Surge protector/suppressor or conditioner?

[kawizx9r]

So, I've been reading the past few days on surge protectors, suppressors, and power conditioners. I've done some research and looked through several other forums, and I've pretty much made up my mind on what I want but I am not sure with what make/brand I should choose and what people might recommend. As far as I know, power here seems pretty stable, no "popping, etc" coming from any of my equipment, tv's, computers or anything. I'm not looking for something to "clean" my signal, just something to offer me piece of mind without breaking the bank, and protect my investment from spikes/surges. I would like something with A/C clipping (some units offer AC CL. at 140 volts, others at 330 volts but why so high if equipment can be damaged at a much lower voltage than 300?), and also I would like to have 6 outlets. I just moved out here to Chicago about 4 months ago so I haven't lived through all the seasons and don't know exactly what to expect during heavy raining seasons. We did experience alot of nasty thunderstorms since but I simply unplugged my gear during that time.

[kawizx9r]

No one?...

[megasat16]

So, I've been reading the past few days on surge protectors, suppressors, and power conditioners. I've done some research and looked through several other forums, and I've pretty much made up my mind on what I want but I am not sure with what make/brand I should choose and what people might recommend. As far as I know, power here seems pretty stable, no "popping, etc" coming from any of my equipment, tv's, computers or anything. I'm not looking for something to "clean" my signal, just something to offer me piece of mind without breaking the bank, and protect my investment from spikes/surges. I would like something with A/C clipping (some units offer AC CL. at 140 volts, others at 330 volts but why so high if equipment can be damaged at a much lower voltage than 300?), and also I would like to have 6 outlets. I just moved out here to Chicago about 4 months ago so I haven't lived through all the seasons and don't know exactly what to expect during heavy raining seasons. We did experience alot of nasty thunderstorms since but I simply unplugged my gear during that time.

At bare minimum, you want to have Surge Protector for all your equipments for your AC line. It's just that 140V or anything higher will most likely cause a serious damage to the equipments that is designed to be used with 110/120V AC line.

I am not sure what you mean with "I would like something with A/C clipping (some units offer AC CL. at 140 volts, others at 330 volts but why so high if equipment can be damaged at a much lower voltage than 300?)"???

Power Line Conditioners / Isolation Transformer is more preferable for more expensive equipments such as LCD / Plasma TV. If you are thinking to get Power Line Conditioners for an AVR / Audio Amplifier, you need to make sure the continuous power ratings it can supply for each outlet meets or exceeds the maximum power (current) draw from AVR / Amplifier.

Not all UPS designed for Home Computer use may not be suitable for power amplifiers. You need to check with Manufacturer or with others in forum to make sure they'll work for you.

[kawizx9r]

That or "voltage clamping"
Apparently it stops current from going to your equipment at certain voltages that can damage equipment. Saying this, I'm not referring necessarily to a spike/surge although one might argue it's the same thing. As I was reading, sometimes voltages can "spike" enough to damage equipment but not to the point where it will trip a surge protector, guess that just depends on the surge protector itself.....but many products emphasize the fact that it has built in "voltage clamping" or "a/c clipping." Just trying to educate myself so I can make a smart buy without spending alot, or buying said-product due to market hype.

[megasat16]

I see what you mean. Yes, some spikes have large Voltage but not enough current and very short moment so it'll likely not cause any damage. It depends on the design of each surge protector how long it will take till the surge protector trips based on current threshold with the associated voltage spike. But normally, 140V is lethal enough to trip the surge protector. I want to make sure it trips other than it doesn't trip.

The tipping response time may vary based on each manufacturer but I want the one with fastest response time.

[thuffman03]

I would say power conditioner becuase most conditioners have surge protection in them and now a days you are more likely to get a brown out than a spike. Well unless lightning hits near your house or just down the line. There is no protection for 1.21 Gigawatts of power. LOL

[kawizx9r]

Yeah, I've seen some with built in some without. I mean a power conditioner (with built in surge protection) won't hurt seeing as I plan on keeping it for awhile, long enough to have already moved out of Chicago and somewhere where I MIGHT need it. Any recommendations now as far as brand/make?

[thuffman03]

I have only had one power conditioner so far. It is a Monster HTS 3500 MKII. No issues with it yet. I got it used off of ebay. I have done some reseach and found if you have the $$$ Tripp Lite seems to be a good choice. You really have to watch and find out what type of conditioner you need. Most of the time sine wave is what you need but my friend found a DAC that wanted a digital wave before it would work.

[AudioGenics]

made me think about what is currently available in the way of line conditioning
ie power conditioners, surge suppressor, protectors, fuses, circuit breakers, etc.

I would buy something immediately depending on the weight of the wallet and then have the power monitored as long as possible to see what anomolies shows up that potentially will affect the equipment and ultimately the sound

[rayslifecycle]

http://www.panamax.com/Products/Floor-Models/M8-HT.aspx

I got mine for around 80 bucks and it works great - Power in Maryland is so so dirty........it was really important to protect my equipment.

There is a break-in period that took me a few weeks to get through but one day I was listening and it sounded like my world opened up and focused all at the same time.

I was never a believer in "conditioning power" till I came to this forum - but even my wife noticed when the break in period was over and she asked - "what did you do? it sounds great!" and the only thing I had done was purchase this unit a few weeks before......I had never heard of electronic breakin before that - but I am pretty sure that is the phenomenon we experienced.

I think this conditioner is the bare minimum - and I am sure that the higher end rack mounted offerings with digital readouts on the front work better - but for now - I am quite happy.

[megasat16]

Yeah, I've seen some with built in some without. I mean a power conditioner (with built in surge protection) won't hurt seeing as I plan on keeping it for awhile, long enough to have already moved out of Chicago and somewhere where I MIGHT need it. Any recommendations now as far as brand/make?

PS Audio Power Plant or Monster AVS2000 Signature Series.

I have both AVS2000 Signature Series and HTPS-5100MKII. My power line is really clean so I removed them and used a surge protector only.

All Well Known Surge Protector will have some kind of built in Surge Suppression built in for high voltage spikes (with very small current and very short momentary) so it doesn't matter what you get it.

[heiney9]

I vote for both. Really no reason to have to choose one over the other, many competent brands sell both in one unit.

H9

[westom]

That or "voltage clamping"
Apparently it stops current from going to your equipment at certain voltages that can damage equipment. Saying this, I'm not referring necessarily to a spike/surge although one might argue it's the same thing. As I was reading, sometimes voltages can "spike" enough to damage equipment but not to the point where it will trip a surge protector, ...
1) Your voltages typically are not destructive. 120 volt electronics even in 1970 would meet a standard that says no damage below 600 volts. Some appliances today withstand significantly more without damage.

2) What trips? No protection is provided by tripping (disconnecting). But that myth is popular when promoting protectors that do not protect from typically destructive surges.

3) Destructive surges are currents. Voltage only exists when something tries to stop that surge. Protection is about 'diverting' a surge so that no voltage exists. Current times voltage - if voltage is near zero, then destructive energy is near zero. That is what surge protection is. To divert (connect) that energy to what really provides protection - earth ground.

So what happens if a protector works by 'tripping'? Voltage increases as necessary to blow through. Blocking only means more voltage - higher destructive energy. Effective protection means surge energy is harmlessly absorbed elsewhere. Effective protection means asking where energy dissipated.

4) A surge absorbed harmlessly in earth means no electronics damage - to anything. When surge damage must never happen, 'diverting' has been the solution for over 100 years. But many have been sold on a magic box that will somehow trip, absorb, or make surges just disappear. Will somehow stop what three miles of sky could not. Not effective protector does that.

Now let's add the numbers. How many hundred joules? So that hundreds of joules protector will somehow absorb a surge of hundred of thousands of joules? Obviously not. That absorbing is what a 'magic box' solution is supposed to do.

5) What does your cited protector see when the surge approaches electronics? Current flowing in the same directly on both sides of the protector means the protector never sees a voltage. Meanwhile that surge continues on, destructively, through electronics.

6) When electronics damage does not happen, a surge is earthed before entering a building. In high reliability facilities, the protector is as close to earth as possible. To make protection even better, the protector may be located up to 50 meters distant from electronics. Then the facility may suffer about 100 surges with each thunderstorm - and no damage.

Effective protection means normal operation without damage during every thunderstorm. That means a direct lightning strike does not even damage the protector. That means only one 'whole house' protector AND the most critical component necessary in every protection 'system' - single point earth ground. Grounding that must both meet and exceed post 1990 electric codes.

[digitalvideo]

I was told on another thread that a 'Power regenerator' is more important than a 'power conditioner'. They recommended a Audiophile APS regenerator. But if I wanted to go with a conditioner they recommended the Balanced Power Technology BPT system.

[westom]

I was told on another thread that a 'Power regenerator' is more important than a 'power conditioner'. They recommended a Audiophile APS regenerator.
Anything a typical power conditoner will due must already exist in the electronic's power supply. Conditioning will only be a good as the best device. To have better conditioned power means something significantly larger such as series filters from Zerosurge, Brickwall, etc.

Appreciate how many times power is filtered and changed. From low voltages to over 300 volts. From AC, to DC, to radio frequency, and back to DC. Between each change is more filters. One function of a power supply is significant conditioning. Most power conditioners do less than what is routinely accomplished inside that supply.

[digitalvideo]

Anything a typical power conditoner will due must already exist in the electronic's power supply. Conditioning will only be a good as the best device. To have better conditioned power means something significantly larger such as series filters from Zerosurge, Brickwall, etc.

Appreciate how many times power is filtered and changed. From low voltages to over 300 volts. From AC, to DC, to radio frequency, and back to DC. Between each change is more filters. One function of a power supply is significant conditioning. Most power conditioners do less than what is routinely accomplished inside that supply.

So in lamens terms you think power regenerators are superior to power conditioners?

[westom]

So in lamens terms you think power regenerators are superior to power conditioners? In layman's terms, if you need either, then why did you spend so much on electronics with such a crappy power supply? Anything that those magic solutions would do is supposed to already be inside the power supply.

If you need more, then the solution is much larger and many times more expensive than the supply.

No better answer is possible without long list of specifications for that device. A subjective 'which is better' is only an answer for the naive. Always have spec numbers. And always know what it is that must be solved. I do not even see that. I only see a completely subjective assumption that all anomalies are the same and that one device will cure all. Also described by others as snake oil.