More upset than setup: need help

[blurayhooray]

I'm new to HT and a first-time poster to this site and could use some advice, any of which would be much appreciated.

I just got my RTi A1 speakers from amazon.com today and am quite confused as to the set up. The polk owner's manual doesn't much help in this regard. Basically, some of my questions:

1) do I use the top or bottom, or both rows of the black/red connectors on the back of the speakers?

2) what's with the gold metal pieces that vertically join the black/black and red/red connectors? do I need to remove these?
note: I've ordered 14 gw from parts-express, along with banana plug connectors, so that would maybe impact answers to the 2 questions above.

As far as my system:

1) oppo 181 dvd player
2) samsung 1500 BR
3) samsung LNT 40" lcd
4) current speakers: Bose 141 bookshelf
5) Sony STR-D590 receiver, circa 1993 (same vintage as the Bose speakers).

As you can see, my new Polks are my first small steps into the audio part of HT. I'd like to continue to use my current receiver for the time being. Would that be compatible with my RTi's? Would it damage them in any way?

Also my receiver has spring-type connectors for 2 pairs (A and B) of fronts (my bose are hooked up to A) and 1-pair of rear or the "surround speaker system" (according to the Sony manual).

Is it advisable, on such an old receiver, to A) hook up both the new polks and old bose, or B) just the polks?

If I go with option A, how is the wiring set up between speaker and AR? with option B, polks alone? If alone, should I use also the "surround speaker system" spring connectors??

thanks for any and all of your input!!

[BlueFox]

I'm new to HT and a first-time poster to this site and could use some advice, any of which would be much appreciated.

1) do I use the top or bottom, or both rows of the black/red connectors on the back of the speakers?

Either is fine. These connectors give you the option to either bi-wire, or bi-amp the speakers. DO NOT worry about that for now, if ever.


2) what's with the gold metal pieces that vertically join the black/black and red/red connectors? do I need to remove these?

These jumpers would be removed if you were going to bi-wire, or bi-amp the speakers. DO NOT remove them now, if ever.


Is it advisable, on such an old receiver, to A) hook up both the new polks and old bose, or B) just the polks?

I do not think you are getting HT by running A+B speakers. This is primarily designed for having two sets of speakers in two differant locations.

Personally, I would just use the Polks. If you do hook up both pair use 'A' for Polk and 'B' for Bose. That just powers the speakers selected (A or B). When you go A+B (A and B) it powers both pair, and there is the possibility damage could occur if the volume is cranked up high. This is just conjecture on my part since I know nothing of this amp.

[phipiper10]

Use the top -
the metal thing is a jumper it stays on until some time in the distant future - can be discussed only after 1000 posts ; )

You could probably run both speakers assuming the receiver allows that but you probably get more out of the receiver/speakers if you just run one set.

When you get a new receiver then you can actually have real surround - you'll need a center channel and would likely want a sub. Receivers are getting pretty cheap and if you want surround you should make the leap.

Welcome to the forum!

[blurayhooray]

thanks guys for replying and your very helpful comments. Much appreciated!

One other thing: when I connect the banana plugs to the back of the RTi's, I assume I have to remove the entire black and red lugs (otherwise the plug doesn't fit).

thanks again!

[Erik Tracy]

thanks guys for replying and your very helpful comments. Much appreciated!

One other thing: when I connect the banana plugs to the back of the RTi's, I assume I have to remove the entire black and red lugs (otherwise the plug doesn't fit).

thanks again!

Hmmm....you shouldn't have to.

I have the RTiA3s and I experimented with putting banana connectors into the top 'row' and was able to get them to fit into the holes without completely removing the screw on caps.

Maybe the banana plugs you have are bigger. Not sure :confused:

[Mike21]

Hi bluray.

1. The binding posts on your Polks have a round caps at the top which need to be removed so that you can insert the bananas in the holes.

2. The top row of binding posts should be used as that is what is shown in the diagram of your Polk "Manual".

Enjoy! :p

[blurayhooray]

thanks guys for the feedback about the lugs. I did of course remove the plug (which was wedged snuggly within each lug) in order to get the banana plug to fit.

I must though have bought a larger banana than yours, as I had to remove the red and black lugs completely in order for the plug to fit the speaker jack.

I must say the first day or two I was a bit disappointed in the sound of the my RTi 1 speakers, and was on the verge of even sending them back. They didn't sound like much of an upgrade over my ol' Bose. I thought maybe it was due to the limited capacity of my equally old (1992) Sony AR or maybe the speaker wire (I bought 14Gw where maybe 12Gw would've been better). Anyway, I'm happy to say that over the last two days the sound has improved somewhat; it's richer, for sure. Maybe that's the break in period or the slight change in speaker location (I moved them a bit closer together). I'm giving them another chance!

Thanks again to all 4 of you for answering. It's good to be aboard.

[Mike21]

Glad to hear you got the speakers going.

I don't know the burn in time for your speakers, but I'd guess its at least 50 hours playing time.

[metal83]

Use the top -


The top row of binding posts should be used as that is what is shown in the diagram of your Polk "Manual".

I thought it made no difference whether you use the top or bottom row of binding posts.

[comfortablycurt]

I thought it made no difference whether you use the top or bottom row of binding posts.

It doesn't make a difference...I'm guessing Polk just put that in the manuals to prevent people from feeling the need to ask which set they should use.

[metal83]

I'm guessing Polk just put that in the manuals to prevent people from feeling the need to ask which set they should use.

The manuals? Oh....Those little two page things packaged with each speaker, ok i gotcha. :p

[comfortablycurt]

The manuals? Oh....Those little two page things packaged with each speaker, ok i gotcha. :p

Perhaps pamphlet would be a more appropriate term?..lol

[metal83]

Perhaps pamphlet would be a more appropriate term?..lol

Whatever floats your boat! :p

[apphd]

It looks like that receiver is an early surround receiver (Dolby Surround only) so I would hook up the Polks to the front A output and the Bose to the surround rears. Do you have a manual? If not here is a link click on operating instructions (http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/model-documents.pl?mdl=STRD590)

and welcome to CP

[blurayhooray]

and the link to the user's manual. I actually still have the manual that came with the unit in 1993! (I tend to keep stuff!).

Page 7 of the manual says "this receiver is designed to work best with speakers having the nominal impedance from 8 to 16 ohms. Be sure to use a speaker system with adequate nominal impedance & power handling capabilities.

Also, use all speakers to be connected with the equal efficiency"

So attaching the Bose 141s as the surround rear speakers won't take away anything from my new Polks? Would the old Boses be of "equal efficiency" with the RTi A1s?

[hearingimpared]

Welcome to Club Polk blurayhooray.

[apphd]

They are both 8 ohm speakers (A1 and the Bose) so no need to worry about impedance. You should also not worry about the power handling capabilities. Not real familiar with the Bose speakers but I am guessing they may be a little more efficient than the A1's. I don't think there will be enough of a difference to worry about especially if the receiver has a menu that will allow you to set individual speaker volume. Most do and have done for some time, just not sure about yours.

[blurayhooray]

thanks for all of your replies and welcomes.

A week ago I wired my existing old Bose bookshelves to complement my new Polk RTiA1 in order to get as much of surround sound as I could from my vintage 1992 Sony AR (many thanks, APPHD--the AR actually is Dolby Surround and "Time Link," whatever that is).

Anyway, using my BR and DVD players, I heard nothing from the rear Bose speakers unless the volume coming from the Polks was turned way, way down and then only the lowest of low sound. I re-connected the Boses as speakers "B" just to make sure the wiring was ok, which it was.

A day later, while watching the same BR (Dark Knight--my benchmark BR!) the surround suddenly kicked in. WOW! I even had to adjust things as the sound was too intense. I tried another BR disc, same satisfying results.

The next day, the surround was gone as quickly as it appeared. I tried the same and other discs (BR and dvd), nada--if anything only at times that faint, barely audible sound coming from my Bose (when the sound from the Polks, which work just fine, was turned way down).

I'm not familiar at all with the AR controls associated with surround, other than using the mode "surround" (vs. Hall and Simulated). Also I'm not sure what the "delay time" button does, other than toggle the display between "s" (which I assume is surround), "M" and "L" (no idea about these, the manual doesn't help here).

So, I know I can get basic surround BUT: how do I get it BACK??:confused:

[cnh]

That's an old Dolby pro-logic receiver. So you should select Dolby (whatever--the option reads on the receiver) those Hall, etc items are surround effects--don't worry about those or select them. Delay button is not something to concern yourself here--it's for adjusting the delay in sound effects to speakers--doesn't affect volume at all. M/L not sure what that is. But there should be a LEVEL control for your rear speakers somewhere in your menus.

I'm not sure if the manual for a 92 would still be on Sony's site. But you can check their support section on the website.. www.sony.com

If you can't find the manual there there are a number of sites that sell manuals for older products as downloads.

I used to have a Pro-logic receiver and if something is not encoded in Prologic you will experience the problem with rears that you are describing.

One last thing, early pro-logic receivers did not provide equal power to all 5 speakers...in the early 90s for example a 100 watt receiver might provide 100 to L/R fronts and 20-40 watts to the other channels? Over time all 5 channels got equal power. Not sure what year that happened.

Don't know if this helps..

cnh

[blurayhooray]

thanks, cnh. I don't think it's even Pro Logic, just Dolby Surround. I do still have the manual, but that is of no help with surround.

What menus are you referring to? I don't think I have something like on-screen menus with this old of a AR.

[apphd]

I was thinking Pro-logic matrix'd stereo signals with no encoding involved. On your BR player is there something in the menu for stereo output. I'm thinking the AVR may have been seeing this as a mono signal for some reason, or an intermittent problem with the amp itself. Double check and clean your connections. I would think the rear speaker connections on the amp not being used for so long could have a little corrosion. How do you have the speaker wires connected?

[cnh]

There should be some menus available on the front panel of the receiver...or there may be actual buttons for upping and lowering the surround volume separately. There was on my old Dolby receiver. Look for something like that.

And on my old receiver when you cycled through hall, etc. one of the items was DOLBY...thats' what you want.

cnh

[blurayhooray]

thanks for your replies, guys.

cnh: I've been keeping the mode set to dolby; and there are separate volume + - buttons for surround, the loudest setting is 10 dB and the lowest is something like -75dB. Just to add, according to the manual the power output of the surround amp is 10W.

apphd: I'm not sure what your first sentence means (due to my own lack of HT knowledge, I'm sure). My BR does have 3 audio settings one of which is PCM, the other two Bitstream (Re-encode and Audiophile) and is connected to my LCD by HDMI only (carries it seems the audio too). Obviously, I have to have just regular r/l cables going from the LCD to my old AR.

I'll definitely have to check the connections tomorrow. With the Boses, I'm using just wire to the spring-type connections on both the speakers and the AR. It might well be a corrosion issue, as I don't believe before this week ever using the surround rear connections in the 16-year life of the AR!

I should add that I had my entire system disconnected for some 36 hrs (power strip unplugged, etc.) just before the surround sound kicked in.

[bsoko2]

Go to this site for answers to setting up a home theater: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=824554.

Bill

[apphd]

thanks for your replies, guys......

apphd: I'm not sure what your first sentence means .....

I was wrong on this anyway. Pro Logic is an encoded format, but it is carried on a 2 ch stereo track. Dolby Digital or AC3 as it was first called, actually has true discrete multi channel sound tracks.

Pro Logic used phase shifts to record the center and rear signals on the same tracks as the R L stereo. An even earlier version "Dolby Surround" did the same thing but without a center channel, these are an analog format.

I'm not sure if you would get a Pro Logic signal out of the analog out of your tv. Do your BR and DVD players have analog outs? If so and they carry the Dolby Digital license this should give you a Pro Logic signal over the analog outs. All Dolby Digital decoders are supposed to have the ability to take a Dolby Digital soundtrack and output a Pro Logic signal on the analog stereo R L outputs. I suppose the tv may also be able to do this if it has Dolby Digital decoder and has passed Dolby Labs licensing test requirements. But I'm not sure how the tv would handle this if fed a digital signal over HDMI.

[blurayhooray]

thanks again everyone for your input and help. It's nice to know such a helpful forum exists.

The bad news is that I wasn't successful in reviving that one hour of surround sound that I managed last week, with your help, to coax out of my old Sony AR.

The good news is that I've decided to retire the old workhorse after 16 good AV years and instead to get with the program so I can more fully enjoy my new Polk speakers & my BR player. In fact, I just ordered a Yamaha RX-V465, which should be arriving this week!!

[apphd]

blu, not sure if a "sorry":mad: or a congrats is due:) probably would have been nice on the budget if you were able to stick with your old AVR. But there have been a lot of changes in the last 16 years, and you probably would have done this sooner or later anyway. Unfortunately now you have started down the road that may be long and costly. ;) I have 2 more bits of advice to pass on to you.

1. Stay off of the forums NOW
or
2. Start researching center ch speakers and subs now, because it won't be long, before you want to make that move. If you hang out here it will be sooner rather than later:D

[blurayhooray]

Well, thanks appHD, :) but I can't stay off the forums completely because there are always questions, like this:

-I got my new AVR today, things certainly have changed since '93!

-I've hooked everything up, ran the automated speaker set up, and now have some version of surround (with my 2 fronts and 2 rears)

-One thing I haven't gotten is sound coming from my TV and I'm not sure why. My set up is as follows:

1. Oppo 981 to AVR via HDMI 2
2. Samsung 1500BR to AVR via HDMI 1
3. AVR--via HDMI out--to TV's HDMI in

I still have to mess around with the labeling, so that my BR should read hdmi1 onscreen (it still reads hdmi2, as that is what "in" I used on the TV before getting my new AVR). Regardless of what it's called, it works just fine.

My MAIN question right now is why the TV sound is NOT available through my 4 f/r speakers? Is it a a) cable issue or b) set up issue with my new AVR?

thanks to all!

[blurayhooray]

Just to clarify: I have sound when using my tuner, BR and dvd, just not when switching to the TV.

I thought having an hdmi connection out from the AVR to the TV would take care of the sound?

[apphd]

blu, not sure if I follow you correctly here. By "TV sound" do you mean audio for a cablebox, sat receiver or off air brodcasts? Or are you saying that you are not getting audio when you play the Oppo or the BR player? Or just no audio from the BR?

I'll take a guess you are talking the BR only and it is probably a selection issue. You may need to go into the BRP and tell it to output audio on HDMI, maybe even tell it what format to output, i.e. bitstream, Dolby Digital, DTS etc.

Or maybe a setting in the AVR like assigning the audio input on HDMI 1 to be on HDMI. Just some shots in the dark to look at.

[cnh]

Well, thanks appHD, :) but I can't stay off the forums completely because there are always questions, like this:

-I got my new AVR today, things certainly have changed since '93!

-I've hooked everything up, ran the automated speaker set up, and now have some version of surround (with my 2 fronts and 2 rears)

-One thing I haven't gotten is sound coming from my TV and I'm not sure why. My set up is as follows:

1. Oppo 981 to AVR via HDMI 2
2. Samsung 1500BR to AVR via HDMI 1
3. AVR--via HDMI out--to TV's HDMI in

I still have to mess around with the labeling, so that my BR should read hdmi1 onscreen (it still reads hdmi2, as that is what "in" I used on the TV before getting my new AVR). Regardless of what it's called, it works just fine.

My MAIN question right now is why the TV sound is NOT available through my 4 f/r speakers? Is it a a) cable issue or b) set up issue with my new AVR?

thanks to all!

Don't know if I missed something here. But it would help if we knew what model/make your AVR is, as different AVRs have varying set ups and I'm sure somebody on this site knows what features yours has and may even own the same one?

cnh

[blurayhooray]

thanks, apphd. I should've been clearer:

I'm getting sound from both my components (BR, DVD/cd) and from the AVR's tuner.

Where I'm not getting sound from my AVR is when I simply watch TV (unless I use the TV's own speakers, of course).

Could this be an AVR set up issue? or, that my cables are not connected correctly? or, that I still need one more audio cable?

In other words, I have 3 hdmi cables in place, and the only cable connecting the AVR to the TV is hdmi (out from AVR and in to TV).

[blurayhooray]

thanks cnh. I just got a new Yamaha RX-V465. Lots to still set up and its got tons of options (at least compared to my old Sony).

[cnh]

I'm not that familiar with newer model Yamahas. Does that model pass audio through it HDMIs...the manual should tell you if it does. If not then you'll need to pass a digital cable from your Digi-box or cable set top box, probably to one of the toslink digital ins on the Yamaha and run the HDMI for the HDTV direct to the TV and not to the receiver. You would still run an HDMI out to the second HDMI on your TV for your other equipment.

For a Blu-ray player you might have to connect both the HDMI and a digital audio cable to your receiver then tell the blu-ray to output 5.1 from its digital audio out, again that's if the Yamaha HDMIs do not pass AUDIO. And I don't know without checking their site. Which I may do if I have time later..

cnh

[blurayhooray]

thanks, cnh.

further clarification: I don't have cable (rely on an antenna)

the V465 is advertised as having "pass through"

-if so, would a simple hdmi going out from AVR to the TV suffice for audio?

-it might also be a set up issue: the default setting for the Yamaha AVR is to assign the TV "avr#1" (BR is assigned "hdmi#1," etc.) I messed around and changed the TV setting to read hdmi#3, but that didn't help--I assume that would pertain to hdmi #3 IN and not for hdmi OUT (the AVR's hdmi in #2 is taken up by my dvd/cd player).

are there settings on a AVR set up to designate an hdmi "out"--as that is the only thing that's connecting the AVR to the TV (the component hdmi's are going directly to the AVR).

thanks again

[apphd]

I think I got it now. What kind of audio OUT does the TV have? If I followed everything correctly the only connection from AVR to TV right now is an OUT from the AVR to the TV's IN. If you are using the TV tuner then you need to output the audio from the TV to an input on the AVR.

[blurayhooray]

yes, apphd. I was kind of long winded (HT speaking) to get my point across.

I don't have anything audio going OUT from TV tuner to AVR. I thought maybe the hdmi that's going IN from the AVR would address that.

My TV audio OUTS are: analog and optical. I'll have to revive my old rca cables from the Sony:) for audio, until I get an optical cable.

Just to be clear: I was hoping to go ALL hdmi with my new AVR. But I see for TV tuner audio that's not possible, unless the TV had an hdmi OUT. Is that right?

thanks for your help, again. There's no getting away from this forum.

[apphd]

yes, apphd. I was kind of long winded (HT speaking) to get my point across.

I don't have anything audio going OUT from TV tuner to AVR. I thought maybe the hdmi that's going IN from the AVR would address that.

My TV audio OUTS are: analog and optical. I'll have to revive my old rca cables from the Sony:) for audio, until I get an optical cable.

Just to be clear: I was hoping to go ALL hdmi with my new AVR. But I see for TV tuner audio that's not possible, unless the TV had an hdmi OUT. Is that right?

thanks for your help, again. There's no getting away from this forum.

Yes, that's correct. HDMI is pretty cool, but out is still out and in is still in;)

[blurayhooray]

thanks apphd. that would make sense.

I must say i'm really enjoying the new sound coming from my speakers, thanks in large part to my new yamaha 465. Of course, with so many new AVR features I'm still fiddling with many of the options.

I have one quick impression and (hopefully quick) 2 questions. One thing I'm still playing around with are the sound/speaker settings on the BR and the DVD/CD player, which relate to what kind of AVR one has. For example, the samsung 1500 BR has 3 audio options (pcm, audio bitstream, and audiophile), the last one for AVRs that convert HD audio. How important is it to fine tune the audio settings on each of the components? Or would the AVR just take over and fine tune the optimal settings for each hdmi in?

Second, I thought the PQ of one of my BD (The Aviator) actually looked sharper before using the new AVR, when I had the hdmi feed directly to the TV.

Are there advantages to going that way, especially with my current set up of 2 front/2 surround speakers only--in other words, only a partial 5.1 setup. And what of the disadvantages of hooking up the BR and TV via hdmi, and BR and TV to the AVR with separate optical audio cables? I know it adds cables, but I could live with that.

thanks!

[apphd]

blu, here is a link that may help with some of your questions, scroll down to see the source hook up, but short answer I say use bitstream on source players.
Configuring Your HT (http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/connecting-your-system/basic-audio-video-set-up-guide)

As far as the PQ, that is an often heard complaint on many of the lower priced AVRs. Sometimes it might just be with certain displays, but in all reality the 465 should not be doing anything to your vid. signal. You might have a bad HDMI cable but if they check good I would go direct to the display if that gives you the best PQ. Only problem I could see if you were running a 7.1 set up you would not be able to get 7.1 soundtracks out of an optical cable you need the added bandwidth of HDMI.

[blurayhooray]

thanks apphd and everyone else for your replies above. Since getting the new AVR, coupled with the Polk speakers, I'm really enjoying the world of HT!