PDA

View Full Version : AC replacement equipment help please.



disneyjoe7
05-14-2009, 05:07 PM
Trane / American Standard or Carrier? Why or why not?


Need to have my 10 seer whole AC system 5 ton replaced due to a bad leaker. The inside coil is leaking bad and the system is 14 years old, so I can't see to replace just the inside coil over the whole system. Ok so some people like 13 seer because its easy to repair it (no electronics) vs. a 15 or 16 seer AC system which has a lot of electronics.


Need your help just is getting crazy. :rolleyes:

shawn474
05-14-2009, 05:21 PM
Get Bryant......we just got the evolution system installed last year and it is a wonderful unit. VERY high cere rating and quiet as can be.

Shawn

Serendipity
05-14-2009, 06:31 PM
Definitely NOT Carrier.

It's another wonderful product made by United Technologies.:rolleyes:

Serendipity
05-14-2009, 06:33 PM
That will break down in 3 years...

petrym
05-14-2009, 06:45 PM
We did a complete HVAC replacement in Jul 2001 - with Carrier AC and furnace units - and have had zero problems.

Serendipity
05-14-2009, 06:50 PM
We did a complete HVAC replacement in Jul 2001 - with Carrier AC and furnace units - and have had zero problems.

The old lady that lived next door from my parents' house had a Carrier unit. Let's just put it this way: she wasn't impressed.

obieone
05-14-2009, 07:09 PM
Stay AWAY from Trane/ American Standard. Trane is now acually owned by Ingersoll Rand. But, they WERE making GARBAGE until last year.
Also, they have PROPIETARY components. Specifically the Compressor, which is THE most expensive component.
Ditto for Carrier, now.
Get the highest seer rating you can afford, and pay attention to tax rebates/ incentives from the local utilit co.
Chances are, you'll probably get R-410 system. And make sure the system comes with the safeties like low & high head pressure switches. A leak is usually cheaper than a compressor.
Lennox is a good brand, and I believe 100% made here. The other brands are assembled to the south! And it shows.

One more thing. Stay away from ARS and Sears. HACKS!!!

disneyjoe7
05-14-2009, 07:22 PM
Stay away from Trane / American Standard....

Stay away from Carrier....


My head is hurting.....

obieone
05-14-2009, 07:34 PM
Carrier isn't bad. I can find fault with all of them, they all have their own little quirks that annoy me, but I repair them for a living, so....

disneyjoe7
05-14-2009, 07:47 PM
Ok still confused about what to do, but Seer 13 or Seer 15?

Serendipity
05-14-2009, 08:01 PM
I would go for the Trane over Carrier.

jimsvm
05-14-2009, 09:20 PM
bursting your bubble.bryant is made by carrier. evolution is the best on the market.if you need heat, have your dealer install a heat pump,with the IAQ honeywell t-stat.13seer ok
higher seer is better.the most imporant item when sizing is do not over size. longer run times = better dehumidification=better comfort.

petrym
05-14-2009, 09:36 PM
Preparation/installation is 98% of reliability. If the installer properly does a deep vacuum pull on the AC side before charging the refrigerant (to get *all* the water out), torques all connections to prevent leaks, and doesn't kink any copper, any system will last a very long time. The original HVAC setup in our house lasted 21 years before it required more maintenace than it was worth. That's a long (expected) time for non-industrial quality equipment.

nspindel
05-14-2009, 09:59 PM
I'm looking at upgrading my stuff as well. I installed Carrier 13 years ago, 2 units, and they're still running fine, I've had no problems with it. But looking to take advantage of the rebates and boost up my efficiency. Gotta lower the carbon footprint. We're looking at Carrier again - from what I understand, if you're looking to go Puron, Carrier is the name to beat.

disneyjoe7
05-14-2009, 10:08 PM
My air conditioning inside "A" coil is leaking really bad it has a least 2 leaks. I thinking it died early do to the fact if was removed to clean it, before I bought the house 6 years ago, other then that I can't see why it would be ok for any other 4 to 6 years. The cost of replacing the A coil vs. replacing in and out is why I'm doing it now, other then I'm going from 10 Seer to 13 or better Seer.

disneyjoe7
05-15-2009, 12:56 AM
I'm looking at upgrading my stuff as well. I installed Carrier 13 years ago, 2 units, and they're still running fine, I've had no problems with it. But looking to take advantage of the rebates and boost up my efficiency. Gotta lower the carbon footprint. We're looking at Carrier again - from what I understand, if you're looking to go Puron, Carrier is the name to beat.


Puron is R-410, it's just that Carrier named it Puron. The rebates are for Seer 15 which one AC guy stated full of electronics and could be a potential problems down the road. He pushing me to a Seer 13 which is cheaper and has less stuff to break. It's about a $800 difference to me after all rebates $1500 from Feds and $350 from Power company. Not sure if for +2 seer upgrade with more to go wrong is worth the $$.

tonyb
05-15-2009, 12:59 AM
Buy a fan,not like it gets hot or humid down there.:)

disneyjoe7
05-15-2009, 01:07 AM
I would jump in the pool if needed, but wife would kill me first if over heated. :(

Mike Reeter
05-15-2009, 07:34 AM
I'm looking at upgrading my stuff as well. I installed Carrier 13 years ago, 2 units, and they're still running fine, I've had no problems with it. But looking to take advantage of the rebates and boost up my efficiency. Gotta lower the carbon footprint. We're looking at Carrier again - from what I understand, if you're looking to go Puron, Carrier is the name to beat.

We also have 2 units...Bryant dual fuel systems...12 years old.

Going to also take advantage of tax credits and rebates and install a Geothermal system next week,weather permiting.

obieone
05-15-2009, 08:45 AM
DJ7: I'm not tryng to confuse you, but I need some basic info:

Do you have a gas furnace or heat-pump?

How many sq. ft. is the house?

How badly is this system leaking? Does someone come out once a week, once a month, to replenish the missing refrigerant?


And FYI, SEER has to do more with the surface area of coils than it does to do with elecronics.
My house was built in 2005 and has a 12 SEER system. It's a 2 ton system with a 4 ton condensor coil. The larger surface of the outside coil means the compressor has to do less work.
I'd recommend getting 2nd & 3rd opinions. Preferably from co.'s that sell different brands.

timlitton
05-15-2009, 08:47 AM
Going to also take advantage of tax credits and rebates and install a Geothermal system next week,weather permiting.


Smart man. Geothermal is the way to go. It's one of the fastest growing segment of the HVAC market and is projected to grow 10%-20% every year.

The WaterFurnace Envision is the most efficient heating and cooling system on the planet... bar none.



It provides heating, cooling, and hot water generation all in one unit

It's 5x's more efficient in heating than the very best gas furnace (98 AFUE)

It's more than 2x's as efficient as the very best heat pump on the market (21 SEER/9.5 HSPF).

It saves between 40%-70% on heating & cooling bills

It reduces our dependance on foreign oil

It has no noisy outdoor equipment to clutter your yard

It requires less maintenance

The average system life is 24.4 years

It increases property value

It doesn't use any combustion so there's no chance of explosion or carbon monoxide build-up

It comes with a 30% (no limit) tax credit for installation.

The EPA and DOE have called geothermal "the most energy-efficient, environmentally clean, and cost-effective" way to heat and cool our buildings.

It's viable and currently in use in all 50 states and on every continent except Antarctica

Although it does cost more to install the outdoor piping system (the loop), the system is so energy efficient that payback averages less than 8 years

For more information, I've attached a great piece that explains it in better detail.

polktiger
05-15-2009, 09:15 AM
I have purchased Tranes at the office, happy with them. Had to replace due to copper being stolen, so we went with aluminum coils of the Trane.
Just installed Bryants at home, very happy with them. replaced a crap goodman unit, and a 24 year old Carrier.

For those saying don't get American Standard/Trane or Carrier/Bryant, what are you actually suggesting, Lennox??? Goodman???? Heil??? Payne??? there is not much left, and not much that is remotely desireable.

venomclan
05-15-2009, 09:19 AM
hvac-talk.com

Serendipity
05-15-2009, 10:49 AM
For those saying don't get American Standard/Trane or Carrier/Bryant, what are you actually suggesting, Lennox??? Goodman???? Heil??? Payne??? there is not much left, and not much that is remotely desireable.

I said don't get a Carrier but Trane is a good option. When I think of Trane, I think reliability.

disneyjoe7
05-15-2009, 11:03 AM
DJ7: I'm not tryng to confuse you, but I need some basic info:

Do you have a gas furnace or heat-pump?

How many sq. ft. is the house?

How badly is this system leaking? Does someone come out once a week, once a month, to replenish the missing refrigerant?


And FYI, SEER has to do more with the surface area of coils than it does to do with elecronics.
My house was built in 2005 and has a 12 SEER system. It's a 2 ton system with a 4 ton condensor coil. The larger surface of the outside coil means the compressor has to do less work.
I'd recommend getting 2nd & 3rd opinions. Preferably from co.'s that sell different brands.


It's a Heat Pump all electric. Not sure how bad the leak is, as far as Freon level vs. system performance. He didn't think it would work more then a month or so, I know it singed off in at least a couple areas.

petrym
05-15-2009, 04:08 PM
I said don't get a Carrier but Trane is a good option. When I think of Trane, I think reliability.
That's Trane's marketing talking, you heard it enough times to make it part of your unconscious thought process.

I'm sure most companies make good stuff; they'd have to in order to survive in today's world. I'd interview a few local installers and see what they have to say... then reject those that only push one brand way over the other.

disneyjoe7
05-15-2009, 04:39 PM
Well I went with an American Standard 5 ton 13 seer system. It seemed to be the best system I can buy for the $$, I should get it installed by June 5th.


Ok another can of worms....

Anyone heard anything about ICE22?

Serendipity
05-15-2009, 05:29 PM
That's Trane's marketing talking, you heard it enough times to make it part of your unconscious thought process.


Nah, it's not Trane's marketing at all.

It has more to do with Carrier and United Technologies (as a company), but I won't say on the forum. PM me if you want details.

mrbigbluelight
05-15-2009, 06:19 PM
All brands have their good points and bad points, and that can certainly be debated ( can easily develop into a full-blown cable debate ;) ).

BUT: You could get a "GOD" branded unit, delivered directly from the "GOD" warehouse by "GOD" Himself, and your project can still head south.
How ? Crap-ass installation.

Probably more units are ruined by freon mechanics during installation than anything else.

A large number of fly-by-nighters brag on how quickly they can install a unit
(condensor, evaporator, and blower). While that's all swell and terrific that they can be in and out in 4 hours, ...... WTF is the rush ?
Think of "Quick" as being another name for "Shortcuts", which is another name for "this oughta hold", which is another name for "We'll see you in 9 months on that service call".

I've been looking through YouTube for the past week or so for refrigeration/HVAC training videos (putting together a DVD for the "Nobody Showed Me" schmuck club here at work).
There's a LOT of refrigeration/HVAC videos that show some numbing nightmare installations, particularly in Arizona. I've been "KeepVid"ing them, so I don't have the links off hand, but they back up what I'm saying:

MAKE SURE YOUR CONTRACTOR/TECHNICIAN KNOWS YOU'RE ANAL ABOUT INSTALLATION !!!!

Good enough .... ain't.

mrbigbluelight
05-15-2009, 06:21 PM
I did save one link showing a Trane unit in New Orleans. Pretty cool.


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/m26zeSMn7WU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/m26zeSMn7WU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Make sure your installation tech knows that you want that kind of performance.

disneyjoe7
05-15-2009, 06:41 PM
A little background here. I like Trane systems, I see a lot of them and I never see anyone having a big problem with them. I'm getting this from a "Friend of a Friend" one of these "Friends" say he likes Carrier, but he ok with Trane the other "Friend" like Trane. Then the "Friend" who likes Trane likes simple systems nothing of electronics stuff, maybe he's seen some issues or he's "Old School"? Then other who like Carrier like electronic stuff also, since this was a "Friend of a Friend" thing I'm like WTF

Now believe this these people work with each other, one is the others boss but they work on what I'm not sure? Not sure if they work on same small systems or large commercial systems, I'm thinking large where I feel Carrier RULES IMHO :)

disneyjoe7
05-15-2009, 06:48 PM
I did save one link showing a Trane unit in New Orleans. Pretty cool.


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/m26zeSMn7WU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/m26zeSMn7WU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Make sure your installation tech knows that you want that kind of performance.


That's funny :)

petrym
05-15-2009, 10:58 PM
<snip> PM me if you want details.
appadv,
PM sent.
Michael

petrym
05-16-2009, 11:17 PM
PM sent.
appadv,
Thanks for the info, I appreciate your time and effort to share; point well taken now.
Michael