why Direct is better than Stereo?

[SivaNevets]

theres a noticeable difference in sound quality between "Direct" and "Stereo" mode from my Denon 789 receiver. Direct is more natural, smooth, but i cant use the subwoofer. With Stereo i can use the sub but the sound quality is more edgy and theres disturbing sibilence(:D).

why i cant just use the subwoofer with the direct mode? why are these 2 so different?

[concealer404]

Stereo mode incorporates processing by your Denon. It handles the split between the mains and the subwoofer. With direct, it's simply a direct pass through, signal isn't touched from your source to the speakers. The receiver simply amplifies the existing signal, and doesn't mess with it.

[BlueFox]

Run your sub off the front pre-amp output jacks.

[Conradicles]

Or...don't use the sub and use direct.

[SivaNevets]

thx...i guess my soundcard and dac has already mess up with the signal enough..
and BlueFox, can u be more specific? my avr has no pre-out

[BlueFox]

thx...i guess my soundcard and dac has already mess up with the signal enough..
and BlueFox, can u be more specific? my avr has no pre-out

Then I guess that option is out. Does you sub support direct wiring to the speakers. That is, you run the L/R speaker wire to the L/R speaker in posts on the sub, and then run the L/R speaker wire from the speaker out posts on the sub to the speakers. Some say that is the best way to wire a sub, but it is extra work.

[comfortablycurt]

When I'm listening to music on my AVR, it's almost always on direct.

It bypasses all of the video processing circuitry and leaves the signal untouched...it's a lot more natural sounding. Not having the sub can be a drawback, but my speakers produce enough bass for my tastes anyway. With smaller speakers, I could see the lack of a sub being a bigger drawback.

[SivaNevets]

Im using psw10 and rti6, it hink the sub supports direct wiring. Ill give it a try tomorrow.
So i have to use the crossover button from sub now right?
thanks

[comfortablycurt]

Im using psw10 and rti6, it hink the sub supports direct wiring. Ill give it a try tomorrow.
So i have to use the crossover button from sub now right?
thanks

Yes, the PSW10 supports speaker level connection.

You'll have to use the crossover on the sub then.

[John K.]

Siva, if your 789 is set and operating correctly there shouldn't be a "disturbing sibilance" on the Stereo setting as compared with Direct. Direct, as is relevant here, bypasses the tone control circuitry, but even in Stereo, if the tone controls are set at the center point, there shouldn't be the treble emphasis which would sound sibilant at times. So, are you sure that the treble tone control isn't set at an increased level? If it's not, there's a possibility that on your particular 789 the treble is being boosted even at the center setting. You might try a little treble cut when in Stereo to see if this improves matters.

Having said all that, you can use the sub even in Direct mode if you set your RTi6s "Large" and set the sub to "LFE+Mains", which allows it to also play bass from the main channels, along with the RTi6s which are playing full-range, including the bass.

[Knucklehead]

Yes, the PSW10 supports speaker level connection.

You'll have to use the crossover on the sub then.

Ok im a little confused,(which isnt hard to do). If you use the RCA connection for your subs, is the crossover on the sub still active?

[jimmydep]

Ok im a little confused,(which isnt hard to do). If you use the RCA connection for your subs, is the crossover on the sub still active?

When using the LFE input on the sub you bypass sub's the internal Low Pass Filter and use the crossover on the receiver.


Jimmy

[thsmith]

My Denon 2808 has an option for the sub in Direct mode.

[jimmydep]

My Denon 2808 has an option for the sub in Direct mode.


I don't think my Yammi 665 has that option, when you use the direct mode the sub is disabled........although that's a nice option to have.

Are you using the LFE output on the receiver???


Jimmy

[nguyendot]

If it has an option, it's not really direct is it? To pull a subwoofer signal it has to process it in some way.

[AudioGenics]

my take is for direct

[jimmydep]

If it has an option, it's not really direct is it? To pull a subwoofer signal it has to process it in some way.

I agree with you, but I find in direct mode the low end is just a tad light.

[Knucklehead]

When using the LFE input on the sub you bypass sub's the internal Low Pass Filter and use the crossover on the receiver.


Jimmy

Ok thanks, thats what I was thinking.

[Pauly]

+1 on the Direct. Mine has Direct and Pure Direct. Always on Pure Direct.

[TECHNOKID]

SivaNevets, you should set your subwoofer to both LFE ("A") and R & L ("B") speaker connections (making sure you set your crossover appropriately). This will allow your receiver to control what is sent to the sub LFE during movies and will allow Bass through your subwoofer during direct playback through the speaker and crossover connections of your subwoofer.

Most subwoofer uses their Xo while connected on the speaker connections and very rarely during LFE use since the AVR already controls such.

Cheers!
TK

[mmadden28]

If it has an option, it's not really direct is it? To pull a subwoofer signal it has to process it in some way.

Perhaps its just an internally split signal where both the Mains and sub still get a full range signal.

[thsmith]

I don't think my Yammi 665 has that option, when you use the direct mode the sub is disabled........although that's a nice option to have.

Are you using the LFE output on the receiver???


Jimmy

I use LFE for movies not 2 channel music although it is an option.

[nguyendot]

Perhaps its just an internally split signal where both the Mains and sub still get a full range signal.

An internal analog split?

That's what I find hard to believe.

[Erik Tracy]

SivaNevets, you should set your subwoofer to both LFE ("A") and R & L ("B") speaker connections (making sure you set your crossover appropriately). This will allow your receiver to control what is sent to the sub LFE during movies and will allow Bass through your subwoofer during direct playback through the speaker and crossover connections of your subwoofer.

Most subwoofer uses their Xo while connected on the speaker connections and very rarely during LFE use since the AVR already controls such.

Cheers!
TK

How would this work?

Both LFE and pre-outs would be 'active' at the same time if both were connected at the same time to the sub.

Unless the sub has circuitry to 'cut off' one of the inputs, then both signals will be sent to the sub. When I contacted Epik about my sub, I was told by Chad that the sub would 'sum' both signals.

I do have two sets of cables from my sub when I want to listen in Pure Direct or watch movies, but it requires a manual swapping of cables between "music/Pure Direct" and "LFE/movies".

If I want to watch movies, then I have my sub connected to the LFE/sub out on my AVR....fronts=small (cuz of the scary LFE effects to my bookshelves) and the AVR xover set to 80Hz. The xover on the sub is bypassed and all is good for movies.

For serious music, I have a different memory configuration saved in my AVR for Pure Direct, fronts=Large, sub=off, and the sub is connected via L/R RCA pre-outs. I then use the sub xover to fine tune the xover freq to get the sub nicely blended with my fronts.

Some don't like to have a sub running when going 'old school' for 2-channel listening, but I think for my system, I get a pretty good blending of sub and bookshelves in hooking up my sub this way.

It does require manually swapping cables - but I've learned to deal with it and enjoy the flexibility.

I'm too poor to get a preamp with HT bypass.

I guess some AVRs might have analog bass management??? This would be the ONLY way I can think of to have the sub on in Pure Direct?

ymmv...

[TECHNOKID]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmadden28
Perhaps its just an internally split signal where both the Mains and sub still get a full range signal.

Originally Posted by nguyendot
An internal analog split?

That's what I find hard to believe.Nothing really hard to believe there. AVR today uses a lot of processing for the video portion which is not necessary during 2 channel/stereo listening. A simple relay would re-route the signal directly thus avoiding the processing path that is normally used for movie watching.

Cheers!
TK

[TECHNOKID]

How would this work?

Both LFE and pre-outs would be 'active' at the same time if both were connected at the same time to the sub.

Unless the sub has circuitry to 'cut off' one of the inputs, then both signals will be sent to the sub. When I contacted Epik about my sub, I was told by Chad that the sub would 'sum' both signals.

I do have two sets of cables from my sub when I want to listen in Pure Direct or watch movies, but it requires a manual swapping of cables between "music/Pure Direce" and "LFE/movies".

If I want to watch movies, then I have my sub connected to the LFE/sub out on my AVR....fronts=small (cuz of the scary LFE effects to my bookshelves) and the AVR xover set to 80Hz. The xover on the sub is bypassed and all is good for movies.

For serious music, I have a different memory configuration saved in my AVR for Pure Direct, fronts=Large, sub=off, and the sub is connected via L/R RCA pre-outs. I then use the sub xover to fine tune the xover freq to get the sub nicely blended with my fronts.

Some don't like to have a sub running when going 'old school' for 2-channel listening, but I think for my system, I get a pretty good blending of sub and bookshelves in hooking up my sub this way.

It does require manually swapping cables - but I've learned to deal with it and enjoy the flexibility.

I'm too poor to get a preamp with HT bypass.

I guess some AVRs might have analog bass management??? This would be the ONLY way I can think of to have the sub on in Pure Direct?

ymmv...Looks like you have a pretty good hang of it. Like I said, if you use your "B" channel to drive your sub during pure direct listening (simply set it to large) since the LFE isn't present during pure direct, there is no sum since only speaker level gets the signal. Then when watching movies you set your AVR to A only (not AB) and therefore get only bass through LFE considering your A channels would be set to small. Programming your pure direct is also a good option.

Cheers!
TK

[Erik Tracy]

Looks like you have a pretty good hang of it. Like I said, if you use your "B" channel to drive your sub during pure direct listening (simply set it to large) since the LFE isn't present during pure direct, there is no sum since only speaker level gets the signal. Then when watching movies you set your AVR to A only (not AB) and therefore get only bass through LFE considering your A channels would be set to small. Programming your pure direct is also a good option.

Cheers!
TK

So when you mention A and B - are you refering to the zoning option on some AVRs?

I tried looking at this option as another way to have my cake and eat it to so to say, but when I read my AVR manual it said that when in Pure Direct, B zoning turns off....I think....gotta go check again...

Thanks...

[nguyendot]

I bet he means B as in using both channels of the amplifier output. Because the subwoofer doesn't actually draw any power, it won't affect the A output, but just use the signal going to it.

[TECHNOKID]

So when you mention A and B - are you refering to the zoning option on some AVRs?

I tried looking at this option as another way to have my cake and eat it to so to say, but when I read my AVR manual it said that when in Pure Direct, B zoning turns off....I think....gotta go check again...

Thanks...


I bet he means B as in using both channels of the amplifier output. Because the subwoofer doesn't actually draw any power, it won't affect the A output, but just use the signal going to it.Erik is right, I am taliking about this extra zone which most people don't seem to use. B simply gives you an extra pair of speakers, normally people would use them as presence but as I pointed out, one could use to drive the sub during the 2 channels listening unless Erik is right about his last point. Erik, what's the brand and model of your receiver? I use a yam HTR6080, I'll check the user manual again...

[Erik Tracy]

theres a noticeable difference in sound quality between "Direct" and "Stereo" mode from my Denon 789 receiver. Direct is more natural, smooth, but i cant use the subwoofer. With Stereo i can use the sub but the sound quality is more edgy and theres disturbing sibilence(:D).

why i cant just use the subwoofer with the direct mode? why are these 2 so different?


Another reason why you may notice a difference is if your Denon applies some sort of default PEQ room setting for your speakers if you ran the autocalibration feature.

For example, for my Yamaha, the default room PEQ is "Natural".

So if you then switch to Pure Direct, the PEQ is turned off and you just get a straight pass thru of the signals - no frequency adjustments at all.

You may want to re-run your autocalibration and see if you can manually set the PEQ to off, save that, then compare the sound between Stereo and Direct.

Just some additional thoughts...

[TECHNOKID]

Check p. 33, 38, 42, 72, 78 & 93 (if B ain't working in pure direct mode when set as presence, one could set as Bi-amp and drive the sub and it should work) I guess most yams must work the same way??

http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Receivers/2007_models/HTR6080_Manual.pdf

[MLZ]

Perhaps its just an internally split signal where both the Mains and sub still get a full range signal.

FYI: Before my last system upgrade, I wired my Onkyo receiver to my PSW10, and then from the PSW10 to my R50's I did a test using Stereophile CD test tones and regardless where I set the crossover on the sub, the full signal went to the speakers.

[Osarion]

I don't think my Yammi 665 has that option, when you use the direct mode the sub is disabled........although that's a nice option to have.

Are you using the LFE output on the receiver???


Jimmy

If you set all your speakers to small the sub should kick in. I have a 665 and that's how I have mine set and I have the two fronts playing and the sub. When I change the speakers to large the sub is gone.

[rpmccauley]

there should be some sort of out on there, whether it is specifically a subwoofer pre-out (purple) or just a line out (red and white). thats where you should get your line out for your sub.

I just looked at a pic of your Denon 789. your subwoofer preout is black and is in the center bottom.

[Erik Tracy]

FYI: Before my last system upgrade, I wired my Onkyo receiver to my PSW10, and then from the PSW10 to my R50's I did a test using Stereophile CD test tones and regardless where I set the crossover on the sub, the full signal went to the speakers.

That is because the xover on the sub effects ONLY the sub's high cut off frequency and will not effect the signal being sent to your speakers when the sub and speakers are both connected to speaker level outputs from the Receiver/AVR.

To truly low-pass control the signal going to the speakers, they must be connected directly to your AVR.

[SivaNevets]

if i use direct wiring and set front speaker to large, what will I miss for not having LFE in HD movies?
so avr will recognize my system as 5.0 now?