Taking the bi-wire plunge

[bignorm]

Well after all I have read on the topic...I have decided to bi-wire
my RTi70's..
currently I am using Home Depot 12 gage wire and to bi-wire I am going to use 14 gage for the tweets and then the 12 gage for
the mids/bass...My question is....do I have to purchase some special bi-wired cable or can I just use the cables mentioned above.....

Thanks all!!!!! ;)

[RuSsMaN]

You can do either, buy a pre-made biwire cable, buy a four-conductor cable, or use what you have.

[danger boy]

this is such a hot topic.. but like Russ said. you can use the wires you have and get the same results. Some people CAN hear a difference.. while other people notice little gain. I think since it's such an easy thing to do.. everyone interested should give it a try.

[Tour2ma]

bignorm,
Try the guages both ways, i.e., heavier to lows and then swap it to highs. Kind of got into that late in thread a while back before it died and went to thread heaven.
Counterintuitive at first whiff, but there is a thread of logic if you squint real hard.
If I stumble across the old thread, I'll post it.

[TonyPTX]

Would it matter if I were insane and ran 12 Gauge Monster Ref. Series wire to both the Highs and Lows on the RTi70? And for that matter the CSi40?

[Dr. Spec]

It won't matter at all. Just tough to fit both leads into one output at the amp. I use 14/14 and it just fits into one banana plug and it works very clean and neat.

[Tour2ma]

Originally posted by TonyPTX
Would it matter if I were insane... ? Yes, because you live too close to Texas... ;)

(Took the Liberty since Doc answered the real question...)

Doc, think you said you use MC bananas. Are they compression type? Have a Model #?

[Dr. Spec]

Originally posted by Tour2ma
Yes, because you live too close to Texas... ;)

(Took the Liberty since Doc answered the real question...)

Doc, think you said you use MC bananas. Are they compression type? Have a Model #?

http://www.monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=1272

[goingganzo]

i pre wired for bi amp/wire on my mains and center. reason i have not done yet is i dont have any more bana plugs. also would i run 2 wires all the way to the recever or 1 from recever to wall plate behind recever

[Frank Z]

Originally posted by TonyPTX
Would it matter if I were insane

Well of course it matters...crazy people are always hearing voices in their heads!!

[danger boy]

i tried the 12 guage wires.. and they were to big to to fit some of my components. so 14 guage is a good size for me.. fits all the binding posts. and i'm happy again.

[Soccerplyr]

I made mine with the monster mc 500 ( I think that's right, the thickest they have at CC) and found that it woludn't fit in the back of my receiver when I combine the 2 pieces together. Inorder to make it fit without cutting 1/2 the copper out I bought the Quick lock bananas and the Quick LOck flex tips. This allows me to connect both to the same speaker input on the back- the banana in the hole and the flex tip under the binding post.

[BeginnersLuck]

I'm not sure why everyone is so interested in running so many wires to their speakers. Why waste time on bi-wireing with 2 pair of 14 gauge when you could just go out and buy one 12 gauge wire and be done with it. The price ends up working out to be the same anyway. If you want to run bi-wire 12 gauge...scrap it and go buy single runs of 10 gauge. Why waste the time and effort! One 10 gauge wire sounds just as good as a bi-wired pair of 12 gauge wires. Am I missing something?

[HBombToo]

OH NO HER WE GO!!!:rolleyes:

:lol:

HBomb

but I can't fault you at all....

[TroyD]

Beginnersluck,

Do a search on some of the biwiring threads. The fundamental premise has nil to do with the guage of the wire but more to do with how power is fed to the speaker via the crossover.

HBomb,

He just doesn't know, therefore it's no big deal. It's the folks that know better that you drop the hammer on. ;)

BDT

[Tour2ma]

Aw Troy... you spoil all the fun... and here I was planning this cookout with HBomb on the flaming newbie and now I just feel ashamed... :(

BL,
Welcome to the Club. You dove right into the deep end of the pool here. I kinda like that... Only thing deeper is esoteric wire vs. lamp cord and the whole gambit in between. Plenty o' threads on that, too.

Troy's nailed the basic goal of bi-wire, but do a little searching as Troy suggests. It gets even deeper, e.g., what gauge of wire to run to what drivers.

Regardless of all the opinions on this topic and the other "debates" in the Club, always remember it's all in the ears. So what sounds good to you is what matters...

Now I gotta go figure out what to do with all these hot dogs I bought... :D

[BeginnersLuck]

I would tend to think that unless the speaker company is using extremly poor quality crossover designs (very unlikely)...then you are just better off using a larger gauge wire than using two smaller gauge wires to accomplish the same thing.

Another thing to note is that if you wire the speaker in the following config, then it is identical to bi-wireing.

Red1 terminal gets the + feed from the speaker cable,
Red2 gets a jumper wire from Red1.
Black2 terminal gets the - feed from the speaker cable,
Black1 gets a jumper wire from Black2.

Unless you are using active filtering to split the high and low freq's...the built in crossover is being used...so once again, I don't see the point?

TroyD-

What is it that you refer to that I don't know?

[Dr. Spec]

Originally posted by BeginnersLuck
Another thing to note is that if you wire the speaker in the following config, then it is identical to bi-wireing.

so once again, I don't see the point?

TroyD-

What is it that you refer to that I don't know?

In my best Yoda voice: "presumptuous, you are".

http://www.vandersteen.com/pages/Answr7.htm

Read and learn, oh newbie-wan.

Doc

[F1nut]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, concludes today's lesson on the benefits of bi-wiring. Tomorrow we'll discuss tri-wiring.

[Tour2ma]

Thanks for the ref Doc. Best attempt at an explanation I've read, but i still don't get it. They say:

"The benefits of bi-wiring are most obvious in the midrange and treble. The low-current signal to the midrange and tweeter drivers does not have to travel on the same wire as the high-current woofer signal. The field fluctuations and signal regeneration of the high-current low-frequencies are prevented from distorting or masking the low-current high-frequencies. The back EMF (Electro-Mechanical Force) from the large woofer cannot affect the small-signal upper frequencies since they do not share the same wires."

I can't get it out of my head that the full music signal is going through both wire runs to the speaker, and the un-used signal info is being returned to the amp. How is this signal selectivity the write up claims achieved? It can't be via the amp's external feedback loop capabilities since the individual bits that are unused are "mixed" at their common termination at the amp's neg terminal.

[BeginnersLuck]

Dr. Spec-

You bring up a good point...however this is the polk forums and from the looks of things most people are using polk speakers. The crossover in the vandersteens that are talked about in the article are specifically designed to function the way described. Also note that most of the reason that everyone claims to hear an improvement in bi-wire applications is because they are eliminating the crappy brass connectors that are supplied from the manufacturer. I would argue that replacing the brass jumbers with the same wire used for the speaker will make up this "noticable diference" that people claim to notice. Plus it is a much cheaper alternative to add an extra 6 inches of jumper cable. Also note that once the wires are touched at the amp end, you are activating the polk internal crossover and are essentially stuck in the same boat. However, since the brass jumpers were eliminated...the sound seemed to improve. I would argue that the sonic differences noted in the article are just as noticable by replacing the brass jumpers...hence no need to bi-wire!

Bi-amping on the other hand is a different monster altogether!

It's funny how people in the audio world assume that reviewer's and tester's ears are better than others...and their claims are more important than our own. Sometimes the only difference is in what we want to believe and not what we actually hear.

I guess the bottom line is that I would argue that a 10 gauge wire with replaced brass jumpers would sound equally as good as two equal quality 10 gauge wires in a bi-wire setup.

Theroetically, once the wires touch...either at the receiver end or the speaker end...the polk internal crossover is activated and we are back to square one.

Thanks for the link, it was an interesting read!

[Tour2ma]

Doc, or anybody, I'd still like an answer to what I posed a couple posts above.

BL,
Since you (re)opened this can of worms why do you say bi-amping is all that different? More power can be "cleaner" I'll agree, but do you think bi-amping is superior to just a more powerful amp?

I still say I can't see any signal reality at this point other than both amps reproducing the full signal to all four speaker runs.... But I am willing to learn... :)

BTW BL, WTH is “TWFTPQ”???

[BeginnersLuck]

Tour2ma-

I do not think that bi amping is superior to one powerful amp.
I would argue that one powerful amp is better than two less powerful amps. However, from an upgrade...it is more economical to add an identical amp than to throw away the amp and buy a more powerful one. With that being said...I will argue a more power amp (400W) is better than two (200W) amps of equal quality!

For the same reason I would argue that a 10 gauge wire (eliminating the brass connectors) is better than two 12 gauge wires of equal quality. However, just like with bi-amping...from an upgrade standpoint it is much cheater to add an extra set of 12 gauge wire than to scrap it and run one 10 gauge wire...

TWFTPQ- senior quote from high school that has dual meaning...That Was Fun, Time Passed Quickly...it is also a quote from the movie "The Rock"..."losers try their best...The Winners **** The Prom Queen"

Later!

[Dr. Spec]

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/biwire/Page1.html

Here's another take, for you electrical theory eggheads. Their take is it CAN theoretically make a SLIGHT difference in sound, but the difference will be subtle at best and inaudible most of the time.

If you can wade through this stuff and still see straight at the end, you're a better man than I.

[HBombToo]

How is it that Sid missed this thread? He must be sleeping or hopefully so confused he want to read and learn. ;)

Ok then... my 2c for what its worth. 2 amps are better than 1 and bi-wire is better than not. How we go about doing it is a matter of taste and bank. Me... I'm the guy that goes to Rat Shack and buys his 12 guage speaker wire and compression fit Bannana plugs. I don't buy into the marketing hype plus I receive a 15% discount @ the Shack because of my employment with an affiliate of Sprint PCS.

For me I think its KARAZY spending on wire when I could have a new piece of gear but then again thats MY preference.

HBomb

[BeginnersLuck]

Come on you guys, really think about it...put aside the paper work and math for a minute and use so common sence. In a bi-wire setup, the wires eventually touch (at the receiver end like this {amp<speaker}, or at the speaker end like this {amp>speaker}). Once the wires touch, you are in essence activating the speakers internal crossover. Unless you put in some type of filter to seperate the high and low freqs...then there cannot possibly be any bennefit other than you are 1)doubling the gauge, and 2) removing the brass plugs.

A simple test to this theory would be to take your current bi-wire setup and replace it with one cable of equivalent gauge. Remember to replace the brass connectors with the current speaker wire. If you can notice a difference then try asking someone else who is neutral on the matter or could care less. See if they can notice a difference. Chances are they won't, becasue there should not be one.

Happy tweaking!

[BeginnersLuck]

Dr. Spec-

Awesome site:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...wire/Page1.html

This was a very good site. So maybe there is hope...but is it audible...mmmm...who can really tell. The millions of different calbles and combinations of amps....possible to tell. Can the average person tell...nah probably not! But for those who can, more power to you!

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by BeginnersLuck
Once the wires touch, you are in essence activating the speakers internal crossover. Unless you put in some type of filter to seperate the high and low freqs...

What does activate the speakers internal crossover imply?

From my take there is a high pass and low pass passive RLC network that is either tied in parallel or seperated into 2 circuits when the external strap is removed. No I'm not an advocate of 2000 dollar cables but the common sense in bi-wireing is there! Its just my preference that I bi-amp so there you have it...

Furthermore, what are you talking about when you say add another filter to seperate the frequencies??? That is what the crossover in the speakers do...

HBomb

[TonyPTX]

Originally posted by HBombToo


What does activate the speakers internal crossover imply?



What I believe BL is referring to here is the simple fact that once you connect the ends of the speaker wire at the amp, you in essences have a "short" between your highs and your lows, thus, the HP x-over filter on the tweeter will be activated because it "sees" the signal from the lows because of the "short."

HOWEVER, what is being missed here in the whole concept of this thread is the fact that the low frequencies are what draw HIGHER current. The highs don't have nearly the current draw because the load that the circuit sees is much smaller. The link between the two is the fact any wire subject to a current will form a magnetic field around it (electro magnet). The higher the current, the bigger the magnetic field. This coupled with fact of the existance of inductors in a X-OVER network results in what's known as Back EMF (electro motive force). If the signal for the highs is weaker (less current) than the lows, this back EMF could potential prevent the full signal strength from reaching the speaker and as a result the mid-bass and highs sound "thin". By seperating the signal, you are in essence reducing the current in the high frequency network resulting is a smaller back EMF and more of the high's signal getting to the speakers.

I'm not a EE, but this is the way I see it and I'm sticking to my guns.

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by TonyPTX


What I believe BL is referring to here is the simple fact that once you connect the ends of the speaker wire at the amp, you in essences have a "short" between your highs and your lows, thus, the HP x-over filter on the tweeter will be activated because it "sees" the signal from the lows because of the "short."



Nope! Don't agree. No short at all... just simply two series RLC circuits is parallel with the straps and a high pass and low pass seperated without.

You can change the transfer function much easier adding higher or lower capacitive lines to the high pass circuit, in effect, changeing what you hear. Thats why I disagree with increasing the guage because at 12 guage you are at the point of diminishing returns regarding line loss. "Wire helps you tweek the reactance." I'll some day have say LSI's over RTi's and it will be worth the game. Right now I'll spend money elsewhere.

HBomb

[gidrah]

bignorm: What you're considering should be a big improvement. Just make sure the runs are the same length. If you have a spare speaker B connect it here and run your amp/receiver A+B. More contact area and such.

I'm too schnockered to post anything else. I'll be back.

[Dr. Spec]

Tell ya what guys. Does anyone care to run an FR sweep before and after bi-wiring and plot the results for all to see?

At one time I had a website bookmarked that showed the difference in FR before and after. It amounted to a few dB across the 3-8 kHz range, if I recall.

If someone wants to hunt for a full range FR download, I'll volunteer to burn the CD and do the sweep and post the before/after results because I've got a pro-grade B&K SPL meter and a tri-pod.

1/12 octave resolution or better should do it.

Doc

[mantis]

Here's my advice on bi wiring.......try it.hear it,feel about it ,then report back.

I dig all the tecnical,and the link,it was a good read.But hearing I feel makes more of a difference then knowing.After you hear or not hear a difference,then Knowing why or why not,I believe is good.Wire........does it or doesn't it?What a question to answer.
For a electrical stand point,from what we hear stand point.

Bi amping ....I'll leave that one alone as I little experience with that.

[bignorm]

Geezz
this has a life of its own....
Well everyone the bi-wire is complete..nothing fancy
I used 14 gauge for the mids and 16 gauge A/R for the tweets
and I must admit I can definitely hear a difference...more dramatic soundstage and better highs...HOWEVER, when I took the metal straps off that connect the posts they were very loose..
some things to consider:

If you dont bi-wire then make sure that those straps are secure on the binding posts.

If you dont want to bi-wire then you should at least use some decent speaker wire and jump the posts and get rid of those straps....

[fireshoes]

I'm going to have to side with mantis on this. I don't think an SPL sweep tells the whole story. It might be a little less subjective than just listening, but I doubt the SPL meter will reflect better imaging.

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
Tell ya what guys. Does anyone care to run an FR sweep before and after bi-wiring and plot the results for all to see?

At one time I had a website bookmarked that showed the difference in FR before and after. It amounted to a few dB across the 3-8 kHz range, if I recall.

If someone wants to hunt for a full range FR download, I'll volunteer to burn the CD and do the sweep and post the before/after results because I've got a pro-grade B&K SPL meter and a tri-pod.

1/12 octave resolution or better should do it.

Doc

I wanted to do that anyway Doc... Lets team up after I get my subs together.

HBomb

[Dr. Spec]

Good point on the imaging, but it would at least lend some credence to the theory that bi-wiring sounds different if we could see a difference in the FR in the mid's and the highs.

If the FR's are identical, then the theory would be a little tougher to sell, that's all.

Again - I agree that soundstage and imaging and inner detail probably have more to do with the actual driver design than a measureable difference in FR.

Still - it can't hurt to TRY. Somebody find me a full range FR download on the web and I'll do the dirty work and post the results. At worst, it will eliminate one variable from the discussion.

Doc

[BeginnersLuck]

Another thing to take into consideration is the length of the wire. Unless youy are running extremely long calbe runs...the difference should not be noticable!

I guess the bottom line is that everyone is correct as long as they are happy with how it sounds!

I used to have a full range FR sweep on cd...let me see if I can did it up.

[Dr. Spec]

Originally posted by HBombToo


I wanted to do that anyway Doc... Lets team up after I get my subs together.

HBomb

What's the delivery date, Henry? Tomorrow (rubbing palms together)?

See my updated list over in the Music and Movies category for good bass DVDs.

K-19: The Widowmaker - holy Moses!

Doc

[HBombToo]

Should be today but we had some pretty bad weather last night. Snow with freezing rain has made a mess! UPS out here is actually better than Fed Ex and with all the stuff my wife buys I think her and the UPS guy have something going on... ;)

Hope for the best!

HBomb

[Dr. Spec]

So who's home waiting for the big "brown note" truck?

I smell a "sick day" coming on! Are you all set up and ready to go with spaces and wiring runs already cleared?

I tipped my UPS guy $10 to bring my sub right through the back door and into the HT room so I wouldn't have to cart it down a flight of stairs with a bad back.

Considering your guy has to deliver two 60 pound subs and a 40 pound amp, you should throw him a tip too!

[HBombToo]

The wife is home and we have taken care of the guy in the big brown truck over Christmas. He's a cool guy. I'll never forget the day my Outlaw Amp showed up and I helped him carry it. He said what the hell you have in here? my response was it is an audio amplifier and his response was what the hell do you need that for the sound from the TV is good enough!

Ouch!!! I wonder what he'll say today?

HBomb

[Dr. Spec]

I forgot you had that Outlaw - she's a beauty. You should post your rig basics at the bottom. Not too long or you will incur the long arm of the law. Are you running an RT set-up or LSi?

[BeginnersLuck]

Hey HBombToo-

What type of Outlaw gear are you running?
I have the 1050 and 3 of the new M-200's...
Do you have the 950...if so, how do you like it?

[HBombToo]

I bought the Outlaw 770 Amp. All I can say is its a beast!

HBomb

[TroyD]

Just my take on it, science aside, I'm a bit of a skeptic on biwiring. If you are biwiring off a midfi receiver, I doubt it makes much of a difference, MO. I think you'd be just as well off just replacing the jumper like Russ and Doc have described.

I've found biwiring off a power amp or biamping makes a positive difference.

BDT

[HBombToo]

Hows this signature?

[Dr. Spec]

Originally posted by TroyD
I think you'd be just as well off just replacing the jumper like Russ and Doc have described.BDT

Speaking of, I have developed an even cleaner way of doing the jumper if you are using banana plugs for terminations.

Just insert both the amp wire and the jumper wire into the same banana plug (++ and --). This allows the banana plug to seat all the way down instead of bottoming out on the jumper wire that would otherwise be inside the post hole taking up space.

The banana plugs now seats much firmer into the top posts and I feel like I am getting a more solid connection.

For the bottom posts that will be seeing only the jumper cable wire, you can use the posts holes or another set of banana plugs - your choice.

If I lost anyone, I can shoot off another pic.

Oh, and Henry - like the new sig!

Doc

[TonyPTX]

Doc, that's one way to do it, the other way would be to use the Monster Dual Banana plugs. Plug these into the back of your speaker, run banana's into the thumbscrew socket on the back of each unit and run some 12 gauge or bigger wire as a jumper. Tin the end, jam it into the hole and tighten the set screw. You can put banana's on the other end of the 12 gauge wire and plug those into the upper terminals. (I only suggested 12 gauge wire because it's the only size that fits decently into the fairly large hole of the dual banana unit.)

You can also use these guys if you want to bi-wire your speaks with the heavy stuff (12+ gauge) and still be able to fit the connector to the back of your reciever and keep it clean.

[Mike Reeter]

HBombToo,Being a fellow Missourian and a U.P.S. Delivery Driver for the past 25 years,I can tell you that we make a lot of friends in the course of a workday.I have people that I deliver pkgs. to EVERY DAY...A lot of good people out there,and I don't mind in the least to do the" little extra " for any of them...By the way,don't worry about your U.P.S. guy and the little lady,he doesn't have the time anyway!!!

[Dr. Spec]

Tony - I love those - didn't know they made 'em. Thanks bro.

[mantis]

TroyD,
Just my take on it, science aside, I'm a bit of a skeptic on biwiring. If you are biwiring off a midfi receiver, I doubt it makes much of a difference, MO. I think you'd be just as well off just replacing the jumper like Russ and Doc have described.
You doubt it makes much of a difference.OK,but have you tried it yourself?Thats just the thing about being a skeptic,thinking and doing I believe are 2 different things bud.Do you own any bi wirable speakers you could do the listening test yourself??Shit dude you own the B&W 602s2 right???There bi wireable.Take that Denon you own and give it a run.I'd like to read what you heard.
Replacing the jumpers is a step in the right direction,and it does sound better wired that way.Speaker companies should just use speaker wire there,Mirage does this to name one company, on the OM series.They use a nice 14 guage terminated spade jumper wires.Very classy and a nice touch to a positive line......if your into Mirage.

As you know,I have bi wired on Mid fi receivers(thousand dollar range )and I heard a big big difference.Amazing what a simple wire upgrade can do for your system.

I own the Monster M1.4s bi wires and I'm getting them out as I feel I need to upgrade them due to my upgrade to B&K.I'm searching wire high and low.I have found cables that sound really good, but I want to experience alot of other brands in MY system before I lock into anyone.

Troy ,hope you do the test and report back,like I said,I would love to read what you heard.......................untill then.:cool:

[TonyPTX]

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
Tony - I love those - didn't know they made 'em. Thanks bro.

NP, glad I can help. Least I could do to return the amount of info I've tapped from you.

You should be able to pick the Monster Dual Banana's at a local BestBuy or Circuit City for about $16 a pair.

If you're cost conscience (which I know you're not), or can't get the Monsters directly from a local shop, you can try the RadioShack Equivalent (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F005%5F003%5F003%5F000&product%5Fid=278%2D308). Build quality is equal and you would be hard pressed to pick out the difference in a blindfold test. RadioShack will charge you about $6.00 each for a savings of about $2.00/unit.

[TroyD]

Originally posted by mantis
TroyD,

You doubt it makes much of a difference.OK,but have you tried it yourself?Thats just the thing about being a skeptic,thinking and doing I believe are 2 different things bud.Do you own any bi wirable speakers you could do the listening test yourself??Shit dude you own the B&W 602s2 right???There bi wireable.Take that Denon you own and give it a run.I'd like to read what you heard.
Replacing the jumpers is a step in the right direction,and it does sound better wired that way.Speaker companies should just use speaker wire there,Mirage does this to name one company, on the OM series.They use a nice 14 guage terminated spade jumper wires.Very classy and a nice touch to a positive line......if your into Mirage.

As you know,I have bi wired on Mid fi receivers(thousand dollar range )and I heard a big big difference.Amazing what a simple wire upgrade can do for your system.

I own the Monster M1.4s bi wires and I'm getting them out as I feel I need to upgrade them due to my upgrade to B&K.I'm searching wire high and low.I have found cables that sound really good, but I want to experience alot of other brands in MY system before I lock into anyone.

Troy ,hope you do the test and report back,like I said,I would love to read what you heard.......................untill then.:cool:

Yes Dan, I have. I've tried it with the CS400i run off the Denon receiver. I percieved no difference than with my wire jumpers. I don't know about the biwire vs. stock jumper as I toss the sumbitch the day I bought the speaker. Biamping from a power amp, different story, big difference. I attribute that to the loads of good power. I've not tried bridging the amp and biwiring of amp in mono so I couldn't tell you the differences there.

As far as the Beemers go, I've tried them biwired off the Denon. Again, off the Denon, no difference that i could percieve over the wire jumpers. I have only run them with the biwire cables in with a power amp, so I can't speak intelligently if it make a difference.

So, yes, believe it or not (and there are some who probably won't believe it) I do listen to some things before running my pie hole. Some things I can form a semi-intelligent opinion on. And in the case, with a midfi receiver (which was my original point), yes, I think that the differences in biwiring are not a gimmie, I don't think it hurts but I think the differences are subtle, but that's MY opinion.

Troy

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by Mike Reeter
HBombToo,Being a fellow Missourian and a U.P.S. Delivery Driver for the past 25 years,I can tell you that we make a lot of friends in the course of a workday.I have people that I deliver pkgs. to EVERY DAY...A lot of good people out there,and I don't mind in the least to do the" little extra " for any of them...By the way,don't worry about your U.P.S. guy and the little lady,he doesn't have the time anyway!!!

NO WAY!!! It is great to bump into 1 of you guys in here! UPS does a great job especially in Central MO where the roads are not marked very well... Our UPS guy is cool and if you knew me you would realize I was just funing around!

Great job and even though I'm a Jr. Fan I always watch Rusty and sometimes drink his brand. ;)

HBomb

[Tour2ma]

Originally posted by TroyD
So, yes, believe it or not (and there are some who probably won't believe it) I do listen to some things before running my pie hole.
:lol: :lol: :lol: +.....
True or not, IT"S FUNNY.....

[Mike Reeter]

HBombToo,I knew you were BS'in about the U.P.S. man!!One of these days you'll have to visit N.W. Mo. and give me a hand with wiring my Audio System!!! I'm a DJ fan myself,but I drink a hell-of-lot of Rusty's Beer...Cheers

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by Mike Reeter
HBombToo,I knew you were BS'in about the U.P.S. man!!One of these days you'll have to visit N.W. Mo. and give me a hand with wiring my Audio System!!! I'm a DJ fan myself,but I drink a hell-of-lot of Rusty's Beer...Cheers

I have had intentions of spending some time up in St. Joe... My problem is corporate fire drills have prevented me from doing so.

If thats anywhere close to where you are??? I buy the first BEER!

Trust me when I say we all have much to learn and you have a wealth of knowledge right here! When I'm up that way it would be an honor to help in any way.

HBomb

[Mike Reeter]

HBomb,I'm on your way to St.Joe,in Chillicothe...no need to buy,I've got a well stocked fridge in the garage!!!

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by Mike Reeter
HBomb,I'm on your way to St.Joe,in Chillicothe...no need to buy,I've got a well stocked fridge in the garage!!!

We have the design for Rt36 from Cameron to Macon for SPCS service expansion. Budget is real tight this year but I'll difinetly be touring through Chillicothe when it happens not if.

I will make a point drop by.

HBomb

[mantis]

Well Troy,
I'm glad to hear it.It's nice when your speaking form what you heard.I can respect that.
Dan

[Tour2ma]

Kumbiya My Lord... Kumbiya... everybody join in...

Mantis and TroyD... peace in our time... just shows we can all get along...:D

Kumbiya My Lord... Kumbiya...

EDIT: Misspelled both y'all's names... guess I was just so excited by this development... :)

[TonyPTX]

Just read a really good article that includes both the advanatges and disadvantages to bi-wiring. See here (http://www.sonicdesign.se/biwire.html) for a copy of the article. I think there is some merit to the argument against bi-wiring.

[mantis]

Originally posted by Tour2ma
Kumbiya My Lord... Kumbiya... everybody join in...

Mantis and TroyD... peace in our time... just shows we can all get along...:D

Kumbiya My Lord... Kumbiya...

EDIT: Misspelled both y'all's names... guess I was just so excited by this development... :)

It can happen.I don't see any reason why not.