I dug around a bit and found a pair of them in a lost stash of parts. Well now the bass is slamming, and the rise/sustain/decay of instruments is spot on. These speakers are slightly less efficient than Polk SDA's, but scenically better IMO. These are fully BiAmped and on the lows I figure they are receiving 350wrs. The amps are at max (GFA-565's) and putting out peaks of 115db C weighted slow at the listening position clean. We are going to install the Morel ET-338 tweeters for better SQ and power handling. We are running these at 3300hz for an XO point which is way to high, and we just ordered new XO's crossed at 2200hz. This will help with the transition from the lows to the highs a lot. The SDA effect is the best it has been yet. One of the biggest lessons I have learned yet is synergy. It is a bitch. We are near as good as it gets. I can't wait to demo these at the next gathering. Jerry is going to order the veneer, and the new tweets by then. All I have to say is wait for what others have to say.
Thanks
Ben

[hearingimpared]

Good **** Ben.

[GV#27]

... no components in the signal path to change the signalThey are there ,just a different type and in a different location.:D

Interesting results with the OPA 134 vs the 5534,next step is to try biasing them into class A.

[ben62670]

Well if I knew more:o I am trying to learn...

[GV#27]

There are better ways but the simplest method is by adding a resistor between the output (pin6) and the neg voltage (pin4).Something like 10k would be a good starting point, lower resistances will bias it heavier into Class A but heat may become an issue.Monitor the chips body to be sure it is not getting excessively hot.

[ben62670]

Thanks Bro. Like I have said many times. I know enough to be dangerous;)

[ben62670]

Well the Mahogany veneer should be here Wednesday. We are going to get work Thursday. Thanks F1nut for the suggestions. A 4x10 sheet will do a set minus the backs. Those are going to be black.

[ben62670]

Well a good friend said if you want them to look like Mahogany...
Jerry and I bought 5 4x10 sheets of Mahogany veneer. For what we paid we almost stole them;) I wish my camera took better pictures. The cabs only have 2 coats on them, and no stain. They look much richer, and have no flashing. They are very uniform in color:)
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1397.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/100_0756.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1401.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1420.jpg

[jerryj12]

Wow I'm famous, my picture is on the forum. :o No autographs please.

[george daniel]

looks like you guys are working you A$$'s off,, nice work gents.:)

[jerryj12]

Thanks George,looking forward to seeing you this weekend.

[george daniel]

I'm planning on showing up, but most likely it'll be late,as we are moving my mother into an assisted living facility,, but if you can,stick around,I might be bringing a pair of tubers.

[hearingimpared]

Nice work you guys, they are beautiful.

[Face]

Nice job, look forward to see the completed project.

[disneyjoe7]

Beautiful work from the both of yous :)

[george daniel]

Be sure to vacuum that room before this w/e:eek:

[inspiredsports]

I wondered where you were Ben, and now I know.

Props go out to you, Jerry, and those beautiful cabs!

When you get all dusted off I hope you can weigh in on my post #53 at http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74946

[ben62670]

Be sure to vacuum that room before this w/e:eek:

I was going to soak the room with gas and burn it:D
Jerry just ordered those fancy tweeters today. They will be here by Thursday:):):)

[Lasareath]

Wow They look really Good!

Nice Job!

I think I might need to Hire you Ben to make me a Custom made Center Channel speaker.

Like 7 feet long, But with all MW's and RD0198's

Sal

[engtaz]

Great job guys. Speakers look great. George, I hope your mother is OK.

[george daniel]

Thanks Roy,, she fine,, just at her age, she needs constant assistence/help with the activities of daily living,and my brother and I can no longer do it 24/7.

[engtaz]

I figured as much. Bless you and your brother for trying to. Tell your lovely wife I said HI.

[ben62670]

Have I mentioned I hate my camera...
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1421.jpg

[Face]

Nice job!

[ben62670]

Thanks Bro. They look much better than the pics. I am glad to finally be done with them, and finally glad to have something that isn't a plain MDF box in the living room:) Jerry's tweeters came in today. I can't wait till those are hooked up. They look sweet. I hope they sound sweet:eek:

[Face]

Thanks Bro. They look much better than the pics. I am glad to finally be done with them, and finally glad to have something that isn't a plain MDF box in the living room:)
Yes, instead you have monkey coffins with circles on them. :D

[hearingimpared]

Hot damn they look nice. One question though; how come the radiators are so low to the floor?

[engtaz]

Ben's usually down there. I'm sorry I could not resist. :)

[ben62670]

The cabinets happen to work out at 5.3 cubic feet. The optimal cabinet for the 5.5 drivers sealed is 2 cubic feet. I built a z shaped bracket so I could separate the 6 5.5's from the lower chamber. I found a woofer PR combo that is designed to work optimal in a 3.3 cubic foot box:) 2 plus 3.3 is 5.3;) This just happened to work out perfectly for the 5.5 inch drivers in a ported/PR box. The tuning is a hair off on the PR, but that is no big deal. So to answer the question why is the PR so low? It leaves enough room to run an active 12 woofer/PR combo in the lower chamber. The bass is better than I anticipated so I may not run the active 12" woofer. Another option is I have a Dayton Titanic III 15" woofer that does well in a 3 foot box sealed. I could just buy one more for a dual 15" sealed sub setup. I want to be able to run HT without having a separate sub. This is all not in the near future stuff. I want to figure out what I can sell to get the tweeters Jerry ordered. They sound SWEEEEEEEET!

[davidfmartin]

Sweet dweet dweet. totally freekin' cool. Can you post picks of the backs?

[ben62670]

Sweet dweet dweet. totally freekin' cool. Can you post picks of the backs?

Yes sir!
The top two post are for the tweeters that are installed. I have some temp wires running to a set of tweeters sitting in some foam "brackets" burning in before the boys get here. I raped a set of AQ type 4 speakers wires :( to wire the woofers internally, and I am using silver plated copper on the highs.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1422.jpg

Edit: I need to vacuum the saw dust, and particles off the floor:o I also need a real work shop. Dust masks will be provided to visitors:eek:

[PolkClyde]

That's pretty easy to do IF you have the time :)

[Hobbyguy]

Wow...those are beautiful! Nicely done.

[zingo]

The back of those is just flat black laminate then?

[ben62670]

The back of those is just flat black laminate then?

Hey Jake the backs are a laminate counter top satin finish. Jerry and I discussed using it for faces in the future for fronts. It is much better looking than the pic suggest. You can find it at HD for $45 a 4x8 sheet. It is nice and heavy duty, and much easier and cheaper than trying to do a painted finish;)

[ben62670]

That's pretty easy to do IF you have the time :)

If you have had experience building with veneer I am am all ears. It wasn't too bad for me. Some guys have it, and some don't. Like drywall, and plumbing I just can't get it right??? Do you have some links to what you have done? We are having our get together this weekend, and would love to have ya.

On a side note I have tried many tweeters, and they all have had some sort of harmonic distortion at some frequency. Usually in the upper female vocal range. I am seriously loving these tweeters. I will get a pair some how. I don't care how:eek: These to me have only been surpassed SQ wise by the Focals, but these are very close, can handle power, and are efficient enough to use with SDA's:)
Ben

[SCompRacer]

That's pretty easy to do IF you have the time

I'm thinkin he meant the cleaning.;)

Ben, terrific job! High marks!

[ben62670]

I'm thinkin he meant the cleaning.;)



I could use some tips on that too:D I just looked at the pic, and there are tons of bits and pieces from the wires all over the place. I am going to get some cleaning done. We trashed the place:( We had a lot to do, and a short time to get there. Now our get together has been delayed. This is kinda good. I can clean up a bit, and give the new drivers a chance to break in;)
Edit: Those 6.5's of Jerry's are more like 7's. They are real beefy. They make my 5.5's look teeny tiny:eek:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1423.jpg

[GV#27]

Very Nice,what did you use to trim the veneer around the driver recesses?

[schwarcw]

WOW! They look awesome! Great job!

[ben62670]

Very Nice,what did you use to trim the veneer around the driver recesses?

1/2" rabbit bit. The drivers have 3/8" lips so with about 3/32" between the drivers the routed out areas overlap. A little cutting with a razor, and some black paint the recesses blend pretty sweet.

[GV#27]

1/2" rabbit bit.Ok thanks.
Again I must compliment you on your work ,they look awesome.;)

[jerryj12]

Looks great. Nice picture. Like...... well you know the rest. :) :D

[Face]

Very Nice,what did you use to trim the veneer around the driver recesses?

How would these work for that application?

http://www.holbren.com/home.php?cat=725

http://www.holbren.com/image.php?id=725&type=S

[ben62670]

You would want a flush cut bit with a bearing;) Sarah M is singing to me now. Gotta go:)

[jerryj12]

B.B King now lives in the middle of my living room. :) I hope he don't want to drink all my beer. Thanks Ben, the speakers sound great. What a difference.

[ben62670]

I dry humped your speakers before they left:eek: Yes the sound stage in those is fantabulous! They are by far the best ones yet. I will try to beat them though. Enjoy my brother.
Ben

[Fongolio]

Sweet mother of all things holy...that is some beautiful work Ben! Outstanding.

[ben62670]

Sweet mother of all things holy...that is some beautiful work Ben! Outstanding.

I do have to say I am proud:) Jerry was definitely a great help with these:)
Ben

[Ender]

I hope to one day make speaker that might compare to yours, Ben. Hahaha. Then again, I have never heard your speakers, so I wouldn't know if I could beat yours. Let's just assume I can't. :D

I need to take some classes on woodworking and electronics soon, I think. I don't really know where to start. Some people are recommending starting with making cables and speaker stands, but where do I look to buy good tools or components? I don't even know what kind of wood to buy... Lol. Or solder or cable ends (Neutriks?).

Anyhow, I was really posting to say... Awesome work!

[ben62670]

Dude fly in. You have a place to stay. Enjoy the visit, and see what I have done on a limited budget. I am sure you will be impressed.
Ben

[Ender]

Dude fly in. You have a place to stay. Enjoy the visit, and see what I have done on a limited budget. I am sure you will be impressed.
Ben

I should... and I might after tax season. But right now I'm on a tight budget (only because I am trying to save up for some insanity called retirement... but thats a ways off for me) so a flight to Georgia might be too much for me. If you were in Arizona or something, I would probably just drive and pay for the gas. Lol.

[MillerLiteScott]

Very nice looking Ben. Keep it up.

[Pauly]

Very nice Ben. Hats off


Pauly

[ben62670]

Thanks Guys. I am very happy to have some decent looking speakers in the house. The usual MDF, or painted MDF boxes were just too ghetto. I am going to keep these for a while. The sound is nearly there. I don't know if it will ever be fully there. I need to actually kick back and enjoy. I have been chasing recording for too long, and there are other areas that need improvement more than the speakers. Some mods may be in order, but I am content for now...

[ben62670]

OK I lied(again). I have a pair of 15" Dayton Titanic III's going in this week. I thought I was done, but... well... I want to have the house rumble back with the HT. The subs will be sealed as will the mid section. They will retain the musicality, and I will have stereo subs that look to be part of a 3 way speaker. Well I guess they will be 3 ways:)

[engtaz]

You do some great work Ben.

[ben62670]

You do some great work Ben.

Thanks E. I know it goes without saying, but anytime you are near here there is plenty of room. I hope things are good down there:)
Take care.
Ben

[ben62670]

15" sealed Titanic Mark III sub woofer.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1495.jpg

Just cause she is cute:)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/DSCN1438.jpg

[hearingimpared]

She is so cute Ben. Is she the prayer machine?

[ben62670]

Yes that is my little prayer warrior. We pray every we are together(which is most nights) for my family, fiends, and even a few Club Polk buddies:) She is daddy's little girl for sure:)

[bsoko2]

How is the SQ on the Titanic?

Bill

[nikolas812]

Jeez Ben. Did you make those? They are insanely nice!






Nick

[ben62670]

Actually a friend was about to crash. I just enlarged the hole to set the woofer in. It will be sealed so I am hopeful that it will sound good. I still have to install the partition in the cabs so the top will be a sealed enclosure, and the bottom will also be a separate sealed enclosure. The SQ was real good before only slightly lacking the way it was, but the power handling when watching a movie went out the door with the LFE being sent to the speakers. I didn't want a bunch of speakers around so I incorporated the subs into the mains. I kinda wanted to leave them alone, but like I said I don't want a bunch of huge speakers all over the living room. When "I designed the towers I installed a "shelf for the partition to be installed at a later time:)
Take care Bill.
Thanks
Ben

[ben62670]

Jeez Ben. Did you make those? They are insanely nice!






Nick

Not half as nice as your work, but yep I made them. How is the tube amp coming along. The finish looked great.

[ben62670]

I had to go with a passive XO for now so the woofer is tied to the same amp as the mids. The XO point is 250hz at 6db(its what I had here to work with:().

The ugly. New cheap non polar cap used to separate the mids form the woofer. I hate cheap caps!

The bad. The XO is only 6db. I have to pull the speakers away from the wall do to the new sub section. The bass doesn't dig as low as I wanted it to, but I expected that till I cross it over active, and EQ out the roll off. Again cheap cap.

The good. Imaging improved by taking a little load off the mids(xmax = distortion) The bass is tight, and after fiddling with the polarity of the drivers I was able to get the SQ pretty good(Again crap cap). I really want to get some plate amps from Dayton. They have a pretty decent 500 watt with a parametric EQ built in. I want the 1000 watt model, but I don't think it would be worth the couple hundred extra dollars to get a few DB.

[Face]

Going with a steeper slope will be a big improvement.

Shut off the rest of the drivers and just listen to the sub, you'll be surprised how much material is coming out of it. :mad:

[ben62670]

What do you think of 12 12 for slopes active. I think I can mod my active XO board to band pass the mids, and I have a sub XO here. My buddy is going to let me use an amp for the highs so within a few days I will be able to Tri Amp these.
XO
sub 12db at least
Mids 12db low and high
Tweeters 24db

[GV#27]

Dang, that is an awesome looking speaker sir,and your daughters a cutie.

[Face]

After looking at this, I would go with at least 18dB: http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/295-420s.pdf

[ben62670]

Dang, that is an awesome looking speaker sir,and your daughters a cutie.

She is my pride and joy:)


After looking at this, I would go with at least 18dB: http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/295-420s.pdf

I need to go active soon. I was planning on doing it any way, but yeah that is a mean bump. I tried to drag the bump down to the low frequencies with the mouse, but I just couldn't pull it off:(

[GV#27]

When you asked about 200hz in the other thread I assumed your were doing it actively.

[ben62670]

I will, but for now I am just trying to run it active. I stuffed the box with fiberglass, but I think I may have stuffed it too much. I used the stuff for 2x6 walls and doubled up on it. It is fairly tight in there so I am not sure if I over stuffed it or not. I may post a thread for the car guys to give a little input. I know nothing about designing a sealed box except to get the Q around .7 I am very close.

[GV#27]

I will, but for now I am just trying to run it active. I stuffed the box with fiberglass, but I think I may have stuffed it too much. I used the stuff for 2x6 walls and doubled up on it. It is fairly tight in there so I am not sure if I over stuffed it or not. I may post a thread for the car guys to give a little input. I know nothing about designing a sealed box except to get the Q around .7 I am very close.
Heavily stuffing the box with fibreglass will actually give the effect of increasing the volume,so the Q will decrease slightly while F3 will increase slightly.A Q of.6-.7 is good.

[ben62670]

F3 may rise from say 40 to 50 overstuffed? The Q calculates nice with the 3.1 foot box. I am a total newb when it comes to sealed boxes:(

[GV#27]

F3 may rise from say 40 to 50 overstuffed?
Nah maybe 3-4 hz higher.

[ben62670]

After some tests I am not so against ported. It is going to take a lot of juice to get the subs low. I will never reach the lows I did with my sono sub. War of the Worlds has material I never heard on any other sub:( I should have left my mains alone, and did a separate sub for the lows :( Of coarse this is a little premature.
Ben

[GV#27]

Humm I thought the original intent was musical accuracy only.:confused:

If you want more extension try the LT circuit I posted info on in your other thread.

[ben62670]

Yeah I wanted musical accuracy, but I had that minus the 40 and below. I didn't want a sub in the room so I figured I could build a sealed into the mains. It just isn't there yet. A friend posted earlier that dual purpose anything is a compromise.

Edit: I am still considering putting some PR's on the backs of the cabs tuned lower. I would still be able to retain the phase relationship with the mains, and have the PR's tuned to take care of the lower bass on the back side? Off the top of my head to port the enclosure properly I would need a 4" port at around 80" to get it down deep and flat.

[ben62670]

Well I couldn't take it any longer. I ditched the 100uf NP electrolytic cap that was used to roll of the lows on the mids. Cheap caps in the signal path just suck the life out of the music. With the mids being sealed now they have an F3 of about 80hz.

[Conradicles]

Fantastic job on those speakers Ben. They look great!

[seafire]

Hey so this is where you disappeared to last night! wow nice work Ben.One question why are you using fibreglass for stuffing and not polyester filler?.Much nicer to work with no itch and also healthier sounds the same.I have huge real wood and veneered towers that I built in 2006..will foward you some pics nice work man bro keep it up:D

[engtaz]

Upward's is a very nice christian sports league. She adorable Ben and the speaker is great.

[ben62670]

Hey so this is where you disappeared to last night! wow nice work Ben.One question why are you using fibreglass for stuffing and not polyester filler?.Much nicer to work with no itch and also healthier sounds the same.I have huge real wood and veneered towers that I built in 2006..will foward you some pics nice work man bro keep it up:D

Looking forward to it.


Upward's is a very nice christian sports league. She adorable Ben and the speaker is great.

Sure is. Her mom has an awesome church. They (besides church) have a baseball field, basketball court, nice pavilion, track, and an awesome playground not to mention a huge double court indoor gym. I think that its great that they have a healthy controlled environment for the kids to go to.
Take care E.
Ben

[ben62670]

I have never had a sealed sub never mind stereo 15" stereo subs. Stereo makes a big difference in my system for sure. I like NIN for bass testing. I put on terrible lie, and during certain bass notes it felt like my upper body was being pushed to the right, and my hips were being pulled to the left. The next track (Down In It) has a rising falling bass riff. It feels like you are being pushed up, and when the notes dropping it literally feels like the undertow of a wave at the beach. I had to use a car XO to Tri amp this setup. The mids don't hit as sharp, but it sure is fun. I can't wait till I can get a real HiFi XO equalization circuit in the mix. I can't even imagine what the bass will hit like then.

[NJPOLKER]

Hey Ben
I have not followed this thread for awhile. I gotta say you have made some progress and I am sure loving it.
You sure have a lovely daughter too. Daughters rules, my son would be mad if he saw this!!
Keep up the great work

[starterl]

regards!, delivers you the best http://sourceradix.com/m/f277.html

[Kex]

regards!, delivers you the best http://sourceradix.com/m/f277.htmlSpam! Reported!

[ben62670]

Hey Ben
I have not followed this thread for awhile. I gotta say you have made some progress and I am sure loving it.
You sure have a lovely daughter too. Daughters rules, my son would be mad if he saw this!!
Keep up the great work

Yeah girls are cool when they are little. They come back after the teen years:)


regards!, delivers you the best http://sourceradix.com/m/f277.html

What are you trying to say? I am penile insecure?







Reported

[george daniel]

I must report that I got my ears on Ben and Jerry's custom loudspeakers,while dropping something off for Tom. Listening without subs,the first thing that came to mind was SDA's,, very familar sound,,however, with a little more midrange clarity and just a "tad" more lively than my 1C's. These two guys have done a great job with them,and Jerry's setup is nothing less than impressive. Organic comes to mind,,very good soundstage,,actually LARGE,, with alot of detail.I only wish that I could have stayed longer,, very easy to listen to. Thanks for the hospitality Jerry,,and thanks to Ben for the "surprise" cable,,I think it will work just fine.If any of you local polkies get an opportunity to listen to these speaks,, you owe it to yourself to do so. Thanks again ,,fella's. :)

[jerryj12]

Wow.... George, Thanks for the kind words. I think Ben and Lightman are coming over tomorrow and maybe you can stop by again, you are always welcome here.

[lightman1]

saw 'em, heard 'em, DAMN!! I finally made to Atlanta Friday night. (traffic and car wrecks:mad:) Met up at Jerrys house and was full on impressed with the sound and look of the speakers. I've seen and heard them through various stages of build and the end result is great! Y'all should start a company named Ben and Jerry's Speakers. (Eff the copyright BS!)Jerry and Nikki(?) were great hosts and she is a wonderful dance partner. I'm 6'3"-6'4" and she's about 4'11"-5'. We made a cute couple!
We went back to Ben's and he turned loose the 15's. Gut rumbling low end with accuracy! After some debate and a brief round of fisticuffs about crossover points on the mids, it was decided that a little more tweakin' was due to find that elusive smoothness on the mids and highs.
Over all it was another fine weekend at Bens. Clearly I'm insane for driving 600 miles just to hear somthing new.
Thanks Ben and Jerry!

I'm Baaaack! Fuc*ers!

[george daniel]

Hey Russ,, did you get Tom's box? Glad to hear that you made it back safely. See you next time.:cool:

[ben62670]

Well as always good to see most of the crew. ZB was lost in space. It was a surprise kinda get together. I try to include the whole GA crew, but weather, and short scheduling kinda made this a tough one. Can't wait till will corrupt our friend from the great white north. Plans are evolving, but I think we may run a circuit. I am very pleased that we have good fella's that like to share. There isn't one that I can pick out as a favorite. Moving to this area has been a blessing. Thanks Lightman for the repeated trips here. His kind words, and criticism are well appreciated. He dealt with the ghetto crossover well. Things need some tuning, but we are getting there. I hope to have a true crossover in effect before we get together. Jerry's house is a great acoustical environment. George's SDA's and tubes at my place were just a magical moment. Typing about what happened when he was here is next to worthless compared to the experience we shared. It is very exciting. George is stellar. Well back to the tunes.
Ben

[lightman1]

Hey Russ,, did you get Tom's box? Glad to hear that you made it back safely. See you next time.:cool:

Got it and dropping it off tomorrow. Sorry i missed you G, still want to talk early to mid 70's recording process. Me and my sons are heading down to Tom's and putting the Anthem into the fray. I'll keep ya posted.

[ben62670]

Well I have decided to implement some more changes. First The XO jerry and I were using is off. It is a kit from a very highly regarded HiFi company, but something is amiss. The high pass section rolls off so we were bumping the mids to high to keep the treble on par. This made the mids way too bright. Jerry picked up an active 3 way XO on a whim, and it sounds much better. Also I am going to go SDA-SRS with the mids. One of the key elements that causes the great sound of the 2.3TL's is one of the tweeters is handling most of the load. The problem is the dimensional array is 4 ohms, and only 2 drivers. This puts a lot of strain on those two drivers. With the blade blade SDA's the main problem SQ wise is the huge caps in the cancellation circuitry that hinder the performance. Well I am running active subs in my SDA's now so I will not need the big caps to block the bass in the cancellation signal:) I will end up with 4ohm SDA's wired like SDA-SRS's and the dimensional mids will not have to deal with the extra power going to just two small speakers.
See some of you on the weekend of the 8th.
Ben

[lightman1]

The 8th looks better for me Ben. Dig it?
Tom? You out there?

[ben62670]

The 8th looks better for me Ben. Dig it?
Tom? You out there?

Tom is definitely "out there"
Ben

[lightman1]

True.

[ben62670]

Well I am out there too. I am thinking hard about trashing my latest speakers. After having Jerry's here for a while mine just don't cut it. A polkie stopped by today, and we were discussing possible mods. He suggested cutting the cabs to keep the bass module seperate, and I was thinking of stacking an SRT type module to the top. The 5.5's I am running are nothing the "6.5's" Jerry is running. I am thinking 1C tops or 1.2 tops.

[george daniel]

You are the perfect person to get a pair of 1C's that need rehab and do your thing.

[ben62670]

Oh stop George. You know how I am. A sick mind is a terrible thing to waste. You going to be around Sunday afternoon? I have something to show you, and I will be in your neighborhood.

[george daniel]

I should be,,what time +/-?

[ben62670]

around 3-4pm:)

[Face]

You should use these for your next set:

4ohm woofer: http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=148&products_id=929

8ohm woofer: http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=148&products_id=930

With this tweeter: http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=148&products_id=1738

[ben62670]

Face that would be $2700 alone in drivers 1C style. I have looked at that tweeter pretty hard, but the issue with the Morel's we were having is cured. I bet they would be fantastic, but I could put that money to much better use around here.

[ben62670]

The numbers lie. When we decided on the high end Morel's they didn't use the AccuFlex dome in any of their cheaper models. The Cheaper ones are only $70
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=277-082
, and sound just like the "better" models which are $300 a pair.http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=277-072
The biggest lie is the efficiency. The expensive ones are supposed to be 92.5db, and the cheaper ones are only supposed to be 90db. I had to make no adjustments to the highs when using the cheaper models. We have had issues with magnet shift on the "better ones, and for ha ha's I swapped in the cheaper ones. I hope to get Jerry back to my house soon. I have his speakers here:) BTW Jerry was here and helped me with my car. He is one heck of a guy. Well back to the Vinyl and tubes:)

[hearingimpared]

BTW Jerry was here and helped me with my car. He is one heck of a guy. )

Is it running?

[ben62670]

I need a battery. It's gonzo, and it is supposed to hit the 20's here in hot lanta. I did have it running 2 weeks ago, but my right hand is nearly useless for wrenching. I want to flush the engine real good and rebuild the starter while I can get to it. Then its just some heat shields, some hoses, and accessories.

The Moody Blues are killer on SDA's!

[Face]

I'll say it again, Morel sucks.

[engtaz]

I disagree, It all depends on the type of music you like to listen to.

[ben62670]

I'll say it again, Morel sucks.

The Accuflex dome. I agree the soft domes don't have it. What do you recommend for a tweeter that can handle power an image great off axis?

[Face]

ScanSpeak Air Circ. http://madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1738

[ben62670]

I know. I have drolled, but at $400+ a pair I can not pull it off. Have you heard the Acuflex domes, or just the fabric domes?

[Face]

I believe just fabric. Regardless, go over to DIY Audio, PE's board, or Mission Possible and ask about Morel. ;)

[ben62670]

All those sites are talking about the fabric domes. The AccuFlex domes are an entirely different animal. Even with the CAT308's you have to be careful to make sure they are not the older fabric domes. Also keep in mind that the replacement dome/voice coil assembly is only $20 each. They blow you fix them very easily for $20. I have a pair resting for now if you want to check them out.

[Face]

No thanks, I'll stick with what I have. :)

[kcoc321]

Hey Ben, how do the Morel CAT308 sound compared to the RDO-194's or RDO-198's?
Have you tried an other of their tweeters, like the MDT29-4 or the CAT408's?

Just curious...I am trying to find a different tweeter for my project VS-25's..
thanks

[ben62670]

I like the new 308's more than the Polk RDO's. I have run Morel MDT20, MDT30, ET338, and the 308's. I have run two different SEAS tweeters. The vifa ring radiator and XT25 domes. I like the Morel CAT308's the most so far. As for what would be best for a project I wouldn't use any fabric domed Morels, but would use the acuflex dome. Also look at the Dayton silky. For Vifa I liked the XT25 dual concentric design.

[Face]

Dayton's new silk dome looks very promising.

[kcoc321]

Thanks for the feedback...:p

I like the new 308's more than the Polk RDO's. I have run Morel MDT20, MDT30, ET338, and the 308's. I have run two different SEAS tweeters. The vifa ring radiator and XT25 domes. I like the Morel CAT308's the most so far. As for what would be best for a project I wouldn't use any fabric domed Morels, but would use the acuflex dome. Also at the Dayton silky. For Vifa I liked the XT25 dual concentric design.

I am REALLY pulled towards the Vifa XT25 dual concentric design too,(have yet to hear them, with all the hype of the Ls series, but since I have all silk domes, thought I would stay with that style.


Dayton's new silk dome looks very promising.
They do. There is one that fits perfect, IMO. Rather than 'thread jack' MORE, I added more detailed responses in my "rare birds" thread. :D :D :D
Thanks for the feedback...:p

[ben62670]

I tell you what. I love the sound of these. I am cranking them now. I got some good news from my Doc so I am having a mini Polk Feast all by myself. I think passive XO's are near in the future. I don't like pro audio active xo' in the signal path. We will see.
Ben

[greyford1979]

Being newer to the forum, this is the first time I got to see this build. All I can say is wow!!!:eek: Amazing job!! Seen some of the other stuff you've done as well. I am truly a complete amateur at this compared to you and some of the other guys on here when it comes to the diy aspect of this hobby.

[treitz3]

Tom is definitely "out there"
BenI heard that....

[TrashyTrucker]

Nice work Ben,

This entire post has been fun to read.
If I could make it to there w/you we could listen to "and justice for all" album like your whereabouts in you signature says?.. LOL
again, good read,
Matt

[ben62670]

I am in CT. Anyone ever wants to visit you are more than welcome. I love to meet Polkies.
Merry Christmas
Ben

[Toolfan66]

I am in CT. Anyone ever wants to visit you are more than welcome. I love to "beat up" Polkies.
Merry Christmas
Ben

Fixed!!! ;)

[hearingimpared]

I am in CT. Anyone ever wants to visit you are more than welcome. I love to "beat up" Polkies.
Merry Christmas
Ben


Fixed!!! ;)

Hahaha now that's putting things in perspective!:wink:

[ben62670]

Well I have the XO's being designed for them now. I don't want the active XO in the loop anymore. I get rid of an extra amp, the active XO, and two extra sets of IC's. I will be selling my Adcom GFA-545 soon. I hope that will be close enough to get the components for the XO's.

[ben62670]

Crossovers are designed and the parts are on their way. I am very pleased with the components that the XO's are going to use.
Tweeter circuit is
1 6.8uf Sonicap and a .47mh inductor and 1.5r mills 12w
Stereo array is
1 .85mh inductor, 12uf cap, and 7.5r 50w with a .22mh inductor, 3.3uf cap, and 2r 15w for the zobel impedance correction.
The dimensional array is corrected for the different impedance curve on that array.
The slopes are 12db. I wanted 18db or better on the tweeter for better power handling, but this way keeps the cost of the caps lower and has less parts in series for improved sound. I also liked the way the tweeters impedance needed no correction. Very clean and straight forward. I purchased some 3 way XO boards to keep it neat. I will have to modify them just a hair to accept dual binding posts, and separate the dimensional array away from the stereo array on the MW's. The XO point is 2,200hz which is optimal for the diameter of the mid woofers. It could have been pushed as high as 2,500hz, but there would be a tiny bit of distortion. Most likely inaudible, but still measurable. It is going to be so nice to get away from the cheap pro audio XO, 2 extra sets of IC's and an extra amp for the tweeters. No more balenced to unbalenced cables. I will be able to sell the XO's off(berhinger DCX24/96, and the Berhinger 2 way(I only used one at a time)), and also the Adcom GFA-545. The cheap 2 way active XO actually sounded better than the DCX 24/96, but again it is just more lower end gear hampering the sound of a pretty decent setup. I'll post some pics when I get it together.
Ben

[ben62670]

Well I got the boards and some of the crossover parts. I am going to go with point to point on this one. I just don't care for the board layout. Also P2P is better than using traces IMHO.

[ben62670]

OK I am done with the passive network. When it was active I had a little bit of a problem with sustain, but now with the passive XO I have great sparkle and sustain on the highs. I am using SonicCaps on the highs and Dayton's on the shunt positions. As most of us know the caps are not very coherent when new. They keep "drifting", but I expected that. There is more air in the sound stage while retaining the placement. I wish I had my cable/XO cooker here for this. Burn-in is not fun anymore, but I know what to expect. I may have to pad the tweeter output a hair. When I had Madisound design the XO I told them not to pad the tweeter. SDA's are a different animal. When I spoke with Matt Polk he recommended the tweeters to be 2db hotter than just the stereo array to compensate for the stereo effects of the dimensional array. All is good for now. I am very pleased that the bass is still solid even with the passive components installed. I am glad to get the pro audio XO out of the mix. Also the woofers I am using are supposed to be flat to at least 5k. Real measurements show a little wiggle in the output. The zobel network takes that out. I always had a problem with female vocals being to bright, but all is good now.

[ben62670]

It is sounding very good here. The passive XO is doing fine. The only thing is the tweeters are crossed at 2000 and I have blown a few with the 12db xo. I may have to protect them breakers. Better than Polys, but I would pre fer none. The Sonics are giving me that roller coaster ride. Sounds good, sounds bad...