Blu-Ray Purchase Decision

[Early B.]

I'm considering the purchase of a blu-ray player. Home theater is not a priority, so I haven't been keeping up the blu-ray players. I want something cheap (<$300). Here's a list of what I have so far:

Pioneer BDP-51FD
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Samsung BD-P1500
Sony BDP-S550

Which ones should I avoid?

[janmike]

I own the Panasonic BD30 and never had a problem. Works for me.

[Keiko]

I own the Panasonic BD30 and never had a problem. Works for me.
+1...I don't own one, but I've seen excellent reviews on the Panny's.

[MikeC78]

With the going price on the Pioneer, I'd get that one in a heart beat.

[leroyjr1]

I've heard good things about the Sony and Panasonic blu-ray players. The Samsung players in the past have had problems.

I own the SonyBDP-350 & the ps3 both are great players.

[MikeC78]

Early,

Here is a review of someone comparing the Pioneer, Sony, and Panny. BTW, that review was done late last year, there has been a few firmware updates since then improving the load times from what I read.

http://forums.dvdfile.com/high-definition-hardware/66536-review-pioneer-bdp-51fd-blu-ray-disc-player.html

[steveinaz]

I own and really like my Panasonic BD30.

[Sami]

Unless you are soon upgrading your prepro, get the 550. It's the only one that decodes HD formats through analog outputs.

[Early B.]

Early,

Here is a review of someone comparing the Pioneer, Sony, and Panny. BTW, that review was done late last year, there has been a few firmware updates since then improving the load times from what I read.

http://forums.dvdfile.com/high-definition-hardware/66536-review-pioneer-bdp-51fd-blu-ray-disc-player.html

Thanks.

I'm leaning towards the Pioneer. My TV is only 1080i. If we assume the OP is correct about the superior picture quality of the Pioneer, will this limit my PQ with particular player?

[Early B.]

Unless you are soon upgrading your prepro, get the 550. It's the only one that decodes HD formats through analog outputs.

The pre/pro upgrade is coming as soon as Emotiva releases the UMC-1. I'm guessing in the next three months.

[MikeC78]

Thanks.

I'm leaning towards the Pioneer. My TV is only 1080i. If we assume the OP is correct about the superior picture quality of the Pioneer, will this limit my PQ with particular player?

Early,

I haven't done any research on how the player outputs at 1080i. It really all depends on how the player processes 1080i, I would have to believe that it's still good.

You can read a lot more on that player here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1054927

EDIT: Actually, from what I read in the review is that you can "force" 1080p output on the player, then in your case it would be up to your display on how well it down scales.

[WilliamM2]

Thanks.

I'm leaning towards the Pioneer. My TV is only 1080i. If we assume the OP is correct about the superior picture quality of the Pioneer, will this limit my PQ with particular player?

I got the Pio 51 on friday from 6th ave for $264. As far as picture quality, I don't think you will find much difference between players when watching BD. For SD the Pioneer is supposedly a better upconverting player, and I would tend to agree, it looks better than the other BD players that I have tried. It also looks better than any of the SDD DVD players I've tried, except the Oppo 983.

If your TV is 1080i, make sure that it will support a 1080p input. This thing only puts out 480i or 1080p. My set is 720p, but accepts any input.

[WilliamM2]

Early,

I haven't done any research on how the player outputs at 1080i. It really all depends on how the player processes 1080i, I would have to believe that it's still good.

You can read a lot more on that player here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1054927


It won't put out 1080i, only 480i or 1080p. Althought the manual says different.

[MikeC78]

It won't put out 1080i, only 480i or 1080p. Althought the manual says different.

Damn, it won't put out?:eek:

You are correct on if his display will accept 1080P, make sure of that first.

[smoke3]

You might want to condider sony's PS3 It's a top notch blueray player wireless for updates and you can game on it to boot.

[Early B.]

If your TV is 1080i, make sure that it will support a 1080p input. This thing only puts out 480i or 1080p. My set is 720p, but accepts any input.

OK, thanks. I'll check when I get home this evening.

[Erik Tracy]

I'm considering the purchase of a blu-ray player. Home theater is not a priority, so I haven't been keeping up the blu-ray players. I want something cheap (<$300). Here's a list of what I have so far:

Pioneer BDP-51FD
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Samsung BD-P1500
Sony BDP-S550

Which ones should I avoid?


How do you plan on connecting it to your avr?

If you are an analog type of guy, be aware that such a plan means that for the advanced lossless codecs, you will be relying on the player to do all format decoding, then DAC conversion to your avr.

The Pioneer BDP-51FD will not decode the lossless advanced format for DTS-MA HD....folks have been waiting and waiting for a f/w upgrade for this, but nothing is definite yet for this player.

If you are an HDMI type of guy, then just make sure that your avr can decode all audio formats and that the player can be set to bitstream.

While folks may not think highly of the avsforum because of the general attitudes there towards 'audiophiles', it is a good knowledge base for specific products.

I would recommend you check out the "official owner" threads for the various players you've listed and read up on the general quirks of each player in question.

All seem to have issues.

Like I complained about in another thread - informed choices seem revolve around selecting a player that meets your requirements AND factors in known bugs, quirks, and problems.

Just my deflated 02cents worth, but the least troublesome player that does most functions adequately is the PS3.

In my opinion, it is a shame that vendors unload products that require users to perform f/w upgrades on their own, send products back for upgrades, or to mine data on support groups to uncover work arounds or secret tricks to get them just to function.

[Early B.]

You are correct on if his display will accept 1080P, make sure of that first.

I just checked. I don't believe my TV will accept 1080p. It's a Sony Wega KDF-E50A10 50" LCD TV.

I appreciate everyone's input. This is a bit more complex than I anticipated. I think I'll wait until I replace my pre/pro, that'll make things much more seamless.

Oh, and I'd love to upgrade the TV someday to one with a larger screen. How can a TV less than 3 years old be outdated? I remember the days when a TV lasted 10 or 15 years, no problem.

[WilliamM2]

I just checked. I don't believe my TV will accept 1080p. It's a Sony Wega KDF-E50A10 50" LCD TV.

I appreciate everyone's input. This is a bit more complex than I anticipated. I think I'll wait until I replace my pre/pro, that'll make things much more seamless.

Oh, and I'd love to upgrade the TV someday to one with a larger screen. How can a TV less than 3 years old be outdated? I remember the days when a TV lasted 10 or 15 years, no problem.

Sorry, I goofed. The Pioneer will output 480i, 480p,1080i and 1080p. It will do everything but 720p (native res of my set). I read it wrong.

[dfranks]

How do you plan on connecting it to your avr?

If you are an analog type of guy, be aware that such a plan means that for the advanced lossless codecs, you will be relying on the player to do all format decoding, then DAC conversion to your avr.

The Pioneer BDP-51FD will not decode the lossless advanced format for DTS-MA HD....folks have been waiting and waiting for a f/w upgrade for this, but nothing is definite yet for this player.

If you are an HDMI type of guy, then just make sure that your avr can decode all audio formats and that the player can be set to bitstream

Unless you and I are looking at different players or I am reading something wrong,according to the pioneer website the BDP-51FD does indeed decode DTS HD Master Audio.

I have posted their spec sheet for your perusal, As a side note the 51-FD can be set to bitstream over HDMI.

PERFORMANCE FEATURES

Spectacular 1080p Picture Quality: The BDP-51FD provides up to 1920 x 1080p resolution for an unrivaled picture quality. And with True24FPS, now see your movies as the director intended.
Single-Wire Connection: One HDMI® 1.3a digital connection is all you need from the BDP-51FD to output both HD audio and video signals to your HDMI-capable A/V receiver or HD flat panel. Compared to typical connections, the HDMI interface replaces multiple cords without degradation in signal quality between components. HDMI 1.3a also provides 12-bit deep color support, improving subtle gradations between colors.
HDMI Control: Master your home theater universe. The BDP-51FD supports HDMI Control, which allows you to seamlessly control all your HDMI Control-equipped Pioneer A/V equipment with a single remote.
Wolfson™ Audio DACs: Each DAC features a signal-to-noise ratio of 117db. Wolfson DACs provide top-notch audio performance from music and movie soundtracks.
Exclusive Jitter Reduction Circuit: Utilizing a Pioneer developed IC, this circuit digitally reshapes the waveform of the audio clock to greatly reduce jitter for all content.
Frequency Control Circuit: By tuning the low-pass filter, waveform distortion of the coaxial digital output is greatly reduced for improved audio performance.
Picture Control Suite: 13 different video adjustments (Progressive Motion, PureCinema, YNR, CNR, BNR, MNR, Detail, White Level, Black Level, Black Setup, Gamma Correction, Hue, and Chroma Level)
3 Different Noise Reduction Circuits: 3D Noise Reduction: ––based on pixel-per-pixel basis to reduce Gaussian Noise without blurring the image.
lock and Mosquito Noise Reduction: to enhance poorly created content.
BonusView Support: Independent High-Definition simultaneous video streams. Watch your Blu-ray disc movies while watching the bonus features at the same time. (Picture-in-Picture)
7.1 Channel Analog Audio Outputs: for compatibility with non-HDMI equipped receivers and preamps.
Internal Audio Decoders: The BDP-51FD features internal decoding of all advanced audio formats including Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution, and DTS-HD Master*. The BDP‑51FD also provides bit-stream audio over the HDMI jack of all of the above formats.
Easy Operation and Setup: New Advanced HD GUIs for easy navigation.
Latest Generation PureCinema Deinterlacer: Multi-Format Compatibilty: The BDP-51FD is compatible with BD‑ROM, BD-R, BD-RE, DVD-Video, DVD-R (Video Mode) / RW (Video Mode), and CD media.
TERMINALS

[Erik Tracy]

Unless you and I are looking at different players or I am reading something wrong,according to the pioneer website the BDP-51FD does indeed decode DTS HD Master Audio.

I have posted their spec sheet for your perusal, As a side note the 51-FD can be set to bitstream over HDMI.

PERFORMANCE FEATURES

Spectacular 1080p Picture Quality: The BDP-51FD provides up to 1920 x 1080p resolution for an unrivaled picture quality. And with True24FPS, now see your movies as the director intended.
Single-Wire Connection: One HDMI® 1.3a digital connection is all you need from the BDP-51FD to output both HD audio and video signals to your HDMI-capable A/V receiver or HD flat panel. Compared to typical connections, the HDMI interface replaces multiple cords without degradation in signal quality between components. HDMI 1.3a also provides 12-bit deep color support, improving subtle gradations between colors.
HDMI Control: Master your home theater universe. The BDP-51FD supports HDMI Control, which allows you to seamlessly control all your HDMI Control-equipped Pioneer A/V equipment with a single remote.
Wolfson™ Audio DACs: Each DAC features a signal-to-noise ratio of 117db. Wolfson DACs provide top-notch audio performance from music and movie soundtracks.
Exclusive Jitter Reduction Circuit: Utilizing a Pioneer developed IC, this circuit digitally reshapes the waveform of the audio clock to greatly reduce jitter for all content.
Frequency Control Circuit: By tuning the low-pass filter, waveform distortion of the coaxial digital output is greatly reduced for improved audio performance.
Picture Control Suite: 13 different video adjustments (Progressive Motion, PureCinema, YNR, CNR, BNR, MNR, Detail, White Level, Black Level, Black Setup, Gamma Correction, Hue, and Chroma Level)
3 Different Noise Reduction Circuits: 3D Noise Reduction: ––based on pixel-per-pixel basis to reduce Gaussian Noise without blurring the image.
lock and Mosquito Noise Reduction: to enhance poorly created content.
BonusView Support: Independent High-Definition simultaneous video streams. Watch your Blu-ray disc movies while watching the bonus features at the same time. (Picture-in-Picture)
7.1 Channel Analog Audio Outputs: for compatibility with non-HDMI equipped receivers and preamps.
Internal Audio Decoders: The BDP-51FD features internal decoding of all advanced audio formats including Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution, and DTS-HD Master*. The BDP‑51FD also provides bit-stream audio over the HDMI jack of all of the above formats.
Easy Operation and Setup: New Advanced HD GUIs for easy navigation.
Latest Generation PureCinema Deinterlacer: Multi-Format Compatibilty: The BDP-51FD is compatible with BD‑ROM, BD-R, BD-RE, DVD-Video, DVD-R (Video Mode) / RW (Video Mode), and CD media.
TERMINALS

I hope I do not come across as a rumour monger - but I submit this thread for your review:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1054927&page=474
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1054927&page=477

This thread documents actual owners who actually report that the 51FD (nor the 05FD if I understand correctly) does not *currently* decode DTS-MA HD and these owners are posting their direct experiences and hopes that Pioneer eventually does provide a f/w update that provides this claimed feature.

Best Regards,
Erik Tracy

[dfranks]

First off , thanks for the links and the info. Secondly I wasn't able to find any complaints about the DTS HD MA but considering you sent me to 475 of like 480 pages I wasn't sure how much reading I could handle.

For the most part it seems people like this player the upconversion and cd sound seems to be what everyone is happy about. The BLu ray being played on rental BR and DVD seems to cause and issue , some load time complaints and some hang up complaints.

thanks for the info I wish I Had spoken to you sooner as I am awaitng my 51FD to be delivered any day. I am going to remain positive and enjoy this piece of machinery and if it doesn't work out I'll go and research another BR player .

[WilliamM2]

thanks for the info I wish I Had spoken to you sooner as I am awaitng my 51FD to be delivered any day. I am going to remain positive and enjoy this piece of machinery and if it doesn't work out I'll go and research another BR player .

Don't worry, I think you will be happy with the player. Although I have only had mine 4 days, I've tried 25 or so DVD's in it, they all play fine. Make sure you update the firmware to the latest as soon as you hook it up, most of them come with the initial release, and there have been several updates.

The player boots in 19 seconds, DVD's take about the same time to load. There is supposed to be a performance update this month for speed, and another update in March to enable DTS MA decoding in the player. My receiver already decodes all the formats, so no big deal to me.

[Erik Tracy]

First off , thanks for the links and the info. Secondly I wasn't able to find any complaints about the DTS HD MA but considering you sent me to 475 of like 480 pages I wasn't sure how much reading I could handle.

For the most part it seems people like this player the upconversion and cd sound seems to be what everyone is happy about. The BLu ray being played on rental BR and DVD seems to cause and issue , some load time complaints and some hang up complaints.

thanks for the info I wish I Had spoken to you sooner as I am awaitng my 51FD to be delivered any day. I am going to remain positive and enjoy this piece of machinery and if it doesn't work out I'll go and research another BR player .

Please do not construe my posts here as targeting the 51FD with negativity.

I myself have considered this player myself, or its higher priced brethren, the 05FD. It has many strong points which are of interest to me - namely the good feedback of its audio performance as a CD player, good upconversion, and exceptional PQ for blu-rays.

However, if you do have a chance to parse thru the many many pages of the thread I posted, owners have stated in many individual posts some of the other shortcomings of the 51FD:
* no internal decoding of DTS-MA HD
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15839602#post15839602

* layer switching delays with SD DVDs - some owners report that layer switching when watching movies can take up to 3 seconds.

* slow loading times of blu-rays - some owners report that blu-rays can take over a minute to load

I will say that owners of the other BD players, including Sony and Panasonic have other quirks and problems - as posted on the respective "official" product threads at avsforum.com

Again - no indictment against any specific brand - just that each potential buyer should read as much as they can to make an informed purchase.

When you receive your 51FD - please be sure to share your first hand experiences and opinions here - that way more of us can benefit.

Regards,
Erik

[Mike21]

Back in October I received a Samy 1500 as a present. Its plays BDs and SDVDs just fine, but is built like a toy and has no analog 5.1 in.

If I were going to spend my own money I would have gotten a Pany BDK 50 (over your budget).

You can't go wrong with a PS3 if you can find a new one for $250.

[Danny Tse]

I am really tempted to get a Blu-ray player myself after seeing my local Radio Shack clearing out its Sylvania Blu-ray player for $140.00 new-in-box. I have done some research on this model and while it's not the "latest and greatest", it should be ok for my purpose....watching movies and concerts. The machine is made by Funai, which also manufactures Blu-ray players for Magnavox and Best Buy (Insignia).

[Early B.]

I am really tempted to get a Blu-ray player myself after seeing my local Radio Shack clearing out its Sylvania Blu-ray player for $140.00 new-in-box. I have done some research on this model and while it's not the "latest and greatest", it should be ok for my purpose....watching movies and concerts. The machine is made by Funai, which also manufactures Blu-ray players for Magnavox and Best Buy (Insignia).

Don't do it, Danny.

[Danny Tse]

Don't do it, Danny.

Thanks for the advice, Early B.

I am waiting for my tax refund to either get an Oppo 980 or a Blu-ray player....and I am leaning towards the Oppo.

[Sami]

Thanks for the advice, Early B.

I am waiting for my tax refund to either get an Oppo 980 or a Blu-ray player....and I am leaning towards the Oppo.

Why would you get Oppo? SACD seems to be dead or very close to it so that can't be a real big reason anymore. Other than that I can't see a reason to pay that much money for a DVD player.

[digitalvideo]

If you want the best blu-ray machine on the market then go with the Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD, but it's extremely expensive. If you can wait till around April the new '09 Pioneer blu-ray players are coming out which are profile 2.0.

Pioneer has 3 new ones coming out:

Pioneer BDP-120
Pioneer BDP-320
Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD

Those 3 above are all profile 2.0 and are the best on the market. The Pioneer BDP-51FD is an older version that is only profile 1.1.

[WilliamM2]

Those 3 above are all profile 2.0 and are the best on the market. The Pioneer BDP-51FD is an older version that is only profile 1.1.

You know they are the best, before they are even released? Wow. Which stocks should I invest in next year?

BTW, according to Chris over at AVS (Pioneer employee) the $600 23FD uses the same hardware as the 51FD, which is now $275, it only adds 2.0, nothing I have any use for. The other models will be entry level.

The Oppo BDP-83 looks like it will be better than all of them, but hard to tell until it is actually available.

[digitalvideo]

You know they are the best, before they are even released? Wow. Which stocks should I invest in next year?

BTW, according to Chris over at AVS (Pioneer employee) the $600 23FD uses the same hardware as the 51FD, which is now $275, it only adds 2.0, nothing I have any use for. The other models will be entry level.

The Oppo BDP-83 looks like it will be better than all of them, but hard to tell until it is actually available.

The Pioneer BDP-09fd blows the Oppo 83 out of the water and the new Pioneer's coming out in April will do things the Oppo can't do when hooked up to any of the Pioneer Plasma Kuro tv's which are the best tv's on the market.

KURO Link – Pioneer created a synergy throughout their Blu-ray Disc players, A/V receivers and KURO plasmas. KURO Link syncs the Blu-ray Disc player with the connected KURO plasma to allow for unified remote operation between products.

Pioneer's Blu-ray Disc players provide functional advantages when used in conjunction with Pioneer's Elite A/V receivers and KURO displays. KURO Link is an exclusive synergy feature that allows users to easily maneuver between the connected Pioneer products with just a single remote control. A continued commitment to improving overall player operation, the three models deliver significantly reduced power on, disc load and power off times.

KURO Link Picture Mode -- When the player is connected to a Pioneer KURO television an entirely new, dedicated A/V mode is activated on the flat-panel display that optimizes video reproduction between the two devices to deliver a perfectly synced image. KURO Link Picture Mode is also included on the Pioneer BDP-320
Precision Quartz Lock System (PQLS) Multi-Channel -- Jitter free audio transmission for CD playback. Feature synchronizes music data coming from the Blu-ray Disc player to a connected Pioneer A/V receiver giving music fanatics a revolutionary high resolution listening experience far exceeding traditional methods.

You can't get those features on a Pioneer plasma when hooking up an Oppo or Sony or Samsung or anything else.

[digitalvideo]

I own a Pioneer Elite Kuro 111fd, the best tv on the market and the Pioneer BDP-blu-ray systems can let me do things and give me more options with my Kuro plasma that other players can't.

[Early B.]

The Pioneer BDP-09fd blows the Oppo 83 out of the water and the new Pioneer's coming out in April will do things the Oppo can't do when hooked up to any of the Pioneer Plasma Kuro tv's which are the best tv's on the market.

KURO Link – Pioneer created a synergy throughout their Blu-ray Disc players, A/V receivers and KURO plasmas. KURO Link syncs the Blu-ray Disc player with the connected KURO plasma to allow for unified remote operation between products.

Pioneer's Blu-ray Disc players provide functional advantages when used in conjunction with Pioneer's Elite A/V receivers and KURO displays. KURO Link is an exclusive synergy feature that allows users to easily maneuver between the connected Pioneer products with just a single remote control. A continued commitment to improving overall player operation, the three models deliver significantly reduced power on, disc load and power off times.

KURO Link Picture Mode -- When the player is connected to a Pioneer KURO television an entirely new, dedicated A/V mode is activated on the flat-panel display that optimizes video reproduction between the two devices to deliver a perfectly synced image. KURO Link Picture Mode is also included on the Pioneer BDP-320 Precision Quartz Lock System (PQLS) Multi-Channel -- Jitter free audio transmission for CD playback. Feature synchronizes music data coming from the Blu-ray Disc player to a connected Pioneer A/V receiver giving music fanatics a revolutionary high resolution listening experience far exceeding traditional methods.

You can't get those features on a Pioneer plasma when hooking up an Oppo or Sony or Samsung or anything else.

Sounds like a bunch of marketing crap to me.

[WilliamM2]

The Pioneer BDP-09fd blows the Oppo 83 out of the water and the new Pioneer's coming out in April will do things the Oppo can't do when hooked up to any of the Pioneer Plasma Kuro tv's which are the best tv's on the market.


Again with the predictions about a player that has not been released yet. The Oppo will play DVD-A's and SACD's, the Pioneer won't.


KURO Link – Pioneer created a synergy throughout their Blu-ray Disc players, A/V receivers and KURO plasmas. KURO Link syncs the Blu-ray Disc player with the connected KURO plasma to allow for unified remote operation between products.

I just use a Harmony remote, that way I'm not stuck with a single brand of electronics.


KURO Link Picture Mode -- When the player is connected to a Pioneer KURO television an entirely new, dedicated A/V mode is activated on the flat-panel display that optimizes video reproduction between the two devices to deliver a perfectly synced image.

A feature already available on current models, yet most user's claim it looks better in "professional" mode, than in "PDP" mode.


You can't get those features on a Pioneer plasma when hooking up an Oppo or Sony or Samsung or anything else.

Bummer, looks like you are stuck with Pioneer then. Did you know that the three upcoming players will be their last? If they even make it to market...

[digitalvideo]

Again with the predictions about a player that has not been released yet. The Oppo will play DVD-A's and SACD's, the Pioneer won't.



I just use a Harmony remote, that way I'm not stuck with a single brand of electronics.



A feature already available on current models, yet most user's claim it looks better in "professional" mode, than in "PDP" mode.



Bummer, looks like you are stuck with Pioneer then. Did you know that the three upcoming players will be their last? If they even make it to market...

Well if Sony and Samsung keep wasting money on their LED Backlit LCD's I won't have to worry about them surpassing the Pioneer plasma's in picture quality anytime soon as the Pioneer's give the best deepest blacks on the market, even more than Sony's new overated XBR8 which is a joke which cost much more than the Pioneer Elite Kuro. Keep getting ripped off by Sony and Samsung LCD junk. When Sony comes out with their XBR9 go pay $7000 for it and still not get the black levels right.

DVD-A, SACD is a waste just like Beta and HD-DVD was. Should I be disapointed that the Pioneer doesn't play MP3's as well? lol

[WilliamM2]

Well if Sony and Samsung keep wasting money on their LED Backlit LCD's I won't have to worry about them surpassing the Pioneer plasma's in picture quality anytime soon as the Pioneer's give the best deepest blacks on the market, even more than Sony's new overated XBR8 which is a joke which cost much more than the Pioneer Elite Kuro. Keep getting ripped off by Sony and Samsung LCD junk. When Sony comes out with their XBR9 go pay $7000 for it and still not get the black levels right.

DVD-A, SACD is a waste just like Beta and HD-DVD was. Should I be disapointed that the Pioneer doesn't play MP3's as well? lol

Where did I mention Sony or Samsung? You seem to be having a hard time following the discussion.

BTW, for all your vast knowledge, I'm suprised you don't know that ALL the Pioneer players will play MP3's.

[digitalvideo]

Where did I mention Sony or Samsung? You seem to be having a hard time following the discussion.

BTW, for all your vast knowledge, I'm suprised you don't know that ALL the Pioneer players will play MP3's.

haha you made a comment about Pioneer not making plasma's anymore, the Elite Kuro plasma's will have all the picture quality one will need for the next 10 years while other companies work like crazy to try to make LED-Backlit lcd's affordable and have superior blacks compared to plasmas which won't happen anytime soon as the Sony XBR8 proved.

Oppo makes a nice system and have been, it's just "rumors" on what Oppo will actually put in the system where as Pioneer has officially released the full specs on their 2009 lineup. The 3 models will be priced from $299-599.

[digitalvideo]

But remember, those 3 new Pioneer models are their 3 basic models for the mass market to compete against the PS3 and other stand alone BD's, but Pioneer will release a mega BD towards the end of '09 that will surpass the BD09fd.

[WilliamM2]

haha you made a comment about Pioneer not making plasma's anymore, the Elite Kuro plasma's will have all the picture quality one will need for the next 10 years while other companies work like crazy to try to make LED-Backlit lcd's affordable and have superior blacks compared to plasmas which won't happen anytime soon as the Sony XBR8 proved.


You really are having a hard time following the discussion. I never mentioned Pioneer displays at all. This is what I said:


Did you know that the three upcoming players will be their last? If they even make it to market...

Where did I mention plasma's?

[Retro152]

You really are having a hard time following the discussion. I never mentioned Pioneer displays at all. This is what I said:



Where did I mention plasma's?

Oh! he is a wealth of knowledge in the "What receiver to buy" thread. Im ready to take back my sc-05, get out of home audio, and giveup my Polk forum membership:p

[WilliamM2]

Oh! he is a wealth of knowledge in the "What receiver to buy" thread. Im ready to take back my sc-05, get out of home audio, and giveup my Polk forum membership:p

Don't give up the hobby entirely, just trade it in on an Onkyo HTIB. I hear they are great!;)

[Retro152]

Sound advice. heard that somewhere else too. lol:rolleyes:

[digitalvideo]

Oh! he is a wealth of knowledge in the "What receiver to buy" thread. Im ready to take back my sc-05, get out of home audio, and giveup my Polk forum membership:p

Well I'm not the one who spent $1000 dollars more on a system that shares over 90% of the same features as one you can get on ebay for $550, but I guess your "bigger and badder" mentality knows best. Go buy a $100 Monster cable for your sc-05 and tell us how it sounds little fella. haha Let's see what his response will be. This should be good.

[WilliamM2]

Well I'm not the one who spent $1000 dollars more on a system that shares over 90% of the same features as one you can get on ebay for $550

No, your the guy that wasted $1200+ on a Bose system. Case closed.


I can get better bigger sound from my $277 dollar Onkyo 7.1 speaker system than I got from my $1200+ Bose system and the Boston Acoustics MSC130 5.1 I brought back.

[digitalvideo]

No, your the guy that wasted $1200+ on a Bose system. Case closed.

And as I also said, I learned my lesson and brought it back while it was still under warranty and bought a $230 Onkyo system that sounds much better.

Case closed. wink wink

[digitalvideo]

amazon.com had them selling for $277 where I bought it, I should have waited to bid for the $230 one on ebay, I guess I got suckered.

[cheddar]

And as I also said, I learned my lesson and brought it back while it was still under warranty and bought a $230 Onkyo system that sounds much better.

Case closed. wink wink

In another thread after a discussion about building a speaker system around this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NGM84FHVL._SL500_AA280_.jpg


Change of plans. Gonna have to go Klipsch instead. Hope it works out great with the Elite. Reason is, I already have a pair of RF-35 not in use. So all I really need is just the RC-35 center and gonna get a pair of small surrounds. I really do love the sound of horns and the extra dynamic range they produce.

The best advice you could give was to recommend this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/210BF5RRH8L._SL500_AA280_.jpg


When it comes to which speakers to use, the best bang for the buck is the Onkyo SKS-HT540 7.1 system which gives you 7 big speakers and huge sound for around $280 dollars, people are raving about it on amazon.com and trading in their Boston Acoustics MCS100 and MCS130 systems for the Onkyo. The Onkyo is giving bigger sound than many systems costing over $1000.

For around $280 dollars look at what you get:
7.1 channel speaker package
130 watts total output on 2-way bass reflex front, center, and surround speakers
Bass reflex powered subwoofer with 230 watts output
Front and center 2-way speakers feature 5" diaphragm woofers and 1" balanced floating tweeter
Surround speakers feature a 3 1/8" cone woofer and a 3/4" balanced dome tweeter
Subwoofer construction includes a 10" cone driver.

Check the specs and reviews from people at amazon.com about the best bang for the buck for speakers -

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-SKS-HT540-Channel-Theater-Speaker/dp/B000GU78Z4/ref=pd_bbs_7?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1234921827&sr=8-7

William is right in hinting that you should follow the discussion of the thread you are commenting on. You might find that people respond better than if you use the thread as an excuse to just cut and paste from spec sheets and press releases, then make broad claims based on those materials. What lesson did you learn from your experience with BOSE if you would still recommend a HTiB in a discussion of building a system around a floorstanding speaker?

[MikeC78]

This thread turned into a huge train wreck real quick.

First page = Knowledgable

Second Page = DV Trash

Trolls coming out of the word work...

[MikeC78]

If you want the best blu-ray machine on the market then go with the Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD, but it's extremely expensive. If you can wait till around April the new '09 Pioneer blu-ray players are coming out which are profile 2.0.

Pioneer has 3 new ones coming out:

Pioneer BDP-120
Pioneer BDP-320
Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD

Those 3 above are all profile 2.0 and are the best on the market.

You are basing this on what, speculation?? Sounds like diarrhea of the mouth. Really, you are making a claim to be the "best on the market" with three BR players which haven't even been released yet.

[Sami]

Sounds like a bunch of marketing crap to me.

You got it right. PQLS? Yeah, right.

[MikeC78]

You got it right. PQLS? Yeah, right.

Actually, PQLS sounds like a good feature if you pair it with an 05/07 AVR. Suppose to work hand in hand.

Suppose to give you jitter-free CD playback and better audio/video sync with no timing errors. I guess you are more susceptible to lip sync or jitter issues using LPCM.

[Sami]

PQLS doesn't have a thing to do with movie playback according to them. Jitter free CD playback, won't make a difference even if it worked.

[MikeC78]

PQLS doesn't have a thing to do with movie playback according to them. Jitter free CD playback, won't make a difference even if it worked.

I don't see why it wouldn't and not arguing your point either. I'm no engineer, so my simple understanding is that it is simply when the connected devices internal clocks are out of sync. The signal being received is not in sync with the AVR's clock and it is said to introduce smearing into the signal and sound. Others can provide links and much better explanations than I. The PQLS is said to let the AVR control the clock of the BDP, it lets the AVR demand and receive the signal as it wants, and at the proper rate.

[MikeC78]

PQLS doesn't have a thing to do with movie playback according to them. Jitter free CD playback, won't make a difference even if it worked.

Ok, no movie or video playback as I understand, correct. Why wouldn't it make a difference, I can maybe agree that you might not notice the difference.:)

[Sami]

Jitter on CD playback is pretty much a non-issue. Even if there was improvement by PQLS it wouldn't be audible. I am sure there are some who feel it would make a difference, that's why Pioneer made it. :D

[digitalvideo]

Seeing the display at the 2009 CES was convincing enough for me in the improvement in picture quality over my Panasonic BD. I can access more features and adjustments on a Pioneer Kuro, Pioneer reciever and Pioneer blu-ray when connected together than I could with mixing and matching different brands. Yes, the Oppo looks nice as well but I have never used or have any desire for DVD-A and SACD. What I care most about is picture and audio quality, access to more adjustments/tuneabilty, faster loading.

[Sami]

Seeing the display at the 2009 CES was convincing enough for me in the improvement in picture quality over my Panasonic BD.

Did they have both the Pioneer and Panasonic connected? I am assuming this was at Pioneer booth? That would be weird from them.