Dedicated Outlet [Archive]

TonyPTX

03-05-2003, 09:55 PM

Mantis, I'm assuming your estimate is labor only?

I'd guess a job like such (done properly and professionally) would take 2-3 hours. Not sure what the going rate for an electrician is (but I'd guess 45-50/hour). A quality 20 amp breaker should cost you about $7.00 and 50' of 12-3 NM-B wire about $20. (Assumption here is that you have a spare slot to drop a new breaker circuit in)

As for some tips, I wouldn't use anything less than 12 gauge wire (no matter what the electrician says). He'll try to get you to pick the thinner gauge because it's easier to work with. Hardest part will be getting the line into the breaker panel. That plus the fact that everything inside is HOT unless you pull the plug on the entire house when you install the breaker (good recomendation) as it is not advisable to work in a breaker panel with the cover removed and it still being hot! When you work with 4160V, 3P, 60HZ in 7/0 wire (~ 0.5" in diameter) once in your life, you gain a whole new appreciation for electricians. HOT STUFF!!!!!!!!

polkatese

03-05-2003, 10:22 PM

you are correct, Dan, the sub is on the left corner of the fireplace. I ordered the PS Audio power port, thanks F1nut. Is there a site that would give me a general direction on doing it myself? hopefully it doesn't involve fishing the cable thru the drywall, thanks..

polkatese

03-05-2003, 10:24 PM

Tony,
that's great information, looks like I might have to call the professional on this...

mantis

03-05-2003, 10:33 PM

Yes I quoted labor only......sorry I wasn't clear on that.
Polkatese,
if your not into fishing wires in the walls,then don't do this yourself.Save yourself the headache and pay a qualified electrician to wire it.It's not alot of money considered what you own man.........

polkatese

03-05-2003, 10:39 PM

Dan,
can't agree more, besides, if I do it myself, it might turn into two weekend project....

F1nut

03-05-2003, 10:45 PM

I've got to agree, it's well worth the money to have it done right and no code problems, etc. I think you'll like the power port, my guy thought I was crazy to spend that much on a outlet, but then he's not into audio.

mantis

03-05-2003, 11:33 PM

F1nut,
my guy thought I was crazy to spend that much on a outlet, but then he's not into audio.
Man I can't say it enough,the price of a given thing is in the beholder.I think even small levels of perfromnce gains are well worth it.If it costs alot,but you get an improvement,what the hell, you only live once.

I don't think any rock needs to remain unturned.If it helps......... man I want to try it.:cool:

dorokusai

03-06-2003, 02:02 AM

I wired the power port myself, not hard job, but you must be educated about electricity, and take precautions. USE A MULTIMETER! I am not an electrician.

This was what I did exactly:

Materiels - 2/ 35ft runs of #14 solid copper wire(NEC)
1 Multimeter
1 Insulated #2 screwdriver
1 pair Wire Cutters
1 Knife or Linemans Tool
1 Power Port Outlet
4 Wire Caps
1 Outlet Cover
1 Drunk friend to use instead of Multimeter

1: Determined what breaker was involved. 20 amp 2 Pole(2 wires). Removed breaker panel cover. Check voltage with multimeter(110 AC)
2: Turned breaker off. Check breaker with multimeter(0 AC). Checked far end w/ multimeter(0 AC). Millivolts, may be present and is just residual energy, and bleed over voltage. Just don't stick your tongue on the contacts.
3: Removed far end outlet cover and outlet.
4: Removed wires from breaker. One at a time, and screw cap on it to be safe. I used an insulated screwdriver.
Optional: After you remove both wires, cut them far enough away from hot portion of box(Middle).
5: Taped existing wires to new wires and used existing as a fishtape. By tape I mean, make fishhooks with each pair of wires, hook them together, and tape entire junction and ends so there is nothing to snag. should look like a smooth run of wire, with a chubby spot(Where you made your "knot")
6: Pulled new wires to breaker panel. Pull extra.
7: Cut far end and wired new outlet, just like previous outlet. 2 wires and the ground was already present in my gang box. If your gang box is plastic, and no ground is present, it is grounded at your breaker panel, no worries. Metal gang boxes must be grounded.
8: Push extra wire into wall and secured new outlet and new cover.
9: Stripped the 2 new wires at breaker panel, added caps and inserted/ secured, one at a time into the 2 receptacles on 20 amp breaker.
10: Turned breaker on, check voltage with multimeter(110 AC). I didnt hear my friend scream, so I went to far end and checked voltage there also(110 AC).
11: Dressed up wires carefully, and replaced breaker panel cover.
12: Marked breaker as "Bad Mo-Fo Hi-Fi" and cracked beer.

If I forgot anything please let me know, but that was outta my head, and what I did. You could also wire a new breaker with your new ends. Pop the old breaker out, its easy, and pop new one in.

Wrenches for your plans to do this may be that you don't have a single outlet situation like I had. I was also pulling to an unfinished room, from a finished one, that helped alot(Less closed walls). In addition, most outlets in a room are daisy chained to one another, so you may find you have FOUR wires at that outlet instead of two. If thats the case you need to determine which outlet is being fed from your "project" outlet. When you determine your "Pull" pair, cap the other two wires present and restore power after rewiring outlet with your "Pull" pair. Plug something into the adjacent outlets, if that object does not work, then that is the daisychained outlet. THAT outlet may also be daisy chained, which could mean that you are disrupting service to multiple outlets. There are other variables, and the more outlets involved, the more it will cost you to have an electrician to install that ONE "project" outlet for you. It isn't just about one outlet. $60.00/ labor would be a perfect situation only.

This is just fyi, feel free to do what you wish. At least take a look at what you have to do, if it is what I had, go for it. If not, call someone, or buy a Home Depot book.

GOOD LUCK

:D

F1nut

03-06-2003, 02:43 AM

Originally posted by dorokusai
Marked breaker as "Bad Mo-Fo Hi-Fi

Excellent idea :D

I see you're right down the road from me, ever had the cheesebugers at the Sunshine store?

Welcome to the forum!
F1

dorokusai

03-06-2003, 10:32 AM

:) I noticed that also F1Nut, lol. I just moved to Damascus from Germantown a year ago..the only "Lo-Tech" eateries Ive been to are: J&P Pizza(Awesome greasy NY style), Jimmy Cone, Red Rooster and Bob & Ray's(Breakfast). Where is Sunshine burger? I go through Brookeville every couple days as a back way from our office in Hanover/ Elkridge. Nice little town, thats Rte. 97 rite? I like F1/IMSA/SCCA, Summit Point used to be my second home on weekends. NO Nascar can compete with a souped up Pinto screaching around turn 5 at 80 miles an hour...priceless. :eek: Talk to you later!

Ron-P

03-06-2003, 11:41 AM

I've got to agree, it's well worth the money to have it done right and no code problems, etc.
Just remember, in most cities you will need to pull a permit, add that to the cost.

I ran two dedicated 20 amp lines into the Driftwood. It took all of 1 hour. Very easy to do, although I did have attic access and no walls to run through.

Peace Out~:D

TonyPTX

03-06-2003, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Ron-P

I ran two dedicated 20 amp lines into the Driftwood. It took all of 1 hour. Very easy to do, although I did have attic access and no walls to run through.

For referrence, how much did your permit cost?

:D :D

I promise I won't tell a soul...

dorokusai

03-06-2003, 05:36 PM

Cost will vary by state and county, and permit applied for. I personally do not know what permits cost. Permits may not be needed for repair of existing internal construction of your personal home. If it is an apartment, or condominium, you need some more permission. I mean, you don't need a permit to change a light bulb, and that is as general a repair as an outlet per se, but some states are crazy.

Just follow NEC( http://www.nfpa.org/nec/ ), and all that work could have been in place before your occupancy....<wink wink>. If you start a fire, burn your house down, and you were using lamp cord to run wall wire, you may have a permit problem. Also an insurance problem.

Ron-P

03-06-2003, 06:03 PM

For referrence, how much did your permit cost?
No permit for me bro.

In a sit'tation like this, no need to pay for a yes man.

Peace Out~:D

F1nut

03-06-2003, 06:12 PM

dorokusai,

It's the store on the corner of 97 and 650. As my neighbor stated to me when I moved here, "Man, you haven't lived until you've had a Sunshine burger." If you want to hook up and have a burger/ talk some audio, drop me a email at jvrestore@aol.com.

F1

del44

03-06-2003, 07:17 PM

FWIW . If you are going to be using a 20 amp circuit. wire that is 12 guage or lower is what you need. You can use 14 guage wire if the breaker is 15 amps. Check your local codes.

polkatese

03-07-2003, 01:55 AM

Guys,
thanks for all the input, it's very helpful. Now the next task is to find a licensed electrician. I stumbled into this posting on asylum, can anybody confirm how likely is this? it seems plausible to happen (logical), what do you think?
Let's assume it's indeed happened, upping the fuse amp should take care of business, right?

Posted by audioengr (M) on March 06, 2003 at 13:06:46

I have a friend in town that uses my cables. Well, he recently upgraded his AC wiring, putting in 10-gauge 20-amp circuits. When he plugged his B&K 5-channel amp in and the caps started to charge up, it immediately blew fuses. He sent it to the local stereo store where he purchased it a couple of years ago for troubleshooting.
He also called me and told me about this. I suspected that the new line voltage was so high due to the new heavy AC wiring, that there was no drop at all, and the voltage in Portland is usually 122 VAC, so the fuse was popping because the fuse was sized based on typical voltages and line drops. Sure enough, when he plugged the amp into an older 15-amp circuit, the replacement fuse did not blow. This is a good learning for those installing heavy wiring and also for B&K, who could be more careful in selecting the proper fuse - maybe a 20 amp or a slo-blo?

dorokusai

03-07-2003, 02:03 AM

Sounds plausible to me. Small spikes in voltage, hi or low cause strange things to happen.

SDA SRS 1.2

03-07-2003, 10:37 AM

Highly recommend the electrician and the dedicated outlet. It does make a difference in feeding a hungry amp! :)

Tour2ma

03-07-2003, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by polkatese
Guys... I stumbled into this posting on asylum, can anybody confirm how likely is this? it seems plausible to happen (logical), what do you think?
Let's assume it's indeed happened, upping the fuse amp should take care of business, right?Sounds like a load of doo-doo to me... Anybody that suggests an audio manufacturer use slo-blo's in the power supply to their equipment does not know what he is talking about. Fast blo's are there to prevent damage just like they did in this case. The guy who did the installation probably eff'd it up. It's conceivable he even ran 220V by accident. A 40’ run of 10 gauge wire vs. 12 gauge is not going to make a difference in the delivery of voltage spikes… period.

You NEVER want to change the rating of your equipment’s in-line fuse. "Can you say, Bye-bye warranty? I knew you could.”… and you say that right after you say bye-bye amp, or AVP, or whatever… Any delay in the line fuse doing its job means one order of fried electronics coming right up.

Polkatese, as ball parks go the estimates you've received a fine, but it's all going to come down to how long a run and how complicated is it, i.e., as mantis said attic run vs. wall run. Other big factor I did not see (but may have missed) is whether or not you have space for an added breaker in your existing breaker box. If not, you have to buy an external box and that adds a chunk.

I've installed several circuits in my past three homes, and have learned slowly, but surely a few tricks on how to do it right. And trust me, I started out “cheap Charlie” wrong.

One thing to consider, especially if you either have the room in your existing breaker box or need an added box for even one run, go ahead and do two runs as Ron did. Use one for amps and the other for your AVP and source equipment. Two essentially parallel runs should not drive up the labor that much more, and most of your total cost will likely be labor, so as long as he’s there…

Finally get at least three estimates, and get them for one run and two runs. Some won’t want to come out to give an estimate without you paying a service fee… eff them. There are plenty of fish in the sea. In addition to the prices they quote in writing, you can get a feel for who knows what they’re doing, will be reliable, and is just the best person. It’s worth a few extra bucks to get a contractor you have “a good feeling” about vs. “Mr. Low-Bidder” who was late and mumbled and …

polkatese

03-07-2003, 09:33 PM

Tour2ma,
thanks for your comments, it's very helpful. I did a bit of research today, and confirmed a few things:
- there are about 5 more slots inside the breaker box
- checked with one certified electrician co. and they want $29.95 to come and estimate, but it will be applied to the actual work if I hire him to do the work. Needless to say, I hung up
- all of the existing conv outlets are wired using 12 gauges, and 15amp
- I estimated that this would be a semi difficult job, since the distance from the box to the outlet is about 25 ft straight line (happen to be on the same side of the house, but crossing over the garage and a bedroom)
- Options to run the wire would be thru the outer stucco (using pipe) which is not optimal since it will not be cosmetically appealing, goes up thru the attic (it's a two storey house) and drop on the other side, or thru the drywall (which would make it a real project, going thru the insulation, fire beam, frame, etc.) My option right now, at the minimum, is to replace the outlet with PS Audio port (should be in by next week), find a referral from the dealer that I bought the Rotel (that happen to do custom HT wiring also). Thanks for the suggestion on getting two runs quote, it makes a lot of sense. Stay tuned....

Tour2ma

03-07-2003, 10:17 PM

Oh Great, a 2 story.. tougher pulls and more $$$.

First, don't forget to drop an outlet in the amp circuit by the REL.

Second, I understand the reluctance to run conduit under the eave, etc. But if you can handle the looks of running conduit up the side of the house from the box, through the attic and then down the outside of the house where the HT is... it will make the job easier. Cosmetically you can run conduit out of the bottom of the box (you always want to go in and out of the bottom to prevent rain entry) along the base of the house (can even bury it), then run up next to a downspout (if you're house is guttered) and repeat on the side where you drop to the HT room.

Otherwise you're facing some drywall repair on the second floor. Holes will have to be bored thru the 2x4's to pass the wire from the attic to the ground floor. You are likely facing some of this in your HT room as well to get the outlets close to your equip and that second outlet to the REL across the room.

When you get estimates, get them for both these routes and the under-the-eave-across-the-garage as well and you may find that the conduit might not look so bad after all... :)
Late thought: Also have them look at burying a run under the driveway... might be the best esthetics/ cost compromise.

And one added thought on that other post where the guy tried to blow up his B&K amp. I don't think he wired 220. There are three wires in Romex, two for the circuit and one for ground. I think it's likely he attached one hot lead and the grounding wire to his outlet. Plug in and the B&K completes the circuit and BOOM a short to ground right through the amp... now that's a power spike! :eek:

polkatese

03-07-2003, 11:01 PM

Tour2ma,
running the conduit along the base of the house seems like the right solution. I will get the estimate and let you know how it goes. Thanks a bunch!

Tour2ma

03-07-2003, 11:16 PM

You're welcome my friend...

TonyPTX

03-08-2003, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by Tour2ma

And one added thought on that other post where the guy tried to blow up his B&K amp. I don't think he wired 220. There are three wires in Romex, two for the circuit and one for ground. I think it's likely he attached one hot lead and the grounding wire to his outlet. Plug in and the B&K completes the circuit and BOOM a short to ground right through the amp... now that's a power spike! :eek:

Not likely....although not wired to code, hot on one side and ground on the other should technically work. If you ever pay attention to your breaker box, the neutral bus is jumpered to the ground bus, so in essence, the neutral line (white) can be used as a ground. I know this is true because I did an extensive wiring project in my sisters old house (circa 1945) and replaced a few two pronged outlets with 3 pronged outlets so she could use a microwave, etc.... Since the house predated 3 conductor Romex (some nasty stuff wrapped in a felt cloth wrap covered in what looked like wax and tar but still had black and white conductors inside) Anyway, I just ran a jumper line between the ground tap and the neutral line at the outlet.) Once again, not up to todays code, but certainly acceptable for "old work".

F1nut

03-08-2003, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by polkatese
- checked with one certified electrician co. and they want $29.95 to come and estimate, but it will be applied to the actual work if I hire him to do the work.

That is a sound business practice and is actually the sign of a first rate company. To start with, it generally weeds out someone who isn't serious. Time is money and you're asking a highly skilled person for his time, to pay him for that is only fair. When a company doesn't charge for an estimate it is ususally because they see it as a way to get business, so why do they need business, could it be because they aren't any good? If you take your car into the shop and then decide not to have the work done, they will charge you for their time. You either pay it or you won't get your car back and you brought it to them! Why do people (and I'm in no way picking on you polkatese) think that a service business is suppose to give free estimates??? I own a "service business" and you're damn right, I charge for estimates (alot more than the above company) and I've got more business than I can handle.

Steps off his soapbox......

There are a few other options to getting clean power, perhaps more costly, but options none the less. PS Audio has a Ultimate Outlet that plugs into an exisiting outlet and will reduce A/C line noise by 40db or 100x reduction in noise. They also have three different Power Plants that generate their own balanced A/C, totally free of artifacts plus provide surge/spike protection.

polkatese

03-08-2003, 01:21 AM

F1Nut,
that's a fair statement, and I don't mind paying for the fee if I am sure of this company's reputation. The problem is that I picked their name from the web, with no referral from anybody. I am also in the service business, and in my line of work, we spend so much time "scoping" the customer requirements at no cost. We look at those time as investment, towards building relationships and show our qualifications, and give the customers an opportunity to assess our credentials. We win some and lose some, it's the cost of doing business. Just my perspective...

I did explore the ultimate outlet options, boy, you are right, they are pricy ($300-$400). Thanks for your help, though. I was reading the PS Audio writeup on their power port, it is interesting that they don't mention (or I might missed it somewhere) of running the dedicated line. Reading it gave me the impressions that replacing the outlet alone would be a big enough improvement, which I am anxiously waiting for the shipment of those power port to experience it myself....

F1nut

03-08-2003, 01:31 AM

I respect your perspective and wonder what your company's bottom line would be if they started charging for those estimates, could be interesting.......

You're right about PS, they don't mention it anywhere. Since I did both at the same time, I can't comment on it. They do imply a improvement just by changing the outlet.....hmmmm, maybe I'll give them a call.

dorokusai

03-08-2003, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by F1nut
dorokusai,

It's the store on the corner of 97 and 650. As my neighbor stated to me when I moved here, "Man, you haven't lived until you've had a Sunshine burger." If you want to hook up and have a burger/ talk some audio, drop me a email at jvrestore@aol.com.

F1

Yea, that sounds great, Ill email you.

F1nut

03-08-2003, 01:44 AM

Sounds good.

polkatese

03-12-2003, 05:18 PM

Guys,
get quoted $350 for the conduit, 20 amps, 12 gauge wire, and breaker run, thru the base of the house, about 25 ft run (thanks Tour for suggesting this). They suggested PVC conduit run since it will have the benefit of a dedicated ground run from the breaker. I read somewhere suggesting a metal conduit for better RF rejection. Can anybody enlighten me on the pros and cons of the conduit type? thanks a bunch...

Ron-P

03-12-2003, 05:48 PM

If the run is on the exterior it must be PVC, interior runs can be either PVC or metal.

Is that $350 for one or two outlets? Are you sure this is something you cannot do yourself, it's very, very easy and your costs will be minimal. The conduit and 12g wire is cheap, depending on the breaker type they can range from $20 up to $60/ea. You could do it all yourself for $50 or less per breaker.

Peace Out~:D

polkatese

03-12-2003, 06:06 PM

Ron,
I am tempted to say I might be able to figure it out myself, but I am not sure if I want to. The company that will do this is the same one who install all the wiring on the house, so I am hoping they have the schematic and knows what they are doing, more than I do. I also want to make sure it is a clean job since it will be visible from the outside. The quote is for two outlets.

goingganzo

03-12-2003, 11:25 PM

i instaled my own deticated line. run line. 10/12 gauge. hook up oultet. push wire into box. hool the black ti breaker and then hook white/ground to comon in box. install breaker. turn on. just make sure you tirn off the master breaker at top with will turn off the hot rails. aka black. also test for power befor begening.

running cabble. get a snake and a long drill bit bigger than cabble. if you have drywall up you just have to run the wire. if exposed you need staples. and check what code is your area.

Jargan04

03-15-2003, 11:52 PM

I also did my own. I ran 2 12 gauge romex lines to my room. One for my my HT, and the other to my computer area. I was not that hard at all. But I have a 1 story house. Took about 2 hours all said and done. Cost me about $50 I think.

polkatese

03-21-2003, 07:02 PM

F1,
I just got shipment of the PS Power port and the bottom outlet labeled Video, is that meant to say that it has additional wiring to improve the video quality? or hype? I am looking forward to have this installed tomorrow....can't wait

F1nut

03-21-2003, 07:34 PM

Hmmm.....all mine says is AV Grade, but I'm positive that there isn't a difference between the top and bottom. You should notice an improvement on your audio or video regardless of which port you use.

polkatese

03-21-2003, 08:11 PM

thanks, chief!

F1nut

03-21-2003, 08:19 PM

Cool, I think you'll be very pleased with the results of the dedicated and power port combo.

polkatese

03-21-2003, 08:35 PM

yeah, and I was advised by a trusted dealer to avoid expensive power conditioners and go with the midline (HTS3600 or Panamax 5300) if I still think I need one AFTER I put in the dedicated outlet and PS powerport. So, I am looking forward to this...I have a cheapo HTS800 that will (hopefully) protect me from surges for the time being, and perhaps Pana 5300 in the near future.

mantis

03-21-2003, 10:21 PM

polkatese,
after all the upgrades and tweaking,I think the power conditioner advise you uptained is false.They make a big difference in overall sound quality and picture quality.It's funny how cleaner power makes a difference.Maybe not funny but I think you got me here.
I have heard nothing but great things form other employees and listening myself with the Monster HTPS700 which is there reference replacement for mine(hts5000)They unit makes a very noticable difference even compared to mine.I wouldn't short cut here my man.Get your search on,read about them and figure out if it's the right thing to do with your system.I feel it is the way to go as I plan on using one myself.I'm gonna mate mine with the avs2000 for pure power..................

polkatese

03-21-2003, 10:32 PM

Dan,
thanks for input. What I might do, once the outlet is complete, I will find b&m that carry Pana line, take home 5300 and 5510, and compare the two, and see if I can quantify the value of price difference. 5300 is about $450 and 5510 is $999...

mantis

03-21-2003, 10:38 PM

Thats not bad polkatese,the Monster is 1299.99 HTPS7000.

polkatese

03-21-2003, 10:42 PM

yes, but NO detachable powercord :p on the Monster...you know how I felt about powercords :D

mantis

03-21-2003, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by polkatese
yes, but NO detachable powercord :p on the Monster...you know how I felt about powercords :D

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

You should stop and take a look at the one they Installed to it...........my god:D

F1nut

03-21-2003, 10:52 PM

I would consider one of the PS Audio power plants over the Monster, not sure about the Panamax stuff. PS units actually regenerate the A/C. Oh yeah, comes with detachable power cord.

mantis

03-21-2003, 10:54 PM

you going to temp polkatese with that,put a pic up and see him drool..............

polkatese

03-21-2003, 10:55 PM

I saw it, massive cord, there is no question it's great cable...

mantis

03-21-2003, 10:56 PM

it's got a big thick long cord on it.Massive to say the least.

F1nut

03-21-2003, 11:52 PM

Ok Dan, here you go.....

F1nut

03-22-2003, 12:00 AM

I can't get a larger pic, so here's a link.

edit: Ok, let's try this link. www.psaudio.com

polkatese

03-22-2003, 12:08 AM

Fi,
I saw that too (btw, your link doesn't seem to work) it looks great, and priced great too...

mantis

03-22-2003, 08:18 AM

F1nut,
beautiful simply beautiful.

Tour2ma

03-22-2003, 12:34 PM

Link works now... but somebody has to explain to me how the P-500 is going to help. At "Up to 500 Watts of pure power" our multichannel amps would suck it dry in no time...
Unless you're talking only "cleaning up" the AVP's and sources' power, I just don't see the application.
http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/fragend/confused-smiley-013.gif

So show me the light...
http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/linie/smiley-linie-016.gif

F1nut

03-22-2003, 12:43 PM

Jeez, I don't know........email PS.

polkatese

03-22-2003, 12:43 PM

Tour,
you're DA man on emoticon!

polkatese

03-23-2003, 09:57 PM

All,
Project completed! 2 dedicated 20 amps, 12 gauge lines and breakers installed, along with PS Power port. The guy did a very clean job, with EMT conduit goes on the base of the house. Thanks all for the input, feedback, comments, and insights. On to the next project......

TonyPTX

03-23-2003, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by polkatese
All,
Project completed! 2 dedicated 20 amps, 12 gauge lines and breakers installed, along with PS Power port. The guy did a very clean job, with EMT conduit goes on the base of the house. Thanks all for the input, feedback, comments, and insights. On to the next project......

Final cost?.....

polkatese

03-23-2003, 10:20 PM

Tony,
let's see, 6 hours of labors, EMT conduit, 2X20A breakers, flex, connectors, t-junctions, and 12 gauges came to $425. 2 PS power ports $120 (Including taxes and shipping)....$545 Total. Not cheap, but it's a clean job!

How's your 1055? review please.....

mantis

03-23-2003, 10:54 PM

So polkatese,
waiting on your review as well.Lets hear one man......you did an aweful lot to your system as of late.Lets get into some then and now stuff.Like to hear how the entire system is responding to all these new toys..........

polkatese

03-23-2003, 11:09 PM

Dan,
this project falls under Home Improvement, so it is not on the toys' list :D well, except may be the power ports. I really like the power port, it's well made, very tight grip, and looks great. I haven't really had a chance to sit and check the system, just finished them a couple hours ago. With the new dedicated outlet, I plug the Rotel directly to the wall, bypassing the HTS, I want to see if there is going to be any difference. Hopefully the next couple days I get a chance to check it. You know, one of the benefit of the detachable OEM power cord, I was able to dissamble the marinco plug, slide the cable thru the tight opening behind the wall unit, and reassemble it. So, now I am ready to go with the Panamax, love it! .....

mantis

03-23-2003, 11:33 PM

Cool dude but I would still love to read a DETAILED review of your overall system ,where it came from and where it is today....or then.And maybe a future outlook.......your system is nice.....

Hey on a side note,you personally killed my entire home theater project.The Lsi7's are in my soul deeply and I want nothing more then to give them a run for the spotlight show in the fromt of my theater and move the Lsi15's to 2 channel duty only.
With my theater being front projector and screen,Hanging the front 3 on the wall has many advantages.I was considering doing this with Sonus Faber all Walls,they all hang on the wall.Cool as shit.
I'm buying all my speakers soon so I will get a sample of how they do upfront with the B&K..........I'm juiced to demo and review them.........this should make for a good demo.If it fails I will personally blame you........waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

polkatese

03-23-2003, 11:35 PM

Dan,
quick question on the REL, the +12 db rca input, what is it for? I've been using the 0 db, let me please. Thanks, fh

mantis

03-23-2003, 11:40 PM

It's exactly what it says a 12db boost input.No need to use it.I don't use it.I always use the 0db input.

polkatese

03-23-2003, 11:43 PM

Dan,
he he he...., that would be a drastic change to your future HT system, eh...
yes, you can blame it on me, and better yet, if it fails, send your LSi 7 to me, I will reluctantly accept the shipment. Hell, I was now thinking that for surround back, a pair of RM3000 should be enough. I think it would be a disgrace to put any of the LSi in the back, a waste of great speaker to do meager duty of conveying flying bullets from left to right? I don't think so...

mantis

03-23-2003, 11:47 PM

No I don't look at it like that at all man.Surroundback will open up in the future.The 7's will match the Lsi system perfectly.The better speakers up front,the better the rears have to become......chain of events.....but I get what your saying.One of the small reasons I didn't go with the Lsi9's for surroundback.Not wall hangable was the biggest thing.I didn't want to have toi build shelves in my theaterroom.I wasn't into that.
I can't wait to try them out for fronts............

polkatese

03-23-2003, 11:56 PM

Got it....btw, I am really diggin' 9 for two channels now. Before long, with the exception of the 25, I might have a complete LSi line up....yes, I need help...also, B&K might be in the very near future.

polkatese

03-23-2003, 11:58 PM

thanks on the REL answer, I am just curious today, since I unhooked the cabling, and saw that input...

mantis

03-23-2003, 11:59 PM

Isn't it sick...It's all I think about all the time everyday.I also will own the entire Lsi line except the Lsi25's.....and who knows maybe one day......
B&K huh...well you'll like the sound quality.I think they got a tad bit better sweatness over Rotel in midrange.I think Rotel might have the last word in High detail,but I bought some Kimber Kable Hero's and brought out some high end detail I felt I lost......it's a complete package when building a system....Matching everything just right.......Mantis theory and all.....you know........

mantis

03-24-2003, 12:00 AM

check that out man I'm now a polk expert..........how did that happen?????????

mantis

03-24-2003, 12:01 AM

shit dude with a title like that,I better get my learn on.......Brush up on polk's history and such,older models,future plans.......thats alot to put on a guys shoulders.waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

mantis

03-24-2003, 12:03 AM

The 9's I will own for the sake of all the fuss over them I have been reading.I demo'd them when I bought my 15's and thought they where a lesser of a speaker not to mention I wasn't in the market for bookshelves.Gald to see your digging them.......Do I feel a 9 vs the 15 shootout coming?????

polkatese

03-24-2003, 12:14 AM

I did a quick 9/15 shoot out, the low end it loose some, mid and high almost carbon copy. With a good sub, one can replicate the 15 using 9.

You got me to think, B&K vs. Rotel, are you sure Rotel's high is better than B&K?

Here is a quiz on B&K for you, 507 has 150 wpc @ 8 ohm, 185 wpc @ 4 ohm, AV125.7 has 125 wpc @ 8 ohm, 185 wpc @ 4 ohm...how can that be if 507=ref50 + av125.7?

polkatese

03-24-2003, 12:22 AM

This is just in: both my wife and 8 years old son confirms that the picture quality on the PE has noticeably improved (with the dedicated line and PS power port). Details and brightness are the two improvement mentioned, I have DirecTv Sat. Stay tuned for more review....

mantis

03-24-2003, 08:07 AM

polkatese,
You got me to think, B&K vs. Rotel, are you sure Rotel's high is better than B&K?
Good question.My results are when comparing my seperates vs the avr307.It's very slight.The Rotel has a touch better detail on cymbols,hi hats have a slighty sharper ring.It's not a night and day thing here.It's slight.
When I bought the KimberKable Hero's,this slight advantage Rotel had was gone.The Sizzle as I like to call it was there allday.The Rotel seperates where connected together with Transparent Musiclinks all the way threw.The B&K also used Transparent musiclinks from the cd player.
To tell you the truth man,I couldn't be happier with B&K's sound quality.They have a very warm midrange and sloid bottom end.High's are completely detailed,just like Rotels.They both sound different overall.I perfer the sound of the B&K better then Rotels.Rotel is great sounding gear,I love it to death but B&K has a slight advantage in my ear.I have conducted the test a couple times now to be sure.Since I own both,I didn't favor one over the other with pride of ownersip or anything like that.My sound quality is very important to me,so picking the best one forgetting about name was key for me....in the end I choose B&K.

Here is a quiz on B&K for you, 507 has 150 wpc @ 8 ohm, 185 wpc @ 4 ohm, AV125.7 has 125 wpc @ 8 ohm, 185 wpc @ 4 ohm...how can that be if 507=ref50 + av125.7?
I can't answer that for sure but I can however findout.I assume B&K runs the av125.7 alittle I will call it AMPED UP when installing it in the chassis of the avr507.I'm not exactly sure if thats the correct amp inside.I was told it is a ST series amp.But it's a good question.I will find out today.

Glad to hear your improving your system with noticable results.I'll be waiting for a FULL review man.You have alot to tell with your current adventures.Alot of which I will be embarking myself.

polkatese

03-24-2003, 11:02 AM

Dan,
thanks for your response, do let me know what you find out on the quiz...:-)

liv4fam

03-24-2003, 06:39 PM

polkatese,
it's Dan(I'm at work) .The B&K avr507 has it's own amps internally.There is no exact external amp offered by B&K.They are also ST series internal amps with loads of current to drive 4 ohm load speakers full range at reference levels.....ALLDAY.
dUDE i'LL GET MORE INFO IF YOU NEED IT.....

Waiting of your FULL review of your system......................and waiting dude.

mantis

03-24-2003, 10:41 PM

Thats all I got for now man.......

polkatese

03-24-2003, 11:11 PM

Dan,
thanks for checking that out for me...so you think 507 amp section is more beefed up compared to av125.7?

polkatese

03-24-2003, 11:22 PM

Dan,
I will review my system changes this week, have to be in Miami tomorrow thru Friday....

mantis

03-25-2003, 07:41 AM

polkatese,
the av125.7 isn't the same amp section.The avr507 has more watts in a 8 ohm load but shares the same watts in a 4 ohm at 185.When I spoke to B&K,they told me that the amp section is different.
Dude if your going to go seperates over the mighty avr507,then go reference amps.They have the most current and power overall with the same sound quality.

Sumflow

03-25-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Rainy Southern California
If I hire an electrician, how much is this going to cost (ballpark is fine), and more importantly, what does he has to do? I am assuming is not as simple as running a dedicated line from the main switchboard to the wall outlet?>good question, your looking at about 100 bucks. <

>Mantis, I'm assuming your estimate is labor only? <

>I'd guess a job like such (done properly and professionally) would take 2-3 hours. <

My Electrician says the major unforeseen, unexpected increase in costs will come from getting from point A to point B. ;)

polkatese

03-26-2003, 12:37 PM

Dan,
ref 50 and Sherbourn 7/2100 (was also in the running) are out of the question due to their sizes. Yes, they are big, beast, and powerful (massive and heavy), weigh up to 115 lbs (Sherbourne), with its own dedicated toroidal ps for EACH channel. Awesome products, and yet, a complete overkill and space nightmare for me right now. AV125.7 is JUST Right, size, amplification, and look..

mantis

03-26-2003, 08:56 PM

why not go avr507?

polkatese

03-26-2003, 10:21 PM

The old separates vs. receiver thing, and not to mention I am keeping the Rotel. So, don't need two receivers 8>)

mantis

03-27-2003, 07:53 AM

Gotcha

Tour2ma

03-27-2003, 12:10 PM

Sunfire, anyone?

mantis

03-27-2003, 08:27 PM

Naaaaaaaaaaa it's all about B&K and Rotel on this thead man.....nice try.

But feel free to start a thead.........Sunfire we will talk about

Tour2ma

03-28-2003, 12:57 AM

Just messin' with Polka's head... but then you knew that...
http://www.clicksmilie.de/sammlung/teufel/devil-smiley-006.gif

polkatese

03-28-2003, 05:58 AM

yeah, Tour, nice try! SUN what?

polkatese

03-29-2003, 01:48 PM

Dan and others,
As promised, a quick review of the impact of dedicated outlet on my system. As I mentioned, last week I had an electrician installed a dedicated two 20 amps outlets, along with PS Audio power ports for the REL Storm III and the A/V gears. This what I noticed:

Gears:
please check system showcase

Video: noticable increase of brightness, details, and black level. Improvement in overall color saturations (fleshtone)

Audio: noticable increase of bass, tightness (with the REL especially), a tad better soundstage, channel separation (on 2 channels)

Next plan: completing 7.1 wiring and setup

ps: any suggestion on the BEST showcase of 7.1/6.1 movies for testing of surround back contents? thanks

F1nut

03-29-2003, 03:46 PM

polkatese,

Glad to see you're enjoying the results, which are exactly what I noticed, but also thought the detail improved and the background became blacker. It is money well spent.

polkatese

03-29-2003, 04:02 PM

F1,
yes, thanks to you on the power port suggestion....hey, I actually could see CNN's Heidi face much better :p she is such a beaut..hmmm

mantis

03-29-2003, 10:22 PM

Very cool.
Clean power equals better performance.I love it.

polkatese

03-29-2003, 10:28 PM

Dan,
question: the B&K software for ref50, is that meant to configure parameters from pc and download the settings to the unit? thanks,

mantis

03-30-2003, 07:21 AM

Yes,
you can connect the B&K's preamp (or receiver) to a network or straight from a PC.This software (B&Ksuite) is designed for the experienced user (more for Installer man) to configure the settings and save presets and such.You also can control the unit via rs232.The rs232 is a 2 way port unlike most others on the market.It can be updated via software to latest versions.
B&K's preamp section is one of the most if not the most flexible I have ever seen.It full of cool things you can do.True dual zone is also nice.
We don't use it often on the job.But It's nice to beable to setup someones setting before you get to the job,you just download all the setting into the preamp and only thing's left to do is distance and speaker levels(you can set these up,but without being in the room prior to Install,theres no way of knowing the correct setting).
Well I assume you get the Idea.
You know the New remote is a fantastic piece.It's fully programmable and custom programed from the computer as well.
I'm all about Pronto except the tsu500 and I really don't care for the new tsu300 as of yeat(still goofing around with it,it's new),butthis new remote which is also offered as the MX700 it just awesome.The more I goof around with it,the more I like it.For people who don't care for touch screens and perfer hard buttons,this is the one.When I get my avr307 upgraded,There offering the remote as well,I plan on fully programming it and see if I like it better then my current Pronto(tsu1000).If It works out the way I want it 2,then I might skip out on buying the new Ipronto tsu6400,which is pretty badass.