View Full Version : [Help Needed] Blu-ray Player help..
I prefer BD-55 but wondering does it worth the price difference?
I like panny over sony for having the signal out on both analog and digital at the same time. This way I don’t have to go back and forth to menu setting for watching DVD and Blu-ray. I heard S550 not able to do that. Thank you for any input.
Marty913
02-10-2009, 11:24 AM
I tried the Sony 350 versus the Panasonic 35 versions so it may not be fair to vote (I did anyway). I bought the BD35 because I felt the up-conversion was better which is a big deal for me (700 DVDs). Didn't care about the analog outs or the new formats as I'm 5.1 optical and planing on staying that way for the foreseeable future.
Analog out is important for me since my processor doesn't have HDMI and want to enjoy new audio format like TrueHD and DTS-HD MA.
CaligulaPolk
02-10-2009, 11:48 AM
Playstation 3 is the best blu ray player in the market :d
Playstation 3 is the best blu ray player in the market :d
Yes but he wants analog outs... :)
There were two models at Walmart with analog outs, BD30 ($250) and a Sony model, didn't have a number on it but it must have been the 550? $299 for the Sony. Just FYI.
Thanks for the head up. I'll stop by walmart later. I think BD-30 doesn't decode?
danger boy
02-10-2009, 12:39 PM
the Panny BD55 has been discontinued.. so it may be tough to find anymore.. and don't overpay for it.. some online stores are charging as much as $699 since supply is so low. well worth the $329 I paid for it last Nov. when it first came out. The Panny is suppose to have a slightly better picture quality over the Sony.
If you're not in a hurry... you may want to wait and see what the next generation of players are from Panasonic due out later this year.
If you can find a BD55 at a reasonable price.. then of course buy it. I am very pleased with mine.
danger boy
02-10-2009, 12:41 PM
Thanks for the head up. I'll stop by walmart later. I think BD-30 doesn't decode?
it doesn't decode.. the BD35 did.. but did not offer analog outs.. not untill you stepped up to the BD55 (now discontinued).
That's true, no wonder I couldn't find panny. $329? That's really good price. Thanks.
Thanks for the head up. I'll stop by walmart later. I think BD-30 doesn't decode?
Yes, you are correct. Seems like it does do PCM over analog, don't know if the HD formats would go that route or not.
danger boy
02-10-2009, 12:48 PM
my friend has the Sony S550 and he is very happy with it.. and it can be had for a reasonable price still.
good luck and enjoy.. you're gonna love having a Blu Ray player :D
Upstatemax
02-10-2009, 12:59 PM
My father has the Sony S550, it's nice and has a great picture. He is very happy with it.
still not as fast as my PS3 but he picked up his S550 for $300 during the holidays.
danger boy
02-10-2009, 01:06 PM
Everyone knows the PS3 is a fast and great player and gaming console.. but not everyone would consider speed the mark of a good player. and the next generation of BD players will meet or surpass the PS3's loading speed anyway. ;)
Yeah, I can still pick up S550 for less than $300. But I'm still a little itchy to get Panny now. May be worth to wait for the newer model? They kept on improving. :D
Erik Tracy
02-10-2009, 01:56 PM
There seems to be good 'buzz' on the Pioneer BDP-15FD - less than $300.
Consensus seems to be:
*Very good Blu-ray PQ
*Very Good DACs for CDs (Wolfson)
*Good SD DVD upconversion
*Full multi-channel analog outs
*Internal bass managment/steering
*Internal decoding for audio codecs
Cons:
*can't do internal decoding of DTS-MA
*slow disc loading
*3 sec delay in SD DVD layer changes
Just stirring the pot... :D
Cons:
*can't do internal decoding of DTS-MA
I was looking on it but that holding me off. Pioneer seems to be better built with IEC power.
Thanks guys. I had a chance to pick up BD-55. Now I need the demo discs. What do you recommend?
Erik Tracy
02-13-2009, 11:38 AM
Thanks guys. I had a chance to pick up BD-55. Now I need the demo discs. What do you recommend?
The Remastered version of 5th Element! :D
WilliamM2
02-13-2009, 12:09 PM
I was looking on it but that holding me off. Pioneer seems to be better built with IEC power.
My BDP-51FD is supposed to be delivered today. There is supposed to be a firmware update to increase the speed sometime this month, with another one next month to decode DTS-MA internally.
I decided for $264 it was worth it for the build quality, and I don't need internal decoding of DTS-MA.
wingnut4772
02-13-2009, 12:12 PM
Do any of these players beat the PS3 for any reason? Now that I have an XBox 360 for gaming I may want to upgrade my Blu Ray player - but not if there's no improvement. I wouldn't mind being able to bitstream instead of PCM but does it really matter?
Anyhoo. I voted on the Panny for you just from what I have read.
Erik Tracy
02-13-2009, 12:29 PM
I'm reading the Panasonic BD-35/55 thread on AVS forum....seems like a very problematic player with lots of issues. I'm probably going to pass on these as my future BD player choice.
But then practically EVERY piece of HT gear has threads where folks experience problems - many would be what I consider "pilot error" but others clearly are either poor design or features/functions not fully tested and buggy.
I guess the buyer needs to do his/her homework VERY carefully and thoroughly to find the product that has the least problems.
The Sony's and the Pioneers seem to have fewer issues....what a crummy way to base a choice - the product with the least issues.... :(
Do any of these players beat the PS3 for any reason?
If you have HDMI on your receiver, I don't see a reason to choose one over PS3 other than maybe cosmetics. I have two PS3's and I picked a BD-ROM drive for PC yesterday, couldn't resist as it was only $79, so I am pretty set for BD. HTPC route is still a little iffy as the playback software seems to have trouble passing surround sound, at least with SPDIF. I can always use analog outs from sound card though.
CaligulaPolk
02-13-2009, 12:39 PM
Thanks guys. I had a chance to pick up BD-55. Now I need the demo discs. What do you recommend?
Blade runner, Ratatouille, Dark Knight, many many man blu ray movies i can recommend
Thanks guys. I had a chance to pick up BD-55. Now I need the demo discs. What do you recommend?
No Country For Old Men has some pretty good scenes where you can see the benefits of BD very clearly (pun intended).
WilliamM2
02-13-2009, 12:42 PM
Do any of these players beat the PS3 for any reason? Now that I have an XBox 360 for gaming I may want to upgrade my Blu Ray player - but not if there's no improvement. I wouldn't mind being able to bitstream instead of PCM but does it really matter?
Anyhoo. I voted on the Panny for you just from what I have read.
I picked the Pioneer because it has better upconversion than the PS3...supposedly. It also has no fan noise. Other than that, probably no advantage over the PS3.
Erik Tracy
02-13-2009, 01:01 PM
Everyone knows the PS3 is a fast and great player and gaming console.. but not everyone would consider speed the mark of a good player. and the next generation of BD players will meet or surpass the PS3's loading speed anyway. ;)
Maybe the next next generation might be faster....reading some of the reviews of the current generation, many brands are still taking a looonnnggg time to load up a disc ( > 1 minute ??!! :mad:)
Each buyer needs to weigh the pros and cons for what features and performance are most important to them.
I know of no player that does everything well at a reasonable price....(pauses to think)...is there one at any price? :D
danger boy
02-13-2009, 01:51 PM
Thanks guys. I had a chance to pick up BD-55. Now I need the demo discs. What do you recommend?
congrats! I know you're going to love it. ;)
I would recommend the HBO mini series Band Of Brother.. 10 one hour parts.. effin incredible sound and picture quality.. the sound in the battle scenes will be making you duck for cover. :p make sure your sub is up to the task..
freakin incredible series..
The Dark Knight is great too.
I've heard that most any animated movie on Blu is good too.. like Cars, Ratatoulle (sp), I've heard a lot of buzz about King Kong too.. even though the movie was just ok.. i hear the PQ and SQ are good.
danger boy
02-13-2009, 01:54 PM
I'm reading the Panasonic BD-35/55 thread on AVS forum....seems like a very problematic player with lots of issues. I'm probably going to pass on these as my future BD player choice.
But then practically EVERY piece of HT gear has threads where folks experience problems - many would be what I consider "pilot error" but others clearly are either poor design or features/functions not fully tested and buggy.
I guess the buyer needs to do his/her homework VERY carefully and thoroughly to find the product that has the least problems.
The Sony's and the Pioneers seem to have fewer issues....what a crummy way to base a choice - the product with the least issues.... :(
bingo. name one piece of electronics that doesn't have problems??? it can't be done.. the Panny players are no more problematic than say any other brand out there.
You info is right on.. do your homework. I have had zero, zilch, nada problems with my Panny BD55 :D
What about those 16/20/24bits??? the more the better?
What about those 16/20/24bits??? the more the better?
More bits = more information = higher resolution.
digitalvideo
02-13-2009, 04:51 PM
I know this thread is about Panasonic vs Sony but if you can wait till around April in a few months the new '09 Pioneer blu-ray players are coming out and I personally believe from owning Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung products that the Pioneer is a superior product in most categories.
The new Pioneer BDP Blu-ray line -
http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/543879.html
http://www.productwiki.com/pioneer-elite-bdp-23fd/
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd-blu-ray/pioneer-elite-bdp-23fd
emjordan
02-13-2009, 07:20 PM
If you want to demo a lot of BluRay movies, you might try subscribing to Netflix. They have a very good selection of BluRay movies, and their turnaround time is very good. I'm on the three movies at a time plan and I get a new movie within a couple of days after mailing one back in. It's a flat rate no matter how many movies you rent in a month. When we got our BluRay player last year (Sony BDP-S500 -- slow loading, but awesome picture via HDMI) we went through tons of movies. I think Netflix has some good introductory offers from time to time.
There is no doubt that Pioneer makes some good stuff. And those are good blu-rays. It really depends on what you want to pay. If you have the money go with the Elite.
But if you want the most bang for your buck, nothing in the PS3s price range can match its abilities. The Sony PS3 is also the FASTEST loading Blu-ray bar none and that includes multi-thousand dollar players.
With a built in hard drive and web browsing and gaming functions, etc., etc. it's hard to compete with this unit even at its MSRP. In fact Sony is selling those things at a loss.
It also has an unbelievably powerful video processor because of the fact that it is a blu-ray 'gaming' unit.
Of course you need HDMIs for Tru-HD!
Just a thought. Mine puts out a gourgeous picture. And loads in 30 seconds or less!
cnh
digitalvideo
02-13-2009, 10:42 PM
I agree with cnh about the PS3 being a good all around performer, but I went on ebay and all the PS3's are going for around $350-500 dollars or more and the new Pioneer blu-ray players coming out in April are priced from $300-600 dollars and they are faster, they are profile 2.0 and have all the features of a $2000 reciever that decodes all the current audio and video and are also BD-live.
cheddar
02-14-2009, 11:27 AM
I agree with cnh about the PS3 being a good all around performer, but I went on ebay and all the PS3's are going for around $350-500 dollars or more and the new Pioneer blu-ray players coming out in April are priced from $300-600 dollars and they are faster, they are profile 2.0 and have all the features of a $2000 reciever that decodes all the current audio and video and are also BD-live.
Unless you are looking for something like SACD on discontinued models, I'm not sure why you would go on ebay to purchase a ps3 (especially for $500) when they retail for only $399. And all the features you list for the pioneers are the same for the ps3. Fast loading, profile 2.0 (which is the same as BD-live), internal decoding of all the latest formats. Also, receivers far under $2000 will decode the latest audio formats.
You fail to mention the more obvious advantages of a dedicated player over the ps3, like analog outs for backward compatibility with older, non-hdmi equipment and the ps3's use of bluetooth instead of IR for its remote requiring a third party solution for universal remotes.
cheddar
02-14-2009, 11:46 AM
I wouldn't mind being able to bitstream instead of PCM but does it really matter?
From what I understand, decoding TrueHD and DTS-HD MA is a very straightforward process. A receiver/pre must convert these lossless formats internally to PCM when bitstreamed anyways. Differences in audio quality come later when digital processing is applied by the receiver/pre or when the digital signal is converted to analog for the speakers. So as long as your receiver/pre handles the PCM properly (applies 10 db boost to the subwoofer channel), it shouldn't really matter where it is decoded. Cheap players usually come with bitstreaming only. Internal decoding is usually a higher end add-on feature of blu-ray players since it requires extra cost to include it for increased compatibility with more equipment. The ps3 was just released a few months too early (it was a format launch player back in 2006) to get the proper hdmi 1.3 chip to bitstream.
Marty913
02-14-2009, 12:07 PM
bingo. name one piece of electronics that doesn't have problems??? it can't be done.. the Panny players are no more problematic than say any other brand out there.
You info is right on.. do your homework. I have had zero, zilch, nada problems with my Panny BD55 :D
I bought the Panasonic BD35 in early December after hanging out at AVS and doing most of my research there. It was also an Editors Choice for both Sound & Vision and Home Theater which didn't hurt (it still is). Anyway, zero problems, fantastic up-conversion, fast load times, 2 minor Internet upgrades without a problem. No complaints and highly recommended.
Dark Knight for the demo disk although the others mentioned are great also. I see Walmart has dropped the price of Batman Begins to $20 so that's not bad either.
digitalvideo
02-14-2009, 12:40 PM
Unless you are looking for something like SACD on discontinued models, I'm not sure why you would go on ebay to purchase a ps3 (especially for $500) when they retail for only $399. And all the features you list for the pioneers are the same for the ps3. Fast loading, profile 2.0 (which is the same as BD-live), internal decoding of all the latest formats. Also, receivers far under $2000 will decode the latest audio formats.
You fail to mention the more obvious advantages of a dedicated player over the ps3, like analog outs for backward compatibility with older, non-hdmi equipment and the ps3's use of bluetooth instead of IR for its remote requiring a third party solution for universal remotes.
The reason why I like the Pioneer is they have interconnectivity for special features only activated when you connect a Prioneer Kuro to a Pioneer reciever to a Pioneer blu-ray. When a Blu-ray Disc player is connected to a Pioneer KURO display, KURO Link provides a tailored picture setting between the TV and Blu-ray player. Pioneer sought to create jitter-free playback and dynamic sound quality for music CDs. When connected to a Pioneer receiver via HDMI, these Blu-ray Disc players enhances CD playback with the proprietary Precision Quartz Lock System (PQLS).
Precision Quartz Lock System (PQLS) - Jitter free audio transmission for CD playback. Feature synchronizes music data coming from the Blu-ray Disc player to a connected Pioneer A/V receiver giving music fanatics a revolutionary high resolution listening experience far exceeding traditional methods.
Jitter Reduction Circuit – To reduce potential for out of sync HD audio and video content to negatively impact the home theater experience, the new circuitry basically times the content (information) so it is distributed from source to display in sync for accurate reproduction to the viewer.
My friend has this setup and he also has a PS3 and you can tell the difference in picture and sound quality, not by much, but you can notice it.
dfranks
02-14-2009, 05:57 PM
I just pulled the trigger on a Pioneer BDp51 FD It did come down to this BR and the Panny BD35, I went with the pioneer (from what I had heard here) and in a sisde by side comparison it just looks like better build quality. We'll see when I get it home next week.
Do you guys know where I could download the firmware version 1.7?
It comes with 1.5 and I do not have long cable to connect LAN yet.
Thanks.
Got it. was stupid enough sticking in US site.
http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/bd/download/bd55/bd55_na.html
javygonx
02-19-2009, 09:10 PM
PS3 vs BD Player. I have both. At first PS3 was my favorite. My BD Player is a cheap Memorex MVBD2510 (Not the best, I just bought it because its so cheap, but can decode TrueHD, PCM Uncompressed, and DTS-HD, NOT DTS-MA!, but can bistream all (trueHD, PCM, DTS-MA, etc)
PS3 is so FAST, can decode, but ONLY via PCM!. I tried all Bluray Movies (TrueHD, PCM Uncompressed and DTS-MA using the PS3 via PCM and Bitstream. I did same test using the Memorex by bitstreaming.
And to be honest with you, using the cheap memorex bitstreaming hd sound sounds via HDMI sounds better than using the PS3 via PCM thru HDMI.
I did another test and was using 5.1 discrete analog outputs from the Memorex and using the analog inputs of the Marantz to see if it sounds the HD audio is pretty similar as using HDMI. And on all my test, HDMI always sounds better, I also test using 5.1 Digital Audio via Toslink, and trust me it even sounds better than using the discrete analog.
So I dont know about all of you guys, but using discrete its just ok for receivers that does not even has Optical Connections because at least on my tests using Fibre Optics Tosling Audio sounds better than discrete but not better than HDMI.
So you have Xbox and if game playing its not your primary choice, get the Panny Bluray Player. I will upgrade my Memorex for the new Pioneer that will comes out this summer or any other with pretty good DACs.
Any thoughts?
cheddar
02-19-2009, 09:26 PM
This isn't a surprising result as except for the test using the analog outs, your marantz is doing the heavy lifting for sound quality with its internal DACs and digital processing modes. There shouldn't be a difference between bitstreaming from a cheap player and an expensive player as all you're doing is passing the unprocessed lossless encode from the player to the AVR. The largest difference should have occured when you forced the digital to analog conversion through the cheap electronics of the player.
In theory there shouldn't be a hearable difference between the PS3s LPCM and a bitstream signal decoded by a receiver? Since the PCM is NOT compressed sound and the SAME receiver is doing the DAC work in both cases!
It's a bit hard for me to believe you heard a difference. But some of this is a 'subjective' phenomena.
What does anyone else think?
cnh
cheddar
02-19-2009, 09:38 PM
Another thing to consider is if your AVR is applying the required 10db subwoofer boost on non-bitstreamed signals. AVRs always apply this boost with bitstreamed signals automatically because the AVR knows the format of the original signal (TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, DD, DTS). However, with non-bitstreamed signals, the AVR has no way of knowing if it's HT material, SACD, etc. So it doesn't always apply the boost and you may have to manually configure it to do so. Dolby and DTS tracks record the subwoofer signal -10db to conserve bandwidth and it needs to be boosted after the decode. You will notice an incorrect configuration by comparing the subwoofer bass output between the bitstreamed and non-bitstreamed version. If the non-bitstreamed is very weak, manually configure the 10db boost in the bass management of your AVR.
Another thing to consider is if your AVR is applying the required 10db subwoofer boost on non-bitstreamed signals. AVRs always apply this boost with bitstreamed signals automatically because the AVR knows the format of the original signal (TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, DD, DTS). However, with non-bitstreamed signals, the AVR has no way of knowing if it's HT material, SACD, etc. So it doesn't always apply the boost and you may have to manually configure it to do so. Dolby and DTS tracks record the subwoofer signal -10db to conserve bandwidth and it needs to be boosted after the decode. You will notice an incorrect configuration by comparing the subwoofer bass output between the bitstreamed and non-bitstreamed version. If the non-bitstreamed is very weak, manually configure the 10db boost in the bass management of your AVR.
That's great info.
Do you guys know how can I do that with B&K 30 DVD-A input?
http://www.bkcomp.com/fileadmin/content/content_products/manuals/Past/Preamp%20or%20receiver/Reference%2030.pdf
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:indABvuJvVEJ:www.bigpicturebigsound .com/How_To_Set_up_a_Blu-ray_Player_Using_Multi-Channel_Analog_Outputs_And_Why.shtml+how+to+analog +blu+ray+connection&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us
Rike255
02-20-2009, 04:10 PM
I tried the S550 for a while and it is very nice. As far as Blu-Ray PQ/AQ goes, both models would likely be identical. I think you can get the Sony for quite a bit cheaper though. It also decodes all he high def codecs (The Panny may or may not, I'm not sure).
cheddar
02-21-2009, 10:21 AM
That's great info.
Do you guys know how can I do that with B&K 30 DVD-A input?
http://www.bkcomp.com/fileadmin/content/content_products/manuals/Past/Preamp%20or%20receiver/Reference%2030.pdf
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:indABvuJvVEJ:www.bigpicturebigsound .com/How_To_Set_up_a_Blu-ray_Player_Using_Multi-Channel_Analog_Outputs_And_Why.shtml+how+to+analog +blu+ray+connection&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us
Just took a quick look, but you're trying to increase the subwoofer while keeping all the other speakers the same. The favorites setting looks like it has a db adjustment for all the speakers without isolating the subwoofer. It does have a dvd-a setting which might apply a -10db adjustment to the subwoofer (as you would need for dvd-a music if the component applies a 10db boost to all inputs) but it wasn't specific to what it does in the manual or I just didn't catch it in my quick read. So it might be as easy as just disabling the dvd-a setting if you have it set to yes.
Another route would be to use a preset that boosts only the subwoofer 10db.
In any case, make sure you have the symptom of a thin subwoofer on non-bitstreamed material for home theater sources first before you mess with a good calibration.
Just took a quick look, but you're trying to increase the subwoofer while keeping all the other speakers the same. The favorites setting looks like it has a db adjustment for all the speakers without isolating the subwoofer. It does have a dvd-a setting which might apply a -10db adjustment to the subwoofer (as you would need for dvd-a music if the component applies a 10db boost to all inputs) but it wasn't specific to what it does in the manual or I just didn't catch it in my quick read. So it might be as easy as just disabling the dvd-a setting if you have it set to yes.
Another route would be to use a preset that boosts only the subwoofer 10db.
In any case, make sure you have the symptom of a thin subwoofer on non-bitstreamed material for home theater sources first before you mess with a good calibration.
Thanks cheddar, I was totally missed out those preset. :)
I was watching Dark Knight and Dave Matthew today. I love this player. I never thought my speakers are that good.
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