Watt the hell

[hastalavista]

Hi all,

Have a pair of RTi a9's and Rti a7's with CSi6 center and 2 PW505's.

How many watts is just too much (figured I would start with the subjective part). And I Really dont want to blow no windows out, but maybe just enough to piss the neigbors off.:cool: I see so many amps and have had a ton of suggestions from you all but no one has really stated what these speakers will do with the right wattage. Lets see..........weve got the 1&2 channel amps that push what I normally see is 50-250 watts per channel. Then the 3,4,5 channels that push 50-500 watts per channel. So what do I need just to get the ears bleeding and awaken the neigbors and any given time of day? Oh and I guess some models will allow you to hook up a powered sub, right?

On another note we have all the different brands. Some being high end like MCINTOSH and others, well ADCOM. So will I get more power from a 150w MCINTOSH than I will say a 300w ADCOM?

Next there are the pro amps that seem to be for disco's. Which must not be for the HT lovers due to the lack of proffessional HT reviews, but much smaller in size, weight, and class (A&B, D):confused:

So how does a person or future audiophile sort all this out? Which I can answer this one: They come to the experts.

Can some one please help me sort this out in one section or does it take a whole forum. Just what Ive read today has been an experience but you all tend to go in tangents and it throws me off. Such as the tread KARMA #3.:)
Kinda of a blind side when your looking for usefull information and get side tracked.lol.

Hopefully someone can put this in perspective

Thanks

[sk1939]

Hi all,

Have a pair of RTi a9's and Rti a7's with CSi6 center and 2 PW505's.

How many watts is just too much (figured I would start with the subjective part). And I Really dont want to blow no windows out, but maybe just enough to piss the neigbors off.:cool: I see so many amps and have had a ton of suggestions from you all but no one has really stated what these speakers will do with the right wattage. Lets see..........weve got the 1&2 channel amps that push what I normally see is 50-250 watts per channel. Then the 3,4,5 channels that push 50-500 watts per channel. So what do I need just to get the ears bleeding and awaken the neigbors and any given time of day? Oh and I guess some models will allow you to hook up a powered sub, right?

On another note we have all the different brands. Some being high end like MCINTOSH and others, well ADCOM. So will I get more power from a 150w MCINTOSH than I will say a 300w ADCOM?

Next there are the pro amps that seem to be for disco's. Which must not be for the HT lovers due to the lack of proffessional HT reviews, but much smaller in size, weight, and class (A&B, D):confused:

So how does a person or future audiophile sort all this out? Which I can answer this one: They come to the experts.

Can some one please help me sort this out in one section or does it take a whole forum. Just what Ive read today has been an experience but you all tend to go in tangents and it throws me off. Such as the tread KARMA #3.:)
Kinda of a blind side when your looking for usefull information and get side tracked.lol.

Hopefully someone can put this in perspective

Thanks

Well, the biggest difference is quality, power and cost.

For sheer power, nothing beats a professional power amp, it doesn't have the cleanest signal, but even the cheapest pro amp with have no problem driving electrostatic speakers (but this doesn't always means that it sounds the best, although depending on your ear it may be fine); and they also are rugged and built to last. The power amps from Krell, McIntosh, Adcom are more focused on performance and sound quality than sheer power unlike a pro amp where loudness and volume matter, and due to the R&D and components, tend to cost significantly more. Some manufactures under rate their amps, so while a 150W McIntosh might not have the power of a 300W AdCom, it might come close, it all depends, as there are really no generics, each amp being different.

There's no reason you couldn't be happy with a $200 QSC or Crown power amp powering your setup, although the THD ratings aren't the greatest, it may work just fine for you. I've known people who use Crown pro amps who are on a budget to power Marc Levinson electrostatics, so try what works for you.

[hastalavista]

Well, the biggest difference is quality, power and cost.

For sheer power, nothing beats a professional power amp, it doesn't have the cleanest signal, but even the cheapest pro amp with have no problem driving electrostatic speakers (but this doesn't always means that it sounds the best, although depending on your ear it may be fine); and they also are rugged and built to last. The power amps from Krell, McIntosh, Adcom are more focused on performance and sound quality than sheer power unlike a pro amp where loudness and volume matter, and due to the R&D and components, tend to cost significantly more. Some manufactures under rate their amps, so while a 150W McIntosh might not have the power of a 300W AdCom, it might come close, it all depends, as there are really no generics, each amp being different.

There's no reason you couldn't be happy with a $200 QSC or Crown power amp powering your setup, although the THD ratings aren't the greatest, it may work just fine for you. I've known people who use Crown pro amps who are on a budget to power Marc Levinson electrostatics, so try what works for you.

Thx sk1939, What should be an exceptable range of wattage for these speakers ive listed using the crown amp. Ive heard good things about them. The recommended power for rtia9 is 20-500 watts, rtia7 20- 300 watts.

[F1nut]

So how does a person or future audiophile sort all this out? Which I can answer this one: They come to the experts.



There is no one fits all answer as there is no one fits all gear. Budgets often define what one can buy, so what's yours?

[sk1939]

Thx sk1939, What should be an exceptable range of wattage for these speakers ive listed using the crown amp. Ive heard good things about them. The recommended power for rtia9 is 20-500 watts, rtia7 20- 300 watts.

He's right, what kind of money are you willing to spend?

The Crown XLS 402D is rated at 300W@8Ohms and 450W@4Ohms and can be had for about $340.

At the same time, a McIntosh MC2002 rated at 200W @ 8 ohms and 300@ 4 ohms will cost you $1300.

[hastalavista]

He's right, what kind of money are you willing to spend?

The Crown XLS 402D is rated at 300W@8Ohms and 450W@4Ohms and can be had for about $340.

At the same time, a McIntosh MC2002 rated at 200W @ 8 ohms and 300@ 4 ohms will cost you $1300.

Would like to spend under 1500.oo for a good amp. Emotiva 5 channel may be my best bet. But 200 watts. Where will that get me..

[sk1939]

Would like to spend under 1500.oo for a good amp. Emotiva 5 channel may be my best bet. But 200 watts. Where will that get me..

Emotiva makes decent amps, especially for new entry level. At 200WPC it should be enough, but really, you really want to focus on a 2 channel amp for the front, which draw the most power, rather than the surrounds.

[Hawkeye]

You can NEVER have too much power! YOU control it with volume knob. And hopefully, since you mention the EMO, this does not turn into a mess.

You will receive 100 different suggestions for an amplifier or any other piece of gear. And it can be confusing for a beginner. My advice too you is this: If you think the EMO is a good place to start, buy it. Some folks don't care for it, some do. You are the only one you have to make happy. If you buy it, enjoy it, learn what it can or can't do. Then as your experience grows, you may branch off to other makes in that search for the perfect sound. What you like today, you may not like tomorrow.

The biggest hurdle is making a decision to buy. Something. It is the only way your going to know what sounds right or not to you.

Gordon

[vtx1800n1]

Maybe this will help with your decision, if you haven't already made it.

I have an old Yamaha DSP-A3090. This was Yamaha's flagship receiver back in 1997 when I bought it. It drives 80W / channel into the mains at a very low THD. A few years ago I got a Yamaha MX-1000 2 channel amp. If anyone knows anything about this, they know it's a monster. WAY over-engineered, it is 1000W @ 1 Ohm stable. It will drive 260 W per channel at 8 Ohm with very low THD.

Just for comparison purposes, I used the pre-outs on the 3090 for the left channel, ran them through the MX, and then out to my left channel speaker (RTi-12). The right channel I left alone- straight from the 3090 80W amp to the right RTi-12. I was expecting a significant volume difference as I cranked it (never went past 1/3 volume, as it is pretty damn loud with a PSW-505 handling the LFE out). However, there was no volume or sound quality difference at all from left/right. I turned all sound field processing off and played several CDs and still there was no volume or sound quality difference between the different amps. That's 260W on the left, and 80W on the right. It goes to show how well Yamaha amps are balanced, and that until you get to ear-bleeding levels, you don't need massive power, just GOOD power.

The moral of the story is that you should go for quality first. No, I wouldn't try powering these speakers with a 20W amp, but even 80W is more than enough. I'm probably going to sell my CX-1000 and MX-1000 sometime in the future and use the funds to upgrade the 3090 to something new from Yamaha- at least a RX-V863 and maybe the RX-V3900.

[nooshinjohn]

The moral of the story is that you should go for quality first. No, I wouldn't try powering these speakers with a 20W amp, but even 80W is more than enough. I'm probably going to sell my CX-1000 and MX-1000 sometime in the future and use the funds to upgrade the 3090 to something new from Yamaha- at least a RX-V863 and maybe the RX-V3900.

Do not go chasing the 863... coming from what you have, you will be greatly dissapointed. I ran the 861 for a while but it just did not sound as good as my RX-v2090 (made in 1995)did.

[CoolJazz]

Just for comparison purposes, I used the pre-outs on the 3090 for the left channel, ran them through the MX, and then out to my left channel speaker (RTi-12). The right channel I left alone- straight from the 3090 80W amp to the right RTi-12. I was expecting a significant volume difference as I cranked it (never went past 1/3 volume, as it is pretty damn loud with a PSW-505 handling the LFE out). However, there was no volume or sound quality difference at all from left/right. I turned all sound field processing off and played several CDs and still there was no volume or sound quality difference between the different amps. That's 260W on the left, and 80W on the right.
The main thing this test showed you was that the db gain on the two different amps were the same. That's different that the watts available. If the gain on the high power amp happened to be lower, then that amp could have had a lower level despite having a total higher power capability!! Greater power capability makes no diff if you don't have any need to ask for it. Greater power doesn't automatically mean better sound quality.

CoolJazz

[cfrizz]

I for one do not believe in putting the front speakers above all else. ALL speakers enjoy the benefits of power. If you enjoy movies & music then your system will benefit from all the speakers being amped.

How much power is used is all based on what your speakers need. They will only take what is necessary at any given time to perform to their full potential. Therefore, it is important that they have all the power they need to perform to their full potential.

It is also important to recalibrate all speakers after adding an amplifier so that everything is even.