Is Sunfire "Cinema Grand Five Channels" strong enough power LSi15s?

[Bernal]

Hi,
According to characteristics attached "Cinema Grand 200 ~ five" is 400 watts per channel into 4 ohms.
My only hesitation is statements I've read about noise on the amp.
Q.- I want to install LSi 15 in stereo?
Q.- It is a good choice?.
Q.- Thoughts?

[tonyb]

More than enough power, only you can answer if it is to your liking.Me personally,I find the sunfire amps to be alittle sterile. You may have to experiment a bit with ic's to best match up with what you have.

[cfrizz]

Don't worry about what you have read, listen to what your ears say. You will be fine with the Sunfire.

[TNRabbit]

I find the Sunfire amps to have an INCREDIBLY low noise floor....

[jimmydep]

I have a Sunfire Cinema Grand 200x5 I occasionally swap with an Emotiva XPA-5 to power my LSi-15's, I bought both amps because I heard good things about them and wanted to see which one sounded better to ME.

The Sunfire has MORE than enough power to run the LSi's, I haven't heard any noise at any level, the amp is dead silent. It has a VERY warm and detailed sound, that I feel is too laid back for the Mellow LSi's.

If you like a powerful low end, extra warm mids and highs, an average soundstage, with lots of detail, then the Sunfire is a good amp to try. I would recommend using the voltage source output, not the current source (current source is waaaaay too flat for my taste).

Bernal, Enjoy the journey,

Jim D

[Bernal]

Thanks for your reply.
Q. - Bi-Wiring: Thoughts?
Q. - Bi-Amping:Thoughts?

[sTiLlLeArNiNg]

@ jimmy how you like the xpa5? Mine is getting better as i listen to it :o HUGE improvement over the Yamaha integrated power :)

Sunfire is a beast on paper (never heard one myself) and should power them well!

[McLoki]

Plenty of power - but I would stop short of saying it would be a good match. Carver amps are typically considered fairly warm sounding - as are the LSi speakers. I would guess the sunfire would be a better match with SDA's (if it is common ground) or RTiA speakers than the LSi's.

If you have a chance to listen to the combo before you purchase - that would be best.

Michael

[jimmydep]

The Xpa-5 is an excellent match for the LSI's. I like the sound better than with the Sunfire. the Emo is more up front, dynamic, detailed with a great low end and a large soundstage with better imaging than the Sunfire. I think the LSI's sound much better with the Emo amp.
I also have a vintage Marantz amp that I think is also a better match with the LSi's over the Sunfire.

SL, The Emo amp took a good 20 to 30 hours to really begin to mellow out

Because I have these extra amps, I bi-amp the LSi-15's and the LSIC. with the 15's I don't hear a significant difference in the sound, just a sublte increase in the low end, with similar results for both the Emo and Sunfire. With the LSIC I get a little more clarity in the mids...IMO I don't think it's necessary to Bi-amp the LSI's with either of these amps.

Jim D

[heiney9]

Personally, I think the EMO amp with the LSi's left a lot to be desired. Probably one of the most flat, lifeless sounding amp I've heard in a while. It was forward, constricted and sounded very sterile.

[sTiLlLeArNiNg]

Thank's for the input jimmy :) I have heard a few people reccomending some listening time before formulating an opinion but i can say i have experienced the same thing's for myself in my system with the Emotiva but truth be told i have never compared it to anything else :o

Don't think i will have to either, to be totally honest with you ;) :D

I think i have logged about 3hrs of 2ch listening to Vinyl and roughly 15hrs of HT so far....

"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

^^ Word's to live by!?!?!

[jimmydep]

Personally, I think the EMO amp with the LSi's left a lot to be desired. Probably one of the most flat, lifeless sounding amp I've heard in a while. It was forward, constricted and sounded very sterile.

What is your amp preference with the LSI's? I was thinking about trying tubes, but was concerned about meeting the current needs of the LSi's.


Jim

[danz1906]

The Sunfire should me a great match for the LSi15 speakers.

[Bernal]

The Xpa-5 is an excellent match for the LSI's. I like the sound better than with the Sunfire. the Emo is more up front, dynamic, detailed with a great low end and a large soundstage with better imaging than the Sunfire. I think the LSI's sound much better with the Emo amp.
I also have a vintage Marantz amp that I think is also a better match with the LSi's over the Sunfire.

SL, The Emo amp took a good 20 to 30 hours to really begin to mellow out

Because I have these extra amps, I bi-amp the LSi-15's and the LSIC. with the 15's I don't hear a significant difference in the sound, just a sublte increase in the low end, with similar results for both the Emo and Sunfire. With the LSIC I get a little more clarity in the mids...IMO I don't think it's necessary to Bi-amp the LSI's with either of these amps.

Jim D





Our feedback is important.
A friend lent me a XPA-5 FIVE CHANNEL AUDIO POWER AMPLIFIER 200 watts RMS x 5 into 8 ohms | 350 watts RMS x 5 into 4 ohms
Listen First "XPA-5 " and then "Sunfire" in LSi15.
With honesty must hear a Sunfire.
XPA-5 not made it to the sound quality that you experience with Sunfire.
No doubt I'll go with Sunfire.
Thank you.

[heiney9]

What is your amp preference with the LSI's? I was thinking about trying tubes, but was concerned about meeting the current needs of the LSi's.


Jim

Pass Labs Aleph, Adcom 555, Carver Sunfire, Carver TFM, Monarchy SM70, Parasound HCA. We tried all these with the LSi15's at a few of our RAS meets as one of the members has LSi 15's.

I am anxious to hear the EMO again as it was less than stellar. The owner states it should sound better so we may listen again at one of our future get together's. BTW, these local get together's are awesome. I highly encourage you to find some Polkies in your general area and meet up for socializing and getting your ears on as much different gear as possible. We have a great group of about 6-8 guys and we meet about 3-4 times a year or whenever a boatload of new gear is aquired

Several Polkies have had good luck with tubes and LSi's. You need a beefy tube amp, not so much large amount of watts, but something that can run a more difficult load. I would suggest a tube amp for only 2 channel use and realize you won't reach ear splitting spl's unless you spend a lot on a nice high power tube amp.

GL

H9

[xcapri79]

Thank's for the input jimmy :) I have heard a few people reccomending some listening time before formulating an opinion but i can say i have experienced the same thing's for myself in my system with the Emotiva but truth be told i have never compared it to anything else :o

Don't think i will have to either, to be totally honest with you ;) :D

I think i have logged about 3hrs of 2ch listening to Vinyl and roughly 15hrs of HT so far....

"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

^^ Word's to live by!?!?!

There are other factors such as room size and treatments, as well as, the type of music played and equipment used which influence the sound.

For me the Emo XPA-5 powered LSi25 or LSi15's sound great.
I agree that they sound,
"dynamic, detailed with a great low end and a large soundstage with better imaging."

I do not agree that they sound,
"flat, lifeless, constricted or sterile."

[Lowell_M]

Pass Labs Aleph, Adcom 555, Carver Sunfire, Carver TFM, Monarchy SM70, Parasound HCA. We tried all these with the LSi15's at a few of our RAS meets as one of the members has LSi 15's.


H9

I am said member of RAS with the LSi15's and can say that both amps up for debate in this thread were the two most dissappointing out of all of H9's list above. If I were to rate the amps in order of my prefference I'd go, Pass Labs Aleph by a long shot, Monarchy SM70, ADCOM GFA555, and then the straglers that I would never permanently integrate into my 2-channel... Parasound HCA, Carver TFM, Carver Sunfire, EMO XPA-5


Again, this is just my opinion with the mix of gear that I have in my sig. Not all ears are the same. Finding a local group of people who can mix and match gear at a gathering provides a great deal of insight into the subtle differences in the gear.

[heiney9]

There are other factors such as room size and treatments, as well as, the type of music played and equipment used which influence the sound.

While that is all true..............all the amps we compared that day were in the same room w/the same demo music same pre, same cdp; nullifying your comment in regards to what my impression of the Emo was compared to all the other gear we listened to.

But, yes if the OP wants to compare some different gear then keeping everything as equal as possible is best.

The Emo was flat, lifeless, and constricted almost like no other amp I've ever heard. I hope to confirm my initial impression or get a new impression upon another listening session. It's hard to believe people are so ga..ga.. over the Emo based on what I heard (or in this case didn't hear)

IMHO of course.

H9

[Bernal]

I will build my Stereo System with this configuration:

✓ DENON AVR-4308Ci: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH/2.1 CH A/V
✓ SUNFIRE Cinema Grand 200 ~ five - Bob Carver's
✓ OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio
✓ POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT
✓ POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT
✓ VELODYNE OPTIMUN 12 (SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)

[love2listen]

I have my Lsi 15's and LsiC powered by a Sunfire Cinema Grand Architect's Choice Series II amp and overall they sound great! There are times though, that I, just like Jimmydep, feel the sound is a bit laid back for my taste. I have swapped out the 15's with the 9's and still had the same results. The Sunfire has more than enough power to handle the 15's and runs very cool even after hrs of use. I have experimented between the Current and Voltage source outputs and also with Biwiring and have not heard much of a difference. The Sunfire is a great amp, but one day I would like to do an A/B comaprison with the Emo XPA-5 to see how it stacks up to the Sunfire. :)

[xcapri79]

The Emo was flat, lifeless, and constricted almost like no other amp I've ever heard. I hope to confirm my initial impression or get a new impression upon another listening session. It's hard to believe people are so ga..ga.. over the Emo based on what I heard (or in this case didn't hear)

IMHO of course.

H9

Well of course. I've got the Beatles remastered stereo playing on the LSi25's right now and all I can say is ga...ga...ga...ga.ga.ga.ga...ga.ga.ga.ga...Emo so fine. Absolutely fine.

Hey but different oprinions and ideas make this world go round.
It makes this hobby fun to listen to different equipment and music and read or hear the various observations of others.

[jimmydep]

I have my Lsi 15's and LsiC powered by a Sunfire Cinema Grand Architect's Choice Series II amp and overall they sound great! There are times though, that I, just like Jimmydep, feel the sound is a bit laid back for my taste. I have swapped out the 15's with the 9's and still had the same results. The Sunfire has more than enough power to handle the 15's and runs very cool even after hrs of use. I have experimented between the Current and Voltage source outputs and also with Biwiring and have not heard much of a difference. The Sunfire is a great amp, but one day I would like to do an A/B comaprison with the Emo XPA-5 to see how it stacks up to the Sunfire. :)

Where in NJ are you? I'm in 07407. If we are close enough you could come by and listen to both the sunfire and Xpa-5 head to head, or I'll be more than happy to bring the Emo to you, for a head to head on your system. An afternoon of checking out different equiptment.......sounds like fun.



Jim D

[jimmydep]

H9, I would never dispute your opinions, in fact I find them intriguing. I've only had the opportunity to hear the LSI's with 3 different amps, I haven't had the pleasure of hearing any of the amps you mentioned, but I'll try to get my hands on one and do an A-B-C-D comparison.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with a Nubie, I know what sounds good to me, but I haven't had the exposure to many different types or brands of equipment as you old timers have, so until I hear for myself I have to respect your opinions.



Jimmy D

[heiney9]

Jimmy, just keep in mind they are all opinion's and while I tend to come on strong sometimes it's because I have a passion for this hobby and music in general. Everyone's input is important, but I get especially irritated with people who have very little experience in this hobby claiming the "widget" they currently own is the best thing ever. I've been in this hobby 25 years and I still learn new things on a regular basis.

So just keep that in perspective, also there is nothing like being able to hear the gear in your room, with your rig and your favorite music, etc.

Whenever I consider someone's opinion, I always find out what there background is and what all their experiences are.

Thanks for kind words.

H9

[sTiLlLeArNiNg]

I'm not saying that the xpa5 is the best thing since sliced bread but for it's price and the fact that it is designed for MULTI channel listening i think it does fairly well in 2ch, IMHO and in my particular "setup" anyways.... :o

I would be VERY interested to have a listen to a pair xpa1's or an xpa2 as i think they would be MUCH better suited for 2ch listening ;)


I highly encourage you to find some Polkies in your general area and meet up for socializing and getting your ears on as much different gear as possible.

I think this is a great idea and DEFINATELY a good way to find thing's that would work best without going broke buying and testing everything yourself :)Anyone in the GTA want to get together somewhere, sometime drop me a line! :D

[Bernal]

Heard the best judge.
A friend lent me a EMO XPA-5 FIVE CHANNEL AUDIO POWER AMPLIFIER 200 watts RMS x 5 into 8 ohms | 350 watts RMS x 5 into 4 ohms
Listen first "XPA-5" and then SUNFIRE "CINEMA GRAND 200 ~ five" in LSi15.
In my towers LSi15; in my room, Sunfire better to my ear:D.
Heard the best judge
I hear the EMO "XPA-5 FIVE CHANNEL AUDIO POWER AMPLIFIER 200 watts RMS x 5 into 8 ohms | 350 watts RMS x 5 into 4 ohms" IN THE ROOM OF MY FRIEND, with its towers, and I say sounds great:)

[Barefoot]

Like others have said, the Sunfire would be more than enough to drive the LSi's even to the most demanding of levels. FWIW I'd rather own 1 Sunfire than two Emotivas.

[cfrizz]

Come on guys. There is no need to turn this into a pissin match. BOTH amps are capable of giving the LSI's what they need to operate to their full potential.

The rest is simply up to each individuals own hearing capabilities.

This constant bashing against Emotiva vs whoever is beyond old. GROW UP & MOVE ON PLEASE!

[Barefoot]

sorry didn't mean anything by it other than the fact that I prefer the Sunfire over the Emotiva, even with LSi's. In retrospect I could have worded my previous post differently.

[Bernal]

Sunfire Cinema Grand Five Channels + Lsi15:
Q. - Bi-Wiring? Thoughts
Q. - Bi-Amping?Thoughts

[nooshinjohn]

I would lean towards the bi-amped setup...

[TNRabbit]

Biwiring is a waste of time/money/effort IMO. Bi amping WILL give you increased headroom and can clear up the upper range considerably. There are several other things to consider as well: active/passive, if active, phase relationships, etc.

[Bernal]

Biwiring is a waste of time/money/effort IMO. Bi amping WILL give you increased headroom and can clear up the upper range considerably. There are several other things to consider as well: active/passive, if active, phase relationships, etc.


Thanks for your reply.
¿Can you explain to understand: "...Active/passive, if active, phase relationships, etc."?

[love2listen]

Where in NJ are you? I'm in 07407. If we are close enough you could come by and listen to both the sunfire and Xpa-5 head to head, or I'll be more than happy to bring the Emo to you, for a head to head on your system. An afternoon of checking out different equiptment.......sounds like fun.



Jim D

Jim,
I am in 08812, which is not too far from you. Your suggestion of an afternoon of checking out different equiptment sounds good to me. We will have to work on the logistics to see what works best. If you wish, send me a PM, letting me know what days work for you and hopefully we can make it happen. Tnx for your kind offer! :)

Carlos

[TNRabbit]

Thanks for your reply.
¿Can you explain to understand: "...Active/passive, if active, phase relationships, etc."?'

Passive biamping would be simply connecting separate amps to either the upper/lower range (horizontal biamping) or a separate amp in each speaker, one channel driving the upper range and one driving the lower range (I personally recommend this one). In active biamping, you need to remove the internal speaker crossovers & use an active (preamplified) crossover to separate the frequencies. Many passive crossovers have phase adjustments to keep all the drivers in phase, so while removing them from signal path frees up some power, you need to know a lot about the makeup of the original crossovers in order to make everything work properly. Active biamping is MUCH more complicated, but the potential rewards can be greater.

[reeltrouble1]

Enjoy your sunfire, you seem to be having alot of fun lately Bernal---Rock On..

RT1

[sucks2beme]

Gee, nobody mentions Outlaw anymore? a 7500 would be a good choice.

I don't think biamping in a 5.1 setup is worth the effort. A good quality
amp is going to get the job done just fine. The Sunfire is certainly going to
to provide plenty of power and has a good track record of being dependable.
The extra hassle of cabling it all out and expense pretty much means you'd
be better off spending your money on the better quality amps, source,
and good cables.

[Bernal]

Enjoy your sunfire, you seem to be having alot of fun lately Bernal---Rock On..

RT1
Thanks for your reply.
:)Sunfire!!!

[Bernal]

Gee, nobody mentions Outlaw anymore? a 7500 would be a good choice.

I don't think biamping in a 5.1 setup is worth the effort. A good quality
amp is going to get the job done just fine. The Sunfire is certainly going to
to provide plenty of power and has a good track record of being dependable.
The extra hassle of cabling it all out and expense pretty much means you'd
be better off spending your money on the better quality amps, source,
and good cables.

Hi,
What is OutLaw?:confused:
You can indicate a link.

[sTiLlLeArNiNg]

http://www.outlawaudio.com/

[Bernal]

http://www.outlawaudio.com/

Thanks for your reply.:)

[Bernal]

Hi
Q.- Where is a chronological list of manufacturing models Sunfire?
Q.- What is the date of manufacture of "Cinema Grand 200 ~ five"; see image in question No. 1?

[cfrizz]

Look on Sunfires website for the answers.

[Bernal]

Look on Sunfires website for the answers.

Thanks for your reply.
Search in: www.sunfire.com - http://www.sunfire.com/downloads_archive.asp, but found the model ("Cinema Grand 200 ~ five"; see image in question No. 1).

[chrisfromalbany]

whats price you can buy a sunfire for?

[megasat16]

Bernal, you can call SunFire and ask them for answers of your Q1. if that's important for you.

[love2listen]

If I recall correctly, the first 4-5 digits tell you the month and year that the unit was manufactured. Hope this helps.

[cfrizz]

whats price you can buy a sunfire for?

Check out www.audiogon.com for prices.

[Bernal]

If I recall correctly, the first 4-5 digits tell you the month and year that the unit was manufactured. Hope this helps.

Thanks for your reply.
Verificare on the amplifier.:)

[Bernal]

Finish my stereo system under the following configuration:

✓ DENON AVR-4308Ci: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH/2.1 CH A/V
✓ SUNFIRE Cinema Grand 200 ~ five - Bob Carver's
✓ OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio
✓ POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT
✓ POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT
✓ VELODYNE OPTIMUN 12

Denon + Oppo + Sunfire = give me a good combination of sound ..

Q.- I like to hear your opinion?