SR 6500: Tweeter Location & Axis Question

[rfairwea]

I will be putting in a set of SR6500s into my car (a '97 Porsche 911) with the intent of keeping things as close to stock appearance as possible while getting as good of sound as I can.

My head unit is a Becker Monza and my amp is a Helix HXA-400 MkII. My plan is to use the included Polk crossover and not 100% decided whether to bridge the amp (a bit concerned that the 2 x 200/300Watts RMS/max may be too much) or just use the amp in 4 channel mode (4 x 65/85 W RMS/max) and 2 of the channels unused since I'm not going to even bother hooking up a rear stage for now. Detailed specs on the amp at bottom of post.

The mid-woofer will be in the factory location which is at the front of the door down quite low. It's roughly at your knee as you sit in the car.


Question #1: Is there any best way to aim the mid woofer? Should it be aimed as close to the listener's ear as possible or off axis in some way?

I have some options with the tweeter. There is room to mount it within a couple of inches of the mid behind the factory grill or it can be mounted on the top of the door panel (approx chest high about 1 foot in front the driver & passenger's chest) using the surface mounts that come with the SR6500s.


Question #2: Would either of these two locations present a real advantage over the other?

Question #3: Should the tweeters be aimed at the listener's ear or off axis in some way?

I'll try both on / off phase when I wire things up but wanted to get some wisdom from others on how to mount things since that's a bit harder to change later.

Thanks much,

Rick

Technical specifications HXA 400 MK II
Cont. power rating at 4 Ohm per channel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 x 65/85 W RMS/max. power
Cont. power rating at 2 Ohm per channel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 x 100/150 Watts RMS/max. power
Cont. power rating bridged at 4 Ohm . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2x 200/300 Watts RMS/max. power
Frequency response . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 Hz - 20 kHz, +/- 0,2 dB
Total harmonic distortion (THD) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . < 0,009%
TIM distortion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . < 0,016%
Signal to noise ratio . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > 100 dB
Input impedance . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 kOhm
Input sensitivity . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 700 mV - 8 V
Fuse . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 x 25 Ampere
Dimensions (H x W xD) in mm . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31,5 x 200 x 336

[cadenceclipse]

all i can say at the momoent is (well, besides sounds like a damn nice frontstage) bi-amp(and 2/300 isn't 2 much but others here can help u out on this better than me) bi-amp

[MacLeod]

The mids would be better as far forward and as low as possible but if you are set on leaving them in the stock location then just keep them 90 degrees off axis. The SR mids have very good off axis response so you should be ok.

The tweeters work best mounted higher up to help keep the stage nice and high. As for aiming, try to aim them at the opposite side head rest.

[dirthog]

I would try the tweeters mounted coax and bi amped. I would also try to get them on axis as possible. Sure these speakers are great off axis but they are better on axis.

I have mine mounted coax in the doors with zero stage height issues. It will help ensure you don't have major comb filtering. If you try it and the stage height sucks then change the tweeter to another location.

I tried every location in my car for at least two months and having them mounted coax has provided me with the best results. Better focus, imaging, tonality basically it was all positive without giving up something else.

The best solution is to try everything out for yourself. Everyone's car is different and one setup might not work for another. Aim the mids at different angles to see what sounds best and move the tweeter around also.

What are the tuning capabilities of that deck?

[cadenceclipse]

i like macs 1st and 4th sentence and dirts 1st and 4th paragraph
don't have sr6500s but my eclipse components mounted in kickpanels also have zero stage height issues
yeah whats up w/ that deck?

[rfairwea]

Guys,

Thank you for the replies...very helpful.

As a starting point, I'm leaning towards mounting the mids in the factory location (essentially at bottom/front of the door) and will mount the tweeters at the top of the door using the angled mounts.

Wisdom seems to point towards bi-amping which seems to imply ditching the factory crossovers and going active...any suggestions on which crossover to purchase?

The head unit...I'll admit...is a bit of a compromise. It has virtually no tuning capabilities (just basic fade, balance, tone, loudness, etc...). I'm using it because it's virtually identical to the factory unit.

Thanks much,

Rick

[cadenceclipse]

active yes, ditch don't think so. mac and dirt prob know better than me but i think they'll say keep xovr for tweeters audiocontrol makes nice xovrs. crutchfield sells em now

[dirthog]

Bi-amp and active are similar but different.

Bi-amp, you keep the crossovers supplied with the SR's. Then run one amp channel to one mid connection on the crossover and the another channel to the tweeter, do this for both mid/tweeter set. So, one four channel amp will run one set of speakers. This allows you to adjust levels of both tweeters and mids separately. If your deck had time alignment you could also adjust this for each speaker. (To run bi-amped you need to remove one of the jumpers on the crossover)

Active, ditch the supplied crossovers that came with the SR's. Then directly connect the speakers to the amp in the same configuration as bi-amping, but you need an active capable deck or other device to set crossover points, level and TA(time alignment). This is a lot more flexible and at first it might be frustrating until everything starts to fall together. Right now you don't have the capability to run active.

[arun1963]

Surfed the net a bit and found:

OP's hu is a becker. Becker as a company was made famous by the oem radios it supplied to mercedes benz from the late fourties on. Around the mid 90's they diversified into navigation systems and that accounts for 90% of their biz today. The company is well known across the pond as one that integrates quality and technology into its products.

The Monza is Beckers attempt at getting back into the top end cd reciever mkt. UNfortunately it was designed with a navigation device mindset not an audiophile one. Since biz for the last 15 yrs has been mostly in navigation devices where technology and options are key. At a similar price of $600 a top end cdr would offer a wealth of sound control options. The monza offers technology options, 2 tuners, bluetooth, ipod connectivity, hands free for phone etc etc. But the most basic audio control as pointed out by the op. It puts out a 3v signal (it will be stout 3v signal...but still a 3v one), has 4 preouts and is 4x18 watts rms etc.

Both Mac and dan know more abt install, so wont go there.

All links to the h400 mk 2 took me to the helix a4 competiion model. If this is the amp its a killer. Apart from the impeccable birth sheet it allows for lp / bp / hp active xover from 12hz to 7kz. Bi amping sounds like a good idea. Great speakers and great amp with a decent signal. Should sound great. All that would be missing would be the eq and time alignment. This could be added thru a processor down the line.

[cadenceclipse]

wouldn't u still use/need supplied crossover for tweeter lowpass going active on capable HU and/or bi-amping also?

[arun1963]

Biamping would be done from the amp, connect the tweets to front channels and the mids to the rear. If his amp allows him to set lp/bp/hp for each channel then he has two options:

1. The sr xover splits the signal at 3.1khz. So using the passive xover, he can set the mid lp at around 40hz from his amp (since he's not using a sub, may as well get max bass from the mids. The sr mids anyways play down to 30hz). He would bp for mid at 3khz from the amp. Next he would set the lp for the tweet at 3khz. Only drawback here is that the xover point between mids and tweets is defined by the passive xover. According to Mac seperating the mids and tweets at 4khz gives good results. However this would be a good way to begin.

2. The second option is going fully active. OP would remove the passive xover and play around till he finds the best xover point between mids and tweets. Mids lp would be set as above.

Dan explained the above in his post.

[dirthog]

No, that's not active. You only need the crossover when you biamp and you don't lowpass a tweeter. Lowpass let's all frequencies that are lower than the set crossover frequency pass through.


wouldn't u still use/need supplied crossover for tweeter lowpass going active on capable HU and/or bi-amping also?

Active, you set the HPF for tweeters, LPF and HPF for the mids, LPF for the sub, the crossover slope, levels and time alignment(TA) from the HU or other device. Even though you can set levels with the HU, that is for fine tuning. The gain on your amp needs to be set correctly or you will blow the tweeters.

You have the ability to adjust each speaker separately. One tweeter could have the HPF set at 4khz and the other tweeter could be set at 5khz. They could have different slopes, TA, etc. Same for the left and right mid, the settings could be completely different for each speaker.

Biamp, the supplied crossover sets the HPF/slope for the tweeter and LPF/slope for the mids. Everything else can still be adjusted for each speaker if you have a capable Hu or other device.

Active is nice because you have more flexability. I have a higher crossover point and shallower slope on my driver side mid because they are more off axis than the passanger side. I did this to correct the beaming effect of higher frequencies.

[cadenceclipse]

word. yeah wasn't sure if tweeter (passive crossover(or any for that matter) had LPF(was thinking so b/c i hear few people biamping keep crossover but guess thats cause they have no capable HU, processor, or etc)
dirt u use dual filters(HU and amp)?
(your 2nd paragraph) guess u could include subsonic in there?
last question--how do u REALLY set gains(and crossover for that matter) besides by ear(which i've been trying for past 10 yrs)(think i'm almost there though-but probably not). guess w/ multimeter or somethin u can get gains exact? maybe clipping indicator has somethin 2 do w/ it..

[arun1963]

Active is nice because you have more flexability. I have a higher crossover point and shallower slope on my driver side mid because they are more off axis than the passanger side. I did this to correct the beaming effect of higher frequencies.


Info filed for use when active. Tks for sharing. :)

In my bi-amped setup, the near side mid which is off axis is louder but not as sweet as the far side mid. The far side mid which is more on axis is not as loud, but a lot sweeter, fuller and more balanced.

The loudness bit can be compensated by either eq or by lowering the gain of the near side mid from hu. I prefer to keep the gains level and do it from the eq. Balancing the sweetness is a bit of a struggle. Lowering the slope may help. Hang on give me 10 mts.........

I normally run the mids at 24db/oct in a cascading setup. Did a 5mts test with the near side mid to 18db and attenuated 200hz, 80hz and 50hz a bit. I feel the mids blend better now and there is better clarity. But the stage is down a bit. Will run with this and tweak a bit. Will let you know how it turns out.

Am not running active so cant set diff xover points for the tweets yet.

Good to see you back on cp dan. :)

[dirthog]

My amp crossovers are not used at all. Every setting is adjusted from my Hu, Pioneer 880 (Newer Version is 800). I cannot set a subsonic filter from my Hu, I don't have the need since I'm using a sealed box for the sub.

I set the gains with my ears, others use a DMM. I don't use a DMM because of lost output. Music is not recorded at the same level as test tones.

Set the time alignment first. I then set the gains for the mids and level match the tweeters. Next I set the crossover/slope and then eq last. Setting the mid level and TA are the easiest but the rest can take months.

When setting the mids, turn your Hu to 3/4 volume or if you know when it clips set it to that volume. So, if your Hu goes up to 100 set it to 75 and play music with heavier bass. Next go to your amp and turn up the gain until you start to hear distortion from the mids. Once you hear it, back off of the gain until it goes away. Your mid gain is now set.

Tweeter, start low and keep adding gain until it sounds correct. Might have to revisit this later.

If everything sounds ok you can start adjusting crossover points and slopes.

Then adjust eq.




word. yeah wasn't sure if tweeter (passive crossover(or any for that matter) had LPF(was thinking so b/c i hear few people biamping keep crossover but guess thats cause they have no capable HU, processor, or etc)
dirt u use dual filters(HU and amp)?
(your 2nd paragraph) guess u could include subsonic in there?
last question--how do u REALLY set gains(and crossover for that matter) besides by ear(which i've been trying for past 10 yrs)(think i'm almost there though-but probably not). guess w/ multimeter or somethin u can get gains exact? maybe clipping indicator has somethin 2 do w/ it..

[dirthog]

You could try the crossover on you amp to set the right mid LPF lower. Remeber at that point your amp and crossover will be working together. This might level out the difference in sweeter/fuller sound.

I would adjust the gains for the mids after doing so to level match.

Use the amp gains to set the levels first and then use the eq.



Info filed for use when active. Tks for sharing. :)

In my bi-amped setup, the near side mid which is off axis is louder but not as sweet as the far side mid. The far side mid which is more on axis is not as loud, but a lot sweeter, fuller and more balanced.

The loudness bit can be compensated by either eq or by lowering the gain of the near side mid from hu. I prefer to keep the gains level and do it from the eq. Balancing the sweetness is a bit of a struggle. Lowering the slope may help. Hang on give me 10 mts.........

I normally run the mids at 24db/oct in a cascading setup. Did a 5mts test with the near side mid to 18db and attenuated 200hz, 80hz and 50hz a bit. I feel the mids blend better now and there is better clarity. But the stage is down a bit. Will run with this and tweak a bit. Will let you know how it turns out.

Am not running active so cant set diff xover points for the tweets yet.

Good to see you back on cp dan. :)

[arun1963]

You could try the crossover on you amp to set the right mid LPF lower. Remeber at that point your amp and crossover will be working together. This might level out the difference in sweeter/fuller sound.

I would adjust the gains for the mids after doing so to level match.

Use the amp gains to set the levels first and then use the eq.

My polk 4ch amp does not have seperate gain control for l/r. Also my hu is the p80prs, which is the 880 version for the asian market. Everything is identical except I cant band pass my mids (hence can't go active) and slopes are first and second order only for mids and tweets. The sub has third order 18db slope. Company figured they could save a couple of bucks and the dumb asians wouldnt know. :)

12db is a shallow slope for mids. That is why I use the xover from the amp, so that I get an extra 12db. I set the xover from the hu at 63hz and at the amp a little higher than 63hz. My logic is - if the hu is cut off at 63hz on a 12db slope, the lowest freq the amp gets is prob around 45hz. Hence if I set the xover at the amp at say 75hz, again at a 12db slope, the speakers would see 60. I cut my sub off at 50hz from the hu at 18db hence the amp prob see's a low of 70hz. I then set the amp to say 40hz so that the sub gets 50hz at 30db slope. At least thats the logic...dunno if its correct

Oh I hope you remember, we have rhight hand drive here. So the right mid is the near one.

Last couple of days, I have been playing with the diff slope & xover settings. Tried keeping both mids at 63hz with the near side slope at 18db and far side at 24db. Also tried near side xover at 80hz on 18db and far side 63hz at 24db. Both had +ve's and -ve's. For now have settled for the former. It requried some tunning. I had to sacrifice a few inches in stage height but the coherence, fullness of sound is a big gain. I feel I have gained more than I have lost. ;)

[arun1963]

I think we highjacked the op's thread.

Just one clarification:


The mids would be better as far forward and as low as possible

That was Mac's comment. My stock location well forward (at the forward end) but about 6" below the window. So they are well forward but up high. Whats the diff between mids high up on the panel and those mounted at the feet?

[MacLeod]

Whats the diff between mids high up on the panel and those mounted at the feet?

Pathlength difference.

Measure the distance from the center of the speaker grill to the center of your head rest. Now measure the right side door. Note the difference. Now measure again but from a point as far down and forward on the door as you can. The difference between left and right will be less.

Ideally youre wanting your left and right speakers to be the same distance away from you. This gives you the best and most true stereo effect. This is almost impossible in a car since youre sitting off to one side - duh. So the closest you can get them the better off you are and the less time alignment youll have to use which helps a lot in fixing pathlength issues but not all of them as pathlengths dont just affect the timing of the sound but also the intensity/volume. Time alignment from a processor affects the time but not the volume.

[dirthog]

We have jacked it and I was thinking we should start another thread but it's too late.

You do have the capability to go active, I think.

Do you have one gain for all four channels or one for channels 1/2 and another for 3/4? If you have two then you run the mids off of 1/2 and for the tweeters use channels 3/4.

Did you use the switch on the side of the Hu to use network mode (active)? I would think you have the capability, but could be wrong.

Edit: I looked up your deck and it does have the capability to go active. If your amp has separated gains your good to go. Have fun being more frustrated than ever trying different settings.





My polk 4ch amp does not have seperate gain control for l/r. Also my hu is the p80prs, which is the 880 version for the asian market. Everything is identical except I cant band pass my mids (hence can't go active) and slopes are first and second order only for mids and tweets. The sub has third order 18db slope. Company figured they could save a couple of bucks and the dumb asians wouldnt know. :)

12db is a shallow slope for mids. That is why I use the xover from the amp, so that I get an extra 12db. I set the xover from the hu at 63hz and at the amp a little higher than 63hz. My logic is - if the hu is cut off at 63hz on a 12db slope, the lowest freq the amp gets is prob around 45hz. Hence if I set the xover at the amp at say 75hz, again at a 12db slope, the speakers would see 60. I cut my sub off at 50hz from the hu at 18db hence the amp prob see's a low of 70hz. I then set the amp to say 40hz so that the sub gets 50hz at 30db slope. At least thats the logic...dunno if its correct

Oh I hope you remember, we have rhight hand drive here. So the right mid is the near one.

Last couple of days, I have been playing with the diff slope & xover settings. Tried keeping both mids at 63hz with the near side slope at 18db and far side at 24db. Also tried near side xover at 80hz on 18db and far side 63hz at 24db. Both had +ve's and -ve's. For now have settled for the former. It requried some tunning. I had to sacrifice a few inches in stage height but the coherence, fullness of sound is a big gain. I feel I have gained more than I have lost. ;)

[arun1963]

We have jacked it and I was thinking we should start another thread but it's too late.

You do have the capability to go active, I think.

Do you have one gain for all four channels or one for channels 1/2 and another for 3/4? If you have two then you run the mids off of 1/2 and for the tweeters use channels 3/4.

Did you use the switch on the side of the Hu to use network mode (active)? I would think you have the capability, but could be wrong.

Edit: I looked up your deck and it does have the capability to go active. If your amp has separated gains your good to go. Have fun being more frustrated than ever trying different settings.


We can move over to the SQ thread....:)

1. Seperate gains for front and rears. Currently tweets connected to fronts and mids to rear ch of amp.

2. My p80rs does not have an active switch on the side. Funny thing, these sets have a demo mode right? In the demo mode it shows you how you can band pass your mids. But I cant do it on my set......:mad:

3. Inability to go active seems like a small issue right now. The hu was bought in the grey mkt (no bill / warranty) about 6 months ago. Pioneer India has not launched this model here, so I was forced to buy it in grey. For the last 4-5 days I am facing issues of the cd getting stuck inside the unit, from time to time there is a static kind of disturbance in the sound, the cd stops playing and I get error msg's 11, 12 and 17. Since the pioneer service centre will not service the unit, I'll have to take it to a normal repair shop and I dont trust these people. They may change 10 parts inside and I wouldnt know till the next prob occurs. I am told the lens need changing and the transport / eject assembly needs checking/ realigning.

4. For now I am going to get it repaired locally as I dont have an option. Ifthings dont work out I will have to dip into the $$$ I was saving for the sr set up and buy a new HU. In case I need to buy a new HU any ideas on which one? I love the pioneer unit but dropping another $400 on a unit w/o bill warranty is a no no. :confused:

5. DAMN DAMN DAMN I hate this SQ addiction. :rolleyes:

[dirthog]

You have to take the deck out of the harness in order to see the switch. It's a little black switch on the side of the deck chassis about half way back.

Sounds like you have some issues though. I would recommend a Pioneer 800 or Alpine with like abilities.

[arun1963]

Pathlength difference.

Measure the distance from the center of the speaker grill to the center of your head rest. Now measure the right side door. Note the difference. Now measure again but from a point as far down and forward on the door as you can. The difference between left and right will be less.

Ideally youre wanting your left and right speakers to be the same distance away from you. This gives you the best and most true stereo effect. This is almost impossible in a car since youre sitting off to one side - duh. So the closest you can get them the better off you are and the less time alignment youll have to use which helps a lot in fixing pathlength issues but not all of them as pathlengths dont just affect the timing of the sound but also the intensity/volume. Time alignment from a processor affects the time but not the volume.

;) difference between mids at stock location, (up high and way forward on the door panel) = 17", difference between them if they were as far forward but at the bottom of the doors = 13" :)

If the time alignment is taking care of the path length timing, would you recommend turning down the gain on my near side mid as a possible patchwork solution?

[arun1963]

You have to take the deck out of the harness in order to see the switch. It's a little black switch on the side of the deck chassis about half way back.

aaah.......now I feel like an idiot. :o Will be taking the unit tmrw to change the lens. Will check for this when he pulls the unit out. If its there I would activate it, I would leave the mid hpf at 63hz, set the mid lpf to 3.5khz, set the tweets hpf at 4khz and then bypass the passive xover, in this sequence. Correct?


Sounds like you have some issues though. I would recommend a Pioneer 800 or Alpine with like abilities.

Sure do have a problem. Whatever the problem is, it seems to be exacerbated by heat and the cars movement. We're in the middle of summers here with daytime temps around 115-120F. With the windows rolled up and the car parked in the open. I'm sure it gets to 130 inside the car. If I drive around in the afternoons, its getting to the point where I cant use the cd player at all. However tonight, I played the unit for about 2 hours w/o a problem, the eject function worked and no stoppages. Then the same problems started showing up. :confused:

Anyway for now I'm going to go for a $40 lens change (is there any way of knowing if the replacement lens is genuine?) and hope for the best. The unit is a real tight fit in the dash slot. You need to really push the unit to get it in. Would the extreme heat cause the plastic dash to expand and thereby squeeze the chasiss even more? Hence problems while ejecting the cd?

I'm prob just clutching at straws.

[dirthog]

aaah.......now I feel like an idiot. :o Will be taking the unit tmrw to change the lens. Will check for this when he pulls the unit out. If its there I would activate it, I would leave the mid hpf at 63hz, set the mid lpf to 3.5khz, set the tweets hpf at 4khz and then bypass the passive xover, in this sequence. Correct?

Yes, do not use the xover. Remember to turn the gain down on your tweeters and start at lower volumes.

[MacLeod]

If the time alignment is taking care of the path length timing, would you recommend turning down the gain on my near side mid as a possible patchwork solution?

No. The lower end frequencies will be stronger on the left than the right because its closer BUT the higher the frequency, the more directional it becomes and the more intense it becomes as it becomes more on axis. So while 200 Hz is stronger on the left side because its closer - 3 KHz may be stronger on the right side because its much more on axis where the left speaker is a full 90 degrees off axis.

In my car, the lower stuff is stronger on the left but 500-800 are about even between doors then the right side starts getting stronger from 1000 on up and really gets stronger in the 3.2KHz and up range.

So what Im getting at (finally) is that unless you have an independent left/right EQ to fix these issues, youre better off just leaving the gains as is.

[arun1963]

No. The lower end frequencies will be stronger on the left than the right because its closer BUT the higher the frequency, the more directional it becomes and the more intense it becomes as it becomes more on axis. So while 200 Hz is stronger on the left side because its closer - 3 KHz may be stronger on the right side because its much more on axis where the left speaker is a full 90 degrees off axis.

In my car, the lower stuff is stronger on the left but 500-800 are about even between doors then the right side starts getting stronger from 1000 on up and really gets stronger in the 3.2KHz and up range.

So what Im getting at (finally) is that unless you have an independent left/right EQ to fix these issues, youre better off just leaving the gains as is.

1. I sit on the right side hence rigt mid is closer.

2. I can tune 16 frequencies for left / right. 20hz, 31.5, 50, 80, 125, 200, 315, 500, 800, 1.25khz, 2, 3.15, 5, 8, 12.5 & 20khz.

3. Eg 3khz for me is stronger from the left tweet as that is on axis and the right (near side) tweet is off axis. hence my setting for 3.15 is -4 for left and -2 for right. 200hz is set at -4/-2, 500&800 are -5/-5 and -2/-2. 1.25kz is -2 left and -4right......so its pretty much in line with what you say.

4. Mac can you pls validate the following: The far side mid is on axis but plays softer by 3db becoz its further. Hence lets take 500 hz lets assume the reading for this frequency is 85db for l&r, when measured in the left seat. If the same frequency was measured in the right seat would the reading be 82db for left and 88db for right? Or does seat position have no impact on the sound level...........:confused:

tks

[dirthog]

Arun, remember that car audio is a different beast and what works for one person or another might not work for you. Different cars, speakers, speaker locations, install, seat material, center consoles, personal preference and more all determine the final outcome.

So we can say this is how something is or usually is and it may be that way but you need to follow what you hear.

[arun1963]

You do have the capability to go active, I think.


You have to take the deck out of the harness in order to see the switch. It's a little black switch on the side of the deck chassis about half way back.


I Owe you big time Dan .......I'm serious. God I feel like such a dork :o Yes I can go active.

Got the lens changed and flipped the switch from std to nw. I could'nt get the passive xovers disconnected today will do that tmrw. Have set the xovers from hu as follows:

sub lpf at 50 hz at a 36db slope (yes I can go all the way to 36 in std mode its only 18db)

Mid hpf at 63hz @ 24 db slope
Mid lpf at 3.15khz @ 18 db slope

Tweet hpf at 4khz @ 18db slope.

Thats the good bit. Now to the problem..............the mids are not playing. The HU for some reason is only seeing the tweets and the sub. So while I can fade left and right I cant fade front / back. But I can set the xover for all three ie tweets mids and sub

In the std mode there were 4 positions for TA - FL / FR / Front / front and back. Now I only have FR & FL. Funnily I can set the TA for all three ie tweets, mids, sub. However only the tweets and sub are playing........:confused:

In one of your posts you had mentioned that the mids should be connected to the front ch's of the amp and the tweets to the rear. My setup is the opposite........could that be a reason?

HELP!!!!!!!!

[dirthog]

In the std mode there were 4 positions for TA - FL / FR / Front / front and back. Now I only have FR & FL. Funnily I can set the TA for all three ie tweets, mids, sub.

Play around with the sub LPF and Mid HPF to find the best sound.

Check your RCA's from the Hu, Rear = Mids & Fronts= tweets I believe. The tweeters have to be set to amp channels 1/2 or 3/4 and then connect the mids to the other. Just make sure you turn the gain down for the tweeter and don't crank it up until you are 100% positive you have everything set correctly

Do you have a manual for this? If so, read through the entire network mode section.

One thing it won't tell you and it will allow you to adjust each speaker separately instead of just FR & FL. Go to the audio adjustment screens and scroll through until you see "NW 2" or "NW 3" on the upper part of the screen. Push in on the directional button on the remote or Hu in until it allows you to adjust everything separately. Never go back to the other option because settings don't carry over to the other.

So if you are adjusting everything separately and then you push the directional button in to go back to adjusting L & R it will not use individual speaker adjustments but adjustments to the entire L & R side. Hope this isn't confusing.

If you didn't reset your deck you must do so. Otherwise Network Mode won't work correctly

[arun1963]

Check your RCA's from the Hu, Rear = Mids & Fronts= tweets I believe

Pulled out the hu and checked to ensure no connection was loose. All looks ok.


If you didn't reset your deck you must do so. Otherwise Network Mode won't work correctly

Did that in NW mode but still no mids. Then I set the switch back to std mode and reset. In std mode......no prob all 5 drivers (comps+sub) played fine. Went back to nw mode and again no mids.


Just make sure you turn the gain down for the tweeter and don't crank it up until you are 100% positive you have everything set correctly

Tweets set at -8 gain till we figure out whats wrong.


One thing it won't tell you and it will allow you to adjust each speaker separately instead of just FR & FL. Go to the audio adjustment screens and scroll through until you see "NW 2" or "NW 3" on the upper part of the screen. Push in on the directional button on the remote or Hu in until it allows you to adjust everything separately. Never go back to the other option because settings don't carry over to the other.

Since I normally adjust everything for l/r i leave everything the way you mention, where u can tune seperately for l/r.


Do you have a manual for this? If so, read through the entire network mode section.

yes I do, thats the next step...........:confused:

[arun1963]

Arun, remember that car audio is a different beast and what works for one person or another might not work for you. Different cars, speakers, speaker locations, install, seat material, center consoles, personal preference and more all determine the final outcome.

So we can say this is how something is or usually is and it may be that way but you need to follow what you hear.

Oh I wasnt questioning what mac said. Heck, I use the settings from mac's tuning sheets he posted in the sq thread as a ref point. The settings may not be identical but the theme is and the sound focuses up very well. For the frequencies that i control, what mac attenuates for the left I do to and vice versa.

Some frequencies like 5khz, 500 & 800 hz which mac runs close for l/r are what I struggle with sometimes. On some cd's 5kz sounds best equal for l/r and on some cd's it soounds better slightly higher on the left. Same story with 500 & 800. Dont know if this is a recording iissue or a positional issue.

I also understand abt the diff in interiors and how that impacts sound. I normally go with whats sound best. But the mind always wants to know why :rolleyes:

[arun1963]

Still struggling with the active mode. Can't get the mids to play in NW mode. Dan I have a couple of questions

1. In NW mode, do you have the ability to fade front and back?

2. Why would the mids only play in std mode and not in NW? At this point I'm willing to try anything :rolleyes:

3. Could the passive xovers which are still in the signal path, be causing this? I dont think so but...........the passive xover splits the signal at 2.6khz and it should continue to do that. It should not cause the mids to stop playing.

This eve when I get back I'll switch the mids to the front ch and the tweets to the rear and see if that does anything

Have also sent a mail to pioneer cs explaining the problem. Lets see if they can shed any light.

[dirthog]

Oh I wasnt questioning what mac said. Heck, I use the settings from mac's tuning sheets he posted in the sq thread as a ref point. The settings may not be identical but the theme is and the sound focuses up very well. For the frequencies that i control, what mac attenuates for the left I do to and vice versa.

Some frequencies like 5khz, 500 & 800 hz which mac runs close for l/r are what I struggle with sometimes. On some cd's 5kz sounds best equal for l/r and on some cd's it soounds better slightly higher on the left. Same story with 500 & 800. Dont know if this is a recording iissue or a positional issue.

I also understand abt the diff in interiors and how that impacts sound. I normally go with whats sound best. But the mind always wants to know why :rolleyes:

What works for Mac or anyone else might not work for you. Yes, use other peoples settings as a reference but you have to tune your completely different setup differently. Go to one of these websites and download the 16 frequencies that you can adjust.

http://binkster.net/extras.shtml
http://marchandelec.com/sweeps.html

Assuming you have every other aspect of the tuning correct, listed previously. Play each frequency to see if it's centered in your stage. If it's left of center lower the left side frequency and raise the right an equal amount until its centered. This will help equalize the frequencies of each side. You can also use these to level each frequency for a flat response.


Every CD, or track for that matter, is not recorded equally. It's a person with personal taste mixing the records. What speakers was he/she listening to when they were mixing the track? What was the quality of equipment used to record the music? What environment did they record in? What level was it recorder at? Basically I'm saying each recording is different and you have tune with recorded music.


Still struggling with the active mode. Can't get the mids to play in NW mode. Dan I have a couple of questions

1. In NW mode, do you have the ability to fade front and back?

2. Why would the mids only play in std mode and not in NW? At this point I'm willing to try anything :rolleyes:

3. Could the passive xovers which are still in the signal path, be causing this? I dont think so but...........the passive xover splits the signal at 2.6khz and it should continue to do that. It should not cause the mids to stop playing.

This eve when I get back I'll switch the mids to the front ch and the tweets to the rear and see if that does anything

Have also sent a mail to pioneer cs explaining the problem. Lets see if they can shed any light.

In network mode there is NO FRONT TO BACK. It should be tweeters L&R, mid L&R and sub L&R(with the option to go mono).

I believe I already said REMOVE THE PASSIVE CROSSOVERS. You don't use them for active.

Go back to network mode, reset the deck with the pin hole on the front and run through all of the settings. Make sure the mids aren't muted.


I don't want to walk you through every step of the way when you haven't even done the research for yourself. Read the manual and use google to figure something out and if that fails then I'm more than willing to help but I don't want to hold your hand. Most of your questions are covered in the manual.

[arun1963]

ok ok, dont get mad :(


What works for Mac or anyone else might not work for you. Yes, use other peoples settings as a reference but you have to tune your completely different setup differently. Go to one of these websites and download the 16 frequencies that you can adjust.

http://binkster.net/extras.shtml
http://marchandelec.com/sweeps.html


Thats what I do. I use Mac's settings as a ref guide. I already have the test tones from binkster. Remember you told me to download them many moons ago....Havent run them for a while so will try them again at the current settings and see if any changes need to be made.


Every CD, or track for that matter, is not recorded equally. It's a person with personal taste mixing the records. What speakers was he/she listening to when they were mixing the track? What was the quality of equipment used to record the music? What environment did they record in? What level was it recorder at? Basically I'm saying each recording is different and you have tune with recorded music.

Very true. Its a royal PIA trying to hit the sweet spot with each cd / track. Its frustrating at times cause you spend more time tuning than listening to the damn music. :rolleyes:


In network mode there is NO FRONT TO BACK. It should be tweeters L&R, mid L&R and sub L&R(with the option to go mono).

Yes I figured that one out this eve. In NW mode you use the gain control to fade to mids / tweets / sub. :o


I believe I already said REMOVE THE PASSIVE CROSSOVERS. You don't use them for active.


I know you have to remove the passive xover. Its just that by the time I got the lens fixed last eve the shop that does the installs was closed for the day. Thats why they were left in. I wasnt going to do it myself cause I dont trust myself to do it properly.


I don't want to walk you through every step of the way when you haven't even done the research for yourself. Read the manual and use google to figure something out and if that fails then I'm more than willing to help but I don't want to hold your hand. Most of your questions are covered in the manual.

I read the relevant parts of the manual a few times today. Things are clearer.

Oh and by the way, on the way back from work I stopped in at the install shop and got him to switch the mids to front ch and tweets to rear chanels. Switched back to NW mode, did the reset.......It works now! I have the tweets the sub and the mids. Got the installer to remove the passives and I'm fully active now. :D Thanks for your patience and help. Will post a little later with the initial reaction to going active.

[arun1963]

I don't know why flipping the mids and tweets at the amp resolved the issue, just happy that it did. On a side note, earlier in the day I had sent a mail to pioneer cs in singapore re the issue. Around 4pm I got a call from a local company they have just appointed as their distributor cum service provider for India, asking if they could help. Nice touch.

The first thing that struck me about going active, was the clarity of sound. 24db/oct for the mids from the hu, are any day better than 12+12. (12 from the hu+12 from the amp). 36db for the sub and the bass sounds completely different. With the passives, a lpf at 50db on a 18db slope, meant that I was hearing 80&100 as well. The initial hit would be up-front but the tail which I guess was the 80+hz would give away the subs location at the back. Now on a 36db slope there is no tail....its tight and all upfront.

I tried various settings for the sub/mid xover points. For now I'm going with sub cutoff at 50hz @ 36db and mids hp at 63hz @ 24db slope. The momo mids play with clarity till 50hz. Below that they start to struggle and they are easily located. Steep slopes seem to work well at the sub/mid xover point.

It seems things are different at the other end. For the mid/tweet xover point shallower slopes seem to help with blending and clarity. I have the mids lp at 3.15khz @ 18db/oct and the tweets hp at 4khz on a 12db slope. I can now bump up the 5khz-12khz range, to really open up the top end without any harshness creeping in.

The above is based on about 2 hrs worth of listening. Any tips/tricks for active mode would be greatly appreciated. Once again, thank you dan for all your help. I would not be here if it were'nt for you. ;)

[arun1963]

Noise Problems.

Last evening I had gone fully active, w/o a problem. This evening when I switched on the ignition the speakers made a popping sound and when i cranked the engine, there was engine noise.

1. Checked the grounding and thats secure.
2. Reconnected the passive xovers and the noise was gone.

Drove to the installer and asked him to add noise surpressors. Removed the passive xover put in the supressors and there is still noise. Even with the engine off. Hiss crackle and some popping.

So I'm back to passive mode :(:confused:

1. Do the momo xovers have built in noise surpressors?
2. What could be the cause and what is the solution?

Tks a ton in advance

[MacLeod]

If you have noise ONLY when the active crossover is hooked up then obviously the problem is there. Either its not hooked up properly, the ground is bad or its a faulty unit.

[arun1963]

If you have noise ONLY when the active crossover is hooked up then obviously the problem is there. Either its not hooked up properly, the ground is bad or its a faulty unit.

:o

Here is a comprehensive list of issues identified. When asking for a solution I should have all the facts first. FMS syndrome.

1. There is noise in Both modes. Its less in passive mode but its there. I just have to listen carefully to hear it. Also the noise kills the stage. So this is the first issue.

2. From the HU fader, if I fade left, it cuts the left side and plays the right side speakers. So something is reversed.

3. If take volume past 35 out of 62, the 500.4 clips and cuts the momo comps. The sub continues to play. If I turn the volume down a bit, after a couple of seconds the comps play again. If the hu was clipping it would cut the sub as well, I think.

I have rechecked the grounds and the ground connection is secure. I hate these damn incompetent installers here. My baby is sick and I dont know whats wrong.

There is one installer in town who does custom installs on the top end cars. Porches, Bimers etc. He charges an arm and a leg however he does a really clean job and he is a sq nut himself. I have seen some of his installs and they are excellent and clean.

Mac, if u read this post, I would really appreciate your opinion on what the problems are so that I can visit this guy tmrw. I would like your views before I visit him because, I trust your word over whatever he may have to say.

Tks a ton in advance.

[Toxis]

What kind of "noise" is it? Is it a whine, almost whistle like that varies in tone when you rev the engine? Or is it more like a hiss like you're tuning into a bad radio station and it doesnt' vary in pitch with the motor?

[MacLeod]

:o
2. From the HU fader, if I fade left, it cuts the left side and plays the right side speakers. So something is reversed.

3. If take volume past 35 out of 62, the 500.4 clips and cuts the momo comps. The sub continues to play. If I turn the volume down a bit, after a couple of seconds the comps play again. If the hu was clipping it would cut the sub as well, I think.


If the speaker wires or RCA's are not reversed then theyre shorting to ground somewhere. Something is loose somewhere. If your grounds are secure start checking the speaker leads and make sure theyre not cut anywhere or any of the terminations are touching bare metal.

[Toxis]

I would unhook the speaker wire from your left speaker and touch the leads to a AA battery. If the left speaker pops, you know the wires are hooked up correctly. If it pops the right, go back to the installers and get money back.

As for the amp shutting off, could be a couple things. It's most likely overheating which means it's just protecting itself. Make sure it has plenty of ventilation. If it's warm or hot (but not burn your skin hot), it's most likely your gain levels are set incorrectly. Either way, i would double check those levels. Easy way for someone without all the proper equipment to set them is to get a small flat head screw driver and go somewhere you can jam the system without getting in trouble. First turn the gains all the way down. Then turn the car on, turn the radio to a volume number you want to use as your "max." The radio goes to 62, so I would say 50 or 55. Then go turn your gains back up till they reach the point of distortion or enough volume for your liking; whichever comes first! Then back the gains back down a touch. If you set the volume at 55, even with the gains backed off a bit, just remember to not go over 50 to protect your speakers. Hope this helps!!

[arun1963]

tks mac n toxis. Had left for the install place before I got your replies. Some of what youll mentioned was done. Let me work back wards from current status:

1. Noise is gone, so is my ability to control each driver independently. Everything else seems fixed. No Noise, no amp clipping, etc. I want to be in bi-amp passive mode, but I am not. Mids hooked to front ch and tweets to rear ch. Going back to the fader, when I fade all the way forward I should hear only the mids, but I hear the mids and tweets. When I fade all the way back I hear nothing but the sub. I think fading left and right is also messed up.

2. Will try and outline the signal path for any obvious mistakes. Will also cover what happened today.

A. HU-->4ch and mono Amps: Replaced the old rca's with pairs of stingers. One pair running to the 4ch amp and one to the sub. To biamp, do i need to run 2pairs to the 4 ch amp? The one going to the mono connects directly to the amp. The one to the 4ch amp connects into an interconnect cable which has two female pins at one end to take the stinger and 4 males at the other end to connect to the amp. A pair of wires is going out of each female end and the pair is not shielded, at least it doesnt look shielded in the limited light available at 1am :)

B. 4ch Amp to xover : From the amp, front ch connected to mids and rears to tweets of the xovers. For now I cant trace the wires from xover outs to the individual drivers. polarity looks good. Xovers in dual mode.

C. Power and Grounding setup: Main power cable from the battery runs into a newly installed audison conection fuse distributor with two outs one to each amp. Grounding done on a new point on the back seat after filing off paint from the area and ground point connected into another audison ground terminal. Also the signal from the hu is grounded upfront before feeding it to the stingers. I'm not sure about this, but this how the installer explained it.

My sunday was shot trying to resolve the issue. Had to wait 4 hours before they got started on my car. They did a clean job on the install with everything now on a 3/4" carpeted mdf board, screwed on to the back seat/ All wiring from behind the board. The guy who runs the place wasnt there but I spoke to him on thephone and he explained the job to the installers. Obviously something slipped in this game of chinese whisper. :rolleyes:

Any idea on whats wrong? As always thanks for your help.

Arun

[arun1963]

Ran an extra pair of RCA's to connect hu rear to amp rear channel. Both pairs of RCA's connected directly to the amp. Got rid of the silly interconnect I spent so much time detailing in the post above, written at 4am. :o

And for all of you'll laughing your **s off at my stupidity (half of me is still laughing), I'll say this much. There are two sides to the brain one that puts together a stable and accurate signal path and the other that creates and sets the sound stage, which is the ulimate objective. :p ;) :D

I feel the stingers are giving a stronger signal to the amp. Previous RCA's were some generic chinese variety. With the stingers I get the same volume at 42 that would get at 50 with the old ones. Also sound is clearer.

tks mac n toxis.

[dirthog]

You do need a total of 3 pairs or RCA's. One pair for mids, tweeters and sub.

Be careful of hot swaping(Hu with power) the RCA's at the Hu because the output of the Hu was not designed well and it will blow a pico fuse inside. This will cause a hiss that can only be removed by having the Hu serviced.

[arun1963]

:o It sounds like I need to pull out the hu and check for what is connected where. I know the front and rear out at the p80 is connected to the frnt/rear 4 ch amp. I dont know exactly where the sub is conned to the hu. Hot swapping went over my head. :confused:

[Toxis]

he's just saying make sure the car is turned off when hooking everything up. If there's signal flowing, trouble brews!

[arun1963]

he's just saying make sure the car is turned off when hooking everything up. If there's signal flowing, trouble brews!

Tks. Rewiring was done with the car keys in my pocket. Tks Dan.

Question : Is it ok to flip the rca cables at the amp input if I need to? IE to switch the mids and tweets between front and rear?

[Toxis]

I'd run the tweets as fronts and mids as rears... that's how the radio should work (pending it is exactly like the 880/800).

[arun1963]

I'd run the tweets as fronts and mids as rears... that's how the radio should work (pending it is exactly like the 880/800).

Thats the funny thingThe unit has 2 modes std and network where you are active. In std mode i had the tweets on the front channel and the mids on rears. When I switch to NW mode and reset the HU, it only plays the tweets and sub. No mids. When I swap the mids to front and tweets to rear it plays all drivers. Havent been able to figure this one.

This is exactly the reason I asked, if I could safely swap the f/r rca's at the amp.

[dirthog]

Tks. Rewiring was done with the car keys in my pocket. Tks Dan.

Question : Is it ok to flip the rca cables at the amp input if I need to? IE to switch the mids and tweets between front and rear?

Disconnect any power going the Hu, not just having the key off.

It is ok to swap them at the Hu. You need to make sure you have them correct or the tweeters will probably blow.

[dirthog]

Thats the funny thingThe unit has 2 modes std and network where you are active. In std mode i had the tweets on the front channel and the mids on rears. When I switch to NW mode and reset the HU, it only plays the tweets and sub. No mids. When I swap the mids to front and tweets to rear it plays all drivers. Havent been able to figure this one.

This is exactly the reason I asked, if I could safely swap the f/r rca's at the amp.

Never run tweeters and mids seperatly in std mode. Theres no HPF for the tweeters in std mode which will result in a blown tweeter.

Did you have the passive crossover still connected when you where in NW mode?

Sorry, I didn't want to come off as mad. Sometimes I get on here at work when I'm stressed out and my mind is not very patient.

[dirthog]

OK, I think we need to start from the top. Everything we cover from here is in Network mode and we aren't using the passive crossovers at all. Put those things back in the box.:D

The Hu/RCA's: The front RCA's coming from the Hu run the mids, rear RCA's run the tweeters. I had a chance to pull my Hu to look at this.

Run the Left Mid (left front) RCA into channel 1 and Right Mid (right front) RCA into channel 2 of the amp.

Next, run the left tweeter(left rear) into channel 3 and right tweeter (right rear) into channel 4 of the amp. Turn the gain down for these two channels at the amp.

Speaker wires: Run channel 1 speaker wire from the amp directly to the left mid and channel 2 directly to the right mid.

Channel 3 speaker wire will run directly to the left tweeter and channel 4 will run directly to the right tweeter.

All crossovers on the amp need to be turned off.

Once we have this configured correctly you should have sound from all of the speakers. Let me know if this works.

Remember: Don't hot swap and keep the volume low, for now.

[arun1963]

hi dan,

Am in NW mode and the front ch of the amp are driving the mids and the rears are driving the tweets. Just like your connections.

For some reason if I flip the connections ie mids on rears and tweets on fronts in NW mode, it cuts out the mids. Yes I'm bi-amped and active. am finally able to seperate the sub / mids / tweets.

Yes I control all 4 drivers independantly. Settings as follows:

sub lpf : 50 hz @ 36 db slope from the hu, bypass from the amp
mid hpf : 63 hz @24db slope
mid lpf : 3.15 @ 18 db slope
tweet hpf ; 4.00khz @ 12 db slope.

This gives great imaging.

[arun1963]

When I switch to NW mode and reset the HU, it only plays the tweets and sub. No mids. When I swap the mids to front and tweets to rear it plays all drivers. Havent been able to figure this one.


hi dan,

I think the above captioned sentence has caused all the confusion. I should have explained better. Hope this clears it up.

1. When I switch from NW to STD mode I always re-connect the xovers. I dont just switch modes from the HU. Like wise if I go from std to NW I disconnect the xover. Why do I do this? I did it a couple of times after going active just to compare the two sounds. I wont be doing it anymore. Am convinced active is much better.

2. When I had tried to go active the first time (and screwed things up), what I should have done is just taken the speaker wire connected to each driver, directly to the amp (tweets to front and mids to rear). Instead, like a true blue technical idiot, I pulled the ends of tweeter in and tweeter out from xover and connected these and so on for all the drivers. I put in a joint in the path where there should not have been any joint. :o I hate doing any install / connection work cause I suck at it so bad. But I'm decent at tuning. One half of the brain is stronger than the other :D

3. Currently there is no switch between my battery and the hu/amp, so you are right even when I take the key out of the ignition the curret from the battery would be flowing to the amp and the HU. Oh brother, another install upgrade nightmare comming up.......:rolleyes: :eek: Next time I get any install work done I'll get the battery disconnected first. Tks.

One thing that hasnt worked out for me is variable slopes on left and right side. When I do this, I really struggle with the staging. Eg If I keep the mid hp point at 24db for left and 18db for right the stage feels like it's higher on the left and lower on the right ie it slopes. I tried using the eq for left/right to correct this it didnt work out. So I keep left/right slopes the same but yes my mid hp is steeper than my mid lp.

Seperating the mids from the sub and the tweet from the mid makes the sound cleaner. The sound is a lot quieter. The xover points sub to mid and mid to tweet are a lot calmer. Eg I cut my mid lp at 3.15 and tweet hp at 4. To cover this gap I give shallower slopes from both mid lp and tweet hp as mentioned in my previous post. With a bit of eq' the results are really good. Clean airy sound :).

[dirthog]

hi dan,

Am in NW mode and the front ch of the amp are driving the mids and the rears are driving the tweets. Just like your connections.

For some reason if I flip the connections ie mids on rears and tweets on fronts in NW mode, it cuts out the mids. Yes I'm bi-amped and active. am finally able to seperate the sub / mids / tweets.

You can't be active and bi-amped at the same time.

bi-amped = use the passive crossovers
active = don't use the passive crossovers

I don't know why you would want the rear RCA's running the mids and the fronts running the Tweeters. You don't have the correct HPF to protect the tweeters = blown tweeter. If you have the RCA's in this configuration and have the passive crossover connected you won't hear anything from the mids. Reason is because your deck and passive crossover are cutting out any sound trying to get to the mids.

Yes I control all 4 drivers independantly. Settings as follows:

sub lpf : 50 hz @ 36 db slope from the hu, bypass from the amp
mid hpf : 63 hz @24db slope
mid lpf : 3.15 @ 18 db slope
tweet hpf ; 4.00khz @ 12 db slope.

This gives great imaging.


hi dan,

I think the above captioned sentence has caused all the confusion. I should have explained better. Hope this clears it up.

1. When I switch from NW to STD mode I always re-connect the xovers. I dont just switch modes from the HU. Like wise if I go from std to NW I disconnect the xover. Why do I do this? I did it a couple of times after going active just to compare the two sounds. I wont be doing it anymore. Am convinced active is much better.

The passive crossover sets the HPF/slope for the tweeters and LPF/slope for the mids and it can not be adjusted.

When you go active(never use the passive crossover when active) the Hu sets the HPF/slope for the tweeters and LPF/slope for the mids, plus additional filters and settings. If you have the passive crossover still connected, the Hu and passive crossover are trying to do the same thing which will not help you in achieving great sound.

Unlike the passive crossover the Hu's crossover points and slopes can be adjusted allowing for more tunning options to achieve the best sound.

2. When I had tried to go active the first time (and screwed things up), what I should have done is just taken the speaker wire connected to each driver, directly to the amp (tweets to front and mids to rear). Instead, like a true blue technical idiot, I pulled the ends of tweeter in and tweeter out from xover and connected these and so on for all the drivers. I put in a joint in the path where there should not have been any joint. :o I hate doing any install / connection work cause I suck at it so bad. But I'm decent at tuning. One half of the brain is stronger than the other :D

3. Currently there is no switch between my battery and the hu/amp, so you are right even when I take the key out of the ignition the curret from the battery would be flowing to the amp and the HU. Oh brother, another install upgrade nightmare comming up.......:rolleyes: :eek: Next time I get any install work done I'll get the battery disconnected first. Tks.

One thing that hasnt worked out for me is variable slopes on left and right side. When I do this, I really struggle with the staging. Eg If I keep the mid hp point at 24db for left and 18db for right the stage feels like it's higher on the left and lower on the right ie it slopes. I tried using the eq for left/right to correct this it didnt work out. So I keep left/right slopes the same but yes my mid hp is steeper than my mid lp.

Keep trying different setting until it all starts to fall into place.

Seperating the mids from the sub and the tweet from the mid makes the sound cleaner. The sound is a lot quieter. The xover points sub to mid and mid to tweet are a lot calmer. Eg I cut my mid lp at 3.15 and tweet hp at 4. To cover this gap I give shallower slopes from both mid lp and tweet hp as mentioned in my previous post. With a bit of eq' the results are really good. Clean airy sound :).

Hope this helps.

[arun1963]

Hi Dan,

Some questions and some comments


You can't be active and bi-amped at the same time.

As I understand it, bi amping is giving each driver an independent amp channel. The 4 drivers are now connected directly to the 4 amp channels. I'm in network mode at the hu with xovers out of the path. So Would'nt I be active and bi-amped?


If you have the RCA's in this configuration and have the passive crossover connected you won't hear anything from the mids. Reason is because your deck and passive crossover are cutting out any sound trying to get to the mids.


While in passive mode, I always had my tweets connected to fronts and mids to rear through the xover. When I first tried to go active and connect the drivers directly to the amp, this is how I hooked up the drivers. Due to the way I hooked it up (use of connector / joint) there were severe noise/ static problems, the amp was clipping etc etc. When I redid the install, I changed the rca's to stingers and again I connected the tweets directly to the front amp ch and mids on rear bypassing the xovers and the mids didnt play. I then disconnected all the drivers and re-connected the tweets to the rear ch and mids to fronts and I flipped the rca's at the amp. It worked. That is how it is hooked up now. I can try putting it the other way just to see if it plays now, but I really want to avoid touching the setup.

I dont know if the noise bit tripped something in the hu. Are there any iissues with this setup?