bi-amping my rti8's

[mystik610]

I recently picked up a Harman Kardon PA2000 2 channel amp to drive more power into my rti8's and to open them up a bit more. I just need some insight on the best way to configure my system.

I'm currently running a 5 channel set-up through an Onkyo 706. Would it be better to bi-amp the rti8's by driving the high pass through the onkyo, and the low pass through the HK? Or should I drive the RTi8's by the HK alone, and save more power for the other channels on the Onkyo?

I'm also running Audyssey, and like it a lot. Does anyone have experience running audyssey with a bi-amped set-up? How high should I set the volume on the HK when setting everything up.

Thanks for your help!

[george daniel]

I would use the HK for the RTI-8's only, just my .02--good luck.

[nguyendot]

Don't mix different amps. You will not have the same gain on the outboard amp as the receiver, and you'll end up with a differential as you change volumes. Also, there probably won't be any synergy between the two. I suggest just using the external amp on the speakers and forget about biamping unless you have another similar amp to do it with.

[mystik610]

Don't mix different amps. You will not have the same gain on the outboard amp as the receiver, and you'll end up with a differential as you change volumes. Also, there probably won't be any synergy between the two. I suggest just using the external amp on the speakers and forget about biamping unless you have another similar amp to do it with.

Thanks for your advice. As far as calibrating the system go, how high should I set the volume on the 2 channel amp? I’m adding the second amp to bring out more audio detail from my fronts (particularly in the mid-range), but obviously don’t want them to overpower the rest of my system.

[xcapri79]

Running Audyssey will get you what you want.
You can always tweek the channel gains after that to suit your taste.
The RTi8's are easy to drive.
I doubt they really need an external amp, the Onkyo 706 should power them just fine.
If you use RTi10's or RTi12's, then they can benefit from an external amp.

[Willow]

Running Audyssey will get you what you want.
You can always tweek the channel gains after that to suit your taste.
The RTi8's are easy to drive.
I doubt they really need an external amp, the Onkyo 706 should power them just fine.
If you use RTi10's or RTi12's, then they can benefit from an external amp.


I doubt you've ever heard the difference an amp can make on the 8's....:rolleyes:

Just use the HK on your 8's you'll enjoy them even more.

[xcapri79]

I doubt you've ever heard the difference an amp can make on the 8's....:rolleyes:

Just use the HK on your 8's you'll enjoy them even more.

I have and it isn't too much with the RTi8's.
They are not LSi's.
The HK PA2000 isn't that great of an amp, it is an ok amp.
The Onkyo 706 amp isn't that bad either. Have you heard it?
I doubt there is much of a difference.

At any rate, Mystik can try it for himself and his ears can decide.
People often hear things differently and it is best for each to decide for themself.
Mystik can report on his findings, I'm sure we will be interested in the results.

[mystik610]

I added the HK amp to my system this morning, and there is a noticeable difference. There's definitely an improvement in the dynamic range of the system....the RTi8's seem more laid back now, but are definitely more detailed. Audio details are projected from the 8's without getting overly loud. Prior to adding the separate amp, the high's were definitely overpowering audio detail in the mid-range. Now the mid-range definitely images better, and is more robust overall. They're still lacking at the low frequencies (obviously), but the VTF-3 is delegated to handle all of that anyway. What I do notice is better integration between the RTi8's and the sub, particularly when it comes to music. The gaping hole in the mid-range is now filled, and the system sounds 'fuller' overall.

The HK amp is driving 100 watts per channel, and on paper, adding the PA2000 doesn't sound like too significant of a feat. HK has a habit of under-rating their amps, however, and Onkyo has a habit of over-rating theirs. There's a very obvious difference in how much power is being driven into my rti8's now, and although I can tell the 8's can take even more power, I'm quite satisfied with the project. I got the amp for a hundred bucks so it was well worth it!

[curved]

I doubt you've ever heard the difference an amp can make on the 8's....:rolleyes:

Just use the HK on your 8's you'll enjoy them even more.

Agreed. An external amp helps tremendously on the low end side of them. To me it's a totally different speaker adding an amp....and even more changing the caps and resistors with an amp. While going back to an AVR (Yamaha, Onkyo, HK), it lost the bottom end.

[xcapri79]

I added the HK amp to my system this morning, and there is a noticeable difference. There's definitely an improvement in the dynamic range of the system....the RTi8's seem more laid back now, but are definitely more detailed. Audio details are projected from the 8's without getting overly loud. Prior to adding the separate amp, the high's were definitely overpowering audio detail in the mid-range. Now the mid-range definitely images better, and is more robust overall. They're still lacking at the low frequencies (obviously), but the VTF-3 is delegated to handle all of that anyway. What I do notice is better integration between the RTi8's and the sub, particularly when it comes to music. The gaping hole in the mid-range is now filled, and the system sounds 'fuller' overall.

The HK amp is driving 100 watts per channel, and on paper, adding the PA2000 doesn't sound like too significant of a feat. HK has a habit of under-rating their amps, however, and Onkyo has a habit of over-rating theirs. There's a very obvious difference in how much power is being driven into my rti8's now, and although I can tell the 8's can take even more power, I'm quite satisfied with the project. I got the amp for a hundred bucks so it was well worth it!

Well I was wrong and they made a difference for you.
That is great, because it is your ears that count.
Thanks for giving us your findings.
I'm sure you will enjoy the RTi8's, but it sounds like you might be interested in a bigger amp now.:)

[mystik610]

Well I was wrong and they made a difference for you.
That is great, because it is your ears that count.
Thanks for giving us your findings.
I'm sure you will enjoy the RTi8's, but it sounds like you might be interested in a bigger amp now.:)


The more time I spend with the external amp, the more apparent the improvement are. What’s most noticeable is the improved dynamic range from the fronts. Softer scenes are very detailed and delicate….highlighting audio details very clearly, yet very subtly, without needing to get loud. Louder scenes are powerful and dramatic, filling the room with sound at volume levels that were pretty moderate before I added the amp. I popped in Phantom to test the set-up out and was impressed by how well the ‘emotion’ of the film was conveyed through the wide dynamic range in itself. I’m not really a fan of the film (its my wife’s movie), and only intended to watch a few scenes, but ended up watching a good chunk of the film lol.

I’m also starting to see the short-comings of the Onkyo’s internal amplifier as well, as the center and rear channels start sounding very anemic during loud scenes. I double checked the audyssey settings by running some pink noise and making sure everything was level matched with an SPL. With static pink noise, all the channels are outputting at the same level. During moderately loud or quiet scenes the center and rears balance well with the mains, but they’re downright drowned out by the fronts as soon as things get loud. It seems that with louder scenes the Onkyo’s internal amp is having trouble driving enough power to match the output of the fronts being driven by the Harman kardon. I’ll have to get a 200 watt 5 channel amp one day!