Room treatments [Archive]

concealer404

10-20-2009, 04:14 PM

Where do you all buy your room treatments? I'm in desperate need of some, but i also don't really have the budget to drop a ton of money on them, either.

I probably need 4 decent size panels to start. Pretty patterns or colors for optimum SOAF is a plus. :p

ben62670

10-20-2009, 04:18 PM

Build them!

thsmith

10-20-2009, 04:35 PM

I bought my OC 705 from these guys http://www.spi-co.com/directory.html

Local to you is

Insulation/Architectural
5230 Park Emerson Drive Suite O
Indianapolis, IN
USA

Wife made the covers. Made L bracket for bottom and loop near the top in the back for one of those fish hook looking hooks you push in the wall.

See my setup for pics.

vc69

10-20-2009, 04:36 PM

I'm ordering some panels from these guys in a few days.

http://www.atsacoustics.com/

ben62670

10-20-2009, 04:38 PM

Room treatments are so under rated. Look into first reflection, and then behind you.

Ben

thsmith

10-20-2009, 04:41 PM

I'm ordering some panels from these guys in a few days.

http://www.atsacoustics.com/

Those are nice but for 1 2'x4' 2" you could buy 3 from the site above. If you or your SO is handy with a sewing machine you can make your own to match your decor.

concealer404

10-20-2009, 04:48 PM

vc69

10-20-2009, 04:49 PM

Room treatments are so under rated. Look into first reflection, and then behind you.

Ben

No doubt. After some dinking around I did last weekend, I am convinced that the 6 panels I am buying (about $300) will be the most significant upgrade to my system I can make.

vc69

10-20-2009, 04:54 PM

Those are nice but for 1 2'x4' 2" you could buy 3 from the site above. If you or your SO is handy with a sewing machine you can make your own to match your decor.

My current SO is a danger to herself and others with regard to sharp objects, etc. :o

Thanks for the pointer though, I'm going to take a look at their offerings.

Zeros

10-20-2009, 04:57 PM

Hrmmm.... What did she use for the covers?

I may give them a call, that's right down the road from me.

Thanks!

Take a look at this thread on AVS about making panels:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=487747

Most people cover them in GOM (Gilford of Maine) fabric.

thsmith

10-20-2009, 05:02 PM

Hrmmm.... What did she use for the covers?

I may give them a call, that's right down the road from me.

Thanks!

Fabric from Hancocks. Just make sure you can easily blow threw the fabric. You do not want anything heavy like burlap.

concealer404

10-20-2009, 05:05 PM

Fabric from Hancocks. Just make sure you can easily blow threw the fabric. You do not want anything heavy like burlap.

I'll probably want a total of four 2x4 panels. I apologize for asking dumb questions, but i can't call them until tomorrow, stuck at work at the moment.

How much did yours end up costing and how many/what sizes did you do?

This idea has been in the back of my head for awhile, but after Nik's visit on Saturday, i realized just how bad this room sounds. It's AWFUL, and neither of us could believe that my system even sounded as good as it does in this room.

Sooo... room treatments > DAC at the moment. :)

thsmith

10-20-2009, 05:19 PM

The Owens Corning 703s were about $10 and the 705s were about $12 from what I remember. I used 705 2"x2'x4'

I used 5 panels. I could use more but I have a huge fireplace that is basically a wall and I was not allowed to treat it.

It did help.

concealer404

10-20-2009, 05:26 PM

CoolJazz

10-20-2009, 05:45 PM

Owens Corning 705 is about as good as it gets for absorbing! Standing it off from the wall does increase it's effectiveness...as in going lower. The best treatment is for it to be very broad and not all centered at one narrow frequency band.

I built using 2" 705 in 2' X 4' frames that I stood off another 2" from the wall. I found them to be very effective! I put the first pair a little to the side from in line behind the speakers (dipolar). Then centered the next one on the front wall...which seems to have a great impact. Then I put the next pair on the side walls. Then the last one (I've got made so far) directly behind the listening position.

It is some of the best money you can spend!! Good luck!

CoolJazz

concealer404

10-20-2009, 05:53 PM

I was planning on putting one behind each main, probably slightly towards the inside of both of them, and then two right up next to each other, essentially making a 4x4 behind the listening position.

I only have one side wall, and it's unfortunately a sliding glass door, so i can't do much about that. :(

thsmith

10-20-2009, 05:56 PM

Oh nice! Looks like i can easily do this for a good chunk under $100 when all is said and done, and this way i can actually put them together in the apartment without making a mess. :)

Thank you sir!

The covers are a little tricky. I used plastic corner trim cut to fit the width for the corners. MY wife tried a zipper across the top but ultimately machine sewed 3 sides, slip the panel in and hand sewed the top. Mine sit 1" from the wall but as someone said more is better.

Used hot glue to hold the corners on. You could try it without it but I was afraid the insulation would break down on the corners fitting it into the the bag.

concealer404

10-20-2009, 05:59 PM

The covers are a little tricky. I used plastic corner trim cut to fit the width for the corners. MY wife tried a zipper across the top but ultimately machine sewed 3 sides, slip the panel in and hand sewed the top. Mine sit 1" from the wall but as someone said more is better.

Used hot glue to hold the corners on. You could try it without it but I was afraid the insulation would break down on the corners fitting it into the the bag.

Hrmmm... i'm having a hard time visualizing this. I think i'll pop down there this weekend and get the panels ordered, and then i'll probably bug you from there, if that's alright with you?

thsmith

10-20-2009, 06:07 PM

Hrmmm... i'm having a hard time visualizing this. I think i'll pop down there this weekend and get the panels ordered, and then i'll probably bug you from there, if that's alright with you?

No problem. Here is a tutorial

http://www.readyacoustics.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=40&chapter=0

Go to Bagging your traps

RJMELKON

10-21-2009, 11:33 AM

room treatments are goo

RJMELKON

10-21-2009, 11:34 AM

they are very good

RJMELKON

10-21-2009, 11:34 AM

so very good really

RJMELKON

10-21-2009, 11:35 AM

sometimes it can be good

RJMELKON

10-21-2009, 11:35 AM

but not so much goo

vc69

10-21-2009, 11:36 AM

Wonder what is going to be offered FS ^^^

RJMELKON

10-21-2009, 11:37 AM

sorry guys trying to get post count up so i can post an ad for my lsi's.I will move on

concealer404

10-21-2009, 12:06 PM

Bad form. Been watching you spam up threads all morning.

TouchOfEvil

10-21-2009, 08:00 PM

I really need to get some treatments but i have been told NO lol.

hockeyboy

10-21-2009, 08:06 PM

I started with a pair of them from ATS. I have no energy to build my own anything. I got the fire proof ones, and have since added several more pairs over the last couple of years. I have ten in my theater which is great with no big expense at any given time. The biggest impact was when I put them where the wall meets the ceiling. Highly recommended and ATS is a good value if you don't want to DIY.

nikolas812

10-22-2009, 01:23 PM

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65330

Best room and system I ever had..
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65567

Nik

concealer404

10-22-2009, 01:33 PM

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65330

Best room and system I ever had..
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65567

Nik

Yep, i checked your threads out... but that level of DIY isn't really possible in my apartment setting. :(

RichCanDo

10-25-2009, 10:06 PM

I agree with building your own as is much cheaper and you can build specifically only for problem frequencies. At a library you can find books with info on building traps, etc. for specific frequencies.

concealer404

11-03-2009, 05:01 PM

Alright... due to budget constraints, i'm going to do something else.

Still going to make room treatments, but i'm going to try something that was suggested to me by a home theater designer/builder that i picked some cables up from on Friday.

The project will take place this weekend, it'll be plenty apartment friendly, needing only panels, cloth, staples, and push pins.

If i hear a big difference like i did in his room, great! If not, i'm only out about $30 for the whole project. :D

I doubt it'll be to the level of what some of you have done, but i'm more than confident that i'll see an improvement. Wish me luck!

ShinAce

11-03-2009, 05:16 PM

You will hear a difference. Sound absorption is no joke.

Placement of the panels is almost as important as placing the speakers, so take your time and experiment once you have the finished panels.

concealer404

11-03-2009, 05:19 PM

Yep! I'm going to be making 8-10 panels, and moving them around until i like what i hear.

The tip i got was just to try Lowe's insulation panels, and cover them with a fairly low-thread count fabric of my choice. They aren't as thick as would be ideal, but i figure they should be well worth the money. This guy's room was dead as a doornail, and i'd be happy with only a 50% reduction in echo/nastiness. The experiment will be worth the $30 even if it doesn't work. :)

mshan242700

11-03-2009, 05:28 PM

http://www.gikacoustics.com/products.html

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=327056

concealer404

11-03-2009, 05:32 PM

^Thanks for links, i think i already had the anandtech one saved, but i saved the other, just in case i feel like these don't do enough down the road. :)

nikolas812

11-03-2009, 06:00 PM

concealer404

11-03-2009, 06:01 PM

I'm pretty sure you want a fabric you see through when held up to the light. Or at least be able to blow threw... Pretty much something the same consistency of speaker grill fabric... At least thats what was needed for my panels...

Nik

Yeah, that's what he suggested as well. The girlfriend is having a ball right now going through JoAnn Fabric's website picking out "pretty patterns."

I figure if i'm going to hang squares everywhere, may as well keep her happy with it somehow. :p

On the flip side, if i let her dictate ALL my stereo purchases, i'd be running full Emotiva gear, because it's "pretty."

ShinAce

11-04-2009, 03:20 PM

Polyester seems to be a good choice.

CoolJazz

11-04-2009, 07:20 PM

Polyester seems to be a good choice.

Especially if you listen to a lot of 70's music!! :D :D :D

polkanddie

11-05-2009, 02:13 AM

fossy

11-05-2009, 09:05 AM

I seem to remember a really good post about room treatments not to long ago....search, my fellow polkie, search can be a very good friend

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86154&highlight=room+treatments

Im sure there are more .. but that's the one I remember

Face

11-05-2009, 09:27 AM

How recent are the pictures in your showcase?

Before adding any treatments, get those silly stacked subs out from between your speakers and pull your speakers away from the back wall.

concealer404

11-05-2009, 10:39 AM

How recent are the pictures in your showcase?

Before adding any treatments, get those silly stacked subs out from between your speakers and pull your speakers away from the back wall.

I thought i updated that, my bad.

The subs are gone, speakers are farther out, but now there's a tv and tv stand between them, but it's behind the front line of the speakers.

I guess i need to update that further tonite, too.

I got the materials, but then the girlfriend got engrossed in Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones, so i couldn't do a whole lot last night. I'll hopefully finish and mount them tonite while she's at work.

polkanddie

11-09-2009, 06:27 PM

Im so glad I saw this thread and read up on panel making, I found the pieces of OC in the barn. Very random cuts so I dont think my first panels are going to be the ideal 2x4, But I have a couple 18"x36" pieces. I also found a guy on CL selling some superthin polyester and china silk that matches the couch. I was going to just get some grill cloth but its 7.50 a sq yd at creative acoustics here in raleigh. Just for you guys making any speakers or panels out there I found some silver grill cloth on clearence at mcm electronics at $1.25 for a 36"x60" piece. Anyways I just leaned a couple peices up against the wall and it made a noticeable difference, I cant wait to put these together and mount them. I just want to thank concealer for posting this thread. Otherwise I would not have even thought about this until much later on. :)

nduitch

11-12-2009, 01:28 AM

DIY panels are in my future, I dont want to be evicted you know... Can someone post pics of placement of these, I want to have at least 4 in my room. I think I have some 703 in storage if I remember correctly...

Panels are will not going to stop you from being evicted. Just as much sound is still going to leak out of your apartment into your neighbors apartment. The only thing you can do to help that is to have concrete walls between you and your neighbor.

polkanddie

11-12-2009, 09:09 AM

Uh-oh. I guess I better turn it down a bit then...Thanks for the heads up.

concealer404

11-12-2009, 10:30 AM

Mine didn't do much... but i've also only got four 2'x4' panels up right now, and i think i need to try again with better materials. Oh well. Learning process.

Hawkeye

11-12-2009, 12:05 PM

I've found that room treatments have been by far, the best use of audio dollars, bar none. Better than wires, isolation or coloring my CDs green.

I have six in my room right now and if the better half would agree, there would be six more at least.

Gordon

SCompRacer

11-12-2009, 12:42 PM

.....i think i need to try again with better materials.

What material did you use? The last get together we had at my place, I began to remove room treatments while the music was playing. Two attendees treated their rooms the following month. It will be well worth your effort.

concealer404

11-12-2009, 01:08 PM

What material did you use? The last get together we had at my place, I began to remove room treatments while the music was playing. Two attendees treated their rooms the following month. It will be well worth your effort.

The guy that i bought the Scarlet Vipers from actually used foam insulation panels, and his room was ridiculously dead.

I tried the same thing, and it made a difference, just not real big yet. I'm sure part of it is because of the material i used, and also that i need more panels, and my room is annoying, to say the least.

I'll revisit this after the holidays and spend some more money on it and see where we stand. This was more of a test run to see if i could hear any difference at all, and to experiment with placement (which i still have to do some more.)

I still have an echo when doing the "clap test" but it does seem to have subdued some. Voices don't have an echo anymore, so i'll take that as an improvement.

LessisNevermore

11-12-2009, 03:50 PM

What kind of foam was used? If you're talking about the pink foam sheathing board, it's more reflective than absorptive. Even acoustic foam is fairly narrow in bandwidth absorption. If you're looking for something equal to OC 703/705, look into Rockwool. ATS has it priced substantially lower than the fiberglass panels. It's fairly easy to work with, I thought it might be less itchy to work with, but boy, was I wrong. DO wear long sleeves!:D Buy an inexpensive bread knife to do any trimming. Don't use one out of the kitchen, you'll dull the piss out of it! (ask me how I know..) LOL

concealer404

11-12-2009, 03:53 PM

Crap, you're talking greek to me again....

OC 703/705? What's that.... :(

polkanddie

11-12-2009, 04:06 PM

Owens corning, its a brand of insulation. 703 is what is most recommended, or so Ive read...pretty expensive imo. but also worth it in the end. The boards i had laying around in storage were 1.5" thick. I recommend 2" or more. Double layering if you need to. What Im experimenting with right now is 2"soft foam insulation backed with a type of dynamat material and so far it seems to work pretty well. Hopefully it will turn out well when combined with the fiberglass panels. Im debating doing some experiments with rockwool. Gotta look at the costs though... on a budget. lol

concealer404

11-12-2009, 04:08 PM

LessisNevermore

11-12-2009, 04:11 PM

Crap, you're talking greek to me again....

OC 703/705? What's that.... :(

Owens-Corning rigid fiberglass panels. 703 and 705, they have slightly different absorption frequency bandwidth. IIRC, 703 absorbs better in the lower bass regions. Rockwool/Roxul/mineral wool is a cheaper substitute, with the same acoustical properties.

SCompRacer

11-12-2009, 04:20 PM

An Absorption Coefficients chart.

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

Also many links to DIY sites.

SCompRacer

11-12-2009, 04:23 PM

So i could in theory just cover it and put it up on the wall without building a frame.

Yes. A frame makes it a bit more durable and easier to hang without tearing/sagging.

concealer404

11-12-2009, 04:25 PM

Perfect! I really appreciate it. Down come my silly useless panels and i'll order a case of Roxul tomorrow and try again. :)

beardog03

11-12-2009, 04:48 PM

I use the piles of dirty laundry in my office !!

works well until wash day !!

I am glad you posted this thread...
I will revisit it once i get my office / 2ch room back to where it is supposed to be

treatments make a huge difference......and you all have given me some useful ideas

Thanks !!

TECHNOKID

11-12-2009, 07:23 PM

I use the piles of dirty laundry in my office !!

works well until wash day !!
ROTFLMAO :D Use some air wick and just buy new clothes, case closed ;)
I am glad you posted this thread...
I will revisit it once i get my office / 2ch room back to where it is supposed to be

treatments make a huge difference......and you all have given me some useful ideas

Thanks !!Same here, your post is very beneficial, I've been dragging on room threathment looking for economical but efficient way to do so without falling in the expensive marketting trap.

Cheers!
TK

GV#27

11-12-2009, 10:57 PM

Face

11-12-2009, 11:08 PM

I've been dragging on room threathment looking for economical but efficient way to do so without falling in the expensive marketting trap.

Cheers!
TK:confused:

Room treatments are the best bang for the buck out there.

TECHNOKID

11-13-2009, 04:49 PM

If your room corners are available for treatment that is a prime location for dealing with low frequency room modes.Custom building some triangular corner traps (ala Super chunks) and placing them directly in the corners should prove benificial.
Size matters so the greater the thickness and width of the absortion material(fiberglass or mineral wool)the greater effectiveness it will have at lower frequencies.I built these easily and cheaply for use in the corners of my room. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84121&highlight=corner+trapsGreat GV thanks! This is just what I've needed, most of what I look at looks so hugly and disguise/ruined a room good looks/design. This will look much better than most designs I've seen so far :cool: Which is best, fiberglass or mineral?

:confused:

Room treatments are the best bang for the buck out there.Fully agreed however, what is typically offered on the market is often overpriced and home made (when you know what you are doing evidently) is more rewarding, least expensive and that always satifies the cheap old brick that I am :D. By the way, soundproofing is even worse at gouging but is also mandatory in many cases so, if one has low priced but efficient DIY idea I'll gladly take the advices too ;)

Cheers!
TK

KASR

11-13-2009, 06:02 PM

http://www.angelfire.com/sports/RCcars/acoustic_panels.htm

Have fun!

TECHNOKID

11-13-2009, 06:18 PM

http://www.angelfire.com/sports/RCcars/acoustic_panels.htm

Have fun!I've noticed he used peg board instead of plywood, I wonder what the benefit would be (if any)?

nikolas812

11-13-2009, 06:25 PM

Disregard that, i'm dumb. Forgot that the 703/705 was rigid.

So i could in theory just cover it and put it up on the wall without building a frame. Not ideal, i know, but building a frame is out of the question for the moment. :(

I think i'll give that a shot later this month. Bonus check wooo!!

Mine are made with OC 703. There two inches thick and with a four inch frame spaces the Insulation another two inches from the wall which aides in absorbing high frequency's..

Your more than welcome to come down and pick mine up if you want to play with them before you spend any more money... I hate to say it. But you might find that your room might not be taimable... Thats a crazy ass room you've got..

Nik

concealer404

11-13-2009, 06:28 PM

Mine are made with OC 703. There two inches thick and with a four inch frame spaces the Insulation another two inches from the wall which aides in absorbing high frequency's..

Your more than welcome to come down and pick mine up if you want to play with them before you spend any more money... I hate to say it. But you might find that your room might not be taimable... Thats a crazy ass room you've got..

Nik

We'll see.... but you're going to need them when you get these Monitor 7s outta here. :)

GV#27

11-13-2009, 06:57 PM

Which is best, fiberglass or mineral?

Either one will do the job nicely but OC703/705 being rigid will be easier to work with when cutting the triangular pieces.However being as you are in Canada you may by default have to use mineral wool as it might be difficult or impossible to find the OC product.I used the ROXUL brand mineral wool which is readily available and inexpensive.I'll reinterate that the more damping material you can get into the corners the greater the benifits at low frequencies.

GV#27

11-13-2009, 07:07 PM

I've noticed he used peg board instead of plywood, I wonder what the benefit would be (if any)?The holes in the peg board will allow some sound to pass through so if there is an air space between the panel and wall as shown in the link,it will increase the absortion at lower frequencies some.
I built similar panels to those in the link for my first reflection points but left most of the back open,only a narrow strip of peg board was used on either side to keep the mineral wool in place.Unlike the corner traps using only 2" thickness of absorbtion material is sufficient for panels at the first reflection points.