Marantz or Onkyo??

[jolax73]

Guys,

I am looking to buy a receiver between these two brands to run my Lsi7 speakers and down the road, will get the LsiC and LsiFX. Can anyone give me their inputs as to which brand is a better buy? I know Onkyo has more bells and whistles but in terms of sound quality, which do you guys think is a better buy? I was thinking of the SR-6003 Marantz vs the 805/6 for the Onkyo. Also I see somebody is selling the SR9200, will that be a good buy?

[hockeyboy]

Marantz all the way IMO for overall sound quality. Realize that you are comparing a higher end Onk to a mid-range Marantz. Spend a bit more and get the higher end Marantz an dyou will be happy.

[jolax73]

Which Marants model is the one comparable to the Onkyo 806?

[digitalvideo]

I have the Pioneer Elite SC-05 a/v and I like it, but there is no HDMI processing, so I let my Oppo bluray/dvd do all the HDMI processing. Have you looked into any of the Pioneer Elite recievers or Denon's? I personally believe the best recievers on the market us common mortals can buy are Denon, Marantz and Pioneer.

If my budget would allow it this would be my ideal reciever and one of the best you can get Denon AVR-5308CI = http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avreceivers/708denon5308/

[dave shepard]

I am looking for a new pre and the Marantz is or was (still not sure) on my list but the problem I have with it is when you use any of the new HD formats Audyssey will shut off. It only works with the other formats, from what I have learned the processor inside does not have the power to run it with the new formats which is a real bummer because I really like the new recievers, I installed one (5003) for a buddy of mine with Monitor Audio speakers and the sound with HDMI was really really nice he is not setup for Blu-Ray yet (he had a Toshiba D-VR660) but when running standard DVD's the sound is very nice. It is just a shame that the EQing will not work when he gets a BD player.

Dave

[jolax73]

I have the Pioneer Elite SC-05 a/v and I like it, but there is no HDMI processing, so I let my Oppo bluray/dvd do all the HDMI processing. Have you looked into any of the Pioneer Elite recievers or Denon's? I personally believe the best recievers on the market us common mortals can buy are Denon, Marantz and Pioneer.

If my budget would allow it this would be my ideal reciever and one of the best you can get Denon AVR-5308CI = http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avreceivers/708denon5308/

Wow, that Denon you quoted was way too expensive. If that is the case, I would go with separate. For under $800, any specific model would you recommend though?

[Dawgfish]

If I were in your shoes running LSIs with 4 ohm loads I would look at buying an amp to properly power them. If I were just to run a reciever I would definitely prefer the Marantz over the Onkyo. I own an Onkyo 806, and have heard a few of the Marantz's, and the Marantz just sound better to me, especially for music. Of course sound is a personal thing and your results after listening may be different.

Here is what I would do though. The Marantz 6003 runs about $1000.00. The Onkyo 806 can routinely be found on the net for around $600, probably less now that it is being replaced by the 807. I would buy the 806 (or the 706, which could be found even cheaper around $500 and it has preouts also) and add a good 5 or 7 channel amp. You can buy new ones from Emotiva for around $800 for the XPA-5 and $700 for the UPA-7, or buy used ones here on the board, Craigs List, Audiogon, etc for around $500 to $600. By going this route you can pick up a good reciever AND an amplifier to properly drive those LSIs. I think you would be much happier going this route in the long run, I know I would. Your speakers will thank you for it also. Just my dos centavos.

[Dawgfish]

Oh yeah, one more thing if you decide you just want to run a reciever and not bother with the amp, I would strongly recommend you look at the Pioneer Elite SC 05, or SC 07. Their ice amps will do a respectable job on the LSIs and they sound great. You can get them at pretty good price points these days on the net.

[Falcon01]

Marantz 100%. In my opinion it has an overall better sound but there are many factors that affect sound. I've heard the Onkyo 605 and 805 and they were good but the Marantz was cleaner and more detailed. Also the Marantz 6003 was really nice for music and I'm sure others will tell you the marantz is one of the better receivers for music.

[digitalvideo]

You can get a Pioneer SC-05 or 07 or a Denon 4 series for under $1000 at ebay and www.audiogon.com they always pop up with private sellers. A high quality reciever will drive a full 7.1 system with no sweat in 26x26 room like mine.

[digitalvideo]

Are there any true internal differences between the Denon and Marantz though since they are basically the same company?

[deluxman]

Yeah, I have been eyeing on the Emotiva XPA-5 since I read that there are a lot good reviews on that amp. But my problem now, what pre-pro should I get that does cost around $500 or less but has all latest hd decoding or should I just get a Marants, Denon or Pioneer receiver that has the preout that you guys recommended. However, I am also curious as to how big of a difference if I were to just use the amp from a receiver to run my Lsi7 compared to using separates.

Input guys, please........

[Bernal]

Guys,

I am looking to buy a receiver between these two brands to run my Lsi7 speakers and down the road, will get the LsiC and LsiFX. Can anyone give me their inputs as to which brand is a better buy? I know Onkyo has more bells and whistles but in terms of sound quality, which do you guys think is a better buy? I was thinking of the SR-6003 Marantz vs the 805/6 for the Onkyo. Also I see somebody is selling the SR9200, will that be a good buy?

Denon 4308 Ci/4810Ci is excellent.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avreceivers/208denon4308/

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/recei...er-review.html

[Dawgfish]

Yeah, I have been eyeing on the Emotiva XPA-5 since I read that there are a lot good reviews on that amp. But my problem now, what pre-pro should I get that does cost around $500 or less but has all latest hd decoding or should I just get a Marants, Denon or Pioneer receiver that has the preout that you guys recommended. However, I am also curious as to how big of a difference if I were to just use the amp from a receiver to run my Lsi7 compared to using separates.

Input guys, please........

You can find an Onky 706, Yamaha V-663, Harmon Kardon AVR-254 on the net these days all for around $500 or less. They all have preouts and HD decoding. For a hundred bucks or two you could upgrade to an Onkyo 806, a Pioneer Elite SC-05, or even find a good deal on the Denon 2809 CI (which is what I am currently running in my main system and I love it). Add this to a good multi channel amp like the XPA-5, or a used Adcom, Carver, Rotel, Parasound, etc, and you have one heck of a nice sounding system that will push anything. Trust me on this, you will hear a huge difference running a seperate amp to push your LSIs as opposed to using just the amp on most recievers. Again if it were my money, I would get a good deal on one of the AVRs mentioned above, add a seperate amp and be done with it. Another option is to just buy a good two channel amp to power your front mains, and add a five channel multichannel amp in the future when funds permit and you upgrade to all LSI speakers. Nice used two channel amps like Adcom GFA-555s or Carver TFM-35s can be found pretty reguraly in the $300 range.

[deluxman]

Hey Dawgfish,
Since I will running with separate, using XPA-5, I guess, I don't really need and expensive AVR, as long as it has the pre-outs I needed and able to decode all the latest HD decodings, upscale to 1080p, I should be good to go, right? I was reading the specs on that Yammy V663 you recommended, sounds like a good deal to me with the price tag of $360 at amazon. Whaddaya think?

[greymatter]

http://www.photosnag.com/img/4210/n09x0302vnsn/clear.gifMarantz 100%. In my opinion it has an overall better sound but there are many factors that affect sound. I've heard the Onkyo 605 and 805 and they were good but the Marantz was cleaner and more detailed. Also the Marantz 6003 was really nice for music and I'm sure others will tell you the marantz is one of the better receivers for music.

+1 agreed

[deluxman]

Do you also know if I were to use a 3 channel amp and for the surround, I can use the power from the receiver, right? But can bi-amp it in order to fully utilize the power from the receiver? Is this something that is possible to do? Just curious since the LsiFX is capable of bi-amp connection.

[apphd]

Hey Dawgfish,
Since I will running with separate, using XPA-5, I guess, I don't really need and expensive AVR, as long as it has the pre-outs I needed and able to decode all the latest HD decodings, upscale to 1080p, I should be good to go, right? I was reading the specs on that Yammy V663 you recommended, sounds like a good deal to me with the price tag of $360 at amazon. Whaddaya think?

Correct, Do not NEED, but along with a better amp section in the higher priced AVRs there is an improvement in the pre section as well (design and component quality). It's just trying to figure out at what point (model number) as you climb up the food chain this occurs, and does this SQ improvement justify the added $$ to your budgit.

Don't get me wrong the entry level stuff doesn't sound bad (I use a Yamaha 663 as a prepro, it fit my budgit/needs) just keep this in mind as you shop, like anything else there is always better for more $$.

[hockeyboy]

Which Marants model is the one comparable to the Onkyo 806?

Actually that 6003 seems comparable but you might consider the new 6004 which is only a bit more. I absolutely agree that you should plan on adding a separate amp as soon as you can afford to pick one up on the cheap. I run a Marantz and used them for a bit to power my 15's to mediocre success. Once I added my separate amp it went from okay to incredible. :D

[deluxman]

You can find an Onky 706, Yamaha V-663, Harmon Kardon AVR-254 on the net these days all for around $500 or less. They all have preouts and HD decoding. For a hundred bucks or two you could upgrade to an Onkyo 806, a Pioneer Elite SC-05, or even find a good deal on the Denon 2809 CI (which is what I am currently running in my main system and I love it). Add this to a good multi channel amp like the XPA-5, or a used Adcom, Carver, Rotel, Parasound, etc, and you have one heck of a nice sounding system that will push anything. Trust me on this, you will hear a huge difference running a seperate amp to push your LSIs as opposed to using just the amp on most recievers. Again if it were my money, I would get a good deal on one of the AVRs mentioned above, add a seperate amp and be done with it. Another option is to just buy a good two channel amp to power your front mains, and add a five channel multichannel amp in the future when funds permit and you upgrade to all LSI speakers. Nice used two channel amps like Adcom GFA-555s or Carver TFM-35s can be found pretty reguraly in the $300 range.


Do you also know if I were to use a 3 channel amp and for the surround, I can use the power from the receiver, right? But can bi-amp it in order to fully utilize the power from the receiver? Is this something that is possible to do? Just curious since the LsiFX is capable of bi-amp connection

[apphd]

Do you also know if I were to use a 3 channel amp and for the surround, I can use the power from the receiver, right? But can bi-amp it in order to fully utilize the power from the receiver? Is this something that is possible to do? Just curious since the LsiFX is capable of bi-amp connection

Yes you can use the receiver to power the surrounds. As far as bi-amp feature it might depend on the AVR. I think most offer the option to bi-amp the main speakers by using the rear surround speaker outs. But I'm not sure if any offer you the option to bi-amp the surrounds.

[debussyj]

I'd go Marantz all the way. But my priorities are different than most. I place a high value on warmth, detail, musicality, and really enjoy listening to music. I have a full set of LSI speakers and they are demanding in the power department. I also don't have the room for extra amps. I recently did a small upgrade from my Marantz SR-9200 to the SR-9600. I like their flagship receiver line because they have the power and really do a decent job of driving the LSI-15's. I also took a long hard look at the top NAD receiver, which was a serious contender, but I couldn't get past the spartan looks. I've also found that with all that stuff under the hood, the Marantz's run fairly cool, which is a plus. As always, it's just a matter of taste and listening priorities. Best luck!

[danz1906]

Marantz 100%. In my opinion it has an overall better sound but there are many factors that affect sound. I've heard the Onkyo 605 and 805 and they were good but the Marantz was cleaner and more detailed. Also the Marantz 6003 was really nice for music and I'm sure others will tell you the marantz is one of the better receivers for music.

Agreed!

[Dawgfish]

Do you also know if I were to use a 3 channel amp and for the surround, I can use the power from the receiver, right? But can bi-amp it in order to fully utilize the power from the receiver? Is this something that is possible to do? Just curious since the LsiFX is capable of bi-amp connection

Yes you can use a three channel amp to power your front mains and center and use the reciever to push the surrounds and rear surrounds if you chose. I did this before and it sounds great. I have an Emotiva XPA-3 and absolutely love it, it's definitely worth checking out if you decide to go the three channel amp route. An external amp will free up the power from your reciever that would have been used to push the mains to better push your surrounds and rear surrounds if you chose to go that rout. Bi-amping off a reciever is not quite the same as true active or passive biamping using seperate amplifiers. Some people see little to no benifits when biamping with a reciever. You'll be much better off just using a good three, five, or seven channel amp, and using the receiver to push whatever speakers you are not powering by external amplification.

Apphd has given you some great advice on the reciever selection. He's right there will be a point where the AVR's DACs will be much better at a certain pricepoint. The knock a lot of people have on the lower level Yamaha recievers are they are bright sounding. I had a Yamaha V-661 and thought it sounded good, though I do tend to agree it was a little on the bright side as compared to some of the other AVRs out there. Running an external amplifier that has a warmer sound such as Carvers, Sunfires, B&Ks, etc will tame this brightness and will usually make for a good combo. The Onkyo 706 is pretty neutral sounding and is great for home theater and tv, but not quite as good for music as some of the other AVRs. Ditto for the 806. The 805 sound great for music and home theater however, but tends to run a little hot and has known HDMI handshake issues. The Harmon Kardon 254 is great sounding, especially for music, but it has a lot of known glitches and reliability problems. The Pioneer SC-05 is neutral, to slightly warm sounding and sounds great with everything. The ice amp on it will also do a pretty darn good job of pushing your LSIs until you can get an external amp. This is one gem of a reciever,and if you can find a good deal on one, I would jump all over it.

Denons and Marnatz's sound outstanding with everything to me. The only problem with them is the lower level AVRs don't have preouts. You have to step up their mid-level AVRs starting at about $1000 retail to get preouts. The positive is you get a great sounding AVR. Good deals can be found on the Denon AVR-2809CI/AVR-989 right now becase they are being discontinued and replaced by the new AVR-3310. I have the 2809 and absolutely love it. If you can find a good deal on it, I wouldn't pass it up. I'm not sure what kind of deals can be had on Marantz's, but it would stand to reason that if the **03 model Marantz's are being replaced with new models, you could probably find good deals on them as hockeyboy suggests. Hope this helps.

[digitalvideo]

I have a Pioneer SC05, but I also have a Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 400 7.1 which I think is over kill, I am not an audiophile, I just use my system for tv and movies. I think I could get plenty of big sound out of my system with just a used Pioneer SC-09 or Denon 5308 a/v. A good powerful reciever is enough IMO. I might sell my Sunfire.

[jolax73]

What kind of speakers are you running and how much are you planning to sell your Sunfire? Send me a picture and describe the condition. Thanks.

[bms]

For what it's worth, I picked up a refurbed Onkyo 806 from Club Onkyo for $479.00, including shipping. Getting ready to install, set up, etc... Did a lot of reading and it seems to fit the bill for me.

We shall see...

[vijayl]

nice choice bms.
i'm sure u wud enjoy it. Onk/RTi combo may sound lil' bit on brighter side.. - just my opinion.

[moe]

I have an 805,get the Marantz,even a lesser model,if you're ever going to listen to music that is.

[ls7z06]

I am real happy with my Onk 806 but I am only running RTi series speakers.. I know a lot of guys bash them but I have been pleased with mine. To get 130w per channel with a Denon or ? it would have cost me 2 to 3 times as much.

[wutadumsn23]

I am real happy with my Onk 806 but I am only running RTi series speakers.. I know a lot of guys bash them but I have been pleased with mine. To get 130w per channel with a Denon or ? it would have cost me 2 to 3 times as much.



I also have an 806 and while I love it and Onkyo products in general don't be fooled by the 130W per channel. That isn't an accurate number, that is only with two channels driven. If you are running a 5.1 it will drop off a bit and if you are running 7.1 it will drop even farther. I am glad you like yours, because like I said I am tickled with mine. Pretty impresive list of equipment you have in your sig though ls7.

-Jeff

[Dawgfish]

I am real happy with my Onk 806 but I am only running RTi series speakers.. I know a lot of guys bash them but I have been pleased with mine. To get 130w per channel with a Denon or ? it would have cost me 2 to 3 times as much.

Be careful with getting caught up in the wattage numbers game with AVRs. Like wutadumsn23 said, AVRs rarely put out the watts in real life that the specs say they do. Additionally you have to double the wattage of an amplifier to get a 3 decibel increase in sound level. I also own an Onkyo 806 rated at 130 wpc as well as the Denon 2809CI rated at 115 wpc. The Denon pushed my speakers equally well as the Onkyo (and this was pushing RTI 12s as fronts, RTI-10s as sorrounds, and RTI-8s as rear sorrounds). There was no discernable difference between the two as far as loudness and headroom goes, and in fact the Denon pushed the speakers much cleaner, with less distortion and ran cooler to boot. Some of the Harmon Kardon AVRs out there have much less published wattage specs as most of their counterparts, yet perform just as well if not better than many of their competitors from an amplifier standpoint. They are actually publishing specs that were actually measured in real world, all 7 channels being driven listening condiitons.

This may sound crazy, but not all watts are created equal! The fact is neither reciever being used alone to push the speakers can hold a candle to my current set-up with all external amplification. Most recievers out there do not have the headroom, reserve power, and sheer muscle of a seperate amplifier (with the exceptions being some of the high end Adcom, NAD, Rotel, etc. and the Pioneer Elites with the ICE amps). Think about this, according to Onkyo, the 806 is rated at 130 wpc x 7. If this were true, this would work out to a total of 910 watts. The 806 weighs about 36 pounds. My Adcom GFA-555 is rated at 200 wpc X 2 for a total of 400 watts and weighs over 40 lbs. So an amplifier puts out a total of 400 watts and weighs more than a reciever that supposedly puts out 910 watts, but yet the reciever has a ton of other processers and circuitry that the amplifier does not have. Why is this? The answer is the amplifier sections of most recievers built today are far less robust, have inferior components, and are much lighter duty than a typical quality external amplifier.

For the record I'm not writing this to bash the 806 or any other reciever out there. The 806 is a solid reciever, especially considering some of the deals on it out ther right now. I am just trying to point out that it's really fruitless to chose one AVR out there over another purely on a watts per channel basis and that adding external amplification is the way to go to get the most out of your system. Chose an AVR on features, overall sound, and all other things being fairly equal, what kind of deal you can get.

[Pycroft]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but would love to ask a clarification question...Dawgfish, you say that not all watts are 'real watts'. I am lookign up upgrade my AVR. I have an Onkyo 606 - 90 Watts per channel (Or so they say :). I don' thave the money to spend 600 + dollars on an AVR, but can build something a piece at a time. Someone suggested HK AVR 254 - 50 Watts per channel with Pre-outs and reasonable price. I asked about the 50 watts, and that this was worse cause I have a 90 watt receiver (excluding the 254 has preouts). He said basically the same thing...the HK is conservative in the rating, their 50 watts is better than the Onkyo's 90 WPC. So...how do I, with a modest budget, decide? I thought watts was the first thing to look at. Again, obviously if I were choosing a 1,000 + dollar receiver, I would hear a big difference. I'm not sure what the differences are between these two budget receivers, and how to consider wattage. How do I know if it's 50 'conservative' watts, as opposed to 90 WPC that really isn't 90 WPC.

Pycroft

[Dawgfish]

That's a really good question. The best thing to do is to try to get out and actually listen to the recievers you are interested in. It would be even better if you could listen to them in your room using your speakers during a trial or looner period, but this rarely happens. There are articles which actually provide the results of actual bench tests on respective amplifiers. Do a google search for bench tests of the recievers you are looking at and you can see the results for yourself. This board is also a great resource. There are lot's of knowledgeble folks here with lots of experience.

As far as the HK 254 goes, it's a great sounding AVR with preouts. Unfortunately some of these have had many problems and reliabiliy issues. If you can find a good one, they are an outstanding entry to lower-mid AVR. The amplifiers on the 254 will hang with the 606 with no sweat. It's just a matter of not finding one with reliability issues. If I were to buy one, I would make sure I got one from an authorized HK dealer, or a refurbished unit directly form HK, that way you would still have a warranty if anything went wrong.

[jolax73]

After reading all the thread in the forums and getting advice from you audiophile manias, I have set my mind to get the Emotiva XPA-5 as an external amp to drive my LSi speakers as I am planning to do a 5.1 setup.
However, I am still in a dilemma in choosing which AVR or pre-processor to go along with my XPA-5. I want an AVR that cost around $500 but has HD radio, good video processing and be able to decode most HD sounds. Don't really need other best and whistles but for sure is reliable. I have read that Onkyo's AVR is kinda hot when being used so I would want to avoid that Brand. Just my opinion, no offend to Onkyo fans. I am inclining to Marantz, Denon or Yamaha but is also open to other suggestions. Not quite sure about Pioneer as I have never a big fan of Pioneer as their sound tends to be on the bright side.

In addition, I notice that most AVR has a THD between 0.05-0.08% while with XPA-5, it's THD is 0.01%. So I must say it should have a cleaner sound output than using an AVR that cost above $1000. It is just my opinion that I could get a better sound using a separate Amp + $500 AVR than a $1200 AVR. Anyone agree?

[Falcon01]

Depends on the AVR+AMP combination, wires between the two, etc but yes genereally going seperates gives you better sound. XPA-5's get good reviews from people that go from just an AVR to adding an amp but it also depends on the AVR. Some AVR's have great internal amplification so the difference may not be so drastic.

[jolax73]

What would be a comparable AVR to a Amp+XPA-5 combination with say other factors being the same? And what about price wise, do you think it would be more expensive to get a stand alone AVR that has the same sound quality to a combination AVR ($500) + XPA-5?

[concealer404]

I don't really know of any AVRs off the top of my head that truly put out the power that the XPA-5 is capable of, so i'm going to go ahead and say that it's probably not real possible on a similar budget of what it would cost for a decent AVR with pre-outs + XPA-5.

[ls7z06]

Yes, I know all too well that watts are not the end all in receiver selection. But it is a definate consideration and one of the first things I look at. I also know there are better receivers than an Onk 806. I bought mine based on features, capabilities, specs, cost, and how it actually sounded with my other equipment, in my own home compared to other comparably priced products. (Thanks to Crutchfield's easy return policy)

I have been pleased and think it sounds killer with my set up. It is very realistic and crystal clear at any reasonable volume level. When I considered the whole what you get for what you pay scenario, it was the best I could find. I may get an amp or even upgrade to an Elite or high end Denon or ??? one of these days. But I am real happy with the Onk so far.

[jolax73]

Anyone can give their recommendation for a decent (midrange) receiver that cost under $500 and also has pre-outs? I might also want to have the HD radio feature built-in.

[jinjuku]

. I have read that Onkyo's AVR is kinda hot when being used so I would want to avoid that Brand. Just my opinion, no offend to Onkyo fans.

If you are bypassing the Onkyo amp section you won't have to worry about the heat. The amp is what generates that heat.

Onkyo is nice because of the Audyssey EQ system.

[reeltrouble1]

My oinkers amp section is still active and is hot even though I do not use it so its certainly toasty and should have adequate ventilation, not to pick on Onk my H&K and Sony did the same, I have found the Parasound Z-breeze product as an excellent option to extend the life of an receiver/amplfier.

RT1

[ls7z06]

After reading all the thread in the forums and getting advice from you audiophile manias, I have set my mind to get the Emotiva XPA-5 as an external amp to drive my LSi speakers as I am planning to do a 5.1 setup.
However, I am still in a dilemma in choosing which AVR or pre-processor to go along with my XPA-5. I want an AVR that cost around $500 but has HD radio, good video processing and be able to decode most HD sounds. Don't really need other best and whistles but for sure is reliable. I have read that Onkyo's AVR is kinda hot when being used so I would want to avoid that Brand. Just my opinion, no offend to Onkyo fans. I am inclining to Marantz, Denon or Yamaha but is also open to other suggestions. Not quite sure about Pioneer as I have never a big fan of Pioneer as their sound tends to be on the bright side.

In addition, I notice that most AVR has a THD between 0.05-0.08% while with XPA-5, it's THD is 0.01%. So I must say it should have a cleaner sound output than using an AVR that cost above $1000. It is just my opinion that I could get a better sound using a separate Amp + $500 AVR than a $1200 AVR. Anyone agree?


OMG! That's like saying you don't want a new ZR1 Corvette because you can't put your hand on the exhaust after you drive it. I have had Sony, Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon and Onkyo receivers. They all generate a certain amount of heat. But good luck in your quest! Let us know how you end up.

[Krazyz1]

Onkyo!!!!! untill it would break under warranty , and if thats the case just junk it. Onkyo customer service does not exist. Kinda like pay-pal. NEVER wrong. The good side is VERY LOW percentage of ONKYO defective. They have built theyre reputation on innovation and quality.